Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 The jiva is given identity from the soul of God, god takes a bit of his/her soul and imbues it with individuality, or how Bhaktisiddhanta describes it "an adultered portion of divinity". this is why bhedabheda is in effect, we are made of god's soul, therefore we exist as a shared consciousness. it's not that jivas have always existed, for a jiva to exist ,God has to adulter a portion of him/herself, and imbue that portion with self awareness. since we are made up of a portion of the eternal we therefore can be considered without beginning, but in fact our individuality had to be adultered from the One eternal consciousness/infinite reality. to say that there is only Hari is only partially correct, the vedic scriptures do this all the time,all shastra ,all verses do not give the full story in every verse, it is a step by step process. I think therefore i am, Am I existing everywhere ? No, Is Hari existing everywhere ? yes Therefore I am not Hari,therefore everything is not Hari in full. Since we exist as part of Hari, we are therefore partially Hari, since Hari also has an existence beyond our limited one, we are not the same as Hari. therefore we are comprised of Hari and are one with Hari,also Hari has many aspects of existence that we do not partakle of therfore we are unique from Hari, Hari is all, we are not. Therefore to say there is only Hari is partially correct, there is Hari and there is ourselves, bhedabheda, all is Hari, and there is part of Hari that is different then Hari, not all powerfull, not omnipresent, and limited by our nature,whereas Hari is unlimited. This should be obvious, if you take the vedas as all in all, and your concept includes illogical conclusion, like there is only Hari, when we know we exist and we are not Hari, then you have to rethink your interpretation of the vedic literature to make it come out logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Jai Ramji Ki! Dear Friends: I cannot accept that the Jivaatman ever was altered in any way. In the SBG, Sri Krishna says that the Jivaatman is eternal and has always remained changeless. He always refers to the Jivaatman in the singular and in the 13th chapter explains the multiplicity of Jivaatman as the One Jivatman present in the bodies as if divided, that is, it is not truly divided. Sri Krishna's Saamkhya differs from the Saamkhya kaarikaa in this respect. Any comments? Regards, Dhruba. "sssshiva2002" <sssshiva2002 wrote: origin and nature of jiva Excerpts: The jiva is given identity from the soul of God, god takes a bit of his/her soul and imbues it with individuality, or how Bhaktisiddhanta describes it "an adultered portion of divinity". It's not that jivas have always existed, for a jiva to exist ,God has to adulter a portion of him/herself, and imbue that portion with self awareness. since we are made up of a portion of the eternal we therefore can be considered without beginning, but in fact our individuality had to be adultered from the One eternal consciousness/infinite reality. Since we exist as part of Hari, we are therefore partially Hari, since Hari also has an existence beyond our limited one, we are not the same as Hari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 it is not the jivatma that was altered, Bhagavan adulterates a portion of himself, taking a portion of cognizant energy,Param Atma, and imbues with it's own sense of self. In that sense we have a connection to non beginningness, Param Atma is infinite and eternal ,without beginning nor end, that is the dual nature of reality. We have a different nature then Param Atma, while we are made up of the same substance as Param Atma, cognizant energy, we exist due to the manipulation by Param Atma of his own being. So we are changeless, that doesn't mean that Krsna didn't have to bring us into existence, since our conception and for eternity we remain the same. , Dhurba wrote: > Jai Ramji Ki! > > Dear Friends: > > I cannot accept that the Jivaatman ever was altered in any way. In the SBG, Sri Krishna says that the Jivaatman is eternal and has always remained changeless. He always refers to the Jivaatman in the singular and in the 13th chapter explains the multiplicity of Jivaatman as the One Jivatman present in the bodies as if divided, that is, it is not truly divided. Sri Krishna's Saamkhya differs from the Saamkhya kaarikaa in this respect. > > Any comments? > > Regards, > > Dhruba. > > > "sssshiva2002" <sssshiva2002> wrote: > origin and nature of jiva > > Excerpts: > The jiva is given identity from the soul of God, god takes a bit of his/her soul and imbues it with individuality, or how Bhaktisiddhanta describes it "an adultered portion of divinity". > > It's not that jivas have always existed, for a jiva to exist ,God has to adulter a portion of him/herself, and imbue that portion with self awareness. > > since we are made up of a portion of the eternal we therefore can be considered without beginning, but in fact our individuality had to be adultered from the One eternal consciousness/infinite reality. > > Since we exist as part of Hari, we are therefore partially Hari, since Hari also has an existence beyond our limited one, we are not the same as Hari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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