Guest guest Posted August 29, 2000 Report Share Posted August 29, 2000 Anthanarik wrote: "The correct view is that Arya was orginally a racial term (circa 1500 BCE) is latter it was used in a non-racial context. Sources abound (Jan Puhvel and Georges Dumezil are the most prominent IE analyists). " NO! We do NOT accept them as authority. Our authority is Bhagavad-Gita, Mahabharata and the acaryas. If Mr Georges and Jan are most prominent according to *your particular standards* thats --nothing to do with us. We have not even heard of them---and do not care---because we have authentic authorities which the whole wide world has heard of . If you want to compare prominence just ask around: Mahabharata, Bhagavad-gita and Srila Prabhupada the foremost acarya of the bonafide VEDIC parampara. Now lets discuss: Bhagavad-Gita was prominent even well before Mr George and Jans *birth*. Notice the term used anarya--persons who do not know the value of life. Anarya is opposite of Aryans. Here is clearly talking about not the *race*but of qualities that make an Aryan---which iis what as Srila Prabhupada says:The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. Bhagavad-Gita AS IT IS Translation by HIS DIVINE GRACE A C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA 2.2 T Contents of the Gita Summarized sri-bhagavan uvaca kutas tva kasmalam idam visame samupasthitam anarya-justam asvargyam akirti-karam arjuna SYNONYMS sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; kutah--wherefrom; tva--unto you; kasmalam--dirtiness; idam--this lamentation; visame--in this hour of crisis; samupasthitam--arrived; anarya--persons who do not know the value of life; justam--practiced by; asvargyam--that which does not lead to higher planets; akirti--infamy; karam--the cause of; arjuna--O Arjuna. TRANSLATION The Supreme Person [bhagavan] said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to infamy. PURPORT Krsna and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore Lord Krsna is referred to as "Bhagavan" throughout the Gita. Bhagavan is the ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely Brahman or the impersonal all-pervasive spirit; Paramatma, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of all living entities; and Bhagavan, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam this conception of the Absolute Truth is explained thus: vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan." (Bhag. 1.2.11) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who studies the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine--its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature--may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramatma feature of the Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Therefore, the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who have realized the Bhagavan feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmost transcendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study of the Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The sunshine, the sun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated from one another, and yet the students of the three different phases are not in the same category. The Sanskrit word bhagavan is explained by the great authority, Parasara Muni, the father of Vyasadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses all riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation is called Bhagavan. There are many persons who are very rich, very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very much detached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all strength, etc., entirely. Only Krsna can claim this because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahma, Lord Siva, or Narayana, can possess opulences as fully as Krsna. Therefore it is concluded in the Brahma-samhita by Lord Brahma himself that Lord Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the primeval Lord, or Bhagavan, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of all causes. isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam "There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavan, but Krsna is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme Person, and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primeval Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes." (Brahma-samhita 5.1) In the Bhagavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described as the original Personality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and Personalities of Godhead expand: ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge "All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith are either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the Supreme Godhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." (Bhag. 1.3.28) Therefore, Krsna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Absolute Truth, the source of both the Supersoul and the impersonal Brahman. In the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna's lamentation for his kinsmen is certainly unbecoming, and therefore Krsna expressed His surprise with the word kutas, "wherefrom." Such unmanly sentiments were never expected from a person belonging to the civilized class of men known as Aryans. The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. Although Arjuna was a ksatriya, he was deviating from his prescribed duties by declining to fight. This act of cowardice is described as befitting the non-Aryans. Such deviation from duty does not help one in the progress of spiritual life, nor does it even give one the opportunity to become famous in this world. Lord Krsna did not approve of the so-called compassion of Arjuna for his kinsmen. ys mahesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2000 Report Share Posted August 30, 2000 Hello Mahesh Raja, That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. This is the Vedic Culture E-group though. Anthanarik - Mahesh Raja vediculture ; Anthanarik Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:04 PM Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term Anthanarik wrote:"The correct view is that Arya was orginally a racial term (circa 1500BCE) is latter it was used in a non-racial context.Sources abound (Jan Puhvel and Georges Dumezil are the most prominentIE analyists). "NO! We do NOT accept them as authority. Our authority is Bhagavad-Gita,Mahabharata and the acaryas.If Mr Georges and Jan are most prominent according to *your particularstandards* thats --nothing to do with us.We have not even heard of them---and do not care---because we have authenticauthorities which the whole wide world hasheard of . If you want to compare prominence just ask around: Mahabharata,Bhagavad-gita and Srila Prabhupada the foremost acarya of the bonafide VEDICparampara.Now lets discuss:Bhagavad-Gita was prominent even well before Mr George and Jans *birth*.Notice the term used anarya--persons who do not know the value of life.Anarya is opposite of Aryans. Here is clearly talking about not the*race*but of qualities that make an Aryan---which iis what as SrilaPrabhupada says:The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the valueof life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons whoare led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of lifeis realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they arecaptivated by the external features of the material world, and thereforethey do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge ofliberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans.Bhagavad-Gita AS IT ISTranslation by HIS DIVINE GRACE A C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA2.2 T Contents of the Gita Summarized sri-bhagavan uvaca kutas tva kasmalam idam visame samupasthitam anarya-justam asvargyam akirti-karam arjuna SYNONYMS sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said;kutah--wherefrom; tva--unto you; kasmalam--dirtiness; idam--thislamentation; visame--in this hour of crisis; samupasthitam--arrived;anarya--persons who do not know the value of life; justam--practiced by;asvargyam--that which does not lead to higher planets; akirti--infamy;karam--the cause of; arjuna--O Arjuna. TRANSLATION The Supreme Person [bhagavan] said: My dear Arjuna, how have theseimpurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows theprogressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but toinfamy. PURPORT Krsna and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. ThereforeLord Krsna is referred to as "Bhagavan" throughout the Gita. Bhagavan is theultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phasesof understanding, namely Brahman or the impersonal all-pervasive spirit;Paramatma, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of allliving entities; and Bhagavan, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, LordKrsna. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam this conception of the Absolute Truth isexplained thus: vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by theknower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases ofthe Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan."(Bhag. 1.2.11) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example ofthe sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, thesun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who studies the sunshine onlyis the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is furtheradvanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinarystudents who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine--itsuniversal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonalnature--may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature ofthe Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know thesun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramatma feature of theAbsolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sunplanet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the SupremeAbsolute Truth. Therefore, the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who haverealized the Bhagavan feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmosttranscendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study ofthe Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The sunshine, thesun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated fromone another, and yet the students of the three different phases are not inthe same category. The Sanskrit word bhagavan is explained by the great authority, ParasaraMuni, the father of Vyasadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses allriches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and allrenunciation is called Bhagavan. There are many persons who are very rich,very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very muchdetached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all strength,etc., entirely. Only Krsna can claim this because He is the SupremePersonality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahma, Lord Siva, orNarayana, can possess opulences as fully as Krsna. Therefore it is concludedin the Brahma-samhita by Lord Brahma himself that Lord Krsna is the SupremePersonality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the primevalLord, or Bhagavan, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of allcauses. isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam "There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavan, butKrsna is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme Person,and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primevalLord Govinda and the cause of all causes." (Brahma-samhita 5.1) In the Bhagavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of theSupreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described as the originalPersonality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and Personalitiesof Godhead expand: ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge "All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith areeither plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the SupremeGodhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." (Bhag.1.3.28) Therefore, Krsna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, theAbsolute Truth, the source of both the Supersoul and the impersonal Brahman. In the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna'slamentation for his kinsmen is certainly unbecoming, and therefore Krsnaexpressed His surprise with the word kutas, "wherefrom." Such unmanlysentiments were never expected from a person belonging to the civilizedclass of men known as Aryans. The word Aryan is applicable to persons whoknow the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritualrealization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do notknow that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, orBhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the materialworld, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who haveno knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans.Although Arjuna was a ksatriya, he was deviating from his prescribed dutiesby declining to fight. This act of cowardice is described as befitting thenon-Aryans. Such deviation from duty does not help one in the progress ofspiritual life, nor does it even give one the opportunity to become famousin this world. Lord Krsna did not approve of the so-called compassion ofArjuna for his kinsmen.ys maheshThis is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2000 Report Share Posted August 31, 2000 Anthanarik wrote: Hello Mahesh Raja, That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. This is the Vedic Culture E-group though. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hare Krishna! Anthanarik correction!--we do NOT follow *your* imaganitive "vedic authority" of Mr George and Jan--sorry!--yes--- This is still Vedic E-group though--because mahajano yena gatah sa panthah--we follow Srila Prabhupada *the mahajana* , we follow Mahabharata, Bhagavad-gita mahajanas----NOT --your-- Mr George and Jans concocted imaginations ---bye bye. Caitanya Caritamrta Translation by HIS DIVINE GRACE A C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA Madhya 17.186 T The Lord Travels to Vrndavana tarko 'pratisthah srutayo vibhinna nasav rsir yasya matam na bhinnam dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah SYNONYMS tarkah--dry argument; apratisthah--not fixed; srutayah--Vedas; vibhinnah--possessing different departments; na--not; asau--that; rsih--great sage; yasya--whose; matam--opinion; na--not; bhinnam--separate; dharmasya--of religious principles; tattvam--truth; nihitam--placed; guhayam--in the heart of a realized person; maha-janah--self-realized predecessors; yena--by which way; gatah--acted; sah--that; panthah--the pure unadulterated path. TRANSLATION Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu continued," 'Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid truth of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated self-realized person. Consequently, as the sastras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the mahajanas advocate.'" PURPORT This is a verse spoken by Yudhisthira Maharaja in the Mahabharata, Vana-parva (313.117). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2000 Report Share Posted September 1, 2000 Hello Mahesh Raja, >That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. I THINK ONE MUST OPEN THEIR CLOSE MINDS AND STUDY THE VEDAS TO REALIZE AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE ONE MAKES ANY REJECTION. ARYA WORD IS NOT OF WESTERN ORIGION, THEREFORE WESTRN CANNOT MAKE THE WRITE INTERPRETATION, IT IS LIKE MAKING KHICHADI WITHOUT PROPER PERSPECTIVES. ONE SHOULD READ RAMAYAN OF VALMIKI WHICH WAS WRITTEN EVEN BEFORE THSE WESTRN SCHOLARS WERE BORN. VALMIKI AND MAHABHART GIVES DEFINITION OF ARYA. THE DISTORTION BY WESTRN SCHOLARS WAS INTENTIONQLLY INTRODUCED . THE HISTORY OF INDIA IS ALIVILG TESTEMONY. PLEASE READ AND LEARN DO NOT REMAIN BEHIND AND LOST IN MISPERCEPTIONS. I HAVE DEALT IN DETAIL IN MY BOOK HINDU CENTUM,PUBLISHED THIS YEAR. SINCERELY, DEEN B.CHANDORA. SEPT.1,2000 >"Anthanarik" <anthanaric >vediculture ><vediculture > >Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term >Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:39:29 -0600 > > > >Hello Mahesh Raja, >That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. This is the >Vedic Culture E-group though. > >Anthanarik > - > Mahesh Raja > vediculture ; Anthanarik > Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:04 PM > Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term > > > > > My Groups | vediculture Main Page | Start a new group! > > > Anthanarik wrote: > "The correct view is that Arya was orginally a racial term (circa 1500 > BCE) is latter it was used in a non-racial context. > Sources abound (Jan Puhvel and Georges Dumezil are the most prominent > IE analyists). " > > > NO! We do NOT accept them as authority. Our authority is >Bhagavad-Gita, > Mahabharata and the acaryas. > If Mr Georges and Jan are most prominent according to *your particular > standards* thats --nothing to do with us. > We have not even heard of them---and do not care---because we have >authentic > authorities which the whole wide world has > heard of . If you want to compare prominence just ask around: >Mahabharata, > Bhagavad-gita and Srila Prabhupada the foremost acarya of the bonafide >VEDIC > parampara. > > Now lets discuss: > Bhagavad-Gita was prominent even well before Mr George and Jans >*birth*. > Notice the term used anarya--persons who do not know the value of life. > Anarya is opposite of Aryans. Here is clearly talking about not the > *race*but of qualities that make an Aryan---which iis what as Srila > Prabhupada says:The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the >value > of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. Persons >who > are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of >life > is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are > captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore > they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of > liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. > > > Bhagavad-Gita AS IT IS > Translation by HIS DIVINE GRACE A C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA > 2.2 T Contents of the Gita Summarized > sri-bhagavan uvaca > kutas tva kasmalam idam > visame samupasthitam > anarya-justam asvargyam > akirti-karam arjuna > SYNONYMS > sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; > kutah--wherefrom; tva--unto you; kasmalam--dirtiness; idam--this > lamentation; visame--in this hour of crisis; samupasthitam--arrived; > anarya--persons who do not know the value of life; justam--practiced by; > asvargyam--that which does not lead to higher planets; akirti--infamy; > karam--the cause of; arjuna--O Arjuna. > TRANSLATION > The Supreme Person [bhagavan] said: My dear Arjuna, how have these > impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows >the > progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to > infamy. > PURPORT > Krsna and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore > Lord Krsna is referred to as "Bhagavan" throughout the Gita. Bhagavan is >the > ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three >phases > of understanding, namely Brahman or the impersonal all-pervasive spirit; > Paramatma, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of >all > living entities; and Bhagavan, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, >Lord > Krsna. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam this conception of the Absolute Truth is > explained thus: > vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam > brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate > "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by >the > knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases >of > the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan." > (Bhag. 1.2.11) These three divine aspects can be explained by the >example of > the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, >the > sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who studies the sunshine >only > is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is >further > advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. >Ordinary > students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine--its > universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal > nature--may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman >feature of > the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know >the > sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramatma feature of the > Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the sun > planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the >Supreme > Absolute Truth. Therefore, the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who >have > realized the Bhagavan feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmost > transcendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study >of > the Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The sunshine, >the > sun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated >from > one another, and yet the students of the three different phases are not >in > the same category. > The Sanskrit word bhagavan is explained by the great authority, >Parasara > Muni, the father of Vyasadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses all > riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all > renunciation is called Bhagavan. There are many persons who are very >rich, > very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very much > detached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all >strength, > etc., entirely. Only Krsna can claim this because He is the Supreme > Personality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahma, Lord Siva, >or > Narayana, can possess opulences as fully as Krsna. Therefore it is >concluded > in the Brahma-samhita by Lord Brahma himself that Lord Krsna is the >Supreme > Personality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the >primeval > Lord, or Bhagavan, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of all > causes. > isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah > anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam > "There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavan, >but > Krsna is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme >Person, > and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the primeval > Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes." (Brahma-samhita 5.1) > In the Bhagavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of the > Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described as the original > Personality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and >Personalities > of Godhead expand: > ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam > indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge > "All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith are > either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the >Supreme > Godhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." >(Bhag. > 1.3.28) > Therefore, Krsna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the > Absolute Truth, the source of both the Supersoul and the impersonal >Brahman. > In the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna's > lamentation for his kinsmen is certainly unbecoming, and therefore Krsna > expressed His surprise with the word kutas, "wherefrom." Such unmanly > sentiments were never expected from a person belonging to the civilized > class of men known as Aryans. The word Aryan is applicable to persons >who > know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual > realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do >not > know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, >or > Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the >material > world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who >have > no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. > Although Arjuna was a ksatriya, he was deviating from his prescribed >duties > by declining to fight. This act of cowardice is described as befitting >the > non-Aryans. Such deviation from duty does not help one in the progress >of > spiritual life, nor does it even give one the opportunity to become >famous > in this world. Lord Krsna did not approve of the so-called compassion of > Arjuna for his kinsmen. > > > ys mahesh > > > > > This is an information resource and discussion group for people >interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its >historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, >Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. > > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2000 Report Share Posted September 4, 2000 Namaste, COMMOMENTS ON SHRI MAHESH RAJA'S STATEMENTS; ACCORDIND TO YOU BHAGWAT GITA IS THE MOST AUTHENTIC BOOK, THIS IS AN EXCELLENT THOUGHT. IF YOU HAVE READ IT, AND CONTEMPLATED OVER IT DEEPLY AND THOUGHT OVER, BHAGWAT GITA KEEPS REFFERING VEDAS. THUS BASIS OF IT'S BASICS IS VEDAS. BHAGAT GITA NARRETS THE ELEMENTARY TEACHINGS OF VEDA IN A SIMPLE SANSKRIT FORMAT, SO THAT ANY COMMON PERSON WITH A ZEAL TO UNDERSTAND CAN EASYLY LEARN. SINCERELY, DEEN B.CHANDORA, MD SEPT.3, 2000 >"deen chandora" <deenbc >vediculture >vediculture >Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term >Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:45:54 EDT > >Hello Mahesh Raja, > >That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. > >I THINK ONE MUST OPEN THEIR CLOSE MINDS AND STUDY THE VEDAS TO REALIZE AND >UNDERSTAND BEFORE ONE MAKES ANY REJECTION. ARYA WORD IS NOT OF WESTERN >ORIGION, THEREFORE WESTRN CANNOT MAKE THE WRITE INTERPRETATION, IT IS LIKE >MAKING KHICHADI WITHOUT PROPER PERSPECTIVES. ONE SHOULD READ RAMAYAN OF >VALMIKI WHICH WAS WRITTEN EVEN BEFORE THSE WESTRN SCHOLARS WERE BORN. >VALMIKI AND MAHABHART GIVES DEFINITION OF ARYA. THE DISTORTION BY WESTRN >SCHOLARS WAS INTENTIONQLLY INTRODUCED . THE HISTORY OF INDIA IS ALIVILG >TESTEMONY. PLEASE READ AND LEARN DO NOT REMAIN BEHIND AND LOST IN >MISPERCEPTIONS. >I HAVE DEALT IN DETAIL IN MY BOOK HINDU CENTUM,PUBLISHED THIS YEAR. >SINCERELY, >DEEN B.CHANDORA. > >SEPT.1,2000 > > >"Anthanarik" <anthanaric > >vediculture > ><vediculture > > >Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term > >Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:39:29 -0600 > > > > > > > >Hello Mahesh Raja, > >That's fine if you don't accept the authority of the Vedas. This is the > >Vedic Culture E-group though. > > > >Anthanarik > > - > > Mahesh Raja > > vediculture ; Anthanarik > > Tuesday, August 29, 2000 2:04 PM > > Re: [world-vedic] Re: Arya Is NOT a Racial Term > > > > > > > > > > My Groups | vediculture Main Page | Start a new group! > > > > > > Anthanarik wrote: > > "The correct view is that Arya was orginally a racial term (circa 1500 > > BCE) is latter it was used in a non-racial context. > > Sources abound (Jan Puhvel and Georges Dumezil are the most prominent > > IE analyists). " > > > > > > NO! We do NOT accept them as authority. Our authority is > >Bhagavad-Gita, > > Mahabharata and the acaryas. > > If Mr Georges and Jan are most prominent according to *your >particular > > standards* thats --nothing to do with us. > > We have not even heard of them---and do not care---because we have > >authentic > > authorities which the whole wide world has > > heard of . If you want to compare prominence just ask around: > >Mahabharata, > > Bhagavad-gita and Srila Prabhupada the foremost acarya of the bonafide > >VEDIC > > parampara. > > > > Now lets discuss: > > Bhagavad-Gita was prominent even well before Mr George and Jans > >*birth*. > > Notice the term used anarya--persons who do not know the value of >life. > > Anarya is opposite of Aryans. Here is clearly talking about not the > > *race*but of qualities that make an Aryan---which iis what as Srila > > Prabhupada says:The word Aryan is applicable to persons who know the > >value > > of life and have a civilization based on spiritual realization. >Persons > >who > > are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of > >life > > is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, or Bhagavan, and they are > > captivated by the external features of the material world, and >therefore > > they do not know what liberation is. Persons who have no knowledge of > > liberation from material bondage are called non-Aryans. > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita AS IT IS > > Translation by HIS DIVINE GRACE A C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA > > 2.2 T Contents of the Gita Summarized > > sri-bhagavan uvaca > > kutas tva kasmalam idam > > visame samupasthitam > > anarya-justam asvargyam > > akirti-karam arjuna > > SYNONYMS > > sri-bhagavan uvaca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; > > kutah--wherefrom; tva--unto you; kasmalam--dirtiness; idam--this > > lamentation; visame--in this hour of crisis; samupasthitam--arrived; > > anarya--persons who do not know the value of life; justam--practiced >by; > > asvargyam--that which does not lead to higher planets; akirti--infamy; > > karam--the cause of; arjuna--O Arjuna. > > TRANSLATION > > The Supreme Person [bhagavan] said: My dear Arjuna, how have these > > impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who >knows > >the > > progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to > > infamy. > > PURPORT > > Krsna and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. >Therefore > > Lord Krsna is referred to as "Bhagavan" throughout the Gita. Bhagavan >is > >the > > ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three > >phases > > of understanding, namely Brahman or the impersonal all-pervasive >spirit; > > Paramatma, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of > >all > > living entities; and Bhagavan, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, > >Lord > > Krsna. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam this conception of the Absolute Truth >is > > explained thus: > > vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam > > brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate > > "The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by > >the > > knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such >phases > >of > > the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan." > > (Bhag. 1.2.11) These three divine aspects can be explained by the > >example of > > the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, > >the > > sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who studies the sunshine > >only > > is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is > >further > > advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. > >Ordinary > > students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine--its > > universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal > > nature--may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman > >feature of > > the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can >know > >the > > sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramatma feature of >the > > Absolute Truth. And the student who can enter into the heart of the >sun > > planet is compared to those who realize the personal features of the > >Supreme > > Absolute Truth. Therefore, the bhaktas, or the transcendentalists who > >have > > realized the Bhagavan feature of the Absolute Truth, are the topmost > > transcendentalists, although all students who are engaged in the study > >of > > the Absolute Truth are engaged in the same subject matter. The >sunshine, > >the > > sun disc and the inner affairs of the sun planet cannot be separated > >from > > one another, and yet the students of the three different phases are >not > >in > > the same category. > > The Sanskrit word bhagavan is explained by the great authority, > >Parasara > > Muni, the father of Vyasadeva. The Supreme Personality who possesses >all > > riches, all strength, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all > > renunciation is called Bhagavan. There are many persons who are very > >rich, > > very powerful, very beautiful, very famous, very learned, and very >much > > detached, but no one can claim that he possesses all riches, all > >strength, > > etc., entirely. Only Krsna can claim this because He is the Supreme > > Personality of Godhead. No living entity, including Brahma, Lord Siva, > >or > > Narayana, can possess opulences as fully as Krsna. Therefore it is > >concluded > > in the Brahma-samhita by Lord Brahma himself that Lord Krsna is the > >Supreme > > Personality of Godhead. No one is equal to or above Him. He is the > >primeval > > Lord, or Bhagavan, known as Govinda, and He is the supreme cause of >all > > causes. > > isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah > > anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam > > "There are many personalities possessing the qualities of Bhagavan, > >but > > Krsna is the supreme because none can excel Him. He is the Supreme > >Person, > > and His body is eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. He is the >primeval > > Lord Govinda and the cause of all causes." (Brahma-samhita 5.1) > > In the Bhagavatam also there is a list of many incarnations of the > > Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described as the original > > Personality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and > >Personalities > > of Godhead expand: > > ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam > > indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge > > "All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith >are > > either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the > >Supreme > > Godhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." > >(Bhag. > > 1.3.28) > > Therefore, Krsna is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, >the > > Absolute Truth, the source of both the Supersoul and the impersonal > >Brahman. > > In the presence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna's > > lamentation for his kinsmen is certainly unbecoming, and therefore >Krsna > > expressed His surprise with the word kutas, "wherefrom." Such unmanly > > sentiments were never expected from a person belonging to the >civilized > > class of men known as Aryans. The word Aryan is applicable to persons > >who > > know the value of life and have a civilization based on spiritual > > realization. Persons who are led by the material conception of life do > >not > > know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu, > >or > > Bhagavan, and they are captivated by the external features of the > >material > > world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is. Persons who > >have > > no knowledge of liberation from material bondage are called >non-Aryans. > > Although Arjuna was a ksatriya, he was deviating from his prescribed > >duties > > by declining to fight. This act of cowardice is described as befitting > >the > > non-Aryans. Such deviation from duty does not help one in the progress > >of > > spiritual life, nor does it even give one the opportunity to become > >famous > > in this world. Lord Krsna did not approve of the so-called compassion >of > > Arjuna for his kinsmen. > > > > > > ys mahesh > > > > > > > > > > This is an information resource and discussion group for people > >interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its > >historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about >India, > >Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. > > > > > > > >_______________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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