Re:Hindu Chauvinism and Bigotry, Read and Believe.

[Guest guest]

Hindu Chauvinism and Bigotry, Read and Believe.

 

Hello Indira,

 

I know that the closed minded will never listen to reason nor truth,

but here it goes.

 

Here are some of the similarities between Germanic IE religion and

Arya Dharma.

 

 

1) Manu was the first human being and left the moral code to humans

called the Laws of Manu. Rig/Tuistus begot the first human being

Mannus (see Tacitus's Germania) and left the moral code to humans

(see Rigsthula, Rydberg's TM, and the The Rig Edda's Laws of Mannus.

 

2) There was a primordial being that was destroyed, for us it was

Ymir and for the Hindus it was the sacrifice of Purusha.

As Ymir engendered man and wife out of his hand, and a giant son

out of his foot, we are told by the Indian Manus, that Brahma

produced four families of men, namely from his mouth the first

brahman (priest), from his arm the first kshatriya (warrior), from

his thigh the first vizh (trader and husbandman), from his foot the

first sudra (servant and artisan). And so , no doubt, would the Eddic

tradition, were it more fully preserved, make a difference of rank

exist between the offspring of Ymir´s hand and those of his foot;

a

birth from the foot must mean a lower one. (Grimm, Jacob. Teutonic

Mythology, Vol II, p, 571)

 

A more significant anthropogony is contained in the Continental

Germanic myth reported by Tacitus (Germania, chap. 2), with an

earthborn (terra editus) proto-ancestor Tuisto, his son Mannus, and

Mannus's triple and multiple brood, the Ingaevones, Herminones, and

Istaevones. Tuisto means etymologically 'Twin', and Mannus

means "Man", and the three tribes in fact edenote the social class

divisions of ancient Germania, in a manner reiminscent of the

Scythian foundation legend discussed...Thus 'Twin spawned 'Man' (from

Proto-Germanic Yumiyaz) is also cogently etymologized as 'Twin'. But

whose twin, and why? For the answer we must look elsewhere.

An obviously parallel is found once again at the opposeite end

of the Indo-European continuum. Rig Veda 10.90 tells of the

promordial being Purusa 'Man' who was cut apart to make the world and

the class society of men, that of brahmins, ksatriyas, viasyas, and

sudras. Yet behind this figure lies that of the Vedic Yama ('Twin',

cognate with Ymir", the first man to die and colonize the Otherworld,

and of his brother Manu ('Man') who introduced sacrifice and

religious law. Yama has been fitted with a twin wife Yami, and Manu

likewise acquires a wife Manavi whom he is reputed to have

sacrificed. If we strip away the such heterosexual excrescences and

try to restore the original myth, in the protoversion Yama adn Manu

were primal twins and Yama was the sacrificaial victim essential

to the act of creation over which Manu presided . In other

words, 'Man' sacrificed his 'Twin'.

In both Germania and India we thus have two versions of the same

myth in bifurcated transmission, one invoving a primeval creature

called either 'Twin' or 'Man' and crudely butchered by "the gods" and

a tidier, more societal anthropogonic variety including layers of

speculative genealogy (origninally collaterally with twin brother,

secondarily diachronically with father and and son, as in the case of

Tuisto and Mannus, or entailing heterosexual duplication, as with

Yama and Manu). (Puhvel, Jann, Comparative Mythology, p. 285).

 

Twin and Brother pt. 2

The other version, preserved in Avesta (Yast 19) tells of

Yama´s

sinning and of his moral dismemberment by losing his triple royal

halo, which was reapportioned to the patrons of the social classes.

Yama himself was cut in two by his own brother and the latter´s

henchmen. Through all this one can still imperfectly glimpse the same

myth that was present in India and Germania.

A myth that is recoverable from India, Iran, and Germania might

well be sought also in the remaining mainstay of Indo-European

comparative mythology, ancient Rome....

Transposed to the mythic level of the Vedic Yama and Manu, or the

Germanic Tuisto and Mannus, Remus was thus the original Twin, and

Romulus was the Man. Remus had to die as part of the act of

creation., which let to the birth of the three Roman tribes (Ramnes,

Luceres, Tities) and the accession of Romulus to his role as first

king, who is the saga equivalent of the anthropogonic first man. The

seniority of Remus, Tuistio, and Yama to Romulus, Mannus, and Manu is

hierarchic rather than chronological, although it can be reprojected

into a father, son relationship, as with Tuisto and Mannus. The Twin

is senior to the Man because he goes into the cosmogonic inventory,

whereas Man stays behind to get history going. Remus, like Tuisto and

Yama, behind whom lurk Ymir and Purusa respectively, is what is

called in anthropology a dema figure, the type of being whose murder

ends sacred time and who occupies a crucial slot in many

cosmologies...

The reconstructed Indo-European creation myth of man and society

thus rests on the triple foundation of Yama and Manu in India, Tuisto

and Mannus in Germania, and Yemo(no)s in Rome. In back of these

pairs we spot the more primitive cosmogonic giants Purusa, Gayomart,

and Ymir...(Puhvel, Jann, Comparative Mythology, p. 286-290).

 

3) Indra is the thundergod, Thor is ours. Both have remarkable

similarities.

 

4) Twastri are the dwarve smithies who fashion the weapons of the

gods, we have dwarves who do the same (e.g. Volund/Weyland, Ivalde)

Tvashtri (Hinduism) (Tvastr), Skt., lit. "carpenter"; in the Rig veda

this divinity is the ideal artist, the divine artisan, the lord of

all skills. He sharpens and carries the great iron axe and fashioned

Indra's thunderbolt. (Encyclopedia of Eastern Philosophy and

Religion, Verlag, p. 389)

 

 

5) An important sacrifice for both religions was the horse

sacrifice.

 

6) Both have a divine transcendent drink the Soma for Vedism (a

plant) and us, the Mead. Soma was considered a god. I believe both

were used my mystics as a way to better know the nature of the

divine, and communicate with them.

 

7) Orlog and Dharma. Örlög ("Primal-layer") or Wyrd, is the

cosmic

web of cause and effect that is influenced by, and influences

everyone. Part of our Örlög is determined by the circumstances

of our

birth, our past lives, surroundings and so on. Örlög is not set

in

stone, for our choices in the moment are constantly modifying it. In

other words, what we do now and have done in the past affects what

happens to us in the future. This differs from the concept of "fate",

because it does not imply being utterly bound by a predetermined

future. Nevertheless, it does mean that we cannot escape the

consequences of our actions.**Dharma is similar to örlög and

the

further we go back until proto-asatru times (e.g. 1800 BCE) the more

the terms coalesced. When we think of örlög we generally think

of it

in its fist meaning, rita, cosmic law. Some Asatruar saw the

connection. For example, List used the term rita instead of

örlög.

Is there a more comprehensive ON word that would denote the word

dharma in its entirety? More likely, the ON word örlög once

had more

comprehensive connotations. Later the term, out of disuse, came to

mean rita in its more limited sense. Of course, the concept of

dharma has also changed. For one, Buddhism incorporated the term and

used the term in a different way (e.g. samara, nirvana).

 

8) Bot Early Vedic religion was focused on worship of fire and the

sun. Francis Owen, in his book The Germanic People, tries to relate

to us the proto-Asatru symbols in which we can infer their religious

beliefs:

The mixture of these two radically different forms of religious

beliefs (Asatru and Vanatru) can be traced in the use of relligous

symbols during the Bronze Age (800 BCE )....Typical symbols of a

religous nature are: a somple point with the radiating beams of the

sun, the indication of the four directions of the compass, either

with or without the sun circle, the sun-wheel, the sun caharioot, the

swastika, which is a development o the sun-wheel, the cross, the

radiating sun in many forms, the vault of heaven, the treee of life,

the symbol of the serpent, the spiral, the concentric circle, the

double headedaxe, the cup-stones and the cup-indentaions on the stone

axes which represent the sun symbol of the circle, the ... the

beautifully made pins and brooches with their sun-cicles and sun-

spirals, the spectacle brooches iwht their sun-circles, the sun-boat

pirctured on the raxzors, the horseshoe...........(pg.187)

 

There are two predominant gods in the Rig Veda Agni and Indra. Agni,

the cosmic fire god and the religious carving in Northern Europe as

illustrated

by Davidson's book "The Chariot of the Sun". Most of those "proto-

Asatru" carvings were either the sun-disk or the swastika. What god

did this

represent? There are three proto-germanic names of the gods Tiuz,

Wodanaz, and Thunraz. Indra and Thunraz match. Could Wodanaz and Tiuz

be dual aspects

of Agni? The former being transcendent and "mental" and the later

being cosmic law, ala Dharma. I don't buy the Dumezil approach that

equate Mitra

and Varuna equating them although at that time they took on an

ancient pre-socratic belief that the universe was not fire as

Hericlitus thought but

the universe is composed of water. In this instance, as Hinduism has

done ever since, a meshing of beliefs because Agni takes on these

cosmic qualities.

 

Here is article between the similarities between Celtic religion and

Arya Dharma.

http://www.hinduism-today.com/2000/2/#gen389

 

HISTORY

Our Druid Cousins

Meet the brahmins of ancient Europe, the high caste of Celtic society

By Peter Berresford Ellis

 

The Celtic people spread from their homeland in what is now Germany

across Europe in the first millennium bce. Iron tools and weapons

rendered them superior to their neighbors. They were also skilled

farmers, road builders, traders and inventors of a fast two-wheeled

chariot. They declined in the face of Roman, Germanic and Slavic

ascendency by the second centuries bce. Here Peter Berresford Ellis,

one of Europe's foremost experts of the Celts, explains how modern

research has revealed the amazing similarities between ancient Celt

and Vedic culture. The Celt's priestly caste, the Druids, has become

a part of modern folklore. Their identity is claimed by New Age

enthusiasts likely to appear at annual solstice gatherings around the

ancient megaliths of northwest Europe. While sincerely motivated by a

desire to resurrect Europe's ancient spiritual ways, Ellis says these

modern Druids draw more upon fanciful reconstructions of the 18th

century than actual scholarship.

 

The Druids of the ancient Celtic world have a startling kinship with

the brahmins of the Hindu religion and were, indeed, a parallel

development from their common Indo-European cultural root which began

to branch out probably five thousand years ago. It has been only in

recent decades that Celtic scholars have begun to reveal the full

extent of the parallels and cognates between ancient Celtic society

and Vedic culture.

 

The Druids were not simply a priesthood. They were the intellectual

caste of ancient Celtic society, incorporating all the professions:

judges, lawyers, medical doctors, ambassadors, historians and so

forth, just as does the brahmin caste. In fact, other names designate

the specific role of the "priests." Only Roman and later Christian

propaganda turned them into "shamans,wizards" and "magicians." The

scholars of the Greek Alexandrian school clearly described them as a

parallel caste to the brahmins of Vedic society.

 

The very name Druid is composed of two Celtic word roots which have

parallels in Sanskrit. Indeed, the root vid for knowledge, which also

emerges in the Sanskrit word Veda, demonstrates the similarity. The

Celtic root dru which means "immersion" also appears in Sanskrit. So

a Druid was one "immersed in knowledge."

 

Professor Calvert Watkins of Harvard, one of the leading linguistic

experts in his field, has pointed out that of all the Celtic

linguistic remains, Old Irish represents an extraordinarily archaic

and conservative tradition within the Indo-European family. Its

nominal and verbal systems are a far truer reflection of the

hypothesized parent tongue, from which all Indo-European languages

developed, than are Classical Greek or Latin. The structure of Old

Irish, says Professor Watkins, can be compared only with that of

Vedic Sanskrit or Hittite of the Old Kingdom.

 

The vocabulary is amazingly similar. The following are just a few

examples:

 

Old Irish - arya (freeman),Sanskrit - aire (noble)

Old Irish - naib (good), Sanskrit - noeib (holy)

Old Irish - badhira (deaf), Sanskrit - bodhar (deaf)

Old Irish - names (respect), Sanskrit - nemed (respect)

Old Irish - righ (king), Sanskrit - raja (king)

 

This applies not only in the field of linguistics but in law and

social custom, in mythology, in folk custom and in traditional

musical form. The ancient Irish law system, the Laws of the

Fénechus,

is closely parallel to the Laws of Manu. Many surviving Irish myths,

and some Welsh ones, show remarkable resemblances to the themes,

stories and even names in the sagas of the Indian Vedas.

 

Comparisons are almost endless. Among the ancient Celts, Danu was

regarded as the "Mother Goddess." The Irish Gods and Goddesses were

the Tuatha De Danaan ("Children of Danu"). Danu was the "divine

waters" falling from heaven and nurturing Bíle, the sacred oak

from

whose acorns their children sprang. Moreover, the waters of Danu went

on to create the great Celtic sacred river--Danuvius, today called

the Danube. Many European rivers bear the name of Danu--the Rhône

(ro-

Dhanu, "Great Danu") and several rivers called Don. Rivers were

sacred in the Celtic world, and places where votive offerings were

deposited and burials often conducted. The Thames, which flows

through London, still bears its Celtic name, from Tamesis, the dark

river, which is the same name as Tamesa, a tributary of the Ganges.

 

Not only is the story of Danu and the Danube a parallel to that of

Ganga and the Ganges but a Hindu Danu appears in the Vedic story "The

Churning of the Oceans," a story with parallels in Irish and Welsh

mytholgy. Danu in Sanskrit also means "divine waters" and "moisture."

 

In ancient Ireland, as in ancient Hindu society, there was a class of

poets who acted as charioteers to the warriors They were also their

intimates and friends. In Irish sagas these charioteers extolled the

prowess of the warriors. The Sanskrit Satapatha Brahmana says that on

the evening of the first day of the horse sacrifice (and horse

sacrifice was known in ancient Irish kingship rituals, recorded as

late as the 12th century) the poets had to chant a praise poem in

honor of the king or his warriors, usually extolling their genealogy

and deeds.

 

Such praise poems are found in the Rig Veda and are called narasamsi.

The earliest surviving poems in old Irish are also praise poems,

called fursundud, which trace back the genealogy of the kings of

Ireland to Golamh or Mile Easpain, whose sons landed in Ireland at

the end of the second millennium bce. When Amairgen, Golamh's son,

who later traditions hail as the "first Druid," set foot in Ireland,

he cried out an extraordinary incantation that could have come from

the Bhagavad Gita, subsuming all things into his being [see sidebar

right].

 

Celtic cosmology is a parallel to Vedic cosmology. Ancient Celtic

astrologers used a similar system based on twenty-seven lunar

mansions, called nakshatras in Vedic Sanskrit. Like the Hindu Soma,

King Ailill of Connacht, Ireland, had a circular palace constructed

with twenty-seven windows through which he could gaze on his twenty-

seven "star wives."

 

There survives the famous first century bce Celtic calendar (the

Coligny Calendar) which, as soon as it was first discovered in 1897,

was seen to have parallels to Vedic calendrical computations. In the

most recent study of it, Dr. Garret Olmsted, an astronomer as well as

Celtic scholar, points out the startling fact that while the

surviving calendar was manufactured in the first century bce,

astronomical calculus shows that it must have been computed in 1100

bce.

 

One fascinating parallel is that the ancient Irish and Hindus used

the name Budh for the planet Mercury. The stem budh appears in all

the Celtic languages, as it does in Sanskrit, as meaning "all

victorious,gift of

teaching,accomplished,enlightened,exalted" and so on. The

names of the famous Celtic queen Boudicca, of ancient Britain (1st

century ce), and of Jim Bowie (1796-1836), of the Texas Alamo fame,

contain the same root. Buddha is the past participle of the same

Sanskrit word--"one who is enlightened."

 

For Celtic scholars, the world of the Druids of reality is far more

revealing and exciting, and showing of the amazingly close common

bond with its sister Vedic culture, than the inventions of those who

have now taken on the mantle of modern "Druids," even when done so

with great sincerity.

 

If we are all truly wedded to living in harmony with one another,

with nature, and seeking to protect endangered species of animal and

plant life, let us remember that language and culture can also be in

ecological danger. The Celtic languages and cultures today stand on

the verge of extinction. That is no natural phenomenon but the result

of centuries of politically directed ethnocide. What price

a "spiritual awareness" with the ancient Celts when their culture is

in the process of being destroyed or reinvented? Far better we seek

to understand and preserve intact the Celt's ancient wisdom. In this,

Hindus may prove good allies.

 

The Song of Amairgen the Druid

I am the wind that blows across the sea; I am the wave of the ocean;

I am the murmur of the billows; I am the bull of the seven combats;

I am the vulture on the rock; I am a ray of the sun; I am the fairest

of flowers;

I am a wild boar in valor; I am a salmon in the pool; I am a lake on

the plain;

I am the skill of the craftsman; I am a word of science;

I am the spearpoint that gives battle;

I am the God who creates in the head of man the fire of thought.

Who is it that enlightens the assembly upon the mountain, if not I?

Who tells the ages of the moon, if not I?

Who shows the place where the sun goes to rest, if not I?

Who is the God that fashions enchantments--

The enchantment of battle and the wind of change?

 

Amairgen was the first Druid to arrive in Ireland. Ellis states, "In

this song Amairgen subsumes everything into his own being with a

philosophic outlook that parallels the declaration of Krishna in the

Hindu Bhagavad-Gita." It also is quite similar in style and content

to the more ancient Sri Rudra chant of the Yajur Veda.

 

Peter Berresford Ellis is one of the foremost living authorities on

the Celts and author of many books on the subject, including "Celt

and Roman,Celt and Greek,Dictionary of Celtic Mythology"

and "Celtic Women."

PETER BERRESFORD ELLIS, 30 GRESLEY ROAD, LONDON, N19 3JZ, ENGLAND

 

 

Is that enough? Probably not for chauvinists that need to take

another peoples culture to build themselves up.

 

Anthanarik