ExBeatle Harrison"Nothing Higher than Hare Krsna Mantra."

[Guest guest]

George Harrison Interview: Hare Krishna Mantra--There's Nothing

Higher

 

 

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This story URL: http://www.krishna.org/Articles/2000/08/00066.html

 

 

 

The Hare Krishna Mantra by George Harrison and London Radha-Krishna

Temple devotees was featured four times on England's most popular

television program, Top of the Pops, after rising to the Top 10

throughout England, Europe, and parts of Asia. George Harrison (08-20-

00)

 

If you open up your heart

You will know what I mean

We've been polluted so long

But here's a way for you to get clean

 

By chanting the names of the Lord and you'll be free

The Lord is awaiting on you all to awaken and see.

 

--"Awaiting On You All"

from the album All things Must Pass

 

In the summer of 1969, before the dissolution of the Beatles, the

most popular music group of all time, George Harrison produced a hit

single, "The Hare Krishna Mantra," performed by George and the

devotees of the London Radha-Krishna Temple. Soon after rising to the

Top 10 or Top 20 best-selling record charts throughout England,

Europe, and parts of Asia, the Hare Krishna chant became a household

word--especially in England, where the BBC had featured the Hare

Krishna Chanters, as they were then called, four times on the

country's most popular television program, Top of the Pops.

 

At about the same time, five thousand miles away, several shaven-

headed, saffron-robed men and sari-clad women sang along with John

Lennon and Yoko Ono as they recorded the hit song "Give Peace a

Chance" in their room at Montreal's Queen Elizabeth Hotel:

 

"John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan,

Tommy Cooper, Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Allen Ginsberg, Hare

Krishna, Hare Krishna. All we are saying is give peace a chance."

 

The Hare Krishna devotees had been visiting with the Lennons for

several days, discussing world peace and self-realization. Because of

this and other widespread exposure, people all over the world soon

began to identify the chanting Hare Krishna devotees as harbingers of

a more simple, joyful, peaceful way of life.

 

George Harrison was the impetus for the Beatles'spiritual quest of

the sixties, and today, nearly fifteen years later, the chanting of

the Hare Krishna maha-mantra--Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. Krishna

Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare--still

plays a key role in the former Beatle's life.

 

In this conversation, taped at George's home in England on September

4, 1982, George reveals some memorable experiences he has had

chanting Hare Krishna and describes in detail his deep personal

realizations about the chanting. He reveals what factors led him to

produce "The Hare Krishna Mantra" record, "My Sweet Lord," and the

LPs All Things Must Pass and Living in the Material World, which were

all influenced to a great extent by the Hare Krishna chanting and

philosophy. He speaks lovingly and openly about his association with

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya

(spiritual master) of the Hare Krishna movement. In the following

interview George speaks frankly about his personal philosophy

regarding the Hare Krishna movement, music, yoga, reincarnation,

karma, the soul, God, and Christianity. The conversation concludes

with his fond remembrances of a visit to the birthplace of Lord

Krishna in Vrndavana, India, home of the Hare Krishna mantra, and

with George discussing some of his celebrity friends' involvement

with the mantra now heard and chanted around the world.

 

Mukunda Goswami: Oftentimes you speak of yourself as a plainclothes

devotee, a closet yogi or "closet Krishna," and millions of people

all over the world have been introduced to the chanting by your

songs. But what about you? How did you first come in contact with

Krishna?

 

George Harrison: Through my visits to India. So by the time the Hare

Krishna movement first came to England in 1969, John and I had

already gotten ahold of Prabhupada's first album, Krishna

Consciousness.(SIDE A / SIDE B) We had played it a lot and liked it.

That was the first time I'd ever heard the chanting of the maha-

mantra.

 

Mukunda: Even though you and John Lennon played Srila Prabhupada's

record a lot and had chanted quite a bit on your own, you'd never

really met any of the devotees. Yet when Gurudasa, Syamasundara, and

I [the first Hare Krishna devotees sent from America, to open a

temple in London] first came to England, you co-signed the lease on

our first temple in central London, bought the Manoryoga-aSrama* for

us, which has provided a place for literally hundreds of thousands of

people to learn about Krishna consciousness, and financed the first

printing of the book Krishna. You hadn't really known us for a very

long time at all. Wasn't this a kind of sudden change for you?

 

George: Not really, for I always felt at home with Krishna. You see

it was already a part of me. I think it's something that's been with

me from my previous birth. Your coming to England and all that was

just like another piece of a jigsaw puzzle that was coming together

to make a complete picture. It had been slowly fitting together.

That's why I responded to you all the way I did when you first came

to London. Let's face it. If you're going to have to stand up and be

counted, I figured, "I would rather be with these guys than with

those other guys over there." It's like that. I mean I'd rather be

one of the devotees of God than one of the straight, so-called sane

or normal people who just don't understand that man is a spiritual

being, that he has a soul. And I felt comfortable with you all, too,

kind of like we'd known each other before. It was a pretty natural

thing, really.

 

Mukunda: George, you were a member of the Beatles, undoubtedly the

greatest single pop group in music hisiory, one that influenced not

only music, but whole generations of young people as well. After the

dissolution of the group, you went on to emerge as a solo superstar

with albums like All Things Must Pass, the country's top selling

album for seven weeks in a row, and its hit single "My Sweet Lord,"

which was number one in America for two months. That was followed by

Living in the Material World, number one on Billboard for five weeks

and a million-selling LP. One song on that album, "Give Me Love," was

a smash hit for six straight weeks. The concert for Bangladesh with

Ringo Starr, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Leon Russell, and Billy Preston

was a phenomenal success and, once the LP and concert film were

released, would become the single most successful rock benefit

project ever. So, you had material success. You'd been everywhere,

done everything, yet at the same time you were on a spiritual quest.

What was it that really got you started on your spiritual journey?

 

George: It wasn't until the experience of the sixties really hit. You

know, having been successful and meeting everybody we thought worth

meeting and finding out they weren't worth meeting, and having had

more hit records than everybody else and having done it bigger than

everybody else. It was like reaching the top of a wall and then

looking over and seeing that there's so much more on the other side.

So I felt it was part of my duty to say, "Oh, okay, maybe you are

thinking this is all you need-to be rich and famous--but actually it

isn't."

 

Mukunda: George, in your recently published autobiography, I, Me,

Mine, you said your song "Awaiting on You All" is about japa-yoga, or

chanting mantras on beads. You explained that a mantra is "mystical

energy encased in a sound structure," and that "each mantra contains

within its vibrations a certain power." But of all mantras, you

stated that "the maha-mantra [the Hare Krishna mantra] has been

prescribed as the easiest and surest way for attaining God

Realization in this present age." As a practitioner of japa-yoga,

what realizations have you experienced from chanting?

 

George: Prabhupada, acarya (spiritual master) of the Hare Krishna

movement, told me once that we should just keep chanting all the

time, or as much as possible. Once you do that, you realize the

benefit. The response that comes from chanting is in the form of

bliss, or spiritual happiness, which is a much higher taste than any

happiness found here in the material world. That's why I say that the

more you do it, the more you don't want to stop, because it feels so

nice and peaceful.

 

Mukunda: What is it about the mantra that brings about this feeling

of peace and happiness?

 

George: The word Hare is the word that calls upon the energy that's

around the Lord. If you say the mantra enough, you build up an

identification with God. God's all happiness, all bliss, and by

chanting His names we connect with Him. So it's really a process of

actually having a realization of God, which all becomes clear with

the expanded state of consciousness that develops when you chant.

Like I said in the introduction I wrote for Prabhupada's Krsna book

some years ago, "If there's a God, I want to see Him. It's pointless

to believe in something without proof, and Krishna consciousness and

meditation are methods where you can actually obtain God perception."

 

Mukunda: Is it an instantaneous process, or gradual?

 

George: You don't get it in five minutes. It's something that takes

time, but it works because it's a direct process of attaining God and

will help us to have pure consciousness and good perception that is

above the normal, everyday state of consciousness.

 

Mukunda: How do you feel after chanting for a long time?

 

George: In the life I lead, I find that I sometimes have

opportunities when I can really get going at it, and the more I do

it, I find the harder it is to stop, and I don't want to lose the

feeling it gives me.

 

For example, once I chanted the Hare Krishna mantra all the way from

France to Portugal, nonstop. I drove for about twenty-three hours and

chanted all the way. It gets you feeling a bit invincible. The funny

thing was that I didn't even know where I was going. I mean I had

bought a map, and I knew basically which way I was aiming, but I

couldn't speak French, Spanish, or Portuguese. But none of that

seemed to matter. You know, once you get chanting, then things start

to happen transcendentally.

 

Mukunda: The Vedas inform us that because God is absolute, there is

no difference between God the person and His holy name; the name is

God. When you first started chanting, could you perceive that?

 

George: It takes a certain amount of time and faith to accept or to

realize that there is no difference between Him and His name, to get

to the point where you're no longer mystified by where He is. You

know, like, "Is He around here?" You realize after some time, "Here

He is--right here!" It's a matter of practice. So when I say that "l

see God," I don't necessarily mean to say that when I chant I'm

seeing Krishna in His original form when He came five thousand years

ago, dancing across the water, playing His flute. Of course, that

would also be nice, and it's quite possible too. When you become real

pure by chanting, you can actually see God like that, I mean

personally. But no doubt you can feel His presence and know that He's

there when you're chanting.

 

Mukunda: Can you think of any incident where you felt God's presence

very strongly through chanting?

 

George: Once I was on an airplane that was in an electric storm. It

was hit by lightning three times, and a Boeing 707 went over the top

of us, missing by inches. I thought the back end of the plane had

blown off. I was on my way from Los Angeles to New York to organize

the Bangladesh concert. As soon as the plane began bouncing around, I

started chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare

Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. The whole thing

went on for about an hour and a half or two hours, the plane dropping

hundreds of feet and bouncing all over in the storm, all the lights

out and all these explosions, and everybody terrified. I ended up

with my feet pressed against the seat in front, my seat belt as tight

as it could be, gripping on the thing, and yelling Hare Krishna, Hare

Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare at the top of my voice. I know for

me, the difference between making it and not making it was actually

chanting the mantra. Peter Sellers also swore that chanting Hare*

Krishna saved him from a plane crash once.

 

John Lennon and Hare Krishna

 

Mukunda: Did any of the other Beatles chant?

 

George: Before meeting Prabhupada and all of you, I had bought that

album Prabhupada did in New York .(SIDE A / SIDE B) , and John and I

listened to it. I remember we sang it for days, John and I, with

ukulele banjos, sailing through the Greek Islands chanting Hare

Krishna. Like six hours we sang, because we couldn't stop once we got

going. As soon as we stopped, it was like the lights went out. It

went on to the point where our jaws were aching, singing the mantra

over and over and over and over and over. We felt exalted; it was a

very happy time for us.

 

Mukunda: You know, I saw a video the other day sent to us from

Canada, showing John and Yoko Ono recording their hit song "Give

Peace a Chance," and about five or six of the devotees were there in

John's room at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel in Montreal, singing along

and playing cymbals and drums. You know, John and Yoko chanted Hare

Krishna on that song. That was in May of '69, and just three months

later, Srila Prabhupada was John and Yoko's house guest for one month

at their estate outside London.

 

While Prabhupada was there, you, John, and Yoko came to his room one

afternoon for a few hours. I think that was the first time you all

met him.

 

George: That's right.

 

Mukunda: At that point John was a spiritual seeker, and Prabhupada

explained the true path to peace and liberation. He talked about the

eternality of the soul, karma, and reincarnation, which are all

elaborately dealt with in the Vedic literatures.Vedas, predating the

Bible and covering all aspects of spiritual knowledge from the nature

of the self, or individual soul, to the Supreme Soul (Sri Krishna)

and His kingdom in the spiritual world. Although John never made Hare

Krishna a big part of his life, he echoed the philosophy of Krishna

consciousness in a hit song he wrote just about a year after that

conversation, "Instant Karma."

 

Now what's the difference between chanting Hare Krishna and

meditation?

 

George: It's really the same sort of thing as meditation, but I think

it has a quicker effect. I mean, even if you put your beads down, you

can still say the mantra or sing it without actually keeping track on

your beads. One of the main differences between silent meditation and

chanting is that silent meditation is rather dependent on

concentration, but when you chant, it's more of a direct connection

with God.

 

Practical Meditation

 

Mukunda: The maha-mantra was prescribed for modern times because of

the fast-paced nature of things today. Even when people do get into a

little quiet place, it's very difficult to calm the mind for very

long.

 

George: That's right. Chanting Hare Krishna is a type of meditation

that can be practiced even if the mind is in turbulence. You can even

be doing it and other things at the same time. That's what's so nice.

In my life there's been many times the mantra brought things around.

It keeps me in tune with reality, and the more you sit in one place

and chant, the more incense you offer to Krishna in the same room,

the more you purify the vibration, the more you can achieve what

you're trying to do, which is just trying to remember God, God, God,

God, God, as often as possible. And if you're talking to Him with the

mantra, it certainly helps.

 

Mukunda: What else helps you to fix your mind on God?

 

George: Well, just having as many things around me that will remind

me of Him, like incense and pictures. Just the other day I was

looking at a small picture on the wall of my studio of you, Gurudasa,

and Syamasundara, and just seeing all the old devotees made me think

of Krishna. I guess that's the business of devotees--to make you

think of God.

 

Mukunda: How often do you chant?

 

George: Whenever I get a chance.

 

Mukunda: Once you asked Srila Prabhupada about a particular verse he

quoted from the Vedas, in which it's said that when one chants the

holy name of Krishna, Krishna dances on the tongue and one wishes one

had thousands of ears and thousands of mouths with which to better

appreciate the holy names of God.

 

George: Yes. I think he was talking about the realization that there

is no difference between Him standing before you and His being

present in His name. That's the real beauty of chanting--you directly

connect with God. I have no doubt that by saying Krishna over and

over again, He can come and dance on the tongue. The main thing,

though, is to keep in touch with God.

 

Mukunda: So your habit is generally to use the beads when you chant?

 

George: Oh, yeah. I have my beads. I remember when I first got them,

they were just big knobby globs of wood, but now I'm very glad to say

that they're smooth from chanting a lot.

 

Mukunda: Do you generally keep them in the bag when you chant?

 

George: Yes. I find it's very good to be touching them. It keeps

another one of the senses fixed on God. Beads really help in that

respect. You know, the frustrating thing about it was in the

beginning there was a period when I was heavy into chanting and I had

my hand in my bead bag all the time. And I got so tired of people

asking me, "Did you hurt your hand, break it or something?" In the

end I used to say, "Yeah. Yeah. I had an accident," because it was

easier than explaining everything. Using the beads also helps me to

release a lot of nervous energy.

 

Mukunda: Some people say that if everyone on the planet chanted Hare

Krishna, they wouldn't be able to keep their minds on what they were

doing. In other words, if everyone started chanting, some people ask

if the whole world wouldn't just grind to a halt. They wonder if

people would stop working in factories, for example.

 

George: No. Chanting doesn't stop you from being creative or

productive. It actually helps you concentrate. I think this would

make a great sketch for television: imagine all the workers on the

Ford assembly line in Detroit, all of them chanting Hare Krishna Hare

Krishna while bolting on the wheels. Now that would be wonderful. It

might help out the auto industry, and probably there would be more

decent cars too.

 

Experiencing God Through the Senses

 

Mukunda: We've talked a lot about japa, or personalized chanting,

which most chanters engage in. But there's another type, called

kirtana, when one chants congregationally, in a temple or on the

streets with a group of devotees. Kirtana generally gives a more

supercharged effect, like recharging one's spiritual batteries, and

it gives others a chance to hear the holy names and become purified.

 

Actually, I was with Srila Prabhupada when he first began the group

chanting in Tompkins Square Park on New York's Lower East Side in

1966. The poet Allen Ginsberg would come and chant with us a lot and

would play on his harmonium. A lot of people would come to hear the

chanting, then Prabhupada would give lectures on Bhagavad-gita back

at the temple.

 

George: Yes, going to a temple or chanting with a group of other

people--the vibration is that much stronger. Of course, for some

people it's easy just to start chanting on their beads in the middle

of a crowd, while other people are more comfortable chanting in the

temple. But part of Krishna consciousness is trying to tune in all

the senses of all the people: to experience God through all the

senses, not just by experiencing Him on Sunday, through your knees by

kneeling on some hard wooden kneeler in the church. But if you visit

a temple, you can see pictures of God, you can see the Deity form of

the Lord, and you can just hear Him by listening to yourself and

others say the mantra. It's just a way of realizing that all the

senses can be applied toward perceiving God, and it makes it that

much more appealing, seeing the pictures, hearing the mantra,

smelling the incense, flowers, and so on. That's the nice thing about

your movement. It incorporates everything--chanting, dancing,

philosophy, and prasadam. The music and dancing is a serious part of

the process too. It's not just something to burn off excess energy.

 

Mukunda: We've always seen that when we chant in the streets, people

are eager to crowd around and listen. A lot of them tap their feet or

dance along.

 

George: It's great, the sound of the karatalas [cymbals]. When I hear

them from a few blocks away, it's like some magical thing that

awakens something in me. Without their really being aware of what's

happening, people are being awakened spiritually. Of course, in

another sense, in a higher sense, the kirtana is always going on,

whether we're hearing it or not.

 

Now, all over the place in Western cities, the sankirtana party has

become a common sight. I love to see these sankirtana parties,

because I love the whole idea of the devotees mixing it up with

everybody, giving everybody a chance to remember. I wrote in the

Krsna book introduction, "Everybody is looking for Krishna. Some

don't realize that they are, but they are. Krishna is God ... and by

chanting His Holy Names, the devotee quickly develops God-

consciousness."

 

Mukunda: You know, Srila Prabhupada often said that after a large

number of temples were established, most people would simply begin to

take up the chanting of Hare Krishna within their own homes, and

we're seeing more and more that this is what's happening. Our

worldwide congregation is very large--in the millions. The chanting

on the streets, the books, and the temples are there to give people a

start, to introduce them to the process.

 

George: I think it's better that it is spreading into the homes now.

There are a lot of "closet Krishnas," you know. There's a lot of

people out there who are just waiting, and if it's not today, it will

be tomorrow or next week or next year.

 

Back in the sixties, whatever we were all getting into, we tended to

broadcast it as loud as we could. I had had certain realizations and

went through a period where I was so thrilled about my discoveries

and realizations that I wanted to shout and tell it to everybody. But

there's a time to shout it out and a time not to shout it out. A lot

of people went underground with their spiritual life in the

seventies, but they're out there in little nooks and crannies and in

the countryside, people who look and dress straight, insurance

salesmen types, but they're really meditators and chanters, closet

devotees.

 

Prabhupada's movement is doing pretty well. It's growing like

wildfire really. How long it will take until we get to a Golden Age

where everybody's perfectly in tune with God's will, I don't know;

but because of Prabhupada, Krishna consciousness has certainly spread

more in the last sixteen years than it has since the sixteenth

century, since the time of Lord Caitanya. The mantra has spread more

quickly and the movement's gotten bigger and bigger. It would be

great if everyone chanted. Everybody would benefit by doing it. No

matter how much money you've got, it doesn't necessarily make you

happy. You have to find your happiness with the problems you have,

not worry too much about them, and chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna,

Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare.

 

The Hare Krishna Record

 

Mukunda: In 1969 you produced a single called "The Hare Krishna

Mantra," which eventually became a hit in many countries. That tune

later became a cut on the Radha-Krishna Temple album, which you also

produced on the Apple label and was distributed in America by Capitol

Records. A lot of people in the recording business were surprised by

this, your producing songs for and singing with the Hare Krishnas.

Why did you do it?

 

George: Well, it's just all a part of service, isn't it? Spiritual

service, in order to try to spread the mantra all over the world.

Also, to try and give the devotees a wider base and a bigger foothold

in England and everywhere else.

 

Mukunda: How did the success of this record of Hare Krishna devotees

chanting compare with some of the rock musicians you were producing

at the time like Jackie Lomax, Splinter, and Billy Preston?

 

George: It was a different thing. Nothing to do with that really.

There was much more reason to do it. There was less commercial

potential in it, but it was much more satisfying to do, knowing the

possibilities that it was going to create, the connotations it would

have just by doing a three-and-a-half-minute mantra. That was more

fun really than trying to make a pop hit record. It was the feeling

of trying to utilize your skills or job to make it into some

spiritual service to Krishna.

 

Mukunda: What effect do you think that tune, "The Hare Krishna

Mantra," having reached millions and millions of people, has had on

the cosmic consciousness of the world?

 

George: I'd like to think it had some effect. After all, the sound is

God.

 

Mukunda: When Apple, the recording company, called a press conference

to promote the record, the media seemed to be shocked to hear you

speak about the soul and God being so important.

 

George: I felt it was important to try and be precise, to tell them

and let them know. You know, to come out of the closet and really

tell them. Because once you realize something, then you can't pretend

you don't know it any more.

 

I figured this is the space age, with airplanes and everything. If

everyone can go around the world on their holidays, there's no reason

why a mantra can't go a few miles as well. So the idea was to try to

spiritually infiltrate society, so to speak. After I got Apple

Records committed to you and the record released, and after our big

promotion, we saw it was going to become a hit. And one of the

greatest things, one of the greatest thrills of my life, actually,

was seeing you all on BBC's Top of the Pops. I couldn't believe it.

It's pretty hard to get on that program, because they only put you on

if you come into the Top 20. It was just like a breath of fresh air.

My strategy was to keep it to a three-and-a-half-minute version of

the mantra so they'd play it on the radio, and it worked. I did the

harmonium and guitar track for that record at Abbey Road studios

before one of the Beatles' sessions and then overdubbed a bass part.

I remember Paul McCartney and his wife, Linda, arrived at the studio

and enjoyed the mantra.

 

Mukunda: Paul's quite favorable now, you know.

 

George: That's good. It still sounds like quite a good recording,

even after all these years. It was the greatest fun of all, really,

to see Krishna on Top of the Pops.

 

Mukunda: Shortly after its release, John Lennon told me that they

played it at the intermission right before Bob Dylan did the Isle of

Wight concert with Jimi Hendrix, the Moody Blues, and Joe Cocker in

the summer of '69.

 

George: They played it while they were getting the stage set up for

Bob. It was great. Besides, it was a catchy tune, and the people

didn't have to know what it meant in order to enjoy it. I felt very

good when I first heard it was doing well.

 

Mukunda: How did you feel about the record technically, the voices?

 

George: Yamuna, the lead singer, has a naturally good voice. I liked

the way she sang with conviction, and she sang like she'd been

singing it a lot before. It didn't sound like the first tune she'd

ever sung.

 

You know, I used to sing the mantra long before I met any of the

devotees or long before I met Prabhupada, because I had his first

record then for at least two years. When you're open to something

it's like being a beacon, and you attract it. From the first time I

heard the chanting, it was like a door opened somewhere in my

subconscious, maybe from some previous life.

 

Mukunda: In the Iyrics to that song "Awaiting on You All," from the

All Things Must Pass album, you come right out front and tell people

that they can be free from living in the material world by chanting

the names of God. What made you do it? What kind of feedback did you

get?

 

George: At that time, nobody was committed to that type of music in

the pop world. There was, I felt, a real need for that, so rather

than sitting and waiting for somebody else, I decided to do it

myself. A lot of times we think, "Well, I agree with you, but I'm not

going to actually stand up and be counted. Too risky." Everybody is

always trying to keep themselves covered, stay commercial, so I

thought, just do it. Nobody else is, and I'm sick of all these young

people just boogeying around, wasting their lives, you know. Also, I

felt that there were a lot of people out there who would be reached.

I still get letters from people saying, "I have been in the Krishna

temple for three years, and I would have never known about Krishna

unless you recorded the All Things Must Pass album." So I know, by

the Lord's grace, I am a small part in the cosmic play.

 

Mukunda: What about the other Beatles? What did they think about your

taking up Krishna consciousness? What was their reaction? You'd all

been to India by then and were pretty much searching for something

spiritual. Syamasundara said that once, when he ate lunch with you

and the other Beatles, they were all quite respectful.

 

George: Oh, yeah, well, if the Fab Four didn't get it, that is, if

they couldn't deal with shaven-headed Hare Krishnas, then there would

have been no hope! [Laughter.] And the devotees just came to be

associated with me, so people stopped thinking, "Hey, what's this?"

you know, if somebody in orange, with a shaved head, would appear.

They'd say, "Oh, yeah, they're with George."

 

Mukunda: From the very start, you always felt comfortable around the

devotees?

 

George: The first time I met Syamasundara, I liked him. He was my

pal. I'd read about Prabhupada coming from India to Boston on the

back of his record, and I knew that Syamasundara and all of you were

in my age group, and that the only difference, really, was that you'd

already joined and I hadn't. I was in a rock band, but I didn't have

any fear, because I had seen dhotis, your robes, and the saffron

color and shaved heads in India. Krishna consciousness was especially

good for me because I didn't get the feeling that I'd have to shave

my head, move into a temple, and do it full time. So it was a

spiritual thing that just fit in with my life-style. I could still be

a musician, but I just changed my consciousness, that's all.

 

Mukunda: You know, the Tudor mansion and estate that you gave us

outside London has become one of our largest international centers.

How do you feel about the Bhaktivedanta Manor's success in spreading

Krishna consciousness?

 

George: Oh, it's great. And it also relates to making the Hare

Krishna record or whatever my involvements were. Actually, it gives

me pleasure, the idea that I was fortunate enough to be able to help

at that time. All those songs with spiritual themes were like little

plugs--"My Sweet Lord" and the others. And now I know that people are

much more respectful and accepting when it comes to seeing the

devotees in the streets and all that. It's no longer like something

that's coming from left field.

 

And I've given a lot of Prabhupada's books to many people, and

whether I ever hear from them again or not, it's good to know that

they've gotten them, and if they read them, their lives may be

changed.

 

Mukunda: When you come across people who are spiritually inclined but

don't have much knowledge, what kind of advice do you give them?

 

George: I try to tell them my little bit, what my experience is, and

give them a choice of things to read and a choice of places to go--

like you know, "Go to the temple, try chanting."

 

Mukunda: In the "Ballad of John and Yoko," John and Yoko rapped the

media for the way it can foster a false image of you and perpetuate

it. It's taken a lot of time and effort to get them to understand

that we are a genuine religion, with scriptures that predate the New

Testament by three thousand years. Gradually, though, more people,

scholars, philosophers, and theologians, have come around, and today

they have a great deal of respect for the ancient Vaisnava tradition,

where the modern-day Krishna consciousness movement has its roots

 

George: The media is to blame for everything, for all the

misconceptions about the movement, but in a sense it didn't really

matter if they said something good or bad, because Krishna

consciousness always seemed to transcend that barrier anyway The fact

that the media was letting people know about Krishna was good in

itself.

 

Mukunda: Srila Prabhupada always trained us to stick to our

principles. He said that the worst thing we could ever do would be to

make some sort of compromise or to dilute the philosophy for the sake

of cheap popularity. Although many swamis and yogis had come from

India to the West, Prabhupada was the only one with the purity and

devotion to establish India's ancient Krishna conscious philosophy

around the world on its own terms-not watered down, but as it is.

 

George: That's right. He was a perfect example of what he preached.

 

Mukunda: How did you feel about financing the first printing of the

Krsna book and writing the introduction?

 

George: I just felt like it was part of my job, you know. Wherever I

go in the world, when I see devotees, I always say "Hare Krishna!" to

them, and they're always pleased to see me. It's a nice relationship.

Whether they really know me personally or not, they feel they know

me. And they do, really.

 

Mukunda: When you did the Material World album, you used a photo

insert taken from the cover of Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita showing

Krishna and His friend and disciple, Arjuna. Why?

 

George: Oh, yeah. It said on the album, "From the cover of Bhagavad-

gita As It Is by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami." It was a promo for you,

of course. I wanted to give them all a chance to see Krishna, to know

about Him. I mean that's the whole idea, isn't it?

 

Spiritual Food

 

Mukunda: At lunch today we spoke a little about prasadam, vegetarian

foods that have been spiritualized by being offered to Krishna. A lot

of people have come to Krishna consciousness through prasadam.I mean,

this process is the only kind of yoga that you can actually practice

by eating.

 

George: Well, we should try to see God in everything, so it helps so

much having the food to taste. Let's face it, if God is in

everything, why shouldn't you taste Him when you eat? I think that

prasadam is a very important thing. Krishna is God, so He's absolute:

His name, His form, prasadam, it's all Him. They say the way to a

man's heart is through his stomach, so if you can get to a man's

spirit soul by eating, and it works, why not do it? There's nothing

better than having been chanting and dancing, or just sitting and

talking philosophy, and then suddenly the devotees bring out the

prasadam. It's a blessing from Krishna, and it's spiritually

important. The idea is that prasadam is the sacrament the Christians

talk about, only instead of being just a wafer, it's a whole feast,

really, and the taste is so nice--it's out of this world. And

prasadam's a good little hook in this age of commercialism. When

people want something extra, or they need to have something special,

prasadam will hook them in there. It's undoubtedly done a great deal

toward getting a lot more people involved in spiritual life. It

breaks down preju dices, too. Because they think, "Oh, well, yes, I

wouldn't mind a drink of whatever or a bite of that." Then they

ask, "What's this?" and "Oh, well, it's prasadam." And they get to

learn another aspect of Krishna consciousness. Then they say, "It

actually tastes quite nice. Have you got another plateful?" I've seen

that happen with lots of people, especially older people I've seen at

your temples. Maybe they were a little prejudiced, but the next thing

you know, they're in love with prasadam, and eventually they walk out

of the temple thinking, "They're not so bad after all."

 

Mukunda: The Vedic literatures reveal that prasadam conveys spiritual

realization, just as chanting does, but in a less obvious or

conspicuous way. You make spiritual advancement just by eating it.

 

George: I'd say from my experience that it definitely works. I've

always enjoyed prasadam much more when I've been at the temple, or

when I've actually been sitting with Prabhupada, than when somebody's

brought it to me. Sometimes you can sit there with prasadam and find

that three or four hours have gone by and you didn't even know it.

Prasadam really helped me a lot, because you start to realize "Now

I'm tasting Krishna." You're conscious suddenly of another aspect of

God, understanding that He's this little samosa.* It's all just a

matter of tuning into the spiritual, and prasadam's a very real part

of it all.

 

Mukunda: You know, a lot of rock groups like Grateful Dead and Police

get prasadam backstage before their concerts. They love it. It's a

long-standing tradition with us. I remember one time sending prasadam

to one of the Beatles' recording sessions. And your sister was

telling me today that while you were doing the Bangladesh concert,

Syamasundara used to bring you all prasadam at the rehearsals.

 

George: Yes, he's even got a credit on the album sleeve.

 

Mukunda: What are your favorite kinds of prasadam, George?

 

George: I really like those deep-fried cauliflower things--pakoras?*

 

Mukunda: Yes.

 

George: And one thing I always liked was rasamalai [a milk sweet].

And there's a lot of good drinks as well, fruit juices and lassi, the

yogurt drinks mixed with fruit, and sometimes with rose water.

 

Mukunda:You've been a vegetarian for years, George. Have you had any

difficulties maintaining it?

 

George: No. Actually, I wised up and made sure I had dal bean soup or

something every day. Actually, lentils are one of the cheapest

things, but they give you A-l protein. People are simply screwing up

when they go out and buy beef steak, which is killing them with

cancer and heart troubles. The stuff costs a fortune too. You could

feed a thousand people with lentil soup for the cost of half a dozen

filets. Does that make sense?

 

Mukunda: One of the things that really has a profound effect on

people when they visit the temples or read our books is the paintings

and sculptures done by our devotee artists of scenes from Krishna's

pastimes when He appeared on earth five thousand years ago.

Prabhupada once said that these paintings were "windows to the

spiritual world," and he organized an art academy, training his

disciples in the techniques for creating transcendental art. Now,

tens of thousands of people have these paintings hanging in their

homes, either the originals, lithographs, canvas prints, or posters.

You've been to our multimedia Bhagavad-gita museum in Los Angeles.

What kind of an effect did it have on you?

 

George: I thought it was great--better than Disneyland, really. I

mean, it's as valuable as that or the Smithsonian Institute in

Washington. The sculpted dioramas look great, and the music is nice.

It gives people a real feel for what the kingdom of God must be like,

and much more basic than that, it shows in a way that's easy for even

a child to understand exactly how the body is different from the

soul, and how the soul's the important thing. I always have pictures

around like the one of Krishna on the chariot that I put in the

Material World album, and I have the sculpted Siva fountainBhagavad-

gita museum, George asked if the artists and sculptors who had

produced the museum could sculpt a life-sized fountain of Lord Siva,

one of the principal Hindu demigods and a great devotee of Lord

Krishna. Lord Siva, in a meditative pose, complete with a stream of

water spouting from his head, now resides in the gardens of George's

estate, heralded as among the most beautiful in all of England. the

devotees made for me in my garden. Pictures are helpful when I'm

chanting. You know that painting in the Bhagavad-gita of the

Supersoul in the heart of the dog, the cow, the elephant, the poor

man, and the priest? That's very good to help you realize that

Krishna is dwelling in the hearts of everybody. It doesn't matter

what kind of body you've got, the Lord's there with you. We're all

the same really.

 

Meeting Srila Prabhupada

 

Mukunda: George, you and John Lennon met Srila Prabhupada together

when he stayed at John's home, in September of 1969.

 

George: Yes, but when I met him at first, I underestimated him. I

didn't realize it then, but I see now that because of him, the mantra

has spread so far in the last sixteen years, more than it had in the

last five centuries. Now that's pretty amazing, because he was

getting older and older, yet he was writing his books all the time. I

realized later on that he was much more incredible than what you

could see on the surface.

 

Mukunda: What about him stands out the most in your mind?

 

George: The thing that always stays is his saying, "I am the servant

of the servant of the servant." I like that. A lot of people

say, "I'm it. I'm the divine incarnation. I'm here and let me hip

you." You know what I mean? But Prabhupada was never like that. I

liked Prabhupada's humbleness. I always liked his humility and his

simplicity The servant of the servant of the servant is really what

it is, you know. None of us are God--just His servants. He just made

me feel so comfortable. I always felt very relaxed with him, and I

felt more like a friend. I felt that he was a good friend. Even

though he was at the time seventy-nine years old, working practically

all through the night, day after day, with very little sleep, he

still didn't come through to me as though he was a very highly

educated intellectual being, because he had a sort of childlike

simplicity. Which is great, fantastic. Even though he was the

greatest Sanskrit scholar and a saint, I appreciated the fact that he

never made me feel uncomfortable. In fact, he always went out of his

way to make me feel comfortable. I always thought of him as sort of a

lovely friend, really, and now he's still a lovely friend.

 

Mukunda: In one of his books, Prabhupada said that your sincere

service was better than some people who had delved more deeply into

Krishna consciousness but could not maintain that level of

commitment. How did you feel about this?

 

George: Very wonderful, really. I mean it really gave me hope,

because as they say, even one moment in the company of a divine

person, Krishna's pure devotee, can help a tremendous amount.

 

And I think Prabhupada was really pleased at the idea that somebody

from outside of the temple was helping to get the album made. Just

the fact that he was pleased was encouraging to me. I knew he

liked "The Hare Krishna Mantra" record, and he asked the devotees to

play that song "Govinda." They still play it, don't they?

 

Mukunda: Every temple has a recording of it, and we play it each

morning when the devotees assemble before the altar, before kirtana.

It's an ISKCON institution, you might say.

 

George: And if I didn't get feedback from Prabhupada on my songs

about Krishna or the philosophy, I'd get it from the devotees. That's

all the encouragement I needed really. It just seemed that anything

spiritual I did, either through songs, or helping with publishing the

books, or whatever, really pleased him. The song I wrote, "Living in

the Material World," as I wrote in I, Me, Mine, was influenced by

Srila Prabhupada. He's the one who explained to me how we're not

these physical bodies. We just happen to be in them.

 

Like I said in the song, this place's not really what's happening. We

don't belong here, but in the spiritual sky:

 

As l'm fated for the material world

Get frustrated in the material world

Senses never gratified

Only swelling like a tide

That could drown me in the material world

 

The whole point to being here, really, is to figure a way to get out.

 

That was the thing about Prabhupada, you see. He didn't just talk

about loving Krishna and getting out of this place, but he was the

perfect example. He talked about always chanting, and he was always

chanting. I think that that in itself was perhaps the most

encouraging thing for me. It was enough to make me try harder, to be

just a little bit better. He was a perfect example of everything he

preached.

 

Mukunda: How would you describe Srila Prabhupada's achievements?

 

George: I think Prabhupada's accomplishments are very significant;

they're huge. Even compared to someone like William Shakespeare, the

amount of literature Prabhupada produced is truly amazing. It boggles

the mind. He sometimes went for days with only a few hours sleep. I

mean even a youthful, athletic young person couldn't keep the pace he

kept himself at seventy-nine years of age.

 

Srila Prabhupada has already had an amazing effect on the world.

There's no way of measuring it. One day I just realized, "God, this

man is amazing!" He would sit up all night translating Sanskrit into

English, putting in glossaries to make sure everyone understands it,

and yet he never came off as someone above you. He always had that

childlike simplicity, and what's most amazing is the fact that he did

all this translating in such a relatively short time--just a few

years. And without having anything more than his own Krishna

consciousness, he rounded up all these thousands of devotees, set the

whole movement in motion, which became something so strong that it

went on even after he left. And it's still escalating even now at an

incredible rate. It will go on and on from the knowledge he gave. It

can only grow and grow. The more people wake up spiritually, the more

they'll begin to realize the depth of what Prabhupada was saying--how

much he gave.

 

Mukunda: Did you know that complete sets of Prabhupada's books are in

all the major colleges and universities in the world, including

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, and the Sorbonne?

 

George: They should be! One of the greatest things I noticed about

Prabhupada was the way he would be talking to you in English, and

then all of a sudden he would say it to you in Sanskrit and then

translate it back into English. It was clear that he really knew it

well. His contribution has obviously been enormous from the literary

point of view, because he's brought the Supreme Person, Krishna, more

into focus. A lot of scholars and writers know the Gita, but only on

an intellectual level. Even when they write "Krishna said...," they

don't do it with the bhakti or love required. That's the secret, you

know--Krishna is actually a person who is the Lord and who will also

appear there in that book when there is that love, that bhakti. You

can't understand the first thing about God unless you love Him. These

big so-called Vedic scholars--they don't necessarily love Krishna, so

they can't understand Him and give Him to us. But Prabhupada was

different.

 

Mukunda: The Vedic literatures predicted that after the advent of

Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago, there would be a Golden Age of

ten thousand years, when the chanting of the holy names of God would

completely nullify all the degradations of the modern age, and real

spiritual peace would come to this planet.

 

George: Well, Prabhupada's definitely affected the world in an

absolute way. What he was giving us was the highest literature, the

highest knowledge. I mean there just isn't anything higher.

 

Mukunda: You write in your autobiography that "No matter how good you

are, you still need grace to get out of the material world. You can

be a yogi or a monk or a nun, but without God's grace you still can't

make it." And at the end of the song "Living in the Material World,"

the Iyrics say, "Got to get out of this place by the Lord Sri

Krishna's grace, my salvation from the material world." If we're

dependent on the grace of God, what does the expression "God helps

those who help themselves" mean?

 

George: It's flexible, I think. In one way, I'm never going to get

out of here unless it's by His grace but then again, His grace is

relative to the amount of desire I can manifest in myself. The amount

of grace I would expect from God should be equal to the amount of

grace I can gather or earn. I get out what I put in. Like in the song

I wrote about Prabhupada:

 

The Lord loves the one that loves the Lord

And the law says if you don't give,

then you don't get loving

Now the Lord helps those that help themselves

And the law says whatever you do

It comes right back on you

 

--"The Lord Loves the One that Loves the Lord"

from Living in the Material World

Apple LP

 

Have you heard that song "That Which I Have Lost" from my new album,

Somewhere in England? It's right out of the Bhagavad-gita. In it I

talk about fighting the forces of darkness, limitations, falsehood,

and mortality.

 

God Is a Person

 

Mukunda: Yes, I like it. If people can understand the Lord's message

in Bhagavad-gita, they can become truly happy.

 

A lot of people, when they just get started in spiritual life,

worship God as impersonal. What's the difference between worshiping

Krishna, or God, in His personal form and worshiping His impersonal

nature as energy or light?

 

George: It's like the difference between hanging out with a computer

or hanging out with a person. Like I said earlier, "If there is a

God, I want to see Him," not only His energy or His light, but Him.

 

Mukunda: What do you think is the goal of human life?

 

George: Each individual has to burn out his own karma and escape from

the chains of maya (illusion), reincarnation, and all that. The best

thing anyone can give to humanity is God consciousness. Then you can

really give them something. But first you have to concentrate on your

own spiritual advancement; so in a sense we have to become selfish to

become selfless.

 

Mukunda: What about trying to solve the problems of life without

employing the spiritual process?

 

George: Life is like a piece of string with a lot of knots tied in

it. The knots are the karma you're born with from all your past

lives, and the object of human life is to try and undo all those

knots. That's what chanting and meditation in God consciousness can

do. Otherwise you simply tie another ten knots each time you try to

undo one knot. That's how karma works. I mean, we're now the results

of our past actions, and in the future we'll be the results of the

actions we're performing now. A little understanding of "As you sow,

so shall you reap" is important, because then you can't blame the

condition you're in on anyone else. You know that it's by your own

actions you're able to get more in a mess or out of one. It's your

own actions that relieve or bind you.

 

Mukunda: In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the crest jewel of all the Vedic

literatures, it's described how those pure souls who live in the

spiritual world with God have different types of rasas, or

relationships, with Him. Is there any special way you like to think

of Krishna?

 

George: I like the idea of seeing Krishna as a baby, the way He's

often depicted in India. And also Govinda, the cowherd boy. I like

the idea that you can have Krishna as a baby and feel protective to

Him, or as your friend, or as the guru or master--type figure.

 

"My Sweet Lord"

 

Mukunda: I don't think it's possible to calculate just how many

people were turned on to Krishna consciousness by your song "My Sweet

Lord." But you went through quite a personal thing before you decided

to do that song. In your book you said, "I thought a lot about

whether to do 'My Sweet Lord' or not because I would be committing

myself publicly ... Many people fear the words Lord and God ... I was

sticking my neck out on the chopping block ... but at the same time I

thought 'Nobody's saying it ... why should I be untrue to myself?' I

came to believe in the importance that if you feel something strong

enough, then you should say it.

 

"I wanted to show that Hallelujah and Hare Krishna are quite the same

thing. I did the voices singing 'Hallelujah' and then the change

to 'Hare Krishna' so that people would be chanting the maha-mantra-

before they knew what was going on! I had been chanting Hare Krishna

for a long time, and this song was a simple idea of how to do a

Western pop equivalent of a mantra which repeats over and over again

the holy names. I don't feel guilty or bad about it; in fact it saved

many a heroin addict's life."

 

Why did you feel you wanted to put Hare Krishna on the album at all?

Wouldn't "Hallelujah" alone have been good enough?

 

George: Well, first of all "Hallelujah" is a joyous expression the

Christians have, but "Hare Krishna" has a mystical side to it. It's

more than just glorifying God; it's asking to become His servant. And

because of the way the mantra is put together, with the mystic

spiritual energy contained in those syllables, it's much closer to

God than the way Christianity currently seems to be representing Him.

Although Christ in my mind is an absolute yogi, I think many

Christian teachers today are misrepresenting Christ. They're supposed

to be representing Jesus, but they're not doing it very well. They're

letting him down very badly, and that's a big turn off.

 

My idea in "My Sweet Lord," because it sounded like a "pop song," was

to sneak up on them a bit. The point was to have the people not

offended by "Hallelujah," and by the time it gets to "Hare Krishna,"

they're already hooked, and their foot's tapping, and they're already

singing along "Hallelujah," to kind of lull them into a sense of

false security. And then suddenly it turns into "Hare Krishna," and

they will all be singing that before they know what's happened, and

they will think, "Hey, I thought I wasn't supposed to like Hare

Krishna!"

 

People write to me even now asking what style that was. Ten years

later they're still trying to figure out what the words mean. It was

just a little trick really. And it didn't offend. For some reason I

never got any offensive feedback from Christians who said "We like it

up to a point, but what's all this about Hare Krishna?"

 

Hallelujah may have originally been some mantric thing that got

watered down, but I'm not sure what it really means. The Greek word

for Christ is Kristos, which is, let's face it, Krishna, and Kristos

is the same name actually.

 

Mukunda: What would you say is the difference between the Christian

view of God, and Krishna as represented in the Bhagavad-gita?

 

George: When I first came to this house, it was occupied by nuns. I

brought in this poster of Visnu [a four-armed form of Krishna]. You

just see His head and shoulders and His four arms holding a

conchshell and various other symbols, and it has a big om. This

transcendental syllable, which represents Krishna, has been chanted

by many persons throughout history for spiritual perfection.* written

above it. He has a nice aura around Him. I left it by the fireplace

and went out into the garden. When we came back in thc house, they

all pounced on me, saying, "Who is that? What is it?" as if it were

some pagan god. So I said, "Well, if God is unlimited, then He can

appear in any form, whichever way He likes to appear. That's one way.

He's called Visnu." It sort of freaked them out a bit, but the point

is, why should God be limited? Even if you get Him as Krishna, He is

not limited to that picture of Krishna. He can be the baby form, He

can be Govinda and manifest in so many other well-known forms. You

can see Krishna as a little boy, which is how I like to see Krishna.

It's a joyful relationship. But there's this morbid side to the way

many represent Christianity today, where you don't smile, because

it's too serious, and you can't expect to see God--that kind of

stuff. If there is God, we must see Him, and I don't believe in the

idea you find in most churches, where they say, "No, you're not going

to see Him. He's way up above you. Just believe what we tell you and

shut up."

 

I mean, the knowledge that's given in Prabhupada's books--the Vedic

stuff--that's the world's oldest scriptures. They say that man can

become purified, and with divine vision he can see God. You get pure

by chanting, then you see Him. And Sanskrit, the language they're

written in, is the world's first recorded language. Devanagari [the

alphabet of the Sanskrit language] actually means "language of the

gods."

 

Mukunda: Anyone who is sincere about making spiritual advancement,

whatever one's religion may be, can usually see the value of

chanting. I mean if that person was really trying to be God conscious

and trying to chant sincerely.

 

George: That's right. It's a matter of being open. Anyone who's open

can do it. You just have to be open and not prejudiced. You just have

to try it. There's no loss, you know. But the "intellectuals" will

always have problems, because they always need to "know." They're

often the most spiritually bankrupt people, because they never let

go; they don't understand the meaning of "to transcend" the

intellect. But an ordinary person's more willing to say, "Okay. Let

me try it and see if it works." Chanting Hare Krishna can make a

person a better Christian, too.

 

Karma and Reincarnation

 

Mukunda: In I, Me, Mine, you speak about karma and reincarnation, and

how the only way to get out of the cycle is to take up a bona fide

spiritual process. You said at one point, "Everybody is worried about

dying, but the cause of death is birth, so if you don't want to die,

you don't get born!" Did any of the other Beatles believe in

reincarnation?

 

George: I'm sure John does! And I wouldn't want to underestimate Paul

and Ringo. I wouldn't be surprised if they're hoping it's true, you

know what I mean? For all I know, Ringo might be a yogi disguised as

a drummer!

 

Mukunda: Paul has our latest book, Coming Back: The Science of

Reincarnation. Where do you think John's soul is now?

 

George: I should hope that he's in a good place. He had the

understanding, though, that each soul reincarnates until it becomes

completely pure, and that each soul finds its own level, designated

by reactions to its actions in this and previous lives.

 

Mukunda: Bob Dylan did a lot of chanting at one time. He used to come

to the Los Angeles temple and came to the Denver and Chicago temples

as well. In fact he drove across the United States with two devotees

once and wrote several songs about Krishna. They spent a lot of time

chanting.

 

George: That's right. He said he enjoyed the chanting and being with

them. Also Stevie Wonder had you on one of his records, you know. And

it was great the song he put the chanting in--"Pastimes Paradise."

 

Mukunda: When you were in Vrndavana, India, where Lord Krishna

appeared, and you saw thousands of people chanting Hare Krishna, did

it strengthen your faith in the idea of chanting to see a whole city

living Hare Krishna?

 

George: Yeah, it fortifies you. It definitely helps. It's fantastic

to be in a place where the whole town is doing it. And I also had the

idea that they were all knocked out at the idea of seeing some white

person chanting on beads. Vrndavana is one of the holiest cities in

India. Everyone, everywhere, chants Hare Krishna. It was my most

fantastic experience.

 

Mukunda: You wrote in your book: "Most of the world is fooling about,

especially the people who think they control the world and the

community. The presidents, the politicians, the military, etc., are

all jerking about, acting as if they are Lord over their own domains.

That's basically Problem One on the planet."

 

George: That's right. Unless you're doing some kind of God conscious

thing and you know that He's the one who's really in charge, you're

just building up a lot of karma and not really helping yourself or

anybody else. There's a point in me where it's beyond sad, seeing the

state of the world today. It's so screwed up. It's terrible, and it

will be getting worse and worse. More concrete everywhere, more

pollution, more radioactivity. There's no wilderness left, no pure

air. They're chopping the forests down. They're polluting all the

oceans. In one sense, I'm pessimistic about the future of the planet.

These big guys don't realize for everything they do, there's a

reaction. You have to pay. That's karma.

 

Mukunda: Do you think there's any hope?

 

George: Yes. One by one, everybody's got to escape maya. Everybody

has to burn out his karma and escape reincarnation and all that. Stop

thinking that if Britain or America or Russia or the West or whatever

becomes superior, then we'll beat them, and then we'll all have a

rest and live happily ever after. That doesn't work. The best thing

you can give is God consciousness. Manifest your own divinity first.

The truth is there. It's right within us all. Understand what you

are. If people would just wake up to what's real, there would be no

misery in the world. I guess chanting's a pretty good place to start.

 

Mukunda: Thanks so much, George.

 

George: All right. Hare Krishna!