The Appearance of Sri Krsna

[Guest guest]

Dear Oroboros,

 

"All these transcendental literatures you mentioned have been written

in one lifetime by one author. Krsna descended at the same time, 3,000 BC.

Therefore, Krsna's appearance in Mahabharata and Bhagavad-gita is not a

matter of historical date. Rather, His appearance in these particular bhakti

literatures - and His apparent absense in other Vedic scriptures is caused

by the philosophical aspects of the Absolute Truth and its corresponding

sources."

* * *

 

If you like I can explain a little of these scriptures I know from the

tradition itself.

 

Krsna in His original form as a cowherd boy with peacock feather in His hair

and a flute in His hands descends to this planet once in a day of Brahma, or

every 8,600,000,000 years (A.C. Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada,

Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1983, 4.1, purport p.217).

 

Apart from this appearance He descends another twenty times in different

forms in previous ages. His last (hidden) appearance was Caitanya Mahaprabhu

(1486-1534). The 22nd appearance will be Kalki. Kalki will terminate

Kali-yuga and commence a new Catur-yuga with the age of Satya (A.C.

Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam 1982).

 

The Three Vedas, the 108 Upanisads, the Vedanta-sutra, the smrtis, the

srutis and some 54 Puranas have all been recorded by one author, Srila Krsna

Dvapayana Vyasadeva, a 'literary incarnation of God'. This timeless

knowledge of India existed in an oral tradition since time immemorial until

5,000 years ago. At that time - the end of Dvapara yuga - Lord Krsna

descended to the earth and Vyasadeva recorded the Vedic knowledge to

preserve it for future generations.

 

He divided the Veda in three themes (Rg, Yajur and Sama). The Atharva Veda

is of a later date. The Vedas present the first step towards God

consciousness by means of karma-kanda (fruitive activities). The Rig Veda

for instance contains spells and magic formulas for promotion to higher

planetary systems and other motivated purposes.

 

Krsna Himself says that all Vedas are meant to know Him. Still, the Vedas

aren't particular bhakti literatures in which the personal aspects of the

Absolute Truth are explicitly described. His personal features have been

preserved in special scriptures which have been written for that purpose.

 

The transcendentalists are divided in four categories: karma-yogis (fruitive

workers who desire promotion to the heavenly planets); jnana-yogis

(speculative philosophers and empiric scientists who desire liberation from

material bondage); mystic yogis (who desire subtle material perfections to

lord it over others and the universe); bhakti-yogis (who are desireless and

cultivate unselfish love of God). All Vedic literatures have accordingly

been written in these successive stages of consciousness. The Vedas are the

first step.

 

After the compilation of the Vedas Vyasadeva wrote a commentary on these

scriptures which is the Vedanta-sutra. The Vedanta deals among other

with abstract philosophy - dvaita and advaita (dualism and non-dualism).

This conclusion is one philosophical stage higher than the knowledge of the

Vedas. Here Krsna is mentioned in His impersonal feature as the Supreme

Brahman.

 

Brahman is the first stage of God consciousness. Impersonal Brahman is the

effulgence of the transcendental limbs of the Supreme Absolute Truth, Sri

Krsna (brahmayjoti). The personal names of Krsna have rarely been mentioned,

or in a concealed way, since the Vedas, the Vedanta and the Upanisads aren't

exclusive bhakti literature. The Vedanta and some of the Upanisads are of

the category of jnana (abstract transcendental knowledge).

 

Nevertheless for the expert reader throughout the Vedas, the Upanisads and

Vedanta-sutra, it is stated that Brahman is the Creator of the universe,

omniscient, omnipotent, and the unequalled and unsurpassed Supreme Truth.

For example:

 

yato va imani bhutani jayante yena jatani jivanti

yat prayanty abisamvisanti, tad vijijnasasva tad brahma

(Taittiriya Upanisad, bhrgu 1 anu)

 

janmadyasya yatah (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.2)

[We are all from one source]

 

om tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti

surayah diviva caksuratatam (Rg Veda)

 

sa aiksata (Aitereya Upanisad 1.1.1)

 

Beyond Brahman the second stage of God consciousness is called Paramatma

realization. Here one sees the Super Soul next to the individual soul of all

living entities. In ancient times the yogis meditated on the transcendental

form of Visnu in the heart of all living entities which is, indeed, another

aspect of the Absolute Truth. Visnu - as an expansion of Krsna - is in

charge of the maintenance of the material and spiritual universes. The

origin and function of Visnu can be read in Srimad Bhagavatam, First Canto.

 

The third and highest stage of God realization is Bhagavan. After the

impersonal Vedanta-sutra Vyasadeva wrote a commentary on Vedanta which is

Srimad Bhagavatam (Bhagavata Purana). Next to Srimad Bhagavatam he

wrote Mahabharata of which Bhagavad-gita is one part. This literature is

meant

to be read by followers of the personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, Sri

Krsna. Since these scriptures deal with the Personality of Godhead they

belong to the category of bhakti-vedanta.

 

In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated, "The Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri

Krsna, said: 'I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god,

Vivasvan, and Vivasvan instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and

Manu in turn instructed it to Iksvaku'." (Bh.g. 4.1).

 

"A rough estimate is that the Gita was spoken at least 120,400,000 years

ago; and in human society it has been extant for two million years. It was

respoken by the Lord again to Arjuna about five thousand years ago" (Bh.g.

4.1, purport p.217).

 

Krsna's personal nature can only been understood through bhakti. So the

Vedanta is situated philosophically and technically one platform below the

personal conception of the Absolute Truth. Krsna's own abode is the highest

planet in the spiritual realm, which lies far beyond the Visnu planets. Only

through that bhakti taught by Caitanya Mahaprabhu one can attain a personal

relationship with Krsna in the highest spiritual abode, Goloka Vrndavana.

 

You are right, if you have difficulty in finding Krsna's names outside the

bhakti literatures. The Vedas and the Vedanta aren't explicit bhakti

literature; the Upanisads either. The philosophy of these literatures is

meant to gradually progress from an impersonal conception of the Absolute

Truth through the processes of karma, jnana and yoga to the highest stage of

spiritual understanding. The Vedas and Upanisads might eventually bring one

to the concept of a personal God, only if one is lucky enough to associate

with a pure devotee, a Vaisnava who knows the import of all scriptures.

 

The Vedanta deals with abstract knowledge of the Absolute Truth which is

only one aspect of God. Krsna includes all three aspects: impersonal

Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. The highest stage is Bhagavan. To conceive

of this conclusion one should read bhakti literatures, like Mahabharata,

Bhagavad-gita, and Puranas. These scriptures present the highest conclusions

on the Absolute Truth. However, one should read such literature from bhakti

authorities, or Vaisnavas only - and under guidance of a bonafide Vaisnava

guru. Divine knowledge can only been given through personal relationships

connected to the divinity. This is the secret of all learning. If one wants

to become a lawer, one should take classes from a lawer - not from a

biologist.

 

The International Society for Krsna Consciousness ('Hare Krishnas') are

situated in the unalloyed line coming directly from Krsna and descending

through Brahma-Narada-Vyasadeva-Suta-Krsna-Caitanya-Rupa-Prabhupada, up till

the present day. They are in an unbroken tradition of spiritual successors,

parampara. This guru line is unalloyed and pure, if you want knowledge of

Godhead Himself.

 

If you want to read Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita you should purchase

these books from Vaisnavas. These books are hard to find in book stores. In

fact, there is no bhakti literature available which is interpreted by

authorities from that particular tradition outside India except from A.C.

Bhakti-vedanta Svami Prabhupada. The Bhagavad-gita (a bhakti scripture) has

been translated and interpreted by scientists, atheists and maya-vadis about

360 times. These perverted copies have been spread in the Western world. To

get an authentic copy you should contact the nearest Hare Krishna Center and

purchase directly from them.

 

Jnanis, Saivites, mayavadis, brahmavadis, mystic yogis, karma-yogis,

monists, advaita-vedantins and scientists have no clue of the conclusions of

bhakti. These speculators should be avoided, if you want to progress in

spiritual knowledge on the highest platform. These yogis are contaminated

with personal motivations, like promotion to the heavenly planets,

liberation from material bondage, power over others and the universe,

becoming God themselves, etc. These are perversions covering the Ultimate

Truth.

 

"Our only purpose is to present this Bhagavad-gita As It Is in order to

guide the conditioned student to the same purpose for which Krsna descends

to this planet. This purpose is stated in Bhagavad-gita, and we have to

accept it as it is; otherwise there is no point in trying to understand the

Bhagavad-gita and its speaker, Lord Krsna" (Bh.g. Preface, xix)

 

All these literatures have been written in one lifetime by one author (if

you have

the original Vaisnava copies). Krsna descended at the same time, 5,000 years

ago. Therefore, Krsna's appearance in bhakti literatures, like Mahabharata

and Bhagavad-gita, is not a matter of historical date. Rather, His

appearance in such literatures and His absense in other literatures is

caused by a difference in the technical aspects of the Absolute Truth and

its corresponding literatures.

 

In fact, all of creation is controlled, and all Vedic literatures have been

composed by one spiritual 'family'. That family consists of the associates

of

Krsna and Visnu, not only on earth but also in other planetary systems, in

other universes, and in the spiritual world. Those who are devotees or

personal associates of Godhead Himself are known as Vaisnavas. In fact, all

demigods, like Siva, Parvati, Durga, Mayadevi, Ganesha, Laksmi, Kali,

Brahma, Indra, Varuna, Hanuman, etc. all are Vaisnavas or devotees of

Krsna. This becomes clear if one reads Srimad Bhagavatam, the conclusion on

the Vedanta-sutra.

 

There are four main Vaisnava sampradayas comming from Godhead Himself: the

Kumara-sampradaya, the Rudra-sampadaya, the Sri-sampradaya and the

Brahma-sampradaya. The current bhakti flood of Lord Caitanya and the 'Hare

Krishnas' is authentic and is coming through the Brahma-sampradaya in which

Krsna and His dynasty also appeared 5,000 years ago and 500 years ago

(Caitanya). Brahma himself got the Vedic knowledge directly from Krsna. That

event took place before creation. This can be read in Brahma-samhita. These

sources remain in the care of Vaisnavas. Therefore they are hard to find

among the bulk of Vedic scriptures that have flooded the West.

 

If one abandons all regular literatures and enters the authorized bhakti

scriptures submissively, with an open mind and a soft heart, that only will

be the beginning of one's spiritual life. A hard scientific approach of

these sources will not do because they're higher than - and incompatible to

empiric science.

 

I hope I could serve you,

Kind regards,

 

I.d.

 

 

-

Oroboros Catilyne <catilyne

<vediculture >

Sunday, September 10, 2000 5:14 AM

Re: [world-vedic] Re: The End of Indra's Worship

 

 

>

> At 07:13 PM 9/8/00 +0200, Indira dasi wrote:

>

> >As you probably will know Sri Krsna descended on the earth at the end of

> >Dvapara-yuga, 5,000 years ago.

>

> Could you please be so kind as to cite your sources for this? In studying

> the Vedas, Aranyakas, Brahmanas, and Upanishadic materials I'm finding no

> mention of Krsna. I was under the impression that he really didn't make

an

> appearance in the corpus of materials until the Mahabarta/Bhagavad Gita.

>

> I'm trying to ascertain whether your assertions are a matter of faith or

> historical documentation. I must add that either is fine, but I'm just

> trying to get the histories straight.

>

> Thanx!

>

> -c-

>

>

> _____

> "i want to reach my hand into the dark and *feel* what reaches back"

> -recoil

>

>

>

>

> This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested

in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical,

archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism,

God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.

>

>