The spy who loves Kashmir

[Guest guest]

The spy who loves Kashmir

By AASHA KHOSA

 

 

 

He's revered by many Pakistanis for converting jehad into

 

a weapon against Russians in Afghanistan. Lt Gen (retd)

 

Hamid Gul, former chief of the Inter-Services Intelligence

 

(ISI), is also credited with drawing up the blueprint of

 

insurgency in Kashmir. This General Zia-ul-haq

 

confidante may be removed from the rough-and tumble of

 

contemporary Pakistani politics, but he claims that he still

 

inspires thousands of Pakistanis to join the jehad, this

 

time in Kashmir. AASHA KHOSA spoke to him in his

 

sprawling house in Askari, on the outskirts of

 

Rawalpindi.

 

 

Q:Should India and Pakistan keep Kashmir

 

on the backburner and patch up in the larger interests

 

of development of the region?

 

 

A:I agree that undivided India was a prosperous society.

 

Together, we could regain that glory. For instance,

 

friendship between India and Pakistan could result in a

 

short-cut route to Europe. But what comes in the way is

 

Kashmir, and only India can help there.

 

 

Q:One feeling in India is that Pakistan won't stop its

 

jehad even if Kashmir were offered to it on a platter,

 

since it is posited that Pakistan was created for

 

Muslims and India for Hindus.

 

 

A:Pakistan has been created for Islam and not for Muslims.

 

An Islamic state is a state where the Islamic order prevails.

 

It does not necessarily mean that We (Pakistan) need to

 

divide India. There are many myths, one of which is that the

 

two-nation theory must be demolished. It's believed that we

 

(Pakistan) as a nation exist only because of the two nation

 

theory. Thus, if there is fear on the Indian side, there is

 

greater fear in Pakistan that India is out to destroy it.

 

 

Q:But isn't India in a defensive posture? Even during

 

the Kargil war, we refused to go on the offensive and

 

transgress the LOC.

 

 

 

A:I wish this decision (to go on the offensive) had been taken

 

at that time. Let's finish this business (Kashmir) once for all.

 

Either we make peace of we fight it out.

 

 

Q:A new thinking has started among Kashmiris that an

 

independent Kashmir is a viable solution. Would

 

Pakistan be comfortable with this decision?

 

 

A:INDIA will lose the entire game if an independent Kashmir

 

is allowed to exist. Independent Kashmir means the

 

fragmentation of India, since there are around 15 separatist

 

movements going on there. China will also veto an

 

independent Kashmir, since they would face problems in

 

Sianking, Tibet and Taiwan. Pro-independent people are

 

more dangerous to the interests of both the countries. It is

 

better that we stick to the UN resolution, which is in

 

complete harmony with the sub-continental division.

 

 

I know that world powers want Kashmir to be independent.

 

Maybe they don't want Ladakh, northern areas of Pakistan

 

and even Jammu. Western powers have interests in

 

containing China and a free Kashmir would give them a

 

foothold in the Valley.

 

 

 

Q:What have been Pakistan's gains and losses in its

 

decade-long support to Kashmiri insurgents?

 

 

A:WE have gained a lot because our offensive continues.

 

This is a psychological and political offensive. The Indian

 

army is fully trapped and is vulnerable. Therefore, Pakistan

 

enjoys relative security.

 

 

Q:Your tactics of death by thousand cuts (to the enemy)

 

continues...

 

 

 

A:Yes, this was my strategy in Afghanistan and it's the same

 

in India. There's still time for India to escape the situation. In

 

five years, the situation will get far more dangerous.

 

 

Q:Isn't jehad causing problems for Pakistan as well?

 

 

A:BUT what else do we have? You (India) keep bullying a

 

smaller country like Pakistan. By the way, the same jehad

 

was eulogised by Americans at one point in time. I was

 

quite a darling at that time of the world powers.

 

Mujahideens too were darlings at Western airports. But

 

now, we realise that they were being used.

 

 

Q:What is Pakistan's current equation with the US?

 

 

A:The people of Pakistan have distanced themselves from

 

the US. Indians, though, are experimenting with western

 

powers. But how long will it last? American is far too

 

domineering, and I don't think India is going to take it as

 

easy as Pakistan did.

 

 

Q:Did Pakistan gain at all from its involvement in

 

Afghanistan, apart from a gun culture and social

 

unrest?

 

 

A:WE couldn't handle the situation. The Americans moved in

 

too quickly, and created a situation where people like me

 

had no role. Now, I'm making attempts to consolidate the

 

fallout of our achievements in Afghanistan on my own.

 

But we haven't given up on Afghanistan. We are trying to

 

unite the warring Afghan factions. Morarji Desai, in fact,

 

was a sagacious man. He did not approve of Russia's

 

invasion of Afghanistan. But subsequent Indian leaders

 

failed to appreciate the situation in which Pakistan found

 

itself. History tells you that any Central Asian power that has

 

crossed the Oxus river has ended up fighting battles in

 

Panipat. Had we not contained the Russians, India would

 

have lost far more.

 

 

Q:How many years do you give yourself on Kashmir?

 

 

A:Very soon, if India does not heed our advice. Give

 

Kashmiris the right of self-determination; if not, let India

 

finish off Pakistan. Because as long as Pakistan exists, the

 

problem of Kashmir will keep burning. No government in

 

Pakistan can afford to give up Kashmir. Therefore, we must

 

talk directly about things which bother both countries in the

 

settlement of Kashmir. Pakistan too should be ready to

 

give self-rule to Kashmir.

 

 

2000 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay)Ltd.