Preaching to Muslims ... Vrin's Question

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Preaching to Muslims ... Vrin's Question

> Sun, 11 Nov 2001 01:02:18 -0800

>

> HARI BOL PRABHUJI !

>

> Please accept my humble obeisances.

 

Vrin's question: What is yr response to a sincere muslim

that believes Jesus is not God but is a Prophet?

>

> Orthodox Muslims consider the very idea that ALLAH

> could have expansions or

> incarnations (even 'partial' or 'empowered') to be

> HARUM or bhasphemy.

> Under sharia / Muslim law, this idea is so

> abominable, that it is punished

> with death. Mohammed and all orthodox Muslims

> rejected Jesus as ANY KIND OF

> 'INCARNATION' OR PERSON OF THE GODHEAD, BECAUSE THEY

> TOTALLY REJECTED AND

> DAMNED THE VERY IDEA OF A PLURALITY OF PERSONS IN A

> GODHEAD, OR EXPANSIONS

> OR INCARNATIONS OF ANY KIND OR DEGREE.

>

> Therefore the issue is not whether Jesus is God, a

> Person of the Godhead, or

> Incarnation of any kind.

> The problem is the radically simple monolatry of

> Fundamentalist Islam, in

> which it is absolutely denied, ON THE BASIS OF

> MOHAMMED'S KORANIC REVELATION

> that ALLAH has any expansions or incarnations, or

> Feminine Shakti. Beings

> are all created, with no 'part and parcel' spirit in

> them who has come from

> GODHEAD. There is no HOLY SPIRIT either. There is

> no Universal Savior from

> sin.

> Orthodox Muslim Clerics are not like the priests of

> any other Bhakti

> religious tradition. They are LAWYERS and JUDGES.

> A mainstream Muslim

> cleric is an expert on ISLAMIC LAW, like when to

> chop a person's hand off

> for theft, or when to issue a fatwa sentence of

> death against them for

> blasphemy.

> No Mainstream Muslim cleric 'takes the sins' of

> anyone.

>

> The only exceptions to the above are in some Shi'a

> and Sufi related sects,

> which have been influenced by early contact with

> Catholic Hermits in Egypt

> and the Middle East, and by Vishnu, Shiva, and

> Shakti Bhakti Traditions in

> India. These heterodox Muslims are a very small

> minority, but they have

> exerted a disproportionate influence in history, due

> to their centuries of

> esoteric political manipulations. The Sufis from

> the Kashmir Valley, like

> other Vaishnava influenced Sufis, are Vegetarians.

> However they are also

> mostly mayavadis. They may incorporate 'Jesus' ,

> 'Krishna' and 'Buddha'

> into their teachings, but only as previous 'prophets

> of Islam', less

> important than Mohammed, the 'Seal of the Prophets'.

> They completely

> corrupt the GITA, OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS AND

> BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES TO ADAPT

> THEM TO THE KORAN AND THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR

> 'AHMADI' MESSIAH-GURUS.

>

> So, preaching to the orthodox or heterodox Muslims

> about the Jesus or

> Krishna of bona fide Judeo-Catholic or Vaishnava

> GURU, SHASTRA and SADHU is

> in most cases useless. The best one can hope for is

> to agree that

> ultimately ALLAH is everyone's God, and that we

> should all try to live in

> peace together. Naively devotees do not realize that

> by ever uttering the

> words 'There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is

> his prophet' they at once

> 'become Muslim' and therefore subject to the sharia

> law regarding blasphemy.

> If you have once accepted / confessed / stated the

> above profession of

> faith, you MUST BE SLAIN IF YOU RECANT IT.

>

> Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu visited with the Chand

> Kazi, and convinced him,

> from his own Koranic version of the Scriptures, that

> they were both

> ultimately worshiping the SAME DEITY. But the

> 'Bible' of the Muslims is not

> that of the Jews and Christians. Like the Muslims'

> interpretation of the

> GITA, their interpretation of the Bible is totally

> heterodox.. Their

> 'Jesus' is not the Jesus of authentic historical

> Christianity, and they

> can't have any other Jesus, because it is harum to

> believe in, or to even

> HEAR ABOUT expansions or incarnations of Allah /

> God. God has no 'SECOND

> PERSON',or ability to incarnate.

>

> Because it is an offence to 'preach the intimate

> glories of the Lord to the

> faithless or unintelligent' , it is better that one

> just aggrees to aggree

> on what is not so advanced, and encourage Muslims to

> try to come more into

> the mode of Goodness, so they are less dangerous and

> likely to make great

> offences. How can they understand Jesus as THE

> SECOND PERSON OF THE

> GODHEAD, or even a 'Shatyavesha Avatara' if there is

> no such category in

> their thinking, and it is forbidden to admit one ?

>

> The Chand Kazi was an elevated soul who could

> discuss GOD with Sri Chaitanya

> Mahaprabhu. He issued an order of protection for

> Gaura-Nitai's Sankirtan

> Movement. The Sultan of Jerusalem issued a similar

> order of protection for

> St. Francis Assisi and his disciples. These orders

> WERE NECESSARY BECAUSE

> WITHOUT THEM, THE VAISHNAVAS AND CATHOLICS WOULD

> HAVE BEEN MURDERED AS

> INFIDELS OR FOR BLASPHEMY.

>

> So it is important not to romanticize the

> benevolence of Islam, because of a

> few special leaders in centuries of brutal mass

> murder. In general, it is

> dangerous to try to preach to Muslims, because it

> just requires them to obey

> their laws to kill infidels and blasphemers. They

> are actually supposed to

> do it on-the-spot if they hear the intolerable

> blasphemy that there is any

> other God besides Allah, and they interpret this to

> mean PERSONS OF THE

> GODHEAD,

> FORMS (MURTIS OR PRASADAM), 'SONS' (INCLUDING ALL OF

> US), EXPANSIONS,

> INCARNATIONS or FORMS OF SHAKTI.

>

> I have heard (or read?) somewhere that Srila

> Prabhupada would not require

> his disciples to preach in Muslim nations, and

> bestowed a special

> benediction on those who would undertake such a

> daunting, life-threatening

> task. Not only is it extremely dangerous to the

> preacher, but to anyone who

> is even suspected of having contact with them.

> Under Muslim Law for

> instance, a Muslim's house where a Christian, Jew or

> Idolator has entered,

> can be burned down with everyone in it. Apostates

> can be crucified or

> burned.

>

> In a Muslim nation (Pakistan or Afghanistan maybe) a

> Christian little girl

> gave her Muslim little friend a real Bible, and

> somehow the little Muslim

> girlfriend was found out and executed for her

> childish love of Jesus. Then

> the Christian child was arrested for her Muslim

> Girlfrend's MURDER !!!!! for

> telling her about Jesus . The last i heard, she was

> still awaiting a very

> public trial for this crime against The Prophet and

> Islam. They wanted to

> make an example out of her to stop all blasphemous

> 'missionary activity'.

> The Christian women jailed under the taliban for

> preaching at their relief

> work stations are under the same threat of the death

> penalty. For years i

> used to get regular mailings from the VOICE OF THE

> MARTYRS, with the names

> of Christians being held under threat of torture and

> death in Muslim

> nations. This organization worked with The Campaign

> for Human Rights,

> Amnesty International, the UN and other groups to

> try to save people in

> mortal danger for their faith in Muslim countries

> and communities. The

> constant stream of inconceivable stories about

> atrocities committed by 'good

> Muslims' defending the 'Honor of The Prophet' and

> Islam is unimaginable.

> Even people are not safe from this in India, where

> many Muslims have been

> killed for blasphemy or converting.

>

> So what can we say, dare we say to a sincere Muslim,

> without endangering

> their life, or our life, our the lives of both our

> families?????

>

> Brother, i don't have the answer for you. Their

> laws concerning Godhead,

> Incarnation and Jesus are the most extreme,

> repressive and immutable of all

> their insane beliefs. To challenge these beliefs is

> an automatic death

> sentence under Sharia Law. In my opinion it is

> better not to disturb such

> dangerous people, and to simply encourage them to

> try to be gentle and

> pious. If you preach to a secular or modern 'free'

> Muslim, they are still

> under the eyes of their God-brothers, who are ever

> vigilant to protect

> Muslims from conversion. I had a brief friendship

> with a Muslim in Sri

> Lanka, and it almost got us BOTH killed. That

> taught me a lesson i will

> never forget.

>

> We must pray and work for the deliverance of the

> human race, from this evil

> in the Name of God. It is not possible for anyone

> to accept the SUPREME

> PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD and believe in pure Koranic

> Mohammedanism at the same

> time. The Muslims who first joined the Hare Krishna

> Movement had to give up

> central doctrines of Mohammed's teachings to

> participate. Their spiritual

> and civil leader, the Chand Kazi was 'converted' to

> a form of

> Vaishnava-Muslim syncretic faith, before he gave the

> order protecting the

> Sankirtan Movement, and allowing Muslims to

> participate in it.

>

> Sri Chaitanya thus used the same practice for

> conversion which (contrary to

> anti-Catholic lore) has ALWAYS BEEN THE POLICY OF

> THE CATHOLIC TRADITION.

> Since the Church teaches the primacy of obediance

> and conscience, Catholic

> policy has always been NOT TO CONVERT INDIVIDUAL

> PEOPLE AGAINST THE

> RELIGIOUS AND FILIAL IMPULSE / CONSCIENCE WHICH IS

> THE BEST PART IN THEM,

> BUT RATHER TO CONVERT THEIR LEADERS, SO THAT THE

> MASSES CAN COME IN WITH

> THEIR CONSCIENCE AND OBEIDIANCE INTACT. This is why

> St Patrick concentrated

> on earning the respect of and 'converting' the High

> Druid, instead of trying

> to one-by-one convert the Irish masses. When the

> High Druid accepted St.

> Patrick as his guru, then the peoples of the Isles

> 'became' Catholic. Irish

> Catholicism therefore retained Celtic spirituality,

> which, greatly enriched

> the Church with its unique spiritual genius. The

> mass 'conversion' of

> tribals in Central and South America was not at the

> edge of the Spainards'

> and Portugeses' swords, it was because of devotion

> to OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE.

> Millions embraced Catholicism out of love for OUR

> LADY in one of the most

> astounding spontaneous 'conversions' in all of world

> history. Catholicism

> became the religion of ETHIOPIA when the royal

> family embraced it. Egypt

> was A CATHOLIC NATION BEFORE THE MUSLIM INVASION,

> because the Egyptians

> embraced THE ALEXANDRIAN RITE AS THEIR OWN SERAPEAN

> TRADITION.

>

> Such is the only hope for the world, that we can

> somehow reach open hearted

> great-souled leaders like the Chand Kazi and Sultan

> of Jerusalem, the High

> Druid of Ireland, King of Ethiopia and others who

> have brought their people

> out of the lessor unities of nationalism,

> ethnocentrism and sectarianism,

> into the greater communions of 'catholic' or

> UNIVERSAL SISTERHOOD AND

> BROTHERHOOD.

>

> May we carry on the non sectarian Mission of Sri

> Chaitanya and Sri

> Nityananda Rama with this in mind...if we convince

> the pious, intelligent

> and powerful, then the masses will follow with the

> blessings and protection

> of these leaders ! The masses will be united with

> their filial piety /

> obediance and consciences unviolated and intact !

> Whole cultures can THUS

> be restored to unity in the one human family this

> way, with their sacred

> traditions intact, and humanity can peacefully grow

> towards unity in

> GODHEAD once again!

>

> MAY IT BE !

>

> AMEN AUM and HARE KRISHNA !

>

> your aspiring servant, Bhakti Ananda

>