Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 RAM DASS brings his wisdom and inspiration to The Prophets Conference ~ Monterey: Renewal. Taking place in the springtime beauty of Asilomar Conference Grounds during the weekend of March 29-31, 2002, this celebration of life energy brings together some of the finest minds of our time to help us find a freshness of understanding and an uplifting of our souls during this time of unprecedented challenge. (http://www.greatmystery.org/montereyconference.html) More than thirty years ago, an entire generation sought a new way of life, looked for fulfillment and meaning in a way no one had before. This was the Woodstock Generation, and one man, the man who was "there" before everyone else, led them on their quest: Ram Dass. He changed the way we thought about life; he left his teaching post at Harvard to embody the role of spiritual seeker; he showed us all how to begin to find peace within ourselves, in one of the greatest spiritual classics of this century, the two-million-copy bestseller Be Here Now. Now we find we again need Ram Dass! An Interview with RAM DASS by Stephen Marshall - Guerrilla News Network (http://www.GuerrillaNews.com) The Prophets Conference New York City: Techniques of Discovery The Cathedral of Saint John The Divine - May 2001 http://www.greatmystery.org/readingroom.html Steven Marshall: OK. We'll begin. First of all, let me say that we're really honored to have you with us, in body and in Spirit. Maybe you can begin by stating your name and where you are right now, on Earth. RD: My name is Ram Dass and I am at the Prophets Conference at Saint John's in New York City. SM: That's cool. And we're in the moment, that's for sure. Now Baba, this video is for young people and I'd like to start off by concentrating on some of the key principles that you have focused on in your writing and teachings. The first one that comes to mind is probably the most well known and, perhaps, the most important. 'Be here now'. Can you describe what that sentence means, and why it is an important message for us all? RD: Be Here Now, which was the title of one of my books, is a spiritual method. When you are in the moment, the moment is it's like baklava it's got planes of consciousness just this moment … this moment… this moment. Just take the moment and go into it and you go into a place in your own being where you are God not the only one we are all God. It's in the Hindu religion, we say that is the atman, and you go fully into the atman, when you go into the moment. You know life is full of moments the birds singing, the traffic moving… atman. SM: Wonderful. One aspect of your teaching has been to convey the importance of the journey. Increasingly, in our modern lives, we have come to believe that to take any time off, to go anywhere other than just towards material success or stability would be detrimental to our well being. That we will lose step with reaching our maximum potential. Can you talk about the importance of the journey and what it means for an individual to depart from things that they know and are sure of? How important is that? RD: We get into such routines in life and in the routines are melodramas. And they are very captivating for our consciousness. And when you do your routines, your consciousness does a dance around the routine, thinking this routine is in time and space. But your consciousness is outside of time and space. So you can you exist beyond time and space and yet your melodrama is going on in space and time. I think that we, from the moment we are born, that everybody calls you and treats you as your body, as your personality, and it would be nice if somebody would treat you as a soul, because you are a soul and I am a soul. And we can be soul friends. SM: Throughout your time as a spiritual traveler, you have, at times, altered your mind. You have gone into altered states, you have visited places, which may have been fearful for you. What is the benefit for us to escape, even if only momentarily, what we consider to be ordinary states? RD: The benefit from escaping into another plane from your daily routine is you get a relativity. You get a perceptual stance on your life, which is 'witnessing'. Witnessing. And you start to witness your life. And the witness doesn't go the trip. The witness just witnesses. And then you can get you can climb up into the witness. "Boy, is he something look at that." And when you live on two planes at once, you've got a chance of getting free of your box the box of your personality, physical being. Everybody seems to be in their boxes and nobody is knowing from inside, like they're chicken - and nobody wants to go out except a few people. Are you one? SM: I hope so. But let me ask you a further question: What is it about the world that makes people afraid to go outside the box? Have we built a paradigm in which it's beneficial to stay inside the box? You know what I'm saying? RD: Are you asking like what is fearful about mysticism? SM: That's partially it yes. But more importantly, what is it about the world we live in now which makes mysticism a fearful experience? Maybe you could answer both of those questions… RD: Well I think that with the lockstep of society it's tough to make the jump from being in the lockstep but I've got to answer your question: Why should I get fearful? Because psychiatry has characterized altered states of consciousness as 'We are crazy'. And I am… no I'm not crazy. And I've used altered states material like meditation, like drugs, like my guru… and it's interesting - when a society bars off the pseudo-pods that are creative pseudo-pods in the society and they say, oh we can't deviate from our lockstep. So they don't. SM: And so this generation coming up now, who have the benefit of having read and watched the movies and heard the music of your very famous generation's experience, but who don't have the tools necessarily or even the inclination to take time off and do challenge the societal rules as you did, what would you tell them that, perhaps, you learned from that time? The mistakes and, of course, the successes… What should be different this time around if we could imagine that we had another shot at it? RD: Well I think you can study the 60s as a really creative time in the culture. And you can study how it was compassionate, it was loving, it was wise, and it was moral… like what happened during the Vietnam War - what happened in the United States that was a moral thing we did. I think that Rock n' Roll gave the message. The message was just those things. Now you are asking what does a young person do in this day and age… they should seek out ecstasy in their own now I don't mean ecstasy the drug just ecstasy in their own life and use religion, I think. Religion could be a path… prayer can be a path… beads can be a path… seeing people as souls is a path… I think that your relationships are such an exquisite path take any relationship your parents, your significant other, your children, your politician, and really start to look at them as souls. We are souls. We are incarnating in these we are beings who incarnate in attachments, motives, attitudes… and you've got to see them for what they are. They are like like that. You know? SM: Yes. Yes. Now let me ask you this before we get into the subject of karma and all that… For many of us, the world exists as a system of lives, of individual lives that make up humanity. But, can we look at mankind as a being, which is, itself, growing and maturing? And if that's the case, where do you think we are in our evolution as a species? Because, I guess, we all hope to think that in the coming years there could be something a paradigm shift perhaps something… RD: Well, it's an evolutionary vision I have because we've certainly come a long way through our communication, just as this is communication. And these are communications with the entire society chipping in. It's not just a few people, it's all of it. And when we communicate in this way, the communication channels - like television, movies, radio, newspapers, magazines, books those communicate between people and are creating a very broad acceptance. We are an 'us'. Us the world. And… after that step of evolution, another one will be… there will be a linking up of our awarenesses, and the hard drive for that is in our brain. So that the next step of the evolutionary path will be this communication within everybody and that will be exquisite. SM: Nice. Looking now at the concept of reality the idea has been presented that we create our own reality. How would you explain to someone the idea that we have the power to create that which we experience as opposed to, what most people believe, that it's inflicted on us? Do we have that power? RD: Well our minds create our realities. Like, two people can go to a show and one thought it was wonderful and one, they didn't like it. Their minds are templates through which the external reality gets to their awareness by having gone through that template. As far as the creativity in life, we are - I think we have different `I's: I ego, I soul and then one that the Easterners feel is I number 3 and the Quakers speak of the quiet voice of God in the individual. And all we have to do is identify with that `I' in our consciousness. SM: Beautiful. Identifying with that `I' in our consciousness must be one of the most vital aspects of our journey on Earth. RD: It is the vital aspect. Because all the other motives are ego motives. Our souls go towards that identification with it all. Identification with the one. In this country, with identification of God. And that identification is the creative moment. It's where our creativity comes out of. When I am creating, God is creating through me. SM: OK. Now when we look at our culture, which is increasingly becoming spectatorial, increasingly passive in front of the television and the other stimuli, is this limitation of creativity dangerous to us as a society? Do we need to become more proactive or creative? RD: I don't think what people do is… I am 70 years old. And I look out the window every day. You wouldn't call that dangerous. And I turn on the television and I watch Law & Order, and I don't feel it's dangerous. These are all things I am focusing on, which my spirit consumes. When I watch television or watch people on the street, I can see diversity and the way God has produced diverse manifestations… and it's no end of wonder to me… SM: So it's important to have a balance between consumption and creation… RD: Consumption and creation… Well people, consume very creatively in this society! SM: Is there such a thing as food for the soul? Can the soul be nourished from outside? RD: Food for the soul… Well, our incarnations are foods for our souls just what you are doing each day. And in the BhagavadGita, Krishna says, "God says do what you do but offer it as flowers at my feet." I mean, flowers to God. You are going to the store and that going to the store is a spiritual enterprise. It's not just getting peanut butter. It's getting close to God. And if you think of your life as… like I think of my stroke, it got me close to God. And I see stroke victims look victimized and I just don't feel victimized. It got me close to God SM: As someone who always radiates life, at a certain point, there must have been a feeling of mortality that struck you after it happened. And yet you are one of the people who have always made me feel immortal. That it is crucial to sense your immortal self. Did the stroke bring you closer to mortality and its necessity? Could you talk about that? RD: Sure, sure. It gave me all the people around me felt that I was dying of the stroke. I didn't, by the way. But the stroke it was a deeper thing than I deal with day by day. And that depth made me I called the stroke 'fierce grace' because it gets down in and I… When it happened, it definitely captured my attention. SM: That's what I wanted to jump to next… In some sense we might say that the world that we live in now needs a little fierce grace. RD: Yes, yes, SM: Can you talk about that? RD: I am a part of a lot of projects that invite people to sit by a deathbed at a hospice and things like that. Just recognizing that people die frames your life. Castaneda's guru said, "Keep death on your left shoulder." We haven't. Television pictures death, but it doesn't do anything. It's…. not manicured but… SM: Sanitized? RD: Yeah, they sanitize death and it doesn't do anything. SM: So in that realm - of a paradigm shift - can a culture go through a death? RD: Oh boy… can a culture go through a death? It's a death of ideas… ideas, which are making that culture operate. But then there are deaths… of cultures. Africa with its AIDS problem, the breaking up of Russia, and the death there…There are cultures and they are facing death. But you're speaking from the - that the culture has a death… SM: And rebirth perhaps… RD: When enough of the citizens of a culture are not supporting the ideas of the culture, that's it for the culture… that's it. And so what we as citizens do, through that third I, we get an intuitive sense of the truth and what is right. And when the government does not when that's too big a gap - then we vote. And I still think the vote is the strongest thing we have… And that means Florida included. SM: Let me ask you this: Many teachers use the term 'realized being'. Becoming a realized being those two words…what do they mean? Should we aspire to becoming a realized being? RD: Yeah, you should. A realized being in each of us is ego, soul and number 3, which is God inside of us. And we are busy identifying with ego. I can do this and da da da. And a realized being is somebody that identifies with number 3. Then their vantage point is that of God and that's not bad. Not bad. SM: Some would say some who are very much in their ego, who tend to have power now in this plane would say, 'well that's a megalomaniacal view that it's a proto-spiritual view that's probably influenced by drugs'. There's always this reaction to visionaries and spiritualists who claim to have reached that state of 3 or inner Godliness. Do you agree that, historically, there has been a negative view by political leaders of the shamanic path or the spiritual path that is not institutional? RD: Well, yes. Because this represents a form of power that's not worldly power. And worldly power - politicians love it and people that want money love it, and it's my guru he had powers that powerful people wished they had… wished they had. These are miracles but they are functioning in another plane. And anybody that realizes that plane, that is a realized person. And the realized person they march to a different drummer. And that upsets society. SM: I have two more questions. First, it has been said by some that if Christ were to come back today, he and the Church would have a very strained relationship. One of the most poignant moments of reading Be Here Now was, I remember coming across the picture of Christ and his hand and you were like, 'At that moment he is not mad, he is thinking 'I'm out of here tomorrow' and all he has is compassion for the person nailing him to the cross. It was so mind-shattering to see it this way. That Christ would have had such compassion. Of course! What is the role of compassion in the realized being and is it lacking in the current religious hierarchy? RD: Well, number 3 `I' that has subjective knowledge the compassion at that level I can feel towards another being. I can see how they feel from inside of them. Most of our society works from the outside in. But compassion is the inside out. And that is and Christ was a number 3. He had compassion for everybody. He was everybody. He was everybody. And that compassion is not extant in this culture. A lot of people say they have compassion. That's ego talking. But that depth of compassion, no … no. SM: Beautiful. Last thing is the difference between karma and dharma, and the whole concept of the paths forward and backward and inward. Can you just talk about what the word dharma means and why is it relevant to me as an individual… why should I understand this notion? RD: Our dharma is what we can do or what we are ready to do to go to the One, to God. Our karma as souls, we have lots of causal things that bring us to this moment. That's all karma. And then if I look at my scene, I'm in this wheelchair and a stroke that's my karma. How quickly can my karma be made into my dharma? How quickly does the sickness get to be the step that will take me to God? Thank you Baba. Thank you! THE PROPHETS CONFERENCE ~ MONTEREY: RENEWAL A Celebration of Life Energy taking place in the truly magnificent setting of ASILOMAR CONFERENCE GROUNDS, Monterey, California during the weekend of MARCH 29-31, 2002, is bringing together a most wonderful and powerful visiting faculty made up of: RAM DASS, BARBARA MARX HUBBARD, RIANE EISLER, STANISLAV GROF, FRED ALAN WOLF, GREGG BRADEN, PAUL RAY & SHERRY ANDERSON, BROOKE MEDICINE EAGLE, PETER RUSSELL, ROBERT ANTON WILSON, HANK WESSELMAN, RUSSELL TARG, NICKI SCULLY, KEVIN RYERSON, with kirtan by JAI UTTAL with Geoffrey Gordon. The initial tuition of $179 for the first 100 registrants is now sold out. The tuition now available is $245 for the next 200 registrants after which it will increase to $295. Full information is linked at http://www.greatmystery.org/montereyconference.html. THE INITIATION IN THE MAYAN CONSCIOUSNESS with calendar timekeeper Mayan Elder Hunbatz Men and his Mayan ceremonial leaders is taking place at the ancient Mayan sacred sites in the Yucatan, and Merida, Mexico during the week of December 3 - 9, 2001. This is an outstanding life-changing program, especially needed for this time in our history, and you are strongly encouraged to attend. You will find full information on this powerful event linked from http://www.greatmystery.org/mayaninitiation.html. --- Following some initial editing difficulty and delay, audiotapes are now available for the New York City (audio & video) and Victoria, Canada (audio) conferences. Tapes for the Florida Keys conference will be available soon. Information is linked at http://www.greatmystery.org/tapes.html. --- Thank you all for supporting this work by passing along this message to your personal email list and to your member lists and groups. 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