Guest guest Posted July 15, 2002 Report Share Posted July 15, 2002 >"ganapa vijai" >gvvijai_iaf (AT) hotmail (DOT) com >Fwd: Re: [HinduThought] Frawley on Witzel's vanishing ocean >Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:58:23 +0000 > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here "ganapa vijai" gvvijai gvvijai_iaf Fwd: Re: [HinduThought] Frawley on Witzel's vanishing ocean Tue, 16 Jul 2002 04:58:23 +0000 >"MR N S RAJARAM" >HinduThought >, , >CC: , "RAJNI CHANDRAN" ,, ,"Sumita Chakraborty" >Re: [HinduThought] Frawley on Witzel's vanishing ocean >Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:33:18 +0530 > > >WITZEL'S VANISHING OCEAN > >David Frawley > > >If one can interpret the Rigveda in the Witzel sense, ignoring the obvious >and logical meaning of terms, then there is no telling what the Veda can be >turned into. > > >THE TERM samudra is a common term for ocean in Sanskrit going back to the >Rigveda, >the same way as it is a common term for fire or for water. Yet Michael >Witzel, >in his recent Open Page (June 25) response to an article of mine on the >Vedic period, would have us believe that in the Rigveda does not mean the >sea, which he claims the Vedic people had never seen. This is in spite of >the fact that is mentioned over 150 times in the text. It is frequently >referred to along with ships (nava), waves (urmi) and the confluence of >greater >rivers like Sindhu and Sarasvati which did reach the sea. On this basis, >Witzel also claims that the God Varuna, who is called the lord of in the >Rigveda, cannot mean the lord of the ocean as he is in later Hindu thought! > >Witzel mentions that the Vedic samudra is mainly the ocean of the air >(antariksha). Such a metaphor of the sky as an ocean is common among >maritime peoples and would be expected from the Vedic rishis who were >also poets (kavis). It does not disprove that the Vedic people knew >of the actual ocean but only that it was the basis of their world- >view. > >Witzel, who claims to be a Vedic scholar, should know that all the Vedic >deities have three forms relative to the three worlds of the Earth, >Atmosphere and Heaven. The ocean is no different. The Rigveda also speaks of >heavenly (the sun) and atmospheric (lightning) forms of or fire, which >cannot be used to deny that the Vedic people ever saw an earthly fire! >Similarly, all the main Vedic Gods of Indra, Agni, Soma and Surya have >oceanic symbolisms. No one would use the ocean as such a great image if they >had no real knowledge of it. > > >Saltiness of the sea > > > >Witzel claims that the Rigveda doesn't mention the saltiness of the sea or >the tides. The Rigveda doesn't mention the salt at all, even relative to >Salt range in the Panjab, in which region Witzel would put the Vedic people. >However, the Vedas do mention in a hymn to Varuna, how the rishi Vasishta >was struck with thirst in the middle of the waters (RV VII.89.4), suggesting >the inability to drink the salty water of the sea. The Rigveda frequently >mentions the waviness of the ocean (RV IV.58, 1,11) and the back and forth >movement of waves experienced while in a ship on the sea (RV VII.88.3). It >refers to how the Maruts, the wind-gods, bring the waters of the rain from >the ocean (RV V.55.5). It mentions how Soma or Indu (the moon) stirs the >ocean with the winds (RV IX.84.4). > > >One wonders how Witzel himself would translate such common Vedic statements >as `' meaning `as rivers to the sea.' Perhaps he would render it as `as >rivers flowing into the atmosphere'! Or perhaps in his view, sindhu doesn't >mean river either but a current of air. Even Griffith, a Nineteenth century >colonial scholar who tried to foster this idea that does not mean ocean, >nevertheless regularly translates the term as ocean or sea in his version of >the Rigveda. Anything else does violence to the text! > >Witzel would place the Vedic people in Panjab around 1500 BCE as migrants >from Afghanistan, which requires that they cross the rivers of the Panjab, >yet he would have them regard the Panjab rivers as or their `sea', having >them fail to note that such rivers do flow south, which is not that hard for >anyone to observe, particularly during the rainy season. This is the only >type of earthly ocean Witzel would allow the Vedic people to know. > >He also brings the Vedic people into the Sarasvati region (Kurukshetra) in >the post-Harappan era after the Sarasvati river dried up and its many cities >were already long abandoned. He fails to explain why the Vedic people would >make the Sarasvati, the easternmost Panjab river, then devoid of water, as >their central and immemorial homeland, describing this river that flowed >west of the Yamuna (RV X.75.1) as a great river pure in its course from the >mountains to the sea (RV VII.95.5)! > >Witzel fails to see any urban side to the Rigveda that would connect it with >an urban culture like the Harappan. However, the term for city (a term that >obviously means city in Greek thought, ie. Pura = Polis) is common >throughout the text. Both the Vedic people and their enemies have a hundred >cities (, RV VI.48.8; RV II.14.6). There are also references to temples or >buildings with a thousand pillars (, RV II.41.5; RV V.62.6) or a thousand >doors (, RV VII.88.5). > > >Greater continuity > > > >The real reason beyond Witzel's statements is that the maritime nature of >Vedic culture refutes his interpretation of the Rigveda as a product of >migrants from Central Asia. In this regard, Witzel, like a fossil in time, >is just carrying on Nineteenth century European scholarship, ignoring the >new evidence of the Sarasvati river, the many new Harappan sites and the >much greater continuity for Indian civilisation that has been discovered >since. > >If one can interpret the Rigveda in the Witzel sense, ignoring the obvious >and logical meaning of terms, then there is no telling what the Veda can be >turned into. There are many more inaccuracies in his statements and in his >depictions of my views, but I think this is enough for the reader to get a >sense of what he represents. > >Today there is a new Vedic scholarship that understands the Vedic connection >with Indian civilisation and honours Vedic spirituality. This is the Vedic >scholarship of the future as we move into a new planetary age that >recognises our spiritual heritage as a species — which India as a >civilization has preserved perhaps better than any other country through >such great teachings as the Vedas. > >___________ > > > > > > > >------------------------ Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Save on REALTOR Fees >http://us.click./Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/0EHolB/TM >---~-> > > >HinduThought > > > >Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.