Saragrahi Article, kshatriyas, gay significant others etc.

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HARE KRISHNA ! SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA 1

 

(PLEASE EXCUSE CAPS AS THEY ARE EASIER FOR ME TO SEE.)

 

DEAR BHAKTA TRAVELER,

 

SINCE I AGREE WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA AND AM SPEAKING TO OTHERS THAT I

ASSUME ALSO AGREE WITH HIM, I DID NOT FEEL IT NECESSARY TO TELL THOSE

ALREADY KNOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS, WHAT THOSE INSTRUCTION WERE AND

ARE. IF I WAS CHALLENGING SRILA PRABHUPADA OR HIS AUTHORITY IN ANY

WAY, THEN I WOULD SURELY HAVE TO PROVE MY CASE AS AN ADVERSARY OF HIS

TEACHINGS.

 

MORE COMMENTS BELOW...

 

vediculture, "Caturbahu dasa Bhakti"

<bhaktatraveler> wrote:

>

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai

>

> Dear Bhakta Ananda Gosvami:

> The article you reference is very nice as a study comparing

> similarities in other cultures to ancient Vedic or Aryan origins.

It

> appeared very scholarly, well researched and eloquently presented,

> though I am a layman on such matters having no formal education on

> Greek history or English composition.

> But on the matter of studying Srila Prabhupada's vani and

> ascertaining the correct siddhanta by taking in all his recorded

vani

> on any subject Prabhupada covers, I conceder myself well aquatinted

> with him and wholly embrace his dream for the Krsna Consciousness

> movement concerning Daivi-Varnasrama-Dharma. I saw no vani or

> siddhanta as it would directly apply to Prabhupada's movement

> contained in your response to my question.

 

WHAT RESPONSE TO ANY RECENT QUESTION OF YOUR'S? DID YOU ASK ME A

QUESTION SOMEWHERE UNDER EITHER OF YOUR NAMES POSTED HERE ? OR ARE

YOU REFERING TO SOME CHALLENGE YOU MADE TO ME LAST YEAR ? PLEASE

CLARIFY WHAT QUESTION YOU THINK I AM RESPONDING TO, AS I HAVE WRITTEN

NOTHING THIS YEAR AS A RESPONSE TO YOU THAT I KNOW OF.

 

Yes, you used what you

> learned from Srila Prabhupada and through study of this ancient

Greek

> history can show the root culture coming from Vedic times, but

where

> is the siddhanta attained from the instructions of the spiritual

> master?

 

THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY ALMOST CONSTANT INVOCATION OF THE HOLY NAME,

AND IN MY CENT-PER-CENT DEVOTION TO SERVING THE CAUSE OF SRI SRI GURU

AND GAURANGA. THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY SERVICE TO SRI SRI GURU AND

GAURANGA FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AND MY FAITHFULNESS TO MY SANNYAS VOWS

FOR OVER TEN YEARS.

 

This is the question. Though I did enjoy your paper as a

> comparison, it is no better than trivia in light with Srila

> Prabhupada's vani for ISKCON to embrace DVD and the regulative

> principles contained there in. This is the siddhanta question, what

> is your understanding of these instructions?

 

WHERE HAVE I EVER CHALLENGED ANY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S INSTRUCTIONS,

OR DEVIATED FROM HIS SERVICE, FOR YOU TO TAKE SUCH A TONE WITH ME ?

 

 

> I have a problem or question with the assumption that just

because

> a person is in one of the fields you mention that they are

> automatically included as qualified ksatriyas by Vedic standards.

 

I NEVER CALLED THEM QUALIFIED KSHATRIYAS. I SAID THAT SRILA

PRABHUPADA AFFIRMED THROUGHOUT HIS TEACHINGS THAT THE 4 VARNAS ARE

NATURAL DIVISIONS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. I SAID THAT PERSONS WITH CERTAIN

ATTRIBUTES OF NATURE, CERTAIN QUALITIES DESCRIBE THE KSHATRIYA NATURE

AS OPPOSED TO THE BRAHMANA, VAISHYA OR SUDRA.

 

> This is not by guna(quality) and karma(work). I was in the army and

I

> have to say 99.9% of the personnel are sudra and less by habit and

> personal character or lack there of. No were near ksatriya. Push

> button military and war perpetuated by the greedy vaisya class.

> Supported by voted in legislators from the mleccha and candala

> population of a country emulating a demoncracy form of government

> bent on fascistic enslavement of the world. Gunda, mindless violent

> servant to corrupt leadership. As are the police forces.

 

APPARENTLY YOU KNEW 99.9% OF THE PERSONNEL IN THE ARMY ! YOU MUST BE

A VERY POWERFUL BEING !

>

>

> soldiers, search-and-rescue, police,

> > prison guards, border patrol, firefighters, EMTs, hazmat

> responders/

> > bomb squads, undercover agents/ intelligence officers, security

> > officers, etc.

>

>

> This is not a list of ksatriyas. Undercover agents/intelligence

> officers are of the spy category and not of King/ksatriya

character.

 

WELL I SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT SRI KRISHNA AND ARJUNA PLAYED SPYING ON

THE PEOPLE, AND IN FACT THE SCRIPTURES AND HISTORY OF THE EAST

RECOUNT MANY STORIES OF GREAT PERSONAGES UNDER-COVER AND SPYING.

SUCH ACTIVITY TAKES INCREDIBLE BRAVERY AND SELF-CONTROL, BOTH

QUALITIES OF A KSHATRIYA.

 

> They are assistants, information givers, sudras that are overtly

> underhanded and sneaky by profession, dishonest. Security officers

> are also in the less intelligent mode, another name for

gaurd/patrol

> person. EMT are vaidya, physicians and said in the Caitanya

> Caritamrta to be sudra, Adi 17.18p. Hasmat is technical reaction to

a

> given occurrence of contamination to an environment, technician,

> sudra. Border patrol is again servant to the higher class ksatriya

> order and has no ability by dint of his work to claim the

> intellectual qualifications of that higher varna. Ditto to prison

> guards, so many prisoners would be killed anyway because of the

> Bhagavad-Gita Ch 1 text 36, six aggressors are to be killed at

once.

> This killing is the job of a ksatriya not a guard. Though guarding

> prisoners is under the ksatriya, execution of that activity will

not

> need be done necessarily by ksatriyas, the cadre can do it

> effectively. Police, firefighters and military are the closest but

> still not necessarily by occupation do they have the ability(guna)

to

> lead a Vedic nation like Srila Prabhupada envisions nor do you

speak

> of such lofty goals like Srila Prabhupada does.

 

IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT MY LETTER ABOUT A SUPPORT GROUP WAS

ADDRESSED TO VAISHNAVAS, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? WHY ARE YOU IN AN

ATTACKING MODE ? I WAS WRITING TO DEVOTEES ABOUT FORMING A DEVOTEE

SUPPORT GROUP FOR PERSONS OF THE BASIC KSHATRIYA NATURE, WHICH YOU

DON'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF.

>

> You said:

> Our 'significant others', wives and children

> also need the support of a Vaishnava community that understands

their

> military or intervention-driven 'on-duty' called-up-to-serve

> lifestyle.

>

> I hope that 'significant others' does not include homosex. Srila

> Prabhupada says that homosex is less that Aryan, that even sudra

has

> charter and some qualification. He never accepted homosex to be in

> Vedic society nor ISKCON proper. All that have fallen to this

> abominable act are outside of Vedic culture by dint of the vani of

> Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada initiated reformed people only. Not

> those that acted in nor actively identified themselves with

homosex.

> This is rejected over and over. Show evidence to the contrary from

> recorded vani to contest. The rest is very nicely explained.

>

WHERE ON EARTH, OR IN THE THREE WORLDS DID THAT COME FROM ? I DON'T

CHOOSE WHO OTHERS PICK FOR THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS ! DID I MENTION

HOMO SEX ? I AM HETEROSEXUAL BY NATURE, AND HAD GIRL FRIENDS FOR THE

MEN, OR BOY FRIENDS FOR THE WOMEN IN MIND WHEN I WROTE THAT. WHY DID

YOU THINK OF HOMOSEX ? ARE YOU OBSESSED WITH IT ? DID I SAY IT WAS MY

BUSINESS TO POLICE A KSHATRIYA SUPPORT GROUP, OR DID I SUGGEST A

MUTUAL-SUPPORT MINISTRY FOR DEVOTEES? I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH

CHOOSING OTHER PEOPLES' SIGNIFICANT OTHERS. SINCE YOU HAVE BROUGHT

UP THE ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY, I HAVE MET MANY NICE DEVOTEES WITH

SAME-SEX ATTRACTION, WHO HAVE SERVED SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA

FAITHFULLY FOR DECADES. HOW DARE YOU TO PAINT THEM ALL WITH THE SAME

DAMNING BRUSH ?

 

 

> You said:

> Among devotees in the Hare Krishna Movement,

> there are persons of the kshatriya nature. Srila Prabhupada did not

> say 'keep them out !' No. Srila Prabhupada said "establish

varnashram

> dharma".

>

> Well, actually the movement in the beginning was to be a movement

> of Brahmans that would lead the rest of society. Then Prabhupada

saw

> that the devotees were unable to over come their natures and were

> falling from that asrama and materially managing horribly. In 1974

on

> March 12 in Vrndavana Prabhupada said to include DVD inside ISKCON

> and gave a wealth of instructions in the next week and later years

> that followed as an outline that was subsequently checked,

> restrained, constrained and suppressed for many more years and not

> followed. Disqualifying the less than stelar brahminical

> representatives inside and outside the movement through complete

> neglect of the vani or guilt of administering poison vani to the

> average devotee counterfeiting the mood, falsifying information and

> distorted repression.

>

> The rest of your letter I found inspiring that someone may know

and

> understand the need and application of the ksatriya in present day

> society at large to begin turning the social heading on a Vedic

> course in line with the instructions of Krsna through the spiritual

> master, Srila Prabhupada. These are just some questions I would

like

> answered or ideas discuss in order to know with who I am speaking

and

> associating with by e-mail.

 

I HAD AN UNPLEASANT EXPERIANCE WITH YOU LAST YEAR, AND HAVE NOT

KNOWINGLY BEEN ASSOCIATING WITH YOU BY EMAIL. HAVE YOU BEEN USING

SOME OTHER NAME ?

 

Please do not mind, as a ksatriya we over

> see all four varnas and asramas. Though we do not govern the

> brahmans, we must make sure they are acting in accordance with

Guru,

> sastra and sadu honestly and are not cheaters. This is one of our

> leadership duties that takes a great deal of faithful study and is

> beyond the ability of a common guard or technician or mindless

gunda

> drone that is just there deriving pleasure from giving pain to

others

> furthering the dominating demoniac agenda of social corruption and

> atheistic degradation.

 

SO I SHOULD BE GRATEFUL THAT YOU ARE OVERSEEING ME TO MAKE SURE THAT

I AM NOT A CHEATER ? YOU ARE DOING YOUR LEADERSHIP DUTY BY BEING

INSULTING TO MANY SINCERE DEVOTEES OF A KSHATRIYA NATURE, BY

INSULTING A SANNYASI (MY SELF) AND BY ATTACKING PEOPLE OVER HOMO SEX

WHEN NOT A WORD OF IT WAS MENTIONED BY MYSELF OR ANYONE OTHER THAN

YOURSELF ? YOU ARE ACTING LIKE AN UNEDUCATED PERSON WITH NO

HUMILITY OR REGARD FOR PROPER VAISHNAVA MANNERS. GET OVER YOURSELF.

I WAS TRYING TO HELP SOME DEVOTEES. PERIOD. YOUR PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE

AND INSULTING TONE IS JUST APARADHA TO ALL THE DEVOTEES YOU SO

CASUALLY JUDGE AND CONDEMN.

>

> Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

>

> PS. Also I am concerned about your apparent personal attachment or

> identification to the ksatriya varna.

 

THANKYOU FOR YOUR 'CONCERN', BUT I AM NOT ATTACHED TO THE VARNA, IF I

WAS, I WOULDN'T HAVE SPENT SO MUCH OF MY LIFE IN STUDY AND TEACHING

AS A BRAHMANA, AND I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN SANNYAS FOR THE SAKE OF

PREACHING.

 

I KNOW THE NATURE THAT I WAS BORN WITH, AND STILL LIVE WITH EVERY

MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. I AM HONEST ABOUT MYSELF, UNLIKE MANY OTHERS

WHO ARE CHEATERS AND PRETENDING. I AM NOT CHEATING OR PRETENDING, TO

BE ANYTHING EXCEPT MY SELF, AS I AM EMBODIED AND LIVING AT THIS

MOMENT.

 

Evidentially using possessive

> language although claiming the varna of a Brahmana and the asrama

of

> sannyasa. Please explain.

>

> WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? I HAVE A KSHATRIYA NATURE. ANYONE KNOWING ME

INTIMATELY, PERSONALLY, KNOWS THIS. HOWEVER, FOR THE SAKE OF SERVING

SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA, A VAISHNAVA CAN ASSUME ANY TASK, IF SHE OR

HE IS EMPOWERED TO DO IT BY THE LORD. THUS A VAISHYA CAN SERVE

VALIANTLY AS A KSHATRIYA, OR A KSHATRIYA CAN FIGHT WITH THE PEN,

INSTEAD OF THE SWORD, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN TO DO. EVEN PERSONS

WITH A SAME-SEX ATTRACTION CAN SERVE THE LORD FAITHFULLY AND LIVE A

CHASTE LIFE, IF HE GIFTS THEM BY GRACE TO DO IT ! SINCE YOU HAVE

STUDIED SO MUCH, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT INTERSEXED PERSONS WERE PRESENT

WHEN SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU APPEARED, AND IT WAS CONSIDERED

AUSPICIOUS !

 

SO MUCH FOR YOUR HOMO PHOBIC WITCH-HUNT AMONG THE DEVOTEES. I AM A

PRACTITIONER AND ADVOCATE OF ABSOLUTE CHASTITY, ARE YOU? DO YOU EVER

HAVE SEX WITH YOUR OWN BODY (MASTURBATE ?) IF SO, THAT MAKES YOU A

HOMOSEXUAL ! I DON'T EVEN HAVE SEX WITH MY OWN BODY. CAN YOU

HONESTLY SAY THAT ? I CAN. IF YOU CAN'T, THEN YOU HAD BETTER STOP

TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT HOMO SEX ! MASTURBATION IS THE ULTIMATE ACT

OF HOMO SEX !

 

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN ABSOLUTELY CHASTE AND CONTINENT?

 

I AM GLAD THAT THERE ARE KSHATRIYAS TRYING TO KEEP CHEATING BRAHMANAS

AND SANNYASIS IN LINE, BUT WHERE WERE YOU WHEN SO MANY CHEATERS

ABUSED SO MANY DEVOTEES? THERE IS NO RECORD OF MY EVER HAVING

ABUSED ANY DEVOTEES, SO WHY DO YOU KEEP CHALLENGING ME ? GO AFTER

SOME REAL CHEATERS. I AM KEEPING MY VOWS. WHAT ABOUT YOU ?

 

THANKS FOR YOUR NICE WORDS, BUT THEY DO NOT COVER THE FACT THAT YOUR

POST IS PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE, CONCEITED AND OFFENSIVE THROUGHOUT. MAY

THE LORD BLESS YOU WITH A CHANGE OF HEART, AND SOME GENUINE

HUMILITY. I WOULD BE AFRAID TO LIVE IN A VEDIC SOCIETY RULED BY

A 'KSHATRIYA' LIKE YOU.

 

WISHING YOU GENUINELY HUMBLE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS,

 

BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

> vediculture, Bhakti Ananda Goswami wrote:

> > http://66.216.3.167/columns/one/purusha.htm

> >

> >