Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 All glories to Srila Prabhupada the most elevated and preeminent of current Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Dear Bhakta Ananda Gosvami, My comments follow in bold to differentiate from previous text and to ease reading for you. Thank you. HARE KRISHNA ! SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA 1 (PLEASE EXCUSE CAPS AS THEY ARE EASIER FOR ME TO SEE.) DEAR BHAKTA TRAVELER, SINCE I AGREE WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA AND AM SPEAKING TO OTHERS THAT I ASSUME ALSO AGREE WITH HIM, I DID NOT FEEL IT NECESSARY TO TELL THOSE ALREADY KNOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS, WHAT THOSE INSTRUCTION WERE AND ARE. IF I WAS CHALLENGING SRILA PRABHUPADA OR HIS AUTHORITY IN ANY WAY, THEN I WOULD SURELY HAVE TO PROVE MY CASE AS AN ADVERSARY OF HIS TEACHINGS. MORE COMMENTS BELOW... CB. (I am just asking a simple question on siddhanta or understanding DVD to initiate an exchange, not even hardly challenging yet. We have only just begun, no need to be so defensive! I am ksatriya, you say you will minister to us but you cannot distinguish between passion and offense. And it is very necessary to repeat to each other continuously what the vani of Srila Prabhupada is on any subject at hand. At this time it is the one I have studied for 28 years non stop as anyone that knew me walking in the door in Miami in 74 up to now will attest to. Repetition of vani(instruction) is luckily one of Prabhupada's hallmark activities in his endeavors to teach us about his Krsna consciousness movement as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati did for him.) > All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai > > Dear Bhakta Ananda Gosvami: > The article you reference is very nice as a study comparing > similarities in other cultures to ancient Vedic or Aryan origins. It > appeared very scholarly, well researched and eloquently presented, > though I am a layman on such matters having no formal education on > Greek history or English composition. > But on the matter of studying Srila Prabhupada's vani and > ascertaining the correct siddhanta by taking in all his recorded vani > on any subject Prabhupada covers, I conceder myself well aquatinted > with him and wholly embrace his dream for the Krsna Consciousness > movement concerning Daivi-Varnasrama-Dharma. I saw no vani or > siddhanta as it would directly apply to Prabhupada's movement > contained in your response to my question. WHAT RESPONSE TO ANY RECENT QUESTION OF YOUR'S? DID YOU ASK ME A QUESTION SOMEWHERE UNDER EITHER OF YOUR NAMES POSTED HERE ? OR ARE YOU REFERING TO SOME CHALLENGE YOU MADE TO ME LAST YEAR ? PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT QUESTION YOU THINK I AM RESPONDING TO, AS I HAVE WRITTEN NOTHING THIS YEAR AS A RESPONSE TO YOU THAT I KNOW OF. CB. (The question was in response to your idea for a sort of support group sent out by e-mail through the Vedic culture group on . My initial letter is also there. Your response was reference to the Greek/Vedic cultural similarities of origins and comparison paper you wrote. Interesting you remember two or three lines from a year ago but not the retraction and apology that followed when asked for clarification. I recanted saying my statement was inappropriate and that was that. My name was at the bottom of this e-mail plain as day, I am not now, nor have I ever wrote to you under a pseudonym, though my address on has a different name in it I have signed as Caturbahu dasa Bhakti to you. Best to read the signature before claiming harassment.) Yes, you used what you > learned from Srila Prabhupada and through study of this ancient Greek > history can show the root culture coming from Vedic times, but where > is the siddhanta attained from the instructions of the spiritual > master? THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY ALMOST CONSTANT INVOCATION OF THE HOLY NAME, AND IN MY CENT-PER-CENT DEVOTION TO SERVING THE CAUSE OF SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA. THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY SERVICE TO SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AND MY FAITHFULNESS TO MY SANNYAS VOWS FOR OVER TEN YEARS. CB. ( You missed the point of the question and gave it the worst connotation. I have been faithful to my grhastha vows for 28 years so what's the point? Are you looking to assassinate character as a way out of this conversation? Go ahead I am far from perfect. But I know the truth as presented by Srila Prabhupada on DVD and can repeat that truth consistently and correctly. Pure vani does not depend on anyone's elevations or personal failings. Truth stands alone like a pillar. This is smoke screen arguing and not befitting a brahmana. Let us speak the truth on any subject as we have heard from Sri Krsna through Srila Prabhupada. I said nothing about how you carry out your every day sadhana. Are you feeling guilty or just have the need to gloat like a three year old?) This is the question. Though I did enjoy your paper as a > comparison, it is no better than trivia in light with Srila > Prabhupada's vani for ISKCON to embrace DVD and the regulative > principles contained there in. This is the siddhanta question, what > is your understanding of these instructions? WHERE HAVE I EVER CHALLENGED ANY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S INSTRUCTIONS, OR DEVIATED FROM HIS SERVICE, FOR YOU TO TAKE SUCH A TONE WITH ME ? CB. ( Actually I had no tone in mind when I said what I did, funny you would be so thin skinned as to find an offense with simple talk between Godbrothers. It was just a simple inquiry not a challenge. What do you know? Start any where, but make the talk about application to a devotee present day situation. Not a comparative culture paper, it was inappropriate in relation to the question. I specifically stated ISKCON, not Greek history validly compared to Vedic origins. If you would come out of the mode of passion and approach from the mode of goodness, as brahmana, you could have asked me for clarification first to give me a chance to reword, restate or say 'Yes, this is what it is.' The tone is yours.) > I have a problem or question with the assumption that just because > a person is in one of the fields you mention that they are > automatically included as qualified ksatriyas by Vedic standards. I NEVER CALLED THEM QUALIFIED KSHATRIYAS. I SAID THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA AFFIRMED THROUGHOUT HIS TEACHINGS THAT THE 4 VARNAS ARE NATURAL DIVISIONS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. I SAID THAT PERSONS WITH CERTAIN ATTRIBUTES OF NATURE, CERTAIN QUALITIES DESCRIBE THE KSHATRIYA NATURE AS OPPOSED TO THE BRAHMANA, VAISHYA OR SUDRA. CB. (Yes, of course. This is good clarification, responding nicely with vani.) > This is not by guna(quality) and karma(work). I was in the army and I > have to say 99.9% of the personnel are sudra and less by habit and > personal character or lack there of. No were near ksatriya. Push > button military and war perpetuated by the greedy vaisya class. > Supported by voted in legislators from the mleccha and candala > population of a country emulating a demoncracy form of government > bent on fascistic enslavement of the world. Gunda, mindless violent > servant to corrupt leadership. As are the police forces. APPARENTLY YOU KNEW 99.9% OF THE PERSONNEL IN THE ARMY ! YOU MUST BE A VERY POWERFUL BEING ! CB. ( Boy a general statement really rials you huh? Not all, but at least no less that 500 from a good cross section, including officers, post commander, priests from numerous denominations, noncom's and enlisted men. Mostly less that animals. Almost none could even hear about Krsna consciousness let alone reform there activities by embrace of vani.) > soldiers, search-and-rescue, police, > > prison guards, border patrol, firefighters, EMTs, hazmat > responders/ > > bomb squads, undercover agents/ intelligence officers, security > > officers, etc. > > > This is not a list of ksatriyas. Undercover agents/intelligence > officers are of the spy category and not of King/ksatriya character. WELL I SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT SRI KRISHNA AND ARJUNA PLAYED SPYING ON THE PEOPLE, AND IN FACT THE SCRIPTURES AND HISTORY OF THE EAST RECOUNT MANY STORIES OF GREAT PERSONAGES UNDER-COVER AND SPYING. SUCH ACTIVITY TAKES INCREDIBLE BRAVERY AND SELF-CONTROL, BOTH QUALITIES OF A KSHATRIYA. CB. ( If this one is wrong according to Prabhupada then please give reference so I can see and read for myself, change siddhanta as necessary according to vani. Give the quote. Now this is exchange of siddhanta! But Srila Prabhupada says; Krsna Book ch. 69 "Somewhere Krsna was found as a ksatriya king engaged in hunting animals in the forest and riding on very beautiful sindhi horses. According to Vedic regulations, the ksatriyas were allowed to kill prescribed animals on certain occasions, either to maintain peace in the forests or to offer the animals in the sacrificial fire. Ksatriyas are allowed to practice this killing art because they have to kill their enemies mercilessly to maintain peace in society. In one situation the great sage Narada saw Lord Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and master of mystic powers, acting as a spy by changing His usual dress in order to understand the motives of different citizens in the city and within the palaces." Then again; SB. 3.1.15p "When getting married, the ksatriya kings would take on several other youthful girls along with the married princess. These girl attendants of the king were known as dasis, or attendant mistresses. By intimate association with the king, the dasis would get sons. Such sons were called dasi-putras. They had no claim to a royal position, but they would get maintenance and other facilities just like princes. Vidura was the son of such a dasi, and he was thus not counted amongst the ksatriyas. King Dhrtarastra was very affectionate toward his younger dasi-putra brother, Vidura, and Vidura was a great friend and philosophical advisor to Dhrtarastra. Duryodhana knew very well that Vidura was a great soul and well-wisher, but unfortunately he used strong words to hurt his innocent uncle. Duryodhana not only attacked Vidura's birth, but also called him an infidel because he seemed to support the cause of Yudhisthira, whom Duryodhana considered his enemy. He desired that Vidura he immediately put out of the palace and deprived of all his possessions. If possible, he would have liked him caned until he was left with nothing but his breath. He charged that Vidura was a spy of the Pandavas because he advised King Dhrtarastra in their favor. Such is the situation of palace life and the intricacies of diplomacy that even a faultless person like Vidura could be charged with something abominable and punished. Vidura was struck with wonder at such unexpected behavior from his nephew Duryodhana, and before anything actually happened, he decided to leave the palace for good. So spying by the king is a useful tool for management and spying on another camp for the opposing party[King] has a lower connotation and said to be abominable and punishable. When caught they are not given treatment like a ksatriya. Just in case, I am not taking the side of Duryodhana in condemning the sage Vidura, only giving the examples of what would the personage and quality of spying by different varnas be. Personally I do not have time to read to much other that Srila Prabhupada's recorded vani or Mahabharata and Ramayana. I do keep up with current events, but that is about it. As far other sources of "history of the East." I am not incline to research outside of Srila Prabhupada auspices much anymore. Been there, done that. The qualities of a ksatriya are the last thing you will see in the spy world of 2002 on the planet of Bharata-varsa. Unless things have become totally spiritually surcharged in the CIA over the last 23 years, which I doubt! The result of that spying has had ghastly results and will create a near future that the whole planet will be forced to come to terms with.) > They are assistants, information givers, sudras that are overtly > underhanded and sneaky by profession, dishonest. Security officers > are also in the less intelligent mode, another name for gaurd/patrol > person. EMT are vaidya, physicians and said in the Caitanya > Caritamrta to be sudra, Adi 17.18p. Hasmat is technical reaction to a > given occurrence of contamination to an environment, technician, > sudra. Border patrol is again servant to the higher class ksatriya > order and has no ability by dint of his work to claim the > intellectual qualifications of that higher varna. Ditto to prison > guards, so many prisoners would be killed anyway because of the > Bhagavad-Gita Ch 1 text 36, six aggressors are to be killed at once. > This killing is the job of a ksatriya not a guard. Though guarding > prisoners is under the ksatriya, execution of that activity will not > need be done necessarily by ksatriyas, the cadre can do it > effectively. Police, firefighters and military are the closest but > still not necessarily by occupation do they have the ability(guna) to > lead a Vedic nation like Srila Prabhupada envisions nor do you speak > of such lofty goals like Srila Prabhupada does. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT MY LETTER ABOUT A SUPPORT GROUP WAS ADDRESSED TO VAISHNAVAS, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? WHY ARE YOU IN AN ATTACKING MODE ? I WAS WRITING TO DEVOTEES ABOUT FORMING A DEVOTEE SUPPORT GROUP FOR PERSONS OF THE BASIC KSHATRIYA NATURE, WHICH YOU DON'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF. CB. (WOW! attacking mode or what? Your very fearful, what are you hiding from? There is no place to hide, Krsna is everywhere. Then you say I am not a devotee? Do we know each other? This is the first time to my knowledge we have ever exchanged thoughts. How dare you presume and then cow down from some illusional elevated place to me. Like I said in the beginning you have not given me a chance to respond to the possibility that you are taking my inquirers wrong and to give a chance for some additional explanation that is obviously required. But of course you take the arrogant, puffed up bloated smarta brahmana/sannyasi stance of immediate condemnation without scriptural references or to present some unadulterated vani from Srila Prabhupada whom you say is you dear most master and then should be easily quotable for you. You said: > Our 'significant others', wives and children > also need the support of a Vaishnava community that understands their > military or intervention-driven 'on-duty' called-up-to-serve > lifestyle. > > I hope that 'significant others' does not include homosex. Srila > Prabhupada says that homosex is less that Aryan, that even sudra has > charter and some qualification. He never accepted homosex to be in > Vedic society nor ISKCON proper. All that have fallen to this > abominable act are outside of Vedic culture by dint of the vani of > Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada initiated reformed people only. Not > those that acted in nor actively identified themselves with homosex. > This is rejected over and over. Show evidence to the contrary from > recorded vani to contest. The rest is very nicely explained. > WHERE ON EARTH, OR IN THE THREE WORLDS DID THAT COME FROM ? I DON'T CHOOSE WHO OTHERS PICK FOR THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS ! DID I MENTION HOMO SEX ? I AM HETEROSEXUAL BY NATURE, AND HAD GIRL FRIENDS FOR THE MEN, OR BOY FRIENDS FOR THE WOMEN IN MIND WHEN I WROTE THAT. WHY DID YOU THINK OF HOMOSEX ? ARE YOU OBSESSED WITH IT ? DID I SAY IT WAS MY BUSINESS TO POLICE A KSHATRIYA SUPPORT GROUP, OR DID I SUGGEST A MUTUAL-SUPPORT MINISTRY FOR DEVOTEES? I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CHOOSING OTHER PEOPLES' SIGNIFICANT OTHERS. SINCE YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY, I HAVE MET MANY NICE DEVOTEES WITH SAME-SEX ATTRACTION, WHO HAVE SERVED SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA FAITHFULLY FOR DECADES. HOW DARE YOU TO PAINT THEM ALL WITH THE SAME DAMNING BRUSH ? CB. ( Yes, I do dare and how dare you challenge the spiritual masters consensus on the subject of homosex and then say to me that your homosex friends are so wonderful, their proclivities for same gender sex is deplorable and you are blind to Prabhupada's recorded opinion and that is the only one that counts for me. Not your wonderful friends playing with each others butts. Pretending brahminical varnas no less. If a persons mode of natural identification is less than brahmana, that means less that brahmana. Other wise it is cheating The idea came from my wife by the way. And I support her initial conclusions based on our life long experiences with the general public opinion in the USA about homosex and no apology will be forth coming on this matter. If it was a mistake then it is do to exuberance and not anything else. No attack on you personally was meant. I have looked up homosex on the folio and found that Srila Prabhupada has condemned it at every opportunity, I repeat as he spoke. Show difference by vani or surrender to the fact that homosex or attachment to such an idea as viable Vedic conduct is demoniac and not described as part of Srila Prabhupada's Krsna consciousness DVD movement. Do not assume that I am saying that they cannot chant the Holy Names of God, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Don't be so condescendingly absurd, as if I do not know that everyone and anyone can chant Hare Krsna and render service from their immediate position in the natural modes of nature that controls then. But the homosex mode of nature is said to be lower than sudra by Prabhupada and that is outside of DVD. 750514mw.per Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning samah. Samah, damah-- first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men? Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because... Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them--that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break) Not that the chanting nor service to Krsna is rejected from a person based on any lack of personal capacity, that is for all ten classes. Four higher[DVD] and six lower where homosex would be.) > You said: > Among devotees in the Hare Krishna Movement, > there are persons of the kshatriya nature. Srila Prabhupada did not > say 'keep them out !' No. Srila Prabhupada said "establish varnashram > dharma". > > Well, actually the movement in the beginning was to be a movement > of Brahmans that would lead the rest of society. Then Prabhupada saw > that the devotees were unable to over come their natures and were > falling from that asrama and materially managing horribly. In 1974 on > March 12 in Vrndavana Prabhupada said to include DVD inside ISKCON > and gave a wealth of instructions in the next week and later years > that followed as an outline that was subsequently checked, > restrained, constrained and suppressed for many more years and not > followed. Disqualifying the less than stelar brahminical > representatives inside and outside the movement through complete > neglect of the vani or guilt of administering poison vani to the > average devotee counterfeiting the mood, falsifying information and > distorted repression. > > The rest of your letter I found inspiring that someone may know and > understand the need and application of the ksatriya in present day > society at large to begin turning the social heading on a Vedic > course in line with the instructions of Krsna through the spiritual > master, Srila Prabhupada. These are just some questions I would like > answered or ideas discuss in order to know with who I am speaking and > associating with by e-mail. I HAD AN UNPLEASANT EXPERIANCE WITH YOU LAST YEAR, AND HAVE NOT KNOWINGLY BEEN ASSOCIATING WITH YOU BY EMAIL. HAVE YOU BEEN USING SOME OTHER NAME ? CB. (Again I find it interesting that three lines in an e-mail a year ago and you are up in arms. Not befitting a brahmana nor sannyasa. Interesting. Krsna Book ch. 69 Brahmanya means one who fully possesses the brahminical qualifications, which are said to be as follows: truthfulness, self- control, purity, mastery of the senses, simplicity, full knowledge by practical application, and engagement in devotional service. Not having any attachment to lower passionate varna and then claiming higher capacity. Neither have we to my knowledge corresponded beyond that one time and I repeat that I did apologized and retracted. Funny you do not remember that part which was only a day later. Must have hit a ksatriya nerve because a brahmana would not be so fast to fight over trifles but would approach the subject with a degree of restraint as I hear above they have this quality in abundance. No name other that how I have signed all my letters to you. Please do not mind, as a ksatriya we over > see all four varnas and asramas. Though we do not govern the > brahmans, we must make sure they are acting in accordance with Guru, > sastra and sadu honestly and are not cheaters. This is one of our > leadership duties that takes a great deal of faithful study and is > beyond the ability of a common guard or technician or mindless gunda > drone that is just there deriving pleasure from giving pain to others > furthering the dominating demoniac agenda of social corruption and > atheistic degradation. SO I SHOULD BE GRATEFUL THAT YOU ARE OVERSEEING ME TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM NOT A CHEATER ? YOU ARE DOING YOUR LEADERSHIP DUTY BY BEING INSULTING TO MANY SINCERE DEVOTEES OF A KSHATRIYA NATURE, BY INSULTING A SANNYASI (MY SELF) AND BY ATTACKING PEOPLE OVER HOMO SEX WHEN NOT A WORD OF IT WAS MENTIONED BY MYSELF OR ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF ? YOU ARE ACTING LIKE AN UNEDUCATED PERSON WITH NO HUMILITY OR REGARD FOR PROPER VAISHNAVA MANNERS. GET OVER YOURSELF. I WAS TRYING TO HELP SOME DEVOTEES. PERIOD. YOUR PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE AND INSULTING TONE IS JUST APARADHA TO ALL THE DEVOTEES YOU SO CASUALLY JUDGE AND CONDEMN. CB. (Again you are so violent and quick to attack. You did not ask to see if this was my mood. No, you do what you accuse me of, attack repeatedly. But I am good with it because now I know who you are and just as you say in an other letter, need no further contact by e- mail. But any time you come to Alachua look me up maybe we can be civil face to face and get somewhere. I can speak better than I write and we can look into each others eye to see the others soul. There was no animosity nor attack, just plain talk and siddhanta. If you find any problem with the idea of ksatriyas over seeing four varnas and asramas then take it up with Krsna and Prabhupada. I spoke and repeated Prabhupada. And yes you can feel secure that I am always on the ksatriya job, 24/7. I included my name so you could see that I signed my letter, there should be no mistake who I am.) > > Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti > > PS. Also I am concerned about your apparent personal attachment or > identification to the ksatriya varna. THANKYOU FOR YOUR 'CONCERN', BUT I AM NOT ATTACHED TO THE VARNA, IF I WAS, I WOULDN'T HAVE SPENT SO MUCH OF MY LIFE IN STUDY AND TEACHING AS A BRAHMANA, AND I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN SANNYAS FOR THE SAKE OF PREACHING. I KNOW THE NATURE THAT I WAS BORN WITH, AND STILL LIVE WITH EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. I AM HONEST ABOUT MYSELF, UNLIKE MANY OTHERS WHO ARE CHEATERS AND PRETENDING. I AM NOT CHEATING OR PRETENDING, TO BE ANYTHING EXCEPT MY SELF, AS I AM EMBODIED AND LIVING AT THIS MOMENT. Evidentially using possessive > language although claiming the varna of a Brahmana and the asrama of sannyasa. Please explain. > WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? I HAVE A KSHATRIYA NATURE. ANYONE KNOWING ME INTIMATELY, PERSONALLY, KNOWS THIS. HOWEVER, FOR THE SAKE OF SERVING SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA, A VAISHNAVA CAN ASSUME ANY TASK, IF SHE OR HE IS EMPOWERED TO DO IT BY THE LORD. THUS A VAISHYA CAN SERVE VALIANTLY AS A KSHATRIYA, OR A KSHATRIYA CAN FIGHT WITH THE PEN, INSTEAD OF THE SWORD, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN TO DO. EVEN PERSONS WITH A SAME-SEX ATTRACTION CAN SERVE THE LORD FAITHFULLY AND LIVE A CHASTE LIFE, IF HE GIFTS THEM BY GRACE TO DO IT ! SINCE YOU HAVE STUDIED SO MUCH, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT INTERSEXED PERSONS WERE PRESENT WHEN SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU APPEARED, AND IT WAS CONSIDERED AUSPICIOUS ! SO MUCH FOR YOUR HOMO PHOBIC WITCH-HUNT AMONG THE DEVOTEES. I AM A PRACTITIONER AND ADVOCATE OF ABSOLUTE CHASTITY, ARE YOU? DO YOU EVER HAVE SEX WITH YOUR OWN BODY (MASTURBATE ?) IF SO, THAT MAKES YOU A HOMOSEXUAL ! I DON'T EVEN HAVE SEX WITH MY OWN BODY. CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY THAT ? I CAN. IF YOU CAN'T, THEN YOU HAD BETTER STOP TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT HOMO SEX ! MASTURBATION IS THE ULTIMATE ACT OF HOMO SEX ! HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN ABSOLUTELY CHASTE AND CONTINENT? I AM GLAD THAT THERE ARE KSHATRIYAS TRYING TO KEEP CHEATING BRAHMANAS AND SANNYASIS IN LINE, BUT WHERE WERE YOU WHEN SO MANY CHEATERS ABUSED SO MANY DEVOTEES? THERE IS NO RECORD OF MY EVER HAVING ABUSED ANY DEVOTEES, SO WHY DO YOU KEEP CHALLENGING ME ? GO AFTER SOME REAL CHEATERS. I AM KEEPING MY VOWS. WHAT ABOUT YOU ? THANKS FOR YOUR NICE WORDS, BUT THEY DO NOT COVER THE FACT THAT YOUR POST IS PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE, CONCEITED AND OFFENSIVE THROUGHOUT. MAY THE LORD BLESS YOU WITH A CHANGE OF HEART, AND SOME GENUINE HUMILITY. I WOULD BE AFRAID TO LIVE IN A VEDIC SOCIETY RULED BY A 'KSHATRIYA' LIKE YOU. WISHING YOU GENUINELY HUMBLE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI CB. (Man where to start with this? First, lame attempts to assassinate a persons character does not change vani nor proper siddhanta at any point. Even if someone masturbates all day long if the truth comes from his mouth then it is still the truth. If someone follows all the precepts of the pancaratriki-viddhi and speaks falsely, then he is a cheater. Bas. Truth stands alone, just as a lie is evident when held unto that truth. Gold can come from a dirty place and we may utilizes. One minute you say that you are sannyasa then you identify with ksatriya varna, then you talk of your sexual proclivities being heterosexual. I though sannyasa means no identification other that nitai svarupa Krsna dasa? Then you suggest you are purely honest about your nature and then state you have a mentality as ksatriya but whimsically doing the work of a Brahmana? My problem is a ksatriya claims to be Brahmana. Cheater extortionary. Or are you honestly so confused and poisoned by bad association as to think that this last part revealed by your siddhanta concurring overwhelming proclivities to this varna is OK? Or can we go back to the beginning and start over civilly? Probably not, your to ready to defend an inherently failed stance. The vaisnava can take up a proxy from any place or at any time do to circumstance. But for good Krsna conscious management of ISKCON some will have to act in one varna and others will act out in another, by guna and karma, not by whimsy. Not that anyone can say. see this string? I am brahmana. See my stick? I am sannyasa. Oh, by the way my nature is passion and I struggle every day with this. If your natural position is of a strong particular nature then that is where you should honestly be acting in service to the guru. And if I may say so you are also an angry, aggressive person. My letter was to initiate contact in the mood of camaraderie not an attack on you but an exchange of understanding. I repeated this throughout. Sometimes we speak loud or with passion on something that is dear to our hearts but that is not necessarily war. It is just talking. You should be the one to get over himself and steps down to the second class level that you so affectionately identify with! You also say that I keep challenging you. When previous to this? One time, three lines? And I apologized! What the hell do you want or think I owe you for three lines that were apologized for? I am ksatriya, I see anomalies, I challenge based on Srila Prabhupada's vani. Get over yourself and answer the chalenge with vani!!! You say intersex was in the pastimes of Lord Caitanya and considered auspicious? I would like to read from Srila Prabhupada's vani about it if you can give references. As for my vows to Srila Prabhupada? 28 years thank you very much, same asrama, same varna. No cheating changes or falsely presenting myself as someone that I am not, that's honesty. But outside ISKCON after 78. Do to lack of cooperation with Srila Prabhupada's direction for Krsna conscious Vedic life to truthfully unfold within devotee association with vani given by Prabhupada, not poisoned vani contrived after being regurgitated by the likes of snake like corrupted dissempowered GBC/brahminical types and their poison vani cheerleader. What happened to ISKCON society do to a lack of management was you and yours fault, not mine. I have always been ready, willing and able to execute my duty as instructed by Srila Prabhupada, as I am now. But the cheating brahmans and cheerleaders never gave up the managerial leadership position, thereby continuing to degrading their varna further and consequently destroyed the movement along with the hearts of thousands of devotees in the process. This was not me, it was you and yours. If you are not subject to me or under my protection you cannot hold me responsible for the bad out came of your social fiscal. My protective ability? No one of my family members or friends has ever been hurt in my association or presents. I never failed to protect someone under my subjugation, be it intimate or extended. My wife and I cannot count how many times I have come to her rescue, physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, or any other way you can think. She is passionate fire aloud to burn with no hindrance and given high encouragement in her varna under full protection, as are my six passionate sons and highly qualified, beautiful daughter. They are the Royal vaisnava family of ISKCON whether you agree or not, I claim. If you or any devotees gives the chance I can put up in spades, other wise you need to shut up. I was always the first to protect distressed devotees that came to me for support. Whether in the airport, temple or on street sankirtan and not like a gunda doing the biding of poison vani corrupt leaders either. My wife wears kumkum in her part because I fought her family and won her like a ksatriya does. Though I did not kill her older brothers we were close to that, but I used restraint as should be applied to a given situation taking into account the consequences, place and circumstance involved. The ultimate homosex act is sodomy, not masturbation. And sex is not all one! There are varying degrees of sinful sex life, not all equal in reaction or action. Just like stealing, some times it is aloud. And masturbation is not as low an act as homosex. Other wise show by vani, not by repeating poison rhetoric to continue propping up a degraded concept not as of yet proved by vani. I have made my point on that Vaikuntha site you saw. This is the siddhanta exchange that is needed, like istagosthi. Vani then siddhanta. I'm feeling feisty and Prabhupada gave me you, so lets do this like the ksatriya you say you are. Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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