BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI'S RESPONSE TO CATURBAHU DASA BHAKTI

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHNA !

 

SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA !

 

DEAR Caturbahu dasa Bhakti,

 

PLEASE ACCEPT MY HUMBLE OBEISANCES AND SINCERE THANKS FOR YOUR

DETAILED CLARIFICATION. NOW THAT I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU ARE WHO YOU

CLAIMED TO BE, AND NOT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN USING MULTIPLE ALIASES

AND CYBER-STALKING ME FOR OVER A YEAR, I CAN ADDRESS YOU PROPERLY BY

THE NAME CATURBAHU DASA BHAKTI. BEFORE I DID NOT WANT TO ENGAGE IN

ANY EXCHANGE WITH YOU, BECAUSE I WAS UNSURE THAT YOU WERE WHO YOU

SAID YOU WERE. SINCE THEN I HAVE MADE SOME ENQUIRIES AND OTHER

DEVOTEES HAVE GIVEN ME SOME INFORMATION ABOUT YOU, AND THUS I HAVE

LEARNED THAT YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE.

 

IT WAS NOT OUR BRIEF EXCHANGE LAST YEAR THAT TROUBLED ME ABOUT YOU,

IT WAS EVENTS IN THE TIME PERIOD SURROUNDING OUR EXCHANGE, AND HOW

THESE WERE RELATED TO A VERY CRUEL ATTACK ON ME AND MY FAMILY AND

FRIENDS. THESE SEEMED TO CONNECT YOU TO THE SUBSEQUENT PROBLEMS I

HAVE HAD WITH A CYBER STALKER OR STALKERS EVER SINCE. APPARENTLY

YOUR SEEMING INVOLVEMENT WITH THE WHOLE THING WAS JUST CO-

INCIDENTAL. SO I AM VERY RELIEVED TO HAVE RECEIVED THE NECESSARY

INFORMATION NOW, AND TO HAVE COME THIS CONCLUSION.

 

REGARDLESS OF HOW I MAY FEEL ABOUT YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS KSHATRIYAS

OR PERSONS WITH SAME-SEX ATTRACTION, OR ME PERSONALLY, I AM VERY

RELIEVED AND HAPPY TO LEARN THAT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE

CYBER ATTACKS OR OTHER THREATS TO MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND I OVER THE

LAST YEAR. YOU MAY THINK THAT CYBER ATTACKS ARE NOT A SERIOUS MATTER,

BUT MY COMPUTER SYSTEM HAS BEEN RELENTLESSLY HACKED-INTO, AND THREE

DEVOTEE SITES WERE SABOTAGED AFTER POSTING THINGS FROM ME. IN

ADDITION, THE DEVOTEES WHERE I LIVE HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO THE STRESS

OF NUMEROUS DEATH-THREATS AGAINST ME AND ACTUAL ATTACKS ON MY LIFE

OVER THE YEARS. SO, I AM NOW TAKING EVEN CYBER ATTACKS OR ANY

EXPRESSION OF HOSTILITY TOWARDS ME VERY SERIOUSLY.

 

AS YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH ME,WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING ME AT

ALL, I WAS CONCERNED THAT YOU WERE ONE OF THESE THREATENING OR EVEN

ATTACKING PEOPLE. AS A RESULT, I DID NOT WANT TO ENGAGE IN ANY

FALSELY FRIENDLY CORRESPONDANCE WITH YOU. ALTHOUGH I AM EVERYONE'S

WELL WISHER, IT IS CLEAR THAT SOME PEOPLE WISH ME GREAT BODILY HARM

AND DEATH. SO, I DID NOT CARE TO READ THE PSEUDO-FRIENDLY PUBLIC

WORDS OF SOMEONE WHO MAY ACTUALLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PRIVATELY

SENDING HORRIFIC DEATH THREATS THROUGH THE MAIL TO WHERE MY CHILDREN

AND GRANDCHILDREN COULD SEE THEM IN THE MAIL BOX, AND BE DISTURBED BY

THEM.

 

MIND YOU THAT MANY ATTACKS ON ME HAVE COME FROM HOMOPHOBIC PERSONS,

WHO HAVE NOT THE SLIGHTEST UNDERSTANDING OF MY INTERSEXED CONDITION,

OR WHO I AM AS A PERSON. WHEN YOU INSIST ON HARRASSING ME ABOUT

HOMOSEX, WHEN I AM COMPLETELY CHASTE AND ONLY ADVOCATE CHASTITY FOR

EVERYONE ELSE, THIS MAKES ME WONDER IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE PERSONS

THREATENING OR ATTACKING ME WHO ERRONEOUSLY THINKS I AM A HOMOSEXUAL,

OR AN ADVOCATE OF ANY KIND OF ILICIT SEX. WHEN I DEFEND ANY PERSON

FROM CRUELTY AND ABUSE, I DON'T ASK WHAT THEIR GENDER IDENTITY OR

SEXUAL ATTRACTION IS FIRST. PEOPLE ARE PRECIOUS SOULS FIRST. I DO

NOT CASUALLY CLASSIFY AND DAMN THEM. I ABHORE CRUELITY AND VIOLENCE

TOWARDS ANY BEING, WHAT TO SPEAK OF HUMAN BEINGS. SO WHEN SAME-SEX

ATTRACTED DEVOTEES ARE BEING TREATED CRUELLY, I WILL BE PROTECTIVE OF

THEM. I WILL NOT ASK THEM WHO THEY ARE ATTRACTED TO AS A CONDITION

OF MY DEFENSE ON THEIR BEHALF. THIS IS NOT BECAUSE I AM IN FAVOR OF

ANY KIND OF ILICIT SEX. IT IS BECAUSE I AM IN FAVOUR OF PRECIOUS

SOULS, WHO ARE ALL TO BE LOVED AND PROTECTED FROM CRUEL ABUSE AND

EQUALLY HELPED BACK TO GODHEAD.

 

NOW THAT I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU ARE NOT A PERSON WHO HAS BEEN

INVOLVED IN THESE THREATS AND ATTACKS, I APOLOGIZE TO YOU FOR

ASSUMING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN, IN MY PREVIOUS POSTINGS ON THIS

AND THE HARE KRISHNA WORLD AND GALVA SITES. AS SOON AS I SUSPECTED

YOU WERE ONE OF MY CYBER-STALKERS, I SOLICITED INFORMATION FROM

DEVOTEES TO CONFIRM YOUR IDENTITY. I EVEN ASKED SOMEONE TO FORWARD A

PERSONAL MESSAGE TO YOU TO CLEAR THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF MY CONCERN ABOUT

YOUR IDENTITY UP. AS SOON AS I RECEIVED CONFIRMATION OF YOUR

IDENTITY, I POSTED LETTERS TO VEDICULTURE, HARE KRISHNA WORLD AND

GALVA TO INFORM EVERYONE THAT YOUR IDENTITY HAD BEEN CONFIRMED TO ME,

AND YOU WERE NOT THE CYBER-STALKER.

 

SINCE YOU ARE NOT THE CYBER-STALKER, AND YOU HAVE TAKEN THE TROUBLE

TO WRITE ME SUCH A DETAILED RESPONSE TO MY PREVIOUS LETTER, I WILL

REPLY TO YOUR POINTS IN BRIEF.

 

COMMENTS BELOW AT *...

 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada the most elevated and preeminent of

current Gaudiya Vaisnavas.

 

Dear Bhakta Ananda Gosvami,

My comments follow in bold to differentiate from previous text and

to ease reading for you. Thank you.

 

HARE KRISHNA ! SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA KI JAYA 1

 

(PLEASE EXCUSE CAPS AS THEY ARE EASIER FOR ME TO SEE.)

 

DEAR BHAKTA TRAVELER,

 

SINCE I AGREE WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA AND AM SPEAKING TO OTHERS THAT I

ASSUME ALSO AGREE WITH HIM, I DID NOT FEEL IT NECESSARY TO TELL THOSE

ALREADY KNOWING HIS INSTRUCTIONS, WHAT THOSE INSTRUCTION WERE AND

ARE. IF I WAS CHALLENGING SRILA PRABHUPADA OR HIS AUTHORITY IN ANY

WAY, THEN I WOULD SURELY HAVE TO PROVE MY CASE AS AN ADVERSARY OF HIS

TEACHINGS.

 

MORE COMMENTS BELOW...

 

CB. (I am just asking a simple question on siddhanta or understanding

DVD to initiate an exchange, not even hardly challenging yet. We have

only just begun, no need to be so defensive!

 

* MY DEFENSIVENESS WAS DUE TO THINKING THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THE

ATTACKS AND THREATS.

 

I am ksatriya, you say

you will minister to us but you cannot distinguish between passion

and offense.

 

 

*I WANTED TO ENCOURAGE DEVOTEES TO CREATE SELF-HELP GROUPS. I WAS

WILLING TO PUT DEVOTEES WHO CONTACTED ME IN TOUCH WITH EACH OTHER IN

PURSUIT OF THIS OBJECTIVE.

 

And it is very necessary to repeat to each other continuously what

the vani of Srila Prabhupada is on any subject at hand. At this time

it is the one I have studied for 28 years non stop as anyone that

knew me walking in the door in Miami in 74 up to now will attest to.

Repetition of vani(instruction) is luckily one of Prabhupada's

hallmark activities in his endeavors to teach us about his Krsna

consciousness movement as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati did for

him.)

 

 

> All glories to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai

>

> Dear Bhakta Ananda Gosvami:

> The article you reference is very nice as a study comparing

> similarities in other cultures to ancient Vedic or Aryan origins.

It

> appeared very scholarly, well researched and eloquently presented,

> though I am a layman on such matters having no formal education on

> Greek history or English composition.

> But on the matter of studying Srila Prabhupada's vani and

> ascertaining the correct siddhanta by taking in all his recorded

vani

> on any subject Prabhupada covers, I conceder myself well aquatinted

> with him and wholly embrace his dream for the Krsna Consciousness

> movement concerning Daivi-Varnasrama-Dharma. I saw no vani or

> siddhanta as it would directly apply to Prabhupada's movement

> contained in your response to my question.

 

 

WHAT RESPONSE TO ANY RECENT QUESTION OF YOUR'S? DID YOU ASK ME A

QUESTION SOMEWHERE UNDER EITHER OF YOUR NAMES POSTED HERE ? OR ARE

YOU REFERING TO SOME CHALLENGE YOU MADE TO ME LAST YEAR ? PLEASE

CLARIFY WHAT QUESTION YOU THINK I AM RESPONDING TO, AS I HAVE WRITTEN

NOTHING THIS YEAR AS A RESPONSE TO YOU THAT I KNOW OF.

 

CB. (The question was in response to your idea for a sort of support

group sent out by e-mail through the Vedic culture group on . My

initial letter is also there.

 

*SO HERE YOU WERE REFERING TO YOUR VEDACULTURE REQUEST FOR

INFORMATION ABOUT THE KSHATRIYA SUPPORT GROUP? THIS IS A SIMPLE

MISUNDERSTANDING, AS I MADE NO "RESPONSE TO" ANY "QUESTION" OF YOURS,

THAT YOU COULD BE REFERING TO IN THIS POST. THUS I HAD TO ASK

MYSELF, "WHAT RESPONSE TO WHAT QUESTION IS HE TALKING ABOUT ?" THIS

BROUGHT UP THE QUESTION OF WHETHER YOU HAD ELSEWHERE ASKED ME A

QUESTION UNDER AN ALIAS, THAT I HAD RESPONDED TO. IF DEVOTEES HAD

NOT USED ALIASES IN HARASSING AND ATTACKING ME, I WOULD NOT HAVE THIS

QUESTION TO DEAL WITH. NOT KNOWING YOU, OR ANYONE WHO KNEW YOU, IT

RAISED THE ISSUE OF WHETHER YOU WERE ONE OF THESE OTHER GUYS, USING

AN ALIAS.

 

Your response was reference to the

Greek/Vedic cultural similarities of origins and comparison paper you

wrote.

Interesting you remember two or three lines from a year ago but not

the retraction and apology that followed when asked for

clarification. I recanted saying my statement was inappropriate and

that was that.

 

*I THOUGHT 'THAT WAS THAT' TOO, UNTIL THE MOST RECENT EVENTS AT HARE

KRISHNA WORLD, WHERE THE SITE WAS HACKED AND I WAS REMOVED AS THE

MODERATOR OF TWO FORUMS BY THE HACKER. THIS WAS RELATED TO AN

EXCHANGE OVER KSHATRIYAS, AND WE ENDED UP BANNING A POSTER. YOUR

VERY SIMILAR POST HERE CAUSED ME TO REVIEW OUR PREVIOUS CONTACT IN

THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SITUATION.

IN MY POST I WAS HONESTLY ENQUIRING AS TO YOUR IDENTITY, AND LETTING

YOU KNOW THAT I HAD BEEN HAVING TROUBLE WITH PERSONS USING ALIASES.

 

My name was at the bottom of this e-mail plain as day, I am not

now, nor have I ever wrote to you under a pseudonym, though my

address on has a different name in it I have signed as

Caturbahu dasa Bhakti to you. Best to read the signature before

claiming harassment.)

 

 

*THE SIGNITURE OF A PERSON USING AN ALIAS MEANS NOTHING. I BELIEVE

YOU NOW BECAUSE I HAVE RECIEVED THIRD PARTY CONFIRMATION THAT YOU

EXIST. THE HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT IS VERY LARGE, AND WITH SO MANY

DEVOTEES USING ALIASES ON THE INTERNET, A SIGNED LETTER MEANS ALMOST

NOTHING, WITHOUT A THIRD-PARTY CONFIRMATION OF SOMEONE'S IDENTITY.

 

Yes, you used what you

> learned from Srila Prabhupada and through study of this ancient

Greek

> history can show the root culture coming from Vedic times, but

where

> is the siddhanta attained from the instructions of the spiritual

> master?

 

THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY ALMOST CONSTANT INVOCATION OF THE HOLY NAME,

AND IN MY CENT-PER-CENT DEVOTION TO SERVING THE CAUSE OF SRI SRI GURU

AND GAURANGA. THE SIDDHANTA IS IN MY SERVICE TO SRI SRI GURU AND

GAURANGA FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AND MY FAITHFULNESS TO MY SANNYAS VOWS

FOR OVER TEN YEARS.

 

CB. ( You missed the point of the question and gave it the worst

connotation. I have been faithful to my grhastha vows for 28 years so

what's the point? Are you looking to assassinate character as a way

out of this conversation?

 

*NO. YOU SEEMED TO HAVE ASSUMED THAT I WAS FAMILIAR WITH YOU OR YOUR

OTHER INTERNET WRITINGS ON SIDDHANTA. AT THE TIME YOU SEEMED TO BE

CHALLENGING ME ON SOMETHING THAT I HAD NEVER REJECTED OR ATTACKED,

SRILA PRABHPADA'S VANI. YOU DON'T KNOW ANY THING ABOUT ME. SRILA

PRABHUPADA IS MY GURU AND I HAVE NEVER DISTRIBUTED THE WRITINGS OF

ANY OTHER GURU BESIDES SRILA PRABHUPADA. I AM NOT A LATE-COMER TO THE

MOVEMENT. MY CHILDREN ATTENDED DALLAS GURUKULA IN THE EARLY DAYS OF

THE MOVEMENT, AND I DID 'SANKIRTAN' AND WORKED AT SPIRITUAL SKY

INCENSE. I AM DOCTRINALLY A VERY CONSERVATIVE PERSON, AND IN FACT

HAVE KEPT ALL MY OLD EDITIONS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS, WHICH ARE

WHAT I STILL USE TODAY. YOU SEEMED TO LUMP-ME-IN WITH SO MANY OTHER

PEOPLE WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT ME.

 

*I EXPRESSED TO YOU THAT I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR IDENTITY. SINCE I

HAVE NOW READ ALL OF YOUR POSTINGS THAT I COULD FIND ON THE INTERNET,

I SEE THAT YOUR TONE AND STYLE IS THE SAME WITH EVERYONE, AND I

REALIZE THE THERE WAS NOTHING PERSONAL IN YOUR CHALLENGING TONE. IF

SOMEONE WANTS TO CHALLENGE ME REGARDING THE CONCLUSION OF MY STUDIES,

ALL I CAN OFFER IS MY LIFE IN PROOF THAT I HAVE ACCEPTED SRILA

PRABHUPADA'S VANI.

 

*YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT TAKING SANNYAS VOWS IS A LITTLE THING, AND

THAT I AM LIKE SOME OTHER ISKCON SANNYASIS WHO WERE ORDERED TO TAKE

SANNYAS, OR SOME OTHER CHEATER SANNYASIS WHO HAVE NOT KEPT THEIR

VOWS. YOU ALSO SEEM TO THINK THAT I AM AN ISKCON SANNYASI, WHICH IS

NOT THE CASE.

 

Go ahead I am far from perfect. But I know

the truth as presented by Srila Prabhupada on DVD and can repeat that

truth consistently and correctly. Pure vani does not depend on

anyone's elevations or personal failings. Truth stands alone like a

pillar. This is smoke screen arguing and not befitting a brahmana.

Let us speak the truth on any subject as we have heard from Sri Krsna

through Srila Prabhupada.

I said nothing about how you carry out your every day sadhana. Are

you feeling guilty or just have the need to gloat like a three year

old?)

 

 

*I WAS ASSERTING THE FACT OF MY LIFE OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE IN PROOF

OF ACCEPTING SRILA PRABHUPADA'S VANI.

 

This is the question. Though I did enjoy your paper as a

> comparison, it is no better than trivia in light with Srila

> Prabhupada's vani for ISKCON to embrace DVD and the regulative

> principles contained there in. This is the siddhanta question, what

> is your understanding of these instructions?

 

WHERE HAVE I EVER CHALLENGED ANY OF SRILA PRABHUPADA'S INSTRUCTIONS,

OR DEVIATED FROM HIS SERVICE, FOR YOU TO TAKE SUCH A TONE WITH ME ?

 

CB. ( Actually I had no tone in mind when I said what I did, funny

you would be so thin skinned as to find an offense with simple talk

between Godbrothers. It was just a simple inquiry not a challenge.

What do you know?

 

* SIMPLE TALK BETWEEN GODBROTHERS IS NOT SO SIMPLE ANYMORE WHEN A

PERSON HAS BEEN GETTING DEATH THREATS AND ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN MADE ON

HIS LIFE, AND HIS COMPUTER HAS BEEN PURPOSELY MALICIOUSLY HACKED

REPEATEDLY, AND HIS FRIENDS SITES HAVE BEEN HACKED AND DESTROYED TOO.

 

Start any where, but make the talk about application to a devotee

present day situation.

 

 

Not a comparative culture paper, it was

inappropriate in relation to the question. I specifically stated

ISKCON, not Greek history validly compared to Vedic origins.

 

* I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT QUESTION YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

NEITHER MY KSHATRIYA POST NOR MY SARAGRAHI ARTICLE POST HAD ANYTHING

TO DO WITH YOU, OR ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS. I DID NOT WRITE MY PURUSHA

CITIES PAPER IN RESPONSE TO ANY QUESTION OF YOUR'S.

 

If you

would come out of the mode of passion and approach from the mode of

goodness, as brahmana, you could have asked me for clarification

first to give me a chance to reword, restate or say 'Yes, this is

what it is.' The tone is yours.)

 

 

*NO, THE TONE IS ONE YOU GENERALLY USE IN YOUR POSTS. NOW THAT I

HAVE READ A NUMBER OF THEM, I SEE THIS, AND SO REALISE THAT THIS IS

YOUR GENERAL TONE. OTHERS I HAVE CORRESPONDED WITH HAVE ALSO FOUND

YOUR TONE PUFFED-UP, ARROGANT, INSULTING, CHALLENGING OR COMBATIVE.

HOWEVER I NOW KNOW THAT IT WAS NOT JUST INTENDED TO BE THIS WAY TO ME

PERSONALLY. IT IS THE WAY YOU TREAT SOME PEOPLE.

 

> I have a problem or question with the assumption that just

because

> a person is in one of the fields you mention that they are

> automatically included as qualified ksatriyas by Vedic standards.

 

 

I NEVER CALLED THEM QUALIFIED KSHATRIYAS. I SAID THAT SRILA

PRABHUPADA AFFIRMED THROUGHOUT HIS TEACHINGS THAT THE 4 VARNAS ARE

NATURAL DIVISIONS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. I SAID THAT PERSONS WITH CERTAIN

ATTRIBUTES OF NATURE, CERTAIN QUALITIES DESCRIBE THE KSHATRIYA NATURE

AS OPPOSED TO THE BRAHMANA, VAISHYA OR SUDRA.

 

CB. (Yes, of course. This is good clarification, responding nicely

with vani.)

 

> This is not by guna(quality) and karma(work). I was in the army and

I

> have to say 99.9% of the personnel are sudra and less by habit and

> personal character or lack there of. No were near ksatriya. Push

> button military and war perpetuated by the greedy vaisya class.

> Supported by voted in legislators from the mleccha and candala

> population of a country emulating a demoncracy form of government

> bent on fascistic enslavement of the world. Gunda, mindless violent

> servant to corrupt leadership. As are the police forces.

 

APPARENTLY YOU KNEW 99.9% OF THE PERSONNEL IN THE ARMY ! YOU MUST BE

A VERY POWERFUL BEING !

 

CB. ( Boy a general statement really rials you huh? Not all, but at

least no less that 500 from a good cross section, including officers,

post commander, priests from numerous denominations, noncom's and

enlisted men. Mostly less that animals. Almost none could even hear

about Krsna consciousness let alone reform there activities by

embrace of vani.)

 

*I FIND SUCH PREJUDICED, IMPERSONAL, BLANKET CONDEMNATIONS OF VAST

NUMBERS OF PEOPLE INEXCUSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH LUMPING WHOLE VAST NUMBERS OF PEOPLE ALL

IN TOGETHER. YOU HAVE LUMPED ME IN WITH ISKCON SANNYASIS AND GUYS

DOING SOMETHING WITH OTHER GUY'S BUTTS, AND HAVE MADE MORE ERRONEOUS

ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ME ABOVE AND BELOW IN YOUR LETTER.

 

> soldiers, search-and-rescue, police,

> > prison guards, border patrol, firefighters, EMTs, hazmat

> responders/

> > bomb squads, undercover agents/ intelligence officers, security

> > officers, etc.

>

>

> This is not a list of ksatriyas. Undercover agents/intelligence

> officers are of the spy category and not of King/ksatriya

character.

 

WELL I SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT SRI KRISHNA AND ARJUNA PLAYED SPYING ON

THE PEOPLE, AND IN FACT THE SCRIPTURES AND HISTORY OF THE EAST

RECOUNT MANY STORIES OF GREAT PERSONAGES UNDER-COVER AND SPYING.

 

 

SUCH ACTIVITY TAKES INCREDIBLE BRAVERY AND SELF-CONTROL, BOTH

QUALITIES OF A KSHATRIYA.

 

CB. ( If this one is wrong according to Prabhupada then please give

reference so I can see and read for myself, change siddhanta as

necessary according to vani. Give the quote. Now this is exchange of

siddhanta!

But Srila Prabhupada says;

Krsna Book ch. 69

"Somewhere Krsna was found as a ksatriya king engaged in hunting

animals in the forest and riding on very beautiful sindhi horses.

According to Vedic regulations, the ksatriyas were allowed to kill

prescribed animals on certain occasions, either to maintain peace in

the forests or to offer the animals in the sacrificial fire.

Ksatriyas are allowed to practice this killing art because they have

to kill their enemies mercilessly to maintain peace in society. In

one situation the great sage Narada saw Lord Krsna, the Supreme

Personality of Godhead and master of mystic powers, acting as a spy

by changing His usual dress in order to understand the motives of

different citizens in the city and within the palaces."

Then again;

 

*YOU HAVE GIVEN A GOOD REFERENCE YOURSELF.

 

SB. 3.1.15p

"When getting married, the ksatriya kings would take on several

other youthful girls along with the married princess. These girl

attendants of the king were known as dasis, or attendant mistresses.

By intimate association with the king, the dasis would get sons. Such

sons were called dasi-putras. They had no claim to a royal position,

but they would get maintenance and other facilities just like

princes. Vidura was the son of such a dasi, and he was thus not

counted amongst the ksatriyas. King Dhrtarastra was very affectionate

toward his younger dasi-putra brother, Vidura, and Vidura was a great

friend and philosophical advisor to Dhrtarastra. Duryodhana knew very

well that Vidura was a great soul and well-wisher, but unfortunately

he used strong words to hurt his innocent uncle. Duryodhana not only

attacked Vidura's birth, but also called him an infidel because he

seemed to support the cause of Yudhisthira, whom Duryodhana

considered his enemy. He desired that Vidura he immediately put out

of the palace and deprived of all his possessions. If possible, he

would have liked him caned until he was left with nothing but his

breath. He charged that Vidura was a spy of the Pandavas because he

advised King Dhrtarastra in their favor. Such is the situation of

palace life and the intricacies of diplomacy that even a faultless

person like Vidura could be charged with something abominable and

punished. Vidura was struck with wonder at such unexpected behavior

from his nephew Duryodhana, and before anything actually happened, he

decided to leave the palace for good.

 

So spying by the king is a useful tool for management and spying on

another camp for the opposing party[King] has a lower connotation and

said to be abominable and punishable. When caught they are not given

treatment like a ksatriya. Just in case, I am not taking the side of

Duryodhana in condemning the sage Vidura, only giving the examples of

what would the personage and quality of spying by different varnas be.

Personally I do not have time to read to much other that Srila

Prabhupada's recorded vani or Mahabharata and Ramayana.

 

*THE EXAMPLES I WAS THINKING OF ARE IN THESE SHASTRAS. FOR EXAMPLE,

RAVANA'S BROTHER ACTED AS A SPY FOR RAMA WHEN HE WAS STILL IN THE

COURT OF RAVANA. THE PANDAVAS ALSO ENGAGED IN SPYING WHILE

UNDERCOVER DURING THEIR EXILE.

 

I do keep up

with current events, but that is about it. As far other sources

of "history of the East." I am not incline to research outside of

Srila Prabhupada auspices much anymore. Been there, done that.

 

* MY ACADEMIC TRAINING IS AS AN HISTORIAN OF RELIGION, AND SUCH

SCHOLARSHIP IS THE DEVOTIONAL SERVICE I WAS ORDERED TO UNDERTAKE FOR

PREACHING PURPOSES. SO READING ABOUT INDIAN HISTORY IN GENERAL AND

VAISHNAVA HISTORY IN PARTICULAR HAS BEEN PART OF MY DEVOTIONAL

SERVICE, WHICH MAY SEEM LIKE TRIVIA TO YOU, BUT WAS WHAT I WAS

INSTRUCTED TO DO BY ACHARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA, SRILA PRABHUPADA'S

FIRST DISCIPLE, AND HIS CO-FOUNDER OF THE ORIGINAL LEAGUE OF

DEVOTEES.

 

 

The qualities of a ksatriya are the last thing you will see in the

spy world of 2002 on the planet of Bharata-varsa. Unless things have

become totally spiritually surcharged in the CIA over the last 23

years, which I doubt! The result of that spying has had ghastly

results and will create a near future that the whole planet will be

forced to come to terms with.)

 

 

*OVER AND OVER YOU HARP ON THE EVILS OF ALL THE 'NON-DEVOTEE' PEOPLE

YOU JUDGE AND CONDEMN. DO YOU REALLY STILL NOT GET IT THAT I WAS

ONLY SUGGESTING DEVOTEES TO FORM THEIR OWN MUTUAL SUPPORT GROUPS ?

YOUR ENTIRE DIATRIBE ABOUT THE BAD SOLDIERS YOU KNEW, THE CIA,

HOMOSEX ETC. HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID, OR MY

SUGGESTION TO FORM SUPPORT GROUPS .

 

> They are assistants, information givers, sudras that are overtly

> underhanded and sneaky by profession, dishonest. Security officers

> are also in the less intelligent mode, another name for

gaurd/patrol

> person. EMT are vaidya, physicians and said in the Caitanya

> Caritamrta to be sudra, Adi 17.18p. Hasmat is technical reaction to

a

> given occurrence of contamination to an environment, technician,

> sudra. Border patrol is again servant to the higher class ksatriya

> order and has no ability by dint of his work to claim the

> intellectual qualifications of that higher varna. Ditto to prison

> guards, so many prisoners would be killed anyway because of the

> Bhagavad-Gita Ch 1 text 36, six aggressors are to be killed at

once.

> This killing is the job of a ksatriya not a guard. Though guarding

> prisoners is under the ksatriya, execution of that activity will

not

> need be done necessarily by ksatriyas, the cadre can do it

> effectively. Police, firefighters and military are the closest but

> still not necessarily by occupation do they have the ability(guna)

to

> lead a Vedic nation like Srila Prabhupada envisions nor do you

speak

> of such lofty goals like Srila Prabhupada does.

 

 

* WHAT DOES THIS RANT HAVE TO DO WITH MY SUGGESTION THAT THE ABOVE

KIND OF DEVOTEES FORM MUTUAL SUPPORT GROUPS ?

 

IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT MY LETTER ABOUT A SUPPORT GROUP WAS

ADDRESSED TO VAISHNAVAS, WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND ? WHY ARE YOU IN AN

ATTACKING MODE ? I WAS WRITING TO DEVOTEES ABOUT FORMING A DEVOTEE

SUPPORT GROUP FOR PERSONS OF THE BASIC KSHATRIYA NATURE, WHICH YOU

DON'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF.

 

CB. (WOW! attacking mode or what? Your very fearful, what are you

hiding from? There is no place to hide, Krsna is everywhere. Then you

say I am not a devotee?

 

* WHERE DID I SAY SUCH A THING ? WHERE DID I SAY YOU WERE NOT A

DEVOTEE? NOWHERE !

 

Do we know each other? This is the first time

to my knowledge we have ever exchanged thoughts. How dare you presume

and then cow down from some illusional elevated place to me. Like I

said in the beginning you have not given me a chance to respond to

the possibility that you are taking my inquirers wrong and to give a

chance for some additional explanation that is obviously required.

But of course you take the arrogant, puffed up bloated smarta

brahmana/sannyasi stance of immediate condemnation without scriptural

references or to present some unadulterated vani from Srila

Prabhupada whom you say is you dear most master and then should be

easily quotable for you.

 

You said:

> Our 'significant others', wives and children

> also need the support of a Vaishnava community that understands

their

> military or intervention-driven 'on-duty' called-up-to-serve

> lifestyle.

>

> I hope that 'significant others' does not include homosex. Srila

> Prabhupada says that homosex is less that Aryan, that even sudra

has

> charter and some qualification. He never accepted homosex to be in

> Vedic society nor ISKCON proper. All that have fallen to this

> abominable act are outside of Vedic culture by dint of the vani of

> Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada initiated reformed people only. Not

> those that acted in nor actively identified themselves with

homosex.

> This is rejected over and over. Show evidence to the contrary from

> recorded vani to contest. The rest is very nicely explained.

>

 

WHERE ON EARTH, OR IN THE THREE WORLDS DID THAT COME FROM ? I DON'T

CHOOSE WHO OTHERS PICK FOR THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS ! DID I MENTION

HOMO SEX ? I AM HETEROSEXUAL BY NATURE, AND HAD GIRL FRIENDS FOR THE

MEN, OR BOY FRIENDS FOR THE WOMEN IN MIND WHEN I WROTE THAT. WHY DID

YOU THINK OF HOMOSEX ? ARE YOU OBSESSED WITH IT ? DID I SAY IT WAS MY

BUSINESS TO POLICE A KSHATRIYA SUPPORT GROUP, OR DID I SUGGEST A

MUTUAL-SUPPORT MINISTRY FOR DEVOTEES? I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH

CHOOSING OTHER PEOPLES' SIGNIFICANT OTHERS. SINCE YOU HAVE BROUGHT

UP THE ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY, I HAVE MET MANY NICE DEVOTEES WITH

SAME-SEX ATTRACTION, WHO HAVE SERVED SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA

FAITHFULLY FOR DECADES. HOW DARE YOU TO PAINT THEM ALL WITH THE SAME

DAMNING BRUSH ?

 

CB. ( Yes, I do dare and how dare you challenge the spiritual masters

consensus on the subject of homosex

 

*I HAVE NEVER CHALLENGED SRILA PRABHUPADA ON THIS OR ANYTHING ELSE.

HOWEVER YOU ARE ATTACKING PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW AT ALL.

YOU ARE ATTACKING CELIBATE INITIATED DEVOTEES WHO ARE NOT BREAKING

ANY OF THEIR VOWS.

 

and then say to me that your

homosex friends are so wonderful, their proclivities for same gender

sex is deplorable and you are blind to Prabhupada's recorded opinion

and that is the only one that counts for me. Not your wonderful

friends playing with each others butts.

 

*I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE THAT ANY OF MY CELIBATE DEVOTEE FRIENDS ARE

PLAYING WITH ANYONE'S BUTTS !

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

GENDER IDENTITY, SAME SEX ATTRACTION, CELIBACY, CHASTITY AND SEXUAL

ACTIVITY. I HAVE MET CELIBATE, CHASTE DEVOTEES WITH GENDER

DIFFERENCES AND SAME SEX ATTRACTION, WHO ARE CELIBATE AND CHASTE.

WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT THEY ARE ENGAGING IN ANY SEXUAL ACTIVITY ?

DON'T YOU THINK THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF KEEPING THEIR VOWS ? IF

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE CHASTE, WHY WOULD THEY JOIN THE HARE KRISHNA

MOVEMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND TAKE A VOW OF CHASTITY ? HOW CAN

YOU SPEAK OF THE LORD'S DEVOTEES AND SRILA PRABHUPADA'S SONS AND

DAUGHTERS WITH SUCH HORRIBLE CONTEMPT ?

 

Pretending brahminical varnas

no less. If a persons mode of natural identification is less than

brahmana, that means less that brahmana. Other wise it is cheating

 

*SRILA PRABHUPADA CREATED A CLASS OF BRAHMANAS OUT OF LESS THAN

SUDRAS, AND SAID A VAISHNAVA OF ANY VARNA NATURE COULD PERFORM ANY

SERVICE FOR THE LORD THAT THE LORD EMPOWERED HIM OR HER TO DO. THUS

ANY EMPOWERED VAISHNAVA CAN LEAD KIRTAN , DO PUJA, COOK, MANAGE,

PROTECT, FARM, PREACH ETC. IN A NORMAL VEDIC SITUATION, THOSE OF

A CERTAIN NATURE WOULD BE TRAINED IN CERTAIN APPROPRIATE SERVICES.

BUT OURS WAS NOT A NORMAL VEDIC CULTURAL SITUATION. DID THAT MAKE

SRILA PRABHUPADA A CHEATER ? WAS SRILA PRABHUPADA A CHEATER ? IS

THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ? READ YOUR OWN WORDS. ARE YOU SAYING HIS

ENTIRE PROGRAM OF GIVING BRAHMIN INITIATION TO NON-BRAHMINICAL BOYS

AND GIRLS WAS CHEATING ? I COMPLETELY REJECT THIS STRANGE IDEA.

SRILA PRABHUPADA DID NOT SPREAD BIRTH-CASTE-ISM ALL AROUND THE

WORLD ! HE TAUGHT THAT BY THE LORD'S MERCY EVEN A SUDRA CAN BECOME A

GREAT BRAHMANA AND PREACHER ! WAS EVERYONE OF HIS BRAHMIN

INITIATIONS INVALID ? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE SANNYASIS HE INITIATED, WERE

THEY ALL BHOGUS TOO ? THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY THIS, BUT I AM NOT

ONE OF THEM. I ACCEPT THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA WAS ACTING APPROPRIATELY

IN TEACHING BY WORD AND EXAMPLE THAT ANYONE COULD ACHEIVE GREAT

THINGS WHEN EMPOWERED BY THE LORD !

 

 

The idea came from my wife by the way. And I support her initial

conclusions based on our life long experiences with the general

public opinion in the USA about homosex and no apology will be forth

coming on this matter. If it was a mistake then it is do to

exuberance and not anything else. No attack on you personally was

meant.

 

* I APPRECIATE EXUBERANCE IN A PERSON, BUT NOT WHEN IT IS ASSOCIATED

WITH BLIND PREJUDICE AND DANGEROUS HATEFUL FANATICISM. THANKYOU,

THAT YOU DID NOT MEAN ANY PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME, BUT I AM CONCERNED

WITH YOUR CALUMNY AND GENERAL CONDEMNATION OF A WHOLE CLASS OF

INNOCENT DEVOTEES WHO ARE KEEPING THEIR VOWS AND SERVING SRI SRI GURU

AND GAURANGA WITH THEIR WHOLE LIVES.

 

I have looked up homosex on the folio and found that Srila

Prabhupada has condemned it at every opportunity, I repeat as he

spoke. Show difference by vani or surrender to the fact that homosex

or attachment to such an idea as viable Vedic conduct is demoniac and

not described as part of Srila Prabhupada's Krsna consciousness DVD

movement.

Do not assume that I am saying that they cannot chant the Holy Names

of God, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare

Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Don't be so condescendingly absurd, as if I

do not know that everyone and anyone can chant Hare Krsna and render

service from their immediate position in the natural modes of nature

that controls then. But the homosex mode of nature is said to be

lower than sudra by Prabhupada and that is outside of DVD.

 

750514mw.per

Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are

advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even

fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's

all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning samah. Samah, damah--

first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed.

That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed,

they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class

men?

Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...

Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we

are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will

have to waste our time to hear them--that's not good. They are not

even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some

position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what

is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about

their philosophy? (break)

 

Not that the chanting nor service to Krsna is rejected from a person

based on any lack of personal capacity, that is for all ten classes.

Four higher[DVD] and six lower where homosex would be.)

 

 

* AGAIN THIS RANT AGAINST HOMOSEX HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING I

SAID IN MY POST ON KSHATRIYAS OR PURUSHA AND VARNASHRAM DHARMA. IT

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING IN THIS EXCHANGE EXCEPT THAT YOU SEEM

TO BE OBSESSED BY HOMOSEX, AND DRAGGED IT INTO A DISCUSSION OF TWO

POSTS IN WHICH THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF IT BY ME.

 

> You said:

> Among devotees in the Hare Krishna Movement,

> there are persons of the kshatriya nature. Srila Prabhupada did not

> say 'keep them out !' No. Srila Prabhupada said "establish

varnashram

> dharma".

>

> Well, actually the movement in the beginning was to be a movement

> of Brahmans that would lead the rest of society.

 

* WELL ACTUALLY BEFORE HE CAME HERE TO THE USA, SRILA PRABHUPADA

FOUNDED THE LEAGUE OF DEVOTEES WITH DR. ACHARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA IN

INDIA. WHEN I WAS THERE, I WAS BLESSED TO GET THE ASSOCIATION OF

ACHARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA, AND TO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT SRILA

PRABUPADA'S ORIGINAL LEAGUE OF DEVOTEES MISSION DIRECTLY FROM HIM.

YOUR SPECULATIONS ABOUT SRILA PRABHUPADA'S EARLIEST HOPES AND

EXPECTATIONS REGARDING DVD ARE WRONG.

 

Then Prabhupada

saw

> that the devotees were unable to over come their natures and were

> falling from that asrama and materially managing horribly. In 1974

on

> March 12 in Vrndavana Prabhupada said to include DVD inside ISKCON

> and gave a wealth of instructions in the next week and later years

> that followed as an outline that was subsequently checked,

> restrained, constrained and suppressed for many more years and not

> followed. Disqualifying the less than stelar brahminical

> representatives inside and outside the movement through complete

> neglect of the vani or guilt of administering poison vani to the

> average devotee counterfeiting the mood, falsifying information and

> distorted repression.

>

> The rest of your letter I found inspiring that someone may know

and

> understand the need and application of the ksatriya in present day

> society at large to begin turning the social heading on a Vedic

> course in line with the instructions of Krsna through the spiritual

> master, Srila Prabhupada. These are just some questions I would

like

> answered or ideas discuss in order to know with who I am speaking

and

> associating with by e-mail.

 

I HAD AN UNPLEASANT EXPERIANCE WITH YOU LAST YEAR, AND HAVE NOT

KNOWINGLY BEEN ASSOCIATING WITH YOU BY EMAIL. HAVE YOU BEEN USING

SOME OTHER NAME ?

 

CB. (Again I find it interesting that three lines in an e-mail a year

ago and you are up in arms. Not befitting a brahmana nor sannyasa.

Interesting.

 

*IF YOU WERE TRYING TO IDENTIFY A PERSON WHO HAD BEEN THREATENING AND

ATTACKING YOU FOR A YEAR, MIGHT BE UP IN ARMS TOO.

 

Krsna Book ch. 69

Brahmanya means one who fully possesses the brahminical

qualifications, which are said to be as follows: truthfulness, self-

control, purity, mastery of the senses, simplicity, full knowledge by

practical application, and engagement in devotional service.

 

* A NICE DESCRIPTION... WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ALLOWING MANIACS TO

TERRORIZE ONE'S FAMILY AND FRIENDS. THERE ARE MANIACS IN THE HARE

KRISHNA MOVEMENT. I HAVE RECEIVED SCORES OF THREATENING LETTERS FROM

JUST ONE OF THEM. HE IS NOW LESS FRIGHTENING TO ME BECAUSE I KNOW

WHO AND WHERE HE IS. HOWEVER I DID NOT KNOW YOU, OR WHERE YOU

WERE. YOU COULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER ONE OF THESE MANIACS.

 

Not having any attachment to lower passionate varna and then

claiming higher capacity.

Neither have we to my knowledge corresponded beyond that one time

and I repeat that I did apologized and retracted. Funny you do not

remember that part which was only a day later. Must have hit a

ksatriya nerve because a brahmana would not be so fast to fight over

trifles

 

*WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT MY CONCERN WAS OVER THOSE FEW LINES ? MY

CONCERN HAS BEEN OVER MORE THAN 30 YEARS OF EXPERIANCES WITH

DANGEROUS FANATICS IN THE HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT, AND MOST RECENTLY,

THE SEVERAL YEARS OF HORRIFIC THREATS AND ATTACKS MY FAMILY AND I

HAVE ENDURED FROM 'DEVOTEES'.

 

but would approach the subject with a degree of restraint as

I hear above they have this quality in abundance.

No name other that how I have signed all my letters to you.

 

Please do not mind, as a ksatriya we over

> see all four varnas and asramas. Though we do not govern the

> brahmans, we must make sure they are acting in accordance with

Guru,

> sastra and sadu honestly and are not cheaters. This is one of our

> leadership duties that takes a great deal of faithful study and is

> beyond the ability of a common guard or technician or mindless

gunda

> drone that is just there deriving pleasure from giving pain to

others

> furthering the dominating demoniac agenda of social corruption and

> atheistic degradation.

 

SO I SHOULD BE GRATEFUL THAT YOU ARE OVERSEEING ME TO MAKE SURE THAT

I AM NOT A CHEATER ? YOU ARE DOING YOUR LEADERSHIP DUTY BY BEING

INSULTING TO MANY SINCERE DEVOTEES OF A KSHATRIYA NATURE, BY

INSULTING A SANNYASI (MY SELF) AND BY ATTACKING PEOPLE OVER HOMO SEX

WHEN NOT A WORD OF IT WAS MENTIONED BY MYSELF OR ANYONE OTHER THAN

YOURSELF ? YOU ARE ACTING LIKE AN UNEDUCATED PERSON WITH NO

HUMILITY OR REGARD FOR PROPER VAISHNAVA MANNERS. GET OVER YOURSELF.

I WAS TRYING TO HELP SOME DEVOTEES. PERIOD. YOUR PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE

AND INSULTING TONE IS JUST APARADHA TO ALL THE DEVOTEES YOU SO

CASUALLY JUDGE AND CONDEMN.

 

 

CB. (Again you are so violent and quick to attack.

 

*DO YOU KNOW WHAT VIOLENCE IS ? DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

OFFENCE AND DEFENCE?

 

You did not ask to

see if this was my mood.

 

*I MERELY TOOK YOUR WORDS AT FACE VALUE.

 

No, you do what you accuse me of, attack

repeatedly.

 

*ALL OF MY STATEMENTS HAVE BEEN IN DEFENCE OF THOSE YOU HAVE BLINDLY

CONDEMED.

 

But I am good with it because now I know who you are

 

* APPARENTLY NOT, AS YOU ARE STILL KEEPING YOUR SAME TONE.

 

and

just as you say in an other letter, need no further contact by e-

mail. But any time you come to Alachua look me up maybe we can be

civil face to face and get somewhere. I can speak better than I write

and we can look into each others eye to see the others soul.

There was no animosity nor attack, just plain talk and siddhanta.

If you find any problem with the idea of ksatriyas over seeing four

varnas and asramas then take it up with Krsna and Prabhupada. I spoke

and repeated Prabhupada. And yes you can feel secure that I am always

on the ksatriya job, 24/7.

 

 

* AND WHY WOULD I FEEL SECURE WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN A DEVOTEE AND A DEMON, AND YOU THINK IT IS YOUR JOB TO KILL

IN THE NAME OF SRI SRI GURU AND GODHEAD ? YOU SPEAK OF ALL SEX-AND-

GENDER DIFFERENT DEVOTEES (INITIATED, CHASTE VAISHNAVAS) AS IF THEY

WERE DEMONS. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FEEL SECURE THAT YOU WILL NOT

SOMEDAY TRY TO KILL ME OR ONE OF MY DEVOTEE FRIENDS ? I SPOKE OF

KSHATRIYAS AS PRIMARILY PROTECTORS AND RESCUERS, BUT YOU SPOKE OF

THEM AS KILLERS. AS A KSHATRIYA BY NATURE, I AM VERY PROTECTIVE,

AND HAVE REPEATEDLY RUSHED INTO SITUATIONS OF GRAVE DANGER TO HELP

OTHERS. I HAVE MET VIOLENCE WITH STRENGTH AND COURAGE, BUT I DO NOT

LOVE KILLING. A KSHATRIYA IS A DHARMA PROTECTOR, AND VIOLENCE IS A

NECESSARY AUSTERITY SOMETIMES FOR PROTECTION. BUT, A DEVOTEE

KSHATRIYA DOES NOT LOVE VIOLENCE, OR HAVING TO HURT OR SLAY ANY

BEING.

 

I included my name so you could see that I signed my letter, there

should be no mistake who I am.)

 

>

> Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti

>

> PS. Also I am concerned about your apparent personal attachment or

> identification to the ksatriya varna.

 

THANKYOU FOR YOUR 'CONCERN', BUT I AM NOT ATTACHED TO THE VARNA, IF I

WAS, I WOULDN'T HAVE SPENT SO MUCH OF MY LIFE IN STUDY AND TEACHING

AS A BRAHMANA, AND I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN SANNYAS FOR THE SAKE OF

PREACHING.

 

I KNOW THE NATURE THAT I WAS BORN WITH, AND STILL LIVE WITH EVERY

MINUTE OF EVERY DAY. I AM HONEST ABOUT MYSELF, UNLIKE MANY OTHERS

WHO ARE CHEATERS AND PRETENDING. I AM NOT CHEATING OR PRETENDING, TO

BE ANYTHING EXCEPT MY SELF, AS I AM EMBODIED AND LIVING AT THIS

MOMENT.

 

Evidentially using possessive

> language although claiming the varna of a Brahmana and the asrama

of sannyasa. Please explain.

 

> WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? I HAVE A KSHATRIYA NATURE. ANYONE KNOWING ME

INTIMATELY, PERSONALLY, KNOWS THIS. HOWEVER, FOR THE SAKE OF SERVING

SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA, A VAISHNAVA CAN ASSUME ANY TASK, IF SHE OR

HE IS EMPOWERED TO DO IT BY THE LORD. THUS A VAISHYA CAN SERVE

VALIANTLY AS A KSHATRIYA, OR A KSHATRIYA CAN FIGHT WITH THE PEN,

INSTEAD OF THE SWORD, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN TO DO. EVEN PERSONS

WITH A SAME-SEX ATTRACTION CAN SERVE THE LORD FAITHFULLY AND LIVE A

CHASTE LIFE, IF HE GIFTS THEM BY GRACE TO DO IT ! SINCE YOU HAVE

STUDIED SO MUCH, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT INTERSEXED PERSONS WERE PRESENT

WHEN SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU APPEARED, AND IT WAS CONSIDERED

AUSPICIOUS !

 

SO MUCH FOR YOUR HOMO PHOBIC WITCH-HUNT AMONG THE DEVOTEES. I AM A

PRACTITIONER AND ADVOCATE OF ABSOLUTE CHASTITY, ARE YOU? DO YOU EVER

HAVE SEX WITH YOUR OWN BODY (MASTURBATE ?) IF SO, THAT MAKES YOU A

HOMOSEXUAL ! I DON'T EVEN HAVE SEX WITH MY OWN BODY. CAN YOU

HONESTLY SAY THAT ? I CAN. IF YOU CAN'T, THEN YOU HAD BETTER STOP

TALKING TO ANYONE ABOUT HOMO SEX ! MASTURBATION IS THE ULTIMATE ACT

OF HOMO SEX !

 

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN ABSOLUTELY CHASTE AND CONTINENT?

 

I AM GLAD THAT THERE ARE KSHATRIYAS TRYING TO KEEP CHEATING BRAHMANAS

AND SANNYASIS IN LINE, BUT WHERE WERE YOU WHEN SO MANY CHEATERS

ABUSED SO MANY DEVOTEES? THERE IS NO RECORD OF MY EVER HAVING

ABUSED ANY DEVOTEES, SO WHY DO YOU KEEP CHALLENGING ME ? GO AFTER

SOME REAL CHEATERS. I AM KEEPING MY VOWS. WHAT ABOUT YOU ?

 

THANKS FOR YOUR NICE WORDS, BUT THEY DO NOT COVER THE FACT THAT YOUR

POST IS PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE, CONCEITED AND OFFENSIVE THROUGHOUT. MAY

THE LORD BLESS YOU WITH A CHANGE OF HEART, AND SOME GENUINE

HUMILITY. I WOULD BE AFRAID TO LIVE IN A VEDIC SOCIETY RULED BY

A 'KSHATRIYA' LIKE YOU.

 

WISHING YOU GENUINELY HUMBLE KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS,

 

BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

 

CB. (Man where to start with this? First, lame attempts to

assassinate a persons character does not change vani nor proper

siddhanta at any point.

 

* SINCE YOU WERE INTO JUDGING AND CONDEMNING PEOPLE, I ASKED YOU

ABOUT YOUR OWN ACTIONS. A CHARACTER ASASSINATION WOULD BE IF I

ASSERTED SOME UNTRUTH ABOUT YOU, WHICH I DID NOT. I DID NOT SAY YOU

WERE MY HARASSER, OR THAT YOU DID FORBIDDEN THINGS, I EXPRESSED MY

CONCERN ABOUT YOUR IDENTITY, AND ASKED YOU IF YOU DID SOME OF THE

VERY THINGS THAT YOU CONDEMNED OTHERS FOR.

 

 

Even if someone masturbates all day long if

the truth comes from his mouth then it is still the truth. If someone

follows all the precepts of the pancaratriki-viddhi and speaks

falsely, then he is a cheater. Bas. Truth stands alone, just as a lie

is evident when held unto that truth. Gold can come from a dirty

place and we may utilizes.

 

*AN ACHARYA CAN TEACH BY HIS OWN PERSONAL EXAMPLE. I AM CHASTE, SO I

AM QUALIFIED TO TEACH ABOUT CHASTITY. I AM NOT GLOATING ABOUT THIS,

BUT I AM POINTING OUT TO YOU THAT IF YOU ARE STILL HAVING ILICIT SEX,

THEN YOU SHOULD PROBABLY USE YOUR VALUABLE ENERGY TO TRY TO CONTROL

YOUR OWN SENSES, RATHER THAN SPECULATING ABOUT, JUDGING AND

CONDEMNING OTHERS FOR NOT CONTROLING THEIRS.

 

One minute you say that you are sannyasa then you identify with

ksatriya varna, then you talk of your sexual proclivities being

heterosexual. I though sannyasa means no identification other that

nitai svarupa Krsna dasa?

 

*I AM SORRY THAT YOU ARE SO CONFUSED BY THE FACT THAT I STILL HAVE A

BODY AND BRAIN, WITH ALL THAT THAT INVOLVES. MY SVARUPA IDENTITY IN

THE SPIRITUAL SKY IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, BUT IN THIS WORLD, MY

LIFE OF SERVICE IS AN OPEN BOOK, AND I AM NOT TRYING TO ARTIFICIALLY

DENY THE BODILY NATURE I WAS BORN WITH, OR MY HISTORY IN THE HARE

KRISHNA MOVEMENT.

 

Then you suggest you are purely honest

about your nature and then state you have a mentality as ksatriya but

whimsically doing the work of a Brahmana?

 

* HOW IS IT WHIMSICAL TO DO A SCHOLAR'S SERVICE, WHEN I WAS

INSTRUCTED TO DO IT AS MY SERVICE TO SRI SRI GURU AND GAURANGA BY

ACHARYA PRABHAKAR MISHRA ?

 

My problem is a ksatriya

claims to be Brahmana. Cheater extortionary.

 

*AMONG THE VARNAS, KSHATRIYAS WERE TRADITIONALLY ALLOWED TO TAKE THE

SACRED THREAD. YOUR IDEA IS NOT SUPPORTED BY EITHER SHASTRA OR

HISTORY / TRADITION OR SRILA PRABHUPADA'S COMMENTARIES. MANY GREAT

SOLDIERS AND STATESMEN WERE BRAHMANA INITIATED. EVEN TODAY, OFTEN

THE SONS OF KSHATRIYAS RECEIVE THE SACRED THREAD DURING THEIR TEENS

OR YOUNG MANHOOD IN VARIOUS VAISHNAVA AND SHAIVITE LINEAGES IN

INDIA. IN FACT, THERE ARE WHOLE SOUTH INDIAN / DRAVIDIAN TRADITIONS

OF WARRIOR-BRAHMANAS. THE SCRIPTURES ARE FULL OF STORIES OF

BRAHMANAS WHO HAD TO ACT LIKE KSHATRIYAS AND KSHATRIYAS WHO ACTED AS

BRAHMANAS. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME ACKNOWLEDGING THE NATURE

OF THE BODY I WAS BORN WITH, AND TRYING TO HONESTLY USE IT IN GOD'S

SERVICE.

IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT MY BIRTH VARNA OR INTELLECTUAL

QUALIFICATIONS FOR SCHOLARSHIP, I AM FROM A FAMILY OF HIGHLY

EDUCATED, BRILLIANT, MORAL AND DEVOUTE MEN AND WOMEN, AND WAS

CONSIDERED TO BE GIFTED WITH A GENIUS LEVEL I Q AS A TEENAGER. MY

FATHER IS A PIONEERING RESEARCHIST IN THE FIELD OF ELECTROBIOPHYSICS,

AND ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, I WORKED AS A RESEARCH ASSISTANT TO HIM.

I WAS DOING MY OWN INTERDISCIPLINARY GRADUATE LEVEL RESEARCH WORK IN

THE HISTORY OF SALVIFIC INCARNATIONAL MONOTHEISM WHEN I WAS IN MY

MIDDLE TEENS.

THE BRAHMINICAL INTELLECTUAL AND CHARACTER QUALITIES I DO HAVE WERE

RECOGNIZED AND APPRECIATED BY SENIOR VAISHNAVAS IN INDIA, WHO GAVE ME

THEIR BLESSINGS AND ALL ENCOURAGEMENT TO CONTINUE MY STUDIES IN SRI

SRI GURU AND GAURANGA'S SERVICE.

 

Or are you honestly so

confused and poisoned by bad association

 

*WHAT BAD ASSOCIATION? IN YOUR MIND I AM INFLUENCED BY BAD

ASSOCIATION. WHO DO YOU IMAGINE THAT I HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATING WITH?

 

as to think that this last

part revealed by your siddhanta concurring overwhelming proclivities

to this varna is OK? Or can we go back to the beginning and start

over civilly? Probably not, your to ready to defend an inherently

failed stance.

 

 

The vaisnava can take up a proxy from any place or at any time do to

circumstance. But for good Krsna conscious management of ISKCON some

will have to act in one varna and others will act out in another, by

guna and karma, not by whimsy. Not that anyone can say. see this

string? I am brahmana. See my stick? I am sannyasa. Oh, by the way my

nature is passion and I struggle every day with this. If your natural

position is of a strong particular nature then that is where you

should honestly be acting in service to the guru.

 

 

And if I may say so

you are also an angry, aggressive person. My letter was to initiate

contact in the mood of camaraderie not an attack on you but an

exchange of understanding.

 

*IN THE CONTEXT OF RECENT EVENTS, THERE WAS A SERIOUS QUESTION AS TO

YOUR IDENTITY. IN ADDITION, YOUR TONE DID NOT AT ALL SEEM SINCERELY

FRIENDLY, BUT RATHER SEEMED IMBUED WITH FALSE HUMILITY AND AN

INSULTING, DEPRECIATING ATTITUDE TOWARDS MANY PEOPLE.

 

I repeated this throughout. Sometimes we

speak loud or with passion on something that is dear to our hearts

but that is not necessarily war. It is just talking. You should be

the one to get over himself and steps down to the second class level

that you so affectionately identify with!

 

 

You also say that I keep challenging you. When previous to this?

One time, three lines? And I apologized! What the hell do you want or

think I owe you for three lines that were apologized for?

 

*NOTHING, MY CONCERN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT SINGLE INCIDENT. IT

WAS THE SUBSEQUENT EVENTS THAT CAUSED ME TO REMEMBER THAT INCIDENT

WITH CONCERN.

 

I am

ksatriya, I see anomalies, I challenge based on Srila Prabhupada's

vani. Get over yourself and answer the chalenge with vani!!!

 

 

You say intersex was in the pastimes of Lord Caitanya and

considered auspicious? I would like to read from Srila Prabhupada's

vani about it if you can give references.

 

*AMARA DASA HAS SENT THE REFERENCE.

 

 

As for my vows to Srila Prabhupada? 28 years thank you very much,

same asrama, same varna. No cheating changes or falsely presenting

myself as someone that I am not, that's honesty.

 

* DID YOU TAKE BRAHMANA INITIATION? IN OUR SOCIETY ONE COULD NOT

EVEN COOK FOR THE LORD / SRI MURTI WITHOUT BRAHMANA INITIATION. ARE

YOU ONE OF THE "CHEATERS" ? DID YOU EVER COOK OR DO PUJA IN THE

MOVEMENT ?

 

But outside ISKCON

after 78. Do to lack of cooperation with Srila Prabhupada's direction

for Krsna conscious Vedic life to truthfully unfold within devotee

association with vani given by Prabhupada, not poisoned vani

contrived after being regurgitated by the likes of snake like

corrupted dissempowered GBC/brahminical types and their poison vani

cheerleader.

What happened to ISKCON society do to a lack of management was you

and yours fault, not mine.

 

*ME AND MINE ? YOU ARE MAKING AN ENORMOUS AND ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTION

ABOUT MY ACTIVITIES IN, AND RELATIONSHIP TO ISKCON. THIS IS EXACTLY

WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS, YOU HABITUALLY DAMN PEOPLE WITHOUT KNOWING

ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. SOMETIMES THERE MAY BE A CASE OF MISTAKEN

IDENTITY, DUE TO SOME COINCIDENCES, AS IN MY HONEST MISTAKE ABOUT

YOUR IDENTITY, BUT THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS HABITUALLY LUMPING-

TOGETHER PEOPLE YOU DO NOT KNOW AND DAMNING THEM ALL.

 

I have always been ready, willing and able

to execute my duty as instructed by Srila Prabhupada, as I am now.

But the cheating brahmans and cheerleaders never gave up the

managerial leadership position, thereby continuing to degrading their

varna further and consequently destroyed the movement along with the

hearts of thousands of devotees in the process. This was not me, it

was you and yours.

 

* ME AND MINE ? I AM NOT NOW AND HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY KIND OF AN

ISKCON AUTHORITY. SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE ONLY ISKCON GURU WHOSE

PICTURE HAS EVER BEEN ON MY ALTAR. HIS BOOKS ARE THE ONLY ONES I

EVER DISTRIBUTED. I FOUGHT THE CORRUPTIONS IN ISKCON EVERY WAY I

COULD. I SUFFERED THREATS AND ATTACKS FROM FANATICAL ISKCON DEVOTEES

WHO RESENTED MY EFFORTS TO INSPIRE REFORM IN THE ISKCON

ORGANIZATION. HOWEVER, I DON'T DAMN ALL ISKCON LEADERS AS YOU

APPARENTLY DO. I DON'T KNOW THEM ALL, AND AM NOT IN THE HABIT OF

PASSING JUDGEMENT ON PEOPLE I DON'T KNOW.

 

If you are not subject to me or under my

protection you cannot hold me responsible for the bad out came of

your social fiscal.

My protective ability? No one of my family members or friends has

ever been hurt in my association or presents. I never failed to

protect someone under my subjugation, be it intimate or extended. My

wife and I cannot count how many times I have come to her rescue,

physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, or any other way you

can think. She is passionate fire aloud to burn with no hindrance and

given high encouragement in her varna under full protection, as are

my six passionate sons and highly qualified, beautiful daughter. They

are the Royal vaisnava family of ISKCON whether you agree or not, I

claim. If you or any devotees gives the chance I can put up in

spades, other wise you need to shut up.

 

*I AM VERY HAPPY TO HEAR OF YOUR SUCCESSFUL PROTECTION OF YOUR

FAMILY. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF SOME FANATICS WHO DIDN'T EVEN KNOW

YOU WERE TERRORIZING YOUR WHOLE FAMILY, LIKE THEY HAVE TERRORIZED

MINE ? I HAVE PARENTS, SIBLINGS, CHILDREN AND MANY GRANDCHILDREN,

AND MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN ESPECIALLY HAVE HAD THEIR SECURITY

EFFECTED BY THE THREATS AND ATTACKS OF FANATICAL DEVOTEES WHO TARGET

ME JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT I AM AN ISKCON GURU, OR A HOMOSEXUAL,

OR A JEW, OR BECAUSE THEY HATE CHRISTIANITY / CATHOLICISM.

YOU SHOULD CONSIDER HOW YOUR LUMPING-IN, THREATENING AND DAMNING

RHETORIC SOUNDS TO ME, WHEN I HAVE THE SECURITY OF ALL THESE PEOPLE

TO CONSIDER.

 

 

I was always the first to protect distressed devotees that came to

me for support. Whether in the airport, temple or on street sankirtan

and not like a gunda doing the biding of poison vani corrupt leaders

either. My wife wears kumkum in her part because I fought her family

and won her like a ksatriya does. Though I did not kill her older

brothers we were close to that, but I used restraint as should be

applied to a given situation taking into account the consequences,

place and circumstance involved.

 

*YOUR TALK OF KILLING IS VERY TROUBLING. YOU SPEAK OF RESTRAINT AND

CONSEQUENCES BUT NOT OF LOVE AND SORROW ABOUT THE SITUATION, OR

CONCERN ABOUT HER BROTHERS. YOU SPEAK OF YOUR WIFE AS IF SHE WAS A

TROPHY OR POSSESSION. YOU SAY YOU PROTECTED DEVOTEES, BUT YOU SOUND

LIKE A VERY COLD KILLER, NOT A COMPASSIONATE PROTECTOR.

 

 

The ultimate homosex act is sodomy,

 

* SODOMY IS NOT AN EXCLUSIVELY HOMOSEXUAL ACT, AND FURTHERMORE, IT IS

ALWAYS A PHYSIOLOGICAL APPROXIMATION OF HETEROSEXUAL INTERCOURSE.

IT OCCURS PERVASIVELY IN NATURE, ALWAYS AS AN APPROXIMATION OF AND

SUBSTITUTE FOR HETEROSEXUAL INTERCOURSE. THUS EVEN BETWEEN TWO

MALES, IT IS IN EVERY ACT, AN EXPRESSION OF SEXUALLY DIMORPHIC (TWO

SEXED) BEHAVIOR, IN WHICH ONE PERSON IS ASSUMING THE ROLE OF THE

RECEIVER OR FEMALE PARTNER.

IN CONTRAST TO THIS IS MANUAL OR OTHER SAME-SEX FORMS OF STIMULATION,

WHICH MAY BE A PURELY HOMOSEXUAL ACTS, WITHOUT ANY MALE-FEMALE (GIVER-

RECEIVER) DYNAMIC TO THEM.

 

not masturbation.

 

*THIS IS APURELY HOMOSEXUAL ACT, WITH NO COMPLIMENTARY GIVER-RECEIVER

OR 'MALE-FEMALE' ASPECT TO IT.

 

And sex is

not all one!

 

* AGREED ! BUT DON'T KID YOURSELF THAT MASTURBATION IS NOT A

HOMOSEXUAL ACT !

 

There are varying degrees of sinful sex life, not all

equal in reaction or action. Just like stealing, some times it is

aloud.

 

*THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE 'ITS OK IF ITS FOR KRISHNA' IDEA.

 

And masturbation is not as low an act as homosex.

 

*WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MANUALLY STIMULATING YOUR OWN

GENITALS OR SOME OTHER GUY'S ? MASTURBATORS NEED TO FACE REALITY.

ESPECIALLY HOMOPHOBIC PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO BECOME HONEST AND

HUMBLE ABOUT THIS ISSUE. IF YOU ARE A GUY, AND YOU ARE HAVING SEX

WITH YOUR OWN BODY, YOU ARE HAVING SEX WITH A GUY, "HOMSEX",

PERIOD. YOU CANNOT DENY IT. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE IT TO ANYONE FROM

SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BOOKS. IT IS THE SIMPLE SELF-EVIDENT FACT.

CONSIDERING THAT MOST MEN HAVE DONE IT AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER, THEY

SHOULD JUST BECOME HONEST AND HUMBLE AND REALIZE HOW SILLY IT IS FOR

THEM TO HATE HOMOSEXUALS WHO DO THE SAME THINGS TO EACHOTHER.

PHYSIOLOGICALLY THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL IN MANY HOMOSEXUAL AND

MASTURBATORY ACTS. IN CATHOLICISM, MASTURBATION IS CONSIDERED A

SIN / ILICIT SEX TOO. IT IS CONSIDERED A SIN AGAINST ONE'S OWN

BODY, AND AGAINST ONE'S WIFE, IF MARRIED. IT IS SINFUL BECAUSE IT

IS NOT AN OTHER-ORIENTED ACT OF LOVE, BUT A FORM OF SELF-ISOLATING

SELFISH INDULGENCE.

 

 

Other wise

show by vani, not by repeating poison rhetoric to continue propping

up a degraded concept not as of yet proved by vani. I have made my

point on that Vaikuntha site you saw. This is the siddhanta exchange

that is needed, like istagosthi. Vani then siddhanta. I'm feeling

feisty and Prabhupada gave me you, so lets do this like the ksatriya

you say you are.

 

*PRABHUPADA GAVE ME YOU ? LETS DO THIS LIKE THE KSHATRIYA YOU SAY

YOU ARE ?

TO SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN GETTING DEATH THREATS, THIS SOUNDS VERY

THREATENING.

DO YOU MEAN FOR IT TO ? OR ARE YOU COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS AND

INSENSITIVE TO HOW YOU SOUND TO OTHERS ?

I HAVE NO DESIRE TO FIGHT WITH YOU, BUT I DON'T LIKE BEING THREATENED

EITHER. I ESPECIALLY DON'T LIKE IT THAT MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS ARE

FRIGHTENED BY THE BLANKET DAMNATIONS, PERSONAL ERRONEOUS JUDGEMENTS

AND VIOLENT RHETORIC OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU. PLEASE CONSIDER HOW YOUR

OWN WORDS AND BEHAVIOR MIGHT CONCERN OTHERS, AND PUT THEM ON THE

DEFENSIVE.

 

WISHING YOU PEACE AND PREMA,

 

BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI

 

Thank you, Hare Krsna. Caturbahu dasa Bhakti