Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 JESUS CHRIST Who is a Christian? 750309rc.lon Conversations Reporter: Can you tell me how your teaching relates to the Bible, to the Christian teaching? Prabhupada: Christian teaching is good. It is giving idea of God. But who is following Christian teaching? That is the problem. Nobody is following. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and the Christian people are very expert in killing. Do you admit or not? Reporter: I admit. Prabhupada: Just see. THEN WHO IS A CHRISTIAN? If one does not follow the instruction of Christ, then would you call him a Christian? Reporter: No. Prabhupada: That's it. That is the problem. Reporte: Is there any reason why you teach your followers the Bhagavad-gita rather than the Bible? Prabhupada: The teaching is the same. The teaching is the same. What Lord Jesus Christ taught and what we are... (aside:) Aiye. The teaching is the same. But who is following? That is the difficulty. Reporter: I see. So you don't think that... Prabhupada: The difficulty has arisen--I am claiming to be Hindu, but I am not following the Vedic rules. You are claiming to be Christian, but you are not following the Christian rules. This is going on all over the world. "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" misinterpreted 71-10-22 Letter: Rayarama I am so glad to learn that you are eager to preach but we should know it that we cannot preach without being solid in our standing as devotee. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "apani acari prabhu jivare sikhaya." This means that Lord Caitanya wanted that one should preach by behaving himself exactly what he preaches. So our Krsna consciousness movement, preaching, depends on personal behavior. If you want to preach the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ on the principles of Bhagavad-gita you will find so many differences. THOSE WHO ARE FOLLOWING JESUS CHRIST, LET THEM FOLLOW STRICTLY TO THE PRINCIPLES OF THE BIBLE. "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" IS NOW BEING MISINTERPRETED BY CHRISTIAN PRIESTS. NOW THEY SAY "THOU SHALL NOT MURDER." THIS MEANS TRYING TO SAVE THEMSELVES FROM THE CRIME OF ANIMAL KILLING. SO YOU CANNOT TEACH SUCH UNSCRUPLED FOLLOWERS THE MESSAGE OF BHAGAVAD-GITA. The Anointed One (KRISHNA). 69-08-31 Letter: Syamasundara Actually our Krishna Conscious movement is genuine Christian movement. CHRIST MEANS KRISHNA, LOVE OF GODHEAD, WHO HAS HIS FACE ANNOINTED WITH TILAK. There is a word Kristos in the Greek dictionary, and this word is supposed to be borrowed from the Sanskrit word "Krishna," and Christ is derived from Kristos. Vasudeva Datta compared to Jesus Christ Madhya 15.163 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura gives the following commentary on this verse. In the Western countries, Christians believe that Lord Jesus Christ, their spiritual master, appeared in order to eradicate all the sins of his disciples. To this end, Lord Jesus Christ appeared and disappeared. HERE, HOWEVER, WE FIND SRI VASUDEVA DATTA THAKURA AND SRILA HARIDASA THAKURA TO BE MANY MILLIONS OF TIMES MORE ADVANCED EVEN WHEN COMPARED TO LORD JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST RELIEVED ONLY HIS FOLLOWERS FROM ALL SINFUL REACTIONS, BUT VASUDEVA DATTA IS HERE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE SINS OF EVERYONE IN THE UNIVERSE. A Vaisnava is so liberal that he is prepared to risk everything to rescue conditioned souls from material existence. Srila Vasudeva Datta Thakura is universal love itself, for he was willing to sacrifice everything and fully engage in the service of the Supreme. Srila Vasudeva Datta knew very well that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was the original Personality of Godhead. He was transcendence itself, above the material conception of illusion and maya. LORD JESUS CHRIST CERTAINLY FINISHED THE SINFUL REACTIONS OF HIS FOLLOWERS BY HIS MERCY, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE COMPLETELY DELIVERED THEM FROM THE PANGS OF MATERIAL EXISTENCE. A PERSON MAY BE RELIEVED FROM SINS ONCE, BUT IT IS A PRACTICE AMONG CHRISTIANS TO CONFESS SINS AND YET COMMIT THEM AGAIN. BY GETTING FREED FROM SINS AND AGAIN ENGAGING IN THEM, ONE CANNOT ATTAIN FREEDOM FROM THE PANGS OF MATERIAL EXISTENCE. A diseased person may go to a physician for relief, but after he leaves the hospital he may again be infected due to his unclean habits. Thus material existence continues. Srila Vasudeva Datta wanted to completely relieve the conditioned souls from material existence so that they would no longer have an opportunity to commit sinful acts. This is the difference between Srila Vasudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. IT IS A GREAT OFFENSE TO RECEIVE PARDON FOR SINS AND THEN COMMIT THE SAME SINS AGAIN. SUCH AN OFFENSE IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE SINFUL ACTIVITY ITSELF. Risked his life amongst fanatics 70-01-21 Letter: Yeager Regarding your question that "the devotees are more kind than the Lord because they understand the purpose of the Lord," I may inform you that the Lord's advice to His devotee (pointing out to Arjuna) is that one should not speak about God-consciousness to a person who is neither a devotee nor has undergone any disciplinary methods. But a devotee sometimes takes the risk of approaching nondevotee rascals even at the cost of life. The best example is your Christian religion's Lord Jesus Christ. LORD JESUS CHRIST RISKED HIS LIFE FOR SPEAKING GOD-CONSCIOUSNESS AMONGST A PEOPLE WHO WERE FANATICS. A similar incident is there in the action of Lord Nityananda. Trinity: Visnu, Paramatma, and jiva. 68-04-19 Letter: Sivananda REGARDING THE CHRISTIAN'S TRINITY, I BELIEVE IT IS CALLED GOD, THE HOLY GHOST, AND THE SON. PERSON IN KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS ACCEPTS THIS BY THE NAME VISNU, PARAMATMA, AND JIVA. GOD IS A PERSON, THE HOLY SPIRIT OR THE SUPERSOUL IS A PERSON, AND THE LIVING ENTITY IS ALSO A PERSON. ALSO, MARY IS THE REPRESENTATION OF THE ENERGY OF GOD. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. BUT THERE IS NO CLASH BETWEEN THE BIBLE AND THE VEDAS, SIMPLY SOME PEOPLE FORMULATE THEIR PERSONAL IDEAS AND CAUSE QUARRELINGS. NOBODY CAN SAY THE BIBLE WAS MEANT FOR THE SAME CLASS OF MEN AS THE BHAGAVAD-GITA. AND BHAGAVAD-GITA IS THE ABC'S OF SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE. BEYOND THAT IS SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM. HOW GREAT SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS NOBODY CAN IMAGINE. AND BEYOND THAT IS CAITANYA CARITAMRTA. BUT BEGINNING FROM THE BIBLE OR KORAN, ON UP THE PRINCIPLE REMAINS THE SAME. JUST LIKE BEGINNING FROM THE POCKET DICTIONARY, UP Resurrection of spiritual body 690103BG.LA Lectures Devotee: Prabhupada? Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth? Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? ORDINARY BODY CANNOT BE RESURRECTED. HE APPEARED IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that "Lord, excuse these persons," who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that "These rascals, they are killing me, but... They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing." You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee's qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. And he could not be killed. That he knew. But those rascals, they thought they were killing Jesus Christ. Disobey Ten commandments, you are not a Christian. You are heathen. 760515mw.hon Conversations Pusta Krsna: They counter that if God is all-powerful, He can do anything. So why not He can create a soul and that soul can then be eternal from that point? Prabhupada: Hm? Pusta Krsna: The Christian may argue that God is all-powerful, so God has created the soul, and from that point the soul is eternal. Prabhupada: Soul is eternal, we admit. Pusta Krsna: But only from that point, not in the past. Prabhupada: Not in the past? Pusta Krsna: Yes, because according to Biblical philosophy you only have one lifetime in this world. Prabhupada: THEN WHO GOES TO HEAVEN? Pusta Krsna: Persons who adopt the principles. Prabhupada: And if one life, then who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? Pusta Krsna: Very few go to heaven. Prabhupada: Anyone, if he goes to hell or heaven, then why do you say "one life"? Then another life. Otherwise what is the meaning of going to heaven or hell? Hari-sauri: No. They get one chance to good or bad, and then finish. Prabhupada: Eh? Hari-sauri: They get one chance. Do good or bad. Then you either go to heaven or to hell. But you don't get another chance. Prabhupada: BUT IF HE GOES HEAVEN MEANS THERE IS ANOTHER LIFE. HOW DO YOU SAY "ONE LIFE"? THIS IS DEFECTIVE PHILOSOPHY. Pusta Krsna: But this is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept. Prabhupada: Eh? Pusta Krsna: This is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept. Prabhupada: God, if He says something unreasonable, how it can be accepted? You say, "one life." Then who goes to the next life? That is defective. Why do you not talk back? Pusta Krsna: (break) ...cannot explain why some people are born in a more pious setting and some people are born in a more impious setting. Prabhupada: Because they do not know the karma. Karmana daiva netrena. According to one's activities, pious or impious, he gets the next birth. That is quite reasonable. But they do not believe in karma. When I was student in Scottish Churches College, so we had to attend class, half an hour, Bible. So the Dr. Urquhart, he did.... The argument was: "So if karma is there and I am suffering for my karma, who is the witness?" But because they do not know that the witness is God. Pusta Krsna: He asked that question? Prabhupada: Yes, he asked that question. (break) Paramatma.... They say "Holy Ghost." What is that Holy Ghost? Pusta Krsna: The Holy Ghost is supposed to give knowledge to persons who have embraced the teaching. Prabhupada: THEREFORE HE IS SEEING WHAT YOU ARE DOING. SO ACCORDING TO YOUR ACTION, THE HOLY GHOST GIVES YOU ANOTHER BIRTH. (break) ...sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati. (break)...dictating everyone's heart, and He is observing. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani mayaya. Pusta Krsna: (break) ...contends that if a person does not become fully aware in this lifetime of God, then they don't have another chance, and they are condemned to hell for eternity. Prabhupada: THE HELL OR HEAVEN DOESN'T MATTER. THE NEXT LIFE IS THERE. HOW YOU SAY "ONE LIFE"? THAT IS DEFECTIVE THEORY. THEREFORE THIS PHILOSOPHY CANNOT BE ACCEPTED. ANYTHING WHICH IS DEFECTIVE IS NOT TO BE ACCEPTED. Pusta Krsna: Simply dogma. Prabhupada: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process. Hari-sauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy. Hayagriva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life. Prabhupada: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy. Hayagriva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers. Prabhupada: That is all defective, unscrupulous. Radhavallabha: (break) ...come up to us on sankirtana, and they are smoking a cigarette, and they say, "Do you accept Jesus Christ?" Prabhupada: Hm? Radhavallabha: They say, "You cannot be successful unless you accept Jesus Christ like us." But they were smoking. Prabhupada: WE ACCEPT. RATHER, YOU DO NOT ACCEPT. JESUS CHRIST SAID "THOU SHALL NOT KILL." WE STRICTLY OBSERVE THAT, BUT YOU KILL. YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. Hari-sauri: "But that's just an ideal, the Ten Commandments. You're not expected to follow." Prabhupada: No, that is your explanation. That is your concoction. (break) ....take it. AS SOON AS YOU DISOBEY TEN COMMANDMENTS, YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. YOU ARE HEATHEN. (break) AND THE THING IS THAT RELIGIOUS FAITH SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED ON PHILOSOPHY BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS GOT SOME, HIS OWN CONCOCTED FAITH. THAT IS NOT PHILOSOPHY. FAITH IS DIFFERENT. "I BELIEVE,YOU BELIEVE,I DO NOT BELIEVE"--THAT IS NOT PHILOSOPHY. (BREAK) ...PHILOSOPHY IN BHAGAVAD-GITA THAT ASMIN DEHE.... DEHINO 'SMIN YATHA DEHE, THERE IS SOUL. THIS IS PHILOSOPHY. RELIGION WITHOUT PHILOSOPHY IS SENTIMENT, AND PHILOSOPHY WITHOUT RELIGION IS MENTAL CONCOCTION. SO BOTH OF THEM SHOULD BE COMBINED. THEN IT IS PERFECT. Pusta Krsna: (break) ...can be given, though, that man's logic is so tiny, pea brain, and God's logic is so great, so how can actually man discuss the logic of God? Prabhupada: Hm? Pusta Krsna: The argument is given that God is infinitely great. Prabhupada: Then don't discuss. Sleep. If you cannot understand God's logic and God's philosophy, then don't discuss. Stop discuss. Radhavallabha: Jewish people say that you can't chant the name of God because it is too sacred. Prabhupada: YES, TOO SACRED, THAT'S.... ACTUALLY THAT'S A FACT. AND THOSE WHO ARE TOO SINFUL, THEY CANNOT CHANT. (BREAK) ...THESE TEN KINDS OF OFFENSES. Radhavallabha: (break) ...that God has put the world here for us to enjoy, so we will please Him by enjoying it. (break) Prabhupada: You go at four o'clock to your working place and come at night, ten. Is that enjoyment? Radhavallabha: But on the weekend we can go to the beach. And we can eat whatever we want. Prabhupada: No, no, you can go to hell also. Different thing.... (break) ....jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanu. That is there. If you are suffering from disease, where is enjoyment? Mental discomfort, bodily discomfort. You are taking thrice pills for tranquillity. Is that enjoyment? Radhavallabha: They say you have to take the good with the bad. Prabhupada: This nonsense enjoyment. Fool's paradise. For keeping the mind in tranquillity he is taking four times pills. For sleeping, he is taking pill. Does he enjoy that? Disciplic Succession? 70-07-19 Letter: Vrndavana Candra Question the fifth: If Mohammed as the servant of God and Lord Jesus Christ is the son of God, then where is the break of the disciplic succession. After all the disciplic sucession is beginning from God, so how do you find that there is no disciplic succession? If the original tree has branches, twigs and leaves and they are in touch with the original tree, it is alright. The test is whether the line is in touch with the Supreme--that is all. ALTHOUGH MOHAMMED AND JESUS CHRIST APPEARED IN THE KALI YUGA THEIR INSTRUCTION IS AS IT IS BECAUSE THE PERSONS TO WHOM THEY HAD TO SPEAK COULD NOT UNDERSTAND ANY MORE AND THEY FIND IT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND EVEN THAT MUCH. Father and son 69-12-08 Letter: Sucandra You have asked to know what is the difference between Jesus Christ and Krishna. THAT WE HAVE SEVERAL TIMES EXPLAINED IN MANY MEETINGS, THAT KRISHNA IS GOD AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD. AND AS THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FATHER AND SON, SO THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN KRISHNA AND LORD JESUS CHRIST; BUT STILL THE SON IS NEVER EQUAL TO THE FATHER. So you have got advantage of reading our many books for advancement of knowledge. The best thing will be for you to engage your time more in Sankirtana Party and reading our Krishna Consciousness literature. Not conditioned saktyavesa avatara 68-11-14 Letter: Aniruddha Your next question, "Is a pure devotee eternally liberated and if so is he at any time a conditioned soul? We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated? When Lord Christ appeared he seemed to be conditioned in his growth. Was he a specific incarnation or a conditioned soul who became liberated?" You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned. Because we cannot trace out the history or the date when we became conditioned, therefore it is technically called eternally conditioned. Otherwise the living entity is not actually conditioned. A living entity is always pure. But he is prone to be attracted by material enjoyment and as soon as he agrees to place himself in material enjoyment, he becomes conditioned, but that is not permanent. Therefore a living entity is called on the marginal state, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. These are very intelligent questions. And I am very glad that you are putting such intelligent questions and trying to understand it. It is very good. But best thing is that one should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it. When a man is in diseased condition he should try to get out of diseased condition without harassing his brain when the disease has begun. But it is to be understood that the disease is not our constant companion, it is temporary. So the best thing is to cure the disease, and not waste our time to find out the date when it began. Forgetfulness of Krishna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krishna Consciousness, and get out of the disease, that is healthy life. YES, LORD JESUS WAS JIVATATTVA. HE IS NOT VISNU TATTVA. WHEN A JIVA TATTVA BECOMES SPECIFICALLY EMPOWERED BY THE LORD, HE IS CALLED SAKTYAVESA AVATARA. LORD BUDDHA AND LORD JESUS CHRIST WERE IN THIS GROUP OF SAKTYAVESA AVATARA.. BUT THEY WERE NOT IN CONDITIONED STATE WHEN THEY APPEARED; THEY CAME TO TEACH HERE. Wine restricted 69-02-10 Letter: Govinda Regarding Karatieya, I am sorry to inform you that all of a sudden he has been captivated by maya, and since yesterday, he has left my company. The day before yesterday afternoon, he was absent for more than three hours and when he came back, he explained that he was out walking in the street. Later on, it was found that he went to see a Christian priest who had impressed upon his mind that one can drink wine after offering it to Lord Christ on the first Friday of every month. I had been informed by Karatieya that before his coming to our Krishna Consciousness camp he was drinking too much. So now he wanted to give me evidence that drinking was good when it is offered to Lord Christ. I tried to convince him that drinking is not at all good. THE VERY FACT THAT ONE SHOULD DRINK ON THE FIRST FRIDAY OF EACH MONTH MEANS IT IS RIGIDLY RESTRICTED; ONE CAN DRINK ONLY ONCE EVERY MONTH, BUT IN THE CASE OF BREAD, IT IS SAID THAT ONE SHOULD PRAY DAILY FOR BREAD FROM THE LORD. In this way there was some remonstration, but he was silently hearing from me while being not at all satisfied. And what class of preaching can be made to such persons? 69-10-31 Letter: Satsvarupa Now coming to some other points discussed in the Cathedral Sermons pamphlet, we may take notice of the writer's statement which may help us in understanding the real position of Christian religion. In one of the statements he says the Bishop Dean, the former Executive Officer of the Anglican Communion, said to the general Synod of the Anglican Church of Canada last month that he gives the church as it exists today ten more years of life. The reason the church was dying he said was because it had become irrelevant. This means that the church people no more can convince the advanced, educated men of the present day. IN ANOTHER PLACE HE SAYS IN DISCUSSING THE TEN COMMANDENTS OF THE BIBLE ABOUT THE SANCTITY OF (HUMAN LIFE). INSTEAD OF EXACTLY QUOTING THE COMMANDMENT "THOU SHALT NOT KILL," HE REPLACES BY HIS OWN WORDS "THOU SHALT DO NO MURDER". BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW HIS OWN WORDS REFLECT TO THE THEN SOCIETY WHEREIN LORD JESUS CHRIST WAS PREACHING. TO SAY TO HIS AUDIENCE, "THOU SHALT DO NO MURDER" MEANS THEY WERE VERY MUCH ACCUSTOMED TO COMMIT MURDER. SO WHAT IS THE POSITION OF THAT SOCIETY WHERE THE MEMBERS ARE ACCUSTOMED TO COMMIT MURDER, AND WHAT CLASS OF PREACHING CAN BE MADE TO SUCH PERSONS? AS WE SEE IN ANOTHER RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLE THERE IS INSTRUCTION THAT HENCEFORWARD YOU SHALL NOT CO-HABIT WITH YOUR MOTHER. SO WE HAVE TO JUDGE SUCH SOCIETIES WHERE THERE ARE MURDERERS AND THOSE HAVING SEX LIFE WITH THEIR MOTHERS, WHAT KIND OF MEN THEY ARE. In the Bhagavad-gita the religious principles are divided into three categories: in the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance. Generally, all so-called principles are in the modes of passion and ignorance. Maybe there are some moral instructions, but moral instructions without God-consciousness is impossible to follow. In another place the gentleman quotes one book written by Prof. Charles Smith. THE BOOK'S NAME IS "THE PARADOX OF JESUS IN THE GOSPELS". IN THIS BOOK IT IS ADMITTED THAT ALL THE STATEMENTS IN THE BIBLE ARE NOT DIRECTLY SPOKEN BY JESUS. SOME OF THEM ARE STAGED THROUGH THE MOUTH OF JESUS CHRIST; AND SPECIFICALLY THIS PASSAGE: "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT. NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME." THIS GENTLEMAN ADMITS THAT IT IS PUT INTO THE MOUTH OF JESUS BECAUSE THAT IS THE LITERARY CONVENTION OF THE AUTHOR OF THE 4TH GOSPEL. SUCH KINDS OF OBSERVATIONS DEFINITELY SUGGESTS THAT THERE ARE MANY PASSAGES IN THE GOSPEL WHICH ARE LATER ON SET UP TO BE SPOKEN BY LORD JESUS CHRIST, BUT ACTUALLY THEY WERE MANUFACTURED BY DIFFERENT DEVOTEES. So far as our Bhagavad-gita is concerned, we do not find any such thing. Everywhere it is stated SRI BHAGAVAN UVACA: THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD SAID. And all the acaryas have accepted these words as they are spoken by the Lord. No authorized acharya has ever commented that it was put into the mouth of Krishna by Vyasadeva or Sanjaya or any other person. I GIVE YOU ALL THESE HINTS NOT FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION, BUT FOR YOUR PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING TO KNOW THE RESPECTIVE POSITIONS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES. OURS IS TRANSCENDENTAL BECAUSE WE ARE NOT VERY MUCH CONCERNED WITH THE MINOR MORAL OR IMMORAL PRINCIPLES, ALTHOUGH EACH AND EVERY DEVOTEE IS A FIRST CLASS MORALIST. BUT OUR RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES OR NATURAL OCCUPATIONAL DUTY IS TO LEARN HOW TO LOVE KRISHNA. We are practicing this and we are teaching this. So let us very steadily stick to our principles and our movement will surely come out successful. They can go to heaven, that is all. 70-03-02 Letter: Bhagavan REGARDING THE END OF DEVOTEES OF LORD JESUS CHRIST, THEY CAN GO TO HEAVEN, THAT IS ALL. THAT IS A PLANET IN THE MATERIAL WORLD. A devotee of Lord Jesus Christ is one who is strictly following the ten commandments. Now just like in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" this is a moral instruction for the sinful man. Similarly Lord Buddha also emphasized ahimsa paramadharma "the highest religion is nonviolence." SO THESE INSTRUCTIONS ARE FOR THE SINFUL MEN. WHEN ONE IS PIOUS, INSTEAD OF BEING SINFUL, HE IS PROMOTED TO THE HIGHER PLANETARY SYSTEMS LIKE JANALOKA, MAHALOKA, OR TAPALOKA AND THEY ARE ABOVE THE PLANET SVARGALOKA. SO PERSONS WHO ARE CLEANSED OF SINFUL LIFE BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR SPIRITUAL LIFE. FROM THE INSTRUCTIONS OF LORD JESUS CHRIST WE FIND THAT THE STRESS IS GIVEN TO MAKE MEN FREE FROM SINFUL LIFE--SUCH AS "THOU SHALT NOT KILLTHOU SHALT NOT COVET"--LIKE THAT. THEREFORE THE CONCLUSION IS THAT THE DEVOTEES OF LORD JESUS CHRIST ARE PROMOTED TO THE HEAVENLY PLANETS WHICH ARE WITHIN THIS MATERIAL WORLD. Liberation (liberation freedom from modes of passion and ignorance is also liberation) material mode of goodness promotes to heaven. PQPA 9 Srila Prabhupada: ACTUALLY, ONE WHO IS GUIDED BY JESUS CHRIST WILL CERTAINLY GET LIBERATION. BUT IT IS VERY HARD TO FIND A MAN WHO IS ACTUALLY BEING GUIDED BY JESUS CHRIST. Bob: What about the "Jesus freaks," the young people that have joined the Jesus movement? They read the Bible very often, and they try to-- Srila Prabhupada: But violence is against the Bible's injunctions. How can they kill if they are following the Bible? Bob: I asked one this, and he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. Srila Prabhupada: That's all right. He may eat anything. He is powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill. You must stop killing." He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot compare to Jesus Christ. YOU CANNOT IMITATE JESUS CHRIST; YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY HIS ORDER. THEN YOU ARE GUIDED BY JESUS CHRIST. THAT IS ACTUALLY OBEDIENCE. That is explained in the Bhagavata. One who is isvara, who is empowered, can do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order: "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. You say that Jesus Christ ate meat. ADMITTING THAT, YOU DO NOT KNOW IN WHAT CONDITION HE ATE MEAT. HE IS HIMSELF EATING MEAT, BUT HE IS ADVISING OTHERS NOT TO KILL. DO YOU THINK THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS CONTRADICTING HIMSELF? Bob: No. Srila Prabhupada: He cannot do that. That is real faith in him--that he cannot do that. So why has he eaten meat? He knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow. That is the real system. YOU ARE NOT JESUS CHRIST; YOU CANNOT IMITATE HIM. HE HAS SACRIFICED HIS LIFE FOR GOD. CAN YOU DO THAT? SO WHY SHALL YOU IMITATE JESUS CHRIST? YOU ARE IMITATING JESUS CHRIST BY EATING MEAT. WHY NOT IMITATE JESUS CHRIST AND SACRIFICE YOUR LIFE FOR SPREADING GOD CONSCIOUSNESS? What do you think? Yes, when you preach you can say what you think. They are so-called Christians--but what are they doing for God? Just consider the sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate the sun--"Oh, here is the sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine"--can you? Jesus Christ is powerful; he can do everything. But we cannot imitate; we have to simply abide by his order. That is real Christianity. We cannot imitate a powerful man. That is wrong. IN OUR VEDIC LITERATURE, THERE WAS A POISON OCEAN, SO PEOPLE COULD NOT FIND OUT WHAT TO DO WITH IT. THEN LORD SIVA SAID, "ALL RIGHT, I'LL DRINK IT." SO HE DRANK THE WHOLE POISON OCEAN AND KEPT IT IN HIS THROAT. CAN YOU DRINK POISON? NOT THE OCEAN--JUST ONE CUP? SO HOW CAN WE IMITATE LORD SIVA? Lord Siva never advised that we drink poison. So you have to abide by the advice, not imitate. These LSD and marijuana people say that Lord Siva used to smoke ganja. But Lord Siva drank the whole poisoned ocean. Can you do that? Avoid dogmatic chained animals 70-04-28. Letter: Citsukhananda Regarding the disturbing groups of "Christians" so-called, that is alright. Let them follow Lord Jesus Christ. Regarding their dogmatic insistence, everyone thinks like that, so if one is not prepared to advance more, it is better to avoid them. IF ONE IS LIMITED BY SOME FORMULAS ONLY, HE IS DESCRIBED AS AN ANIMAL WHICH IS BOUND UP BY THE CHAIN OF THE MASTER AND CANNOT MOVE BEYOND THE LENGTH OF THE CHAIN. So we are concerned with persons who are not chained by anything. It is better for us to mind our own business than to divert our attention in the studies of other books. this was definitely forbidden by lord caitanya. 69-11-02 Letter: Hamsaduta Regarding your question about Lord Jesus Christ, we accept him as saktyavesa avatara. Lord Buddha is in the same category also. LORD BUDDHA IS MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY IN SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM AS INCARNATION OF GODHEAD, AND YET VAISNAVAS DO NOT ACCEPT HIS PHILOSOPHY, WHICH IS CLASSIFIED AS ATHEISM. SIMILARLY, EVEN IF WE ACCEPT LORD JESUS CHRIST AS SAKTYAVESA AVATARA., IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO ACCEPT HIS PHILOSOPHY. BUT WE HAVE ALL RESPECTS FOR HIM WITHOUT FAIL. Regarding books like Aquarian Gospel or even the Testiments, we cannot accept them as authorities because sometimes it is learnt that the words are not actually spoken by Christ, but they are so set up by the devotees. For example, in the Ten Commandments it is clearly stated "Thou shalt not kill", but some Bishop in Boston has changed it to "Thou shalt do no murder". THIS MEANS THE BISHOP WANTS TO KEEP HOLD FOR ANIMAL SLAUGHTER. SO DON'T BOTHER ABOUT ALL THESE LITERATURES. WE HAVE ALL RESPECT FOR THESE GREAT PREACHERS, BUT WE DO NOT REQUIRE TO STUDY BOOKS SAVE AND ACCEPT FOR SOME REFERENCE. WE MUST PUSH ON OUR PHILOSOPHY HOW TO LOVE GOD. OUR PROCESS IS SIMPLE. WE HAVE GOT VOLUMES OF BOOKS ALSO, SO IT IS BETTER FOR US TO MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS THAN TO DIVERT OUR ATTENTION IN THE STUDIES OF OTHER BOOKS. THIS WAS DEFINITELY FORBIDDEN BY LORD CAITANYA. After all, Krishna Consciousness philosophy is as old as 120 million years at the least. So nothing can be compared with our philosophy either in the matter of antiquity, philosophy, ethics, science, morality, etc., all in correct vision and approved by great stalwart acaryas. So far others are concerned, they cannot be compared even. FOR EXAMPLE, IF LORD JESUS CHRIST SAID "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", OR "THOU SHALT DO NO MURDER" TO THE PEOPLE, IT DOES NOT REFLECT VERY GOOD SOCIAL STRUCTURE OF THE AUDIENCE. Our philosophy is above all these things. Just like we prescribe to our students no illicit sex-life, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling, but they are not ends in themselves. The real end is how to serve Krishna and sacrifice everything for Him. And to learn this transcendental art we have got so many volumes of books. SO THE SUMMARY IS THAT INSTEAD OF DIVERTING OUR ATTENTION TO READ SUCH UNAUTHORIZED BOOKS, BETTER PAY OUR ATTENTION TO MORE AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA LITERATURE. These scriptures of the Buddhists and the Christians may be the words of God, but still the are not always applicable to us. It is just like a king may give some rules and regulations for some criminals in prison; but for the good citizens out of the prison these rules are not necessarily applicable. SO THESE CHRISTIAN AND BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES WERE DELIVERED FOR A DIFFERENT CLASS OF MEN, AND WE NEEDN'T SPEND OUR TIME IN STUDYING THEIR DOCTRINES. YOU SHOULD READ OUR OWN BOOKS OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND AS FAR AS POSSIBLE DO NOT TRY TO ENTER INTO CONTROVERSY. WE DO NOT CONCERN OURSELVES WITH ANY OTHER RELIGION. OUR RELIGION IS TO BECOME THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANT OF THE SERVANT OF KRISHNA. Where are the witnesses responsible for one's suffering the reactions of past karma? SB 6.1.42 P The members of some religious sects, especially Christians, do not believe in the reactions of karma. We once had a discussion with a learned Christian professor who argued that although people are generally punished after the witnesses of their misdeeds are examined, WHERE ARE THE WITNESSES RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE'S SUFFERING THE REACTIONS OF PAST KARMA? TO SUCH A PERSON THE ANSWER BY THE YAMADUTAS IS GIVEN HERE. A CONDITIONED SOUL THINKS THAT HE IS WORKING STEALTHILY AND THAT NO ONE CAN SEE HIS SINFUL ACTIVITIES, BUT WE CAN UNDERSTAND FROM THE SASTRAS THAT THERE ARE MANY WITNESSES, INCLUDING THE SUN, FIRE, SKY, AIR, MOON, DEMIGODS, EVENING, DAY, NIGHT, DIRECTIONS, WATER, LAND AND THE SUPERSOUL HIMSELF, WHO SITS WITH THE INDIVIDUAL SOUL WITHIN HIS HEART. Where is the dearth of witnesses? The witnesses and the Supreme Lord both exist, and therefore so many living entities are elevated to higher planetary systems or degraded to lower planetary systems, including the hellish planets. There are no discrepancies, for everything is arranged perfectly by the management of the Supreme God (svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca). The witnesses mentioned in this verse are also mentioned in other Vedic literatures: aditya-candrav anilo 'nalas ca dyaur bhumir apo hrdayam yamas ca ahas ca ratris ca ubhe ca sandhye dharmo 'pi janati narasya vrttam Cannot properly answer inquisitive followers, naturally those advanced in scientific knowledge and philosophy lose faith in such scriptures. Adi 17.169 "My dear Nimai Pandita, what You have said is all true. Our scriptures have developed only recently, and they are certainly not logical and philosophical. Adi 17.169P THE SASTRAS OF THE YAVANAS, OR MEAT-EATERS, ARE NOT ETERNAL SCRIPTURES. THEY HAVE BEEN FASHIONED RECENTLY, AND SOMETIMES THEY CONTRADICT ONE ANOTHER. THE SCRIPTURES OF THE YAVANAS ARE THREE: THE OLD TESTAMENT, THE NEW TESTAMENT AND THE KORAN. THEIR COMPILATION HAS A HISTORY; THEY ARE NOT ETERNAL LIKE THE VEDIC KNOWLEDGE. THEREFORE ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE THEIR ARGUMENTS AND REASONINGS, THEY ARE NOT VERY SOUND AND TRANSCENDENTAL. AS SUCH, MODERN PEOPLE ADVANCED IN SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY DEEM THESE SCRIPTURES UNACCEPTABLE. Sometimes Christian priests come to us inquiring, "Why are our followers neglecting our scriptures and accepting yours?" But when we ask them, "Your Bible says, 'Do not kill.' Why then are you killing so many animals daily?" they cannot answer. Some of them imperfectly answer that the animals have no souls. But then we ask them, "How do you know that animals have no souls? Animals and children are of the same nature. Does this mean that the children of human society also have no souls?" According to the Vedic scriptures, within the body is the owner of the body, the soul. In the Bhagavad-gita (2.13) it is said: dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati "As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change." Adi 17.169 The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth Because the soul is within the body, the body changes through so many forms. There is a soul within the body of every living entity, whether animal, tree, bird or human being, and the soul is transmigrating from one type of body to another. WHEN THE SCRIPTURES OF THE YAVANAS--NAMELY, THE OLD TESTAMENT, NEW TESTAMENT AND KORAN--CANNOT PROPERLY ANSWER INQUISITIVE FOLLOWERS, NATURALLY THOSE ADVANCED IN SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE AND PHILOSOPHY LOSE FAITH IN SUCH SCRIPTURES. The Kazi admitted this while talking with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The Kazi was a very intelligent person. He had full knowledge of his position, as stated in the following verse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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