Responses to BA Goswami 2

[Guest guest]

Date:5/3/2003 9:35:43 PM Eastern Standard Time

jammupress

Sir, if I may: Even the "scholars" [and a note about "scholars" at the end of

this note] are fully aware of the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (founder of the

Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam) did not "concoct" anything, due to the fact that

the information pertaining to Yuz Asaf, and his being equated to "Jesus,"

existed in documents hundreds of years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born.

Indeed, the information that existed [such as, for instance, the documents that

record the inscriptions on the Takhat Sulaiman monument, and that are recorded

in Khwaja Hassan Malik's book, Tarikh-i-Kashmir], and that equate Yuz Asaf with

"Isa" (Jesus) does not even appear in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's 1890 book, Masih

Hindustan Mein (Urdu), which was translated into English under the title, Jesus

in India, in 1939.

Khwaja Hassan Malik wrote Tarikh-i-Kashmir during the reign of Emperor Jahangir

(1605-1627).  Sir, that's 230 years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was born, and 284

years before the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam (founded in 1889) even existed. 

And here is what Khwaja Hassan Malik wrote in his HISTORY book of Kashmir:

"Maimar een satoon raj Bihishti Zargar. Sal panjah wa chahar," i.e., "The mason

of this piller [is] Bihishti Zargar.  Year fifty and four [of the Laukika Era,

or, 78 A.D.])"

"Een Satoon Bardast Khwaja Rukun bin Murjan," i.e., "Khwaja Rukun, son of

Murjan, erected this pillar."

"Dar een waqt Yuz Asaf da' wa-i-paighambari mikunad, Sal punjah wa chahar,"

i.e., "At this time Yuz Asaf proclaimed his prophethood.  Year fifty and four

[i.e., 78 A.D.]"

"Aishan Yusu paighambar-i-Bani Israel ast," i.e., He is Jesus, Prophet of the

Children of Israel." (Khwaja Hassan Malik, Tarikh-i-Kashmir, f. 56)

Do you see it sir?  "He is Jesus, Prophet of the Children of Israel."  Do you

see any "conspiratorial" message there?  None exists.  Again: The Kashmiri

tradition that Yuz Asaf and Jesus were one and the same people existed at least

230 years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was even born.  All that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

did was assemble some of the information and present it to people.

And it is the height of ignorance to even hint that Khwaja Hassan Malik was

involved in some "conspiracy" against Christianity, for a couple of reasons:

1. The general Muslim view is that Jesus was "taken up" physically to "heaven." 

So it is simply meaningless to even suggest that Khwaja Hassan Malik, back in

the 1600s when he wrote his book, was trying to "hurt" Christianity by

suggesting that Jesus came to Kashmir instead of going up to heaven.

So why would a Muslim historian record such a thing?  Because he was an

historian, and he reported what he saw inscribed on the Takhat Sulaiman

monument--that Yuz Asaf had arrived in Kashmir in 78 A.D., and that Yuz Asaf

and "Jesus" were one and the same individual.  He did just what any historian

would do, regardless of the Muslim religious views concerning Jesus being

"taken up" to heaven physically.

No where does Khwaja Hassan Malik try to make a big deal out of Yuz Asaf (Jesus)

arriving in Kashmir.  No where does he claim, "Ah ha!!!  We have DESTROYED

Christianity."  His writing is a history.  That's it.  Any conspiracies, sir,

appear to be in your mind.

2. Christians were of absolutely no consequence in Kashmir during the 1600s.  So

what was the need to create a "conspiracy," hum?  There did not exist any

movement (such as the Ahmadiyya Movement) that was dedicated to "destroying"

Christianity.

The inscriptions on the Takhat Sulaiman monument reveal NO connection to any

"conspiracy" whatsoever.  What it reveals is a history that details the date

and arrival of "Jesus" to Kashmir.  No "Ahmadis" existed when those

inscriptions were placed. 

Of course, I suppose that one can advance the ridiculous idea that Mirza Ghulam

Ahmad "traveled back in time 230 years" in order to "create a conspiracy."    

Anything's possible, hey?

Another document, Ikmal-ud-Din, was written 863 years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

was born, and that document records the arrival of Jesus to Kashmir.  But, here

again, I suppose it is possible that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad could have travelled

back in time 863 years to forge a document, so that once he was finally born,

and then wrote his book, he could "prove" that Jesus came to Kashmir.  Hmmm. 

I'm not so sure I'm ready to inject time-travel into this study.  But, again,

anything's possible, I suppose.

I can go on.  But let's leave that alone [for now], because I want to address

your Notovitch argument.  Oh, boy!  How far off can you get?  Not only has Dr.

Hassnain [who is not an Ahmadi Muslim], Aziz Kashmiri, and Dr. H. Juergen

Trebst of Erlangan, Germany (a friend) shown that the Moravian Mission diary

clear records the visit of Notovitch to Hemis (see:

http://www.tombofjesus.com/Notovichrap.htm#there ), but Notovitch and

Abdehenanda were only two of a good number of people who saw the documents at

Hemis:

 

Name of VisitorYear of visitReported

Nicholas Notovitch1887Saw document

Swami Abhedenanda1922Saw document

Nicholas Roerich and son1925Saw document

Mrs. Gasque1939Saw document: Shown to her by Lama Nawong Zangpo

E. Caspari1939Saw document: Shown to her by Lama Nawong Zangpo

Dr. R. Ravicz1973Oral reference: informed by Tibetan friend

U. Eichstadt1974Saw document.

Thare are no conspiracies, sir, other than those in your own mind.  What we do

have, though, is the accumulation of a lot of circumstantial evidence [and

since when has circumstantial evidence--often much more conclusive than the

"smoking gun"--been illegitimate?] that, when added together, all point to the

fact that Yuz Asaf (Jesus) lived a good portion of the remainder in his life in

Kashmir.  I've only supplied you with a couple of documents.  I can give you a

much larger list, if you wish.

I can only assume that Dr. Deardorff is correct: You have not studied the matter

at all.  Now, I too admit to having my doubts about the Talmud of Jmmanuel.  But

I can at least admit that this is due to my on prejudice regarding certain

connections of the Talmud to issues I have a hard time dealing with.  But can

you admit your prejudice? [it's glaring!]

You know nothing [i can tell] of the information that has been gathered

surrounding the issue of Jesus in Kashmir, yet you pontificate.  Have you read

Khwaja Nazir Ahmad's book, "Jesus in Heaven on Earth."  Are you familiar with

the Rauzat-us-Safa, Ikmal-ud-Din, The Tarikh-i-Kashmir, The

Tarikh-i-Kabir-i-Kashmir, the Wajees-ut-Tawarikh, The Bagh-i-Sulaiman, the

Ain-ul-Hayat, etc.?  Are you familiar with the fact that none of those books

have a single thing to do with the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam?

Are you aware that those books deal with history?  Are you aware that they do

not reveal any desire to "destroy" Christianity?  No, you are not.  There were

no masons in Kashmir in the 1600s (and before), sir.  You, in fact, are being

conspiratorial in your suggestions. You do this by doing precisely what

conspiracy theorists do: creating a long string of supposedly "connected"

people: "Rosicrucians, Masons, Theosophists and other 'esotericists'", as you

list.  Then you mention the Book of Mormon, the Protocols of the Elders of

Zion.

My God!  The Muslim historians who recorded the traditions of Kashmir would

laugh in your face were they here to read your absolutely fanciful, wild and

ridiculous charges.  You need to educate yourself [or simply keep quiet] before

you comment on anything related to the issue of Jesus in Kashmir.

The issue of Jesus in Kashmir has no connection to any European or

European-based masonic lodges or any other such group.  Do some study.

Last, regarding "scholars."  It is simply a fact that "scholars" and their "peer

review journals" are often 30 years behind others of us who are bold enough to

come out of the box and investigate information that is not "approved" by the

priests of scholardom, who, incidentally, have placed themselves on thrones as

infallible popes.

Thirty and more years ago, when "scholars" were lambasting acupuncture, tai chi,

yoga, and other beneficial and real practices, people like myself and others

were reading about them, advocating them and practicing them.  And

now--today--the "scholars" have finally come on board, and prestigious

institutions like the University of Chicago have their doctors work alongside

acupuncturists--right there at U of C.

The same is the case now.  Your "scholars" don't know anything about this

information.  The information is there.  They can look at it if they wish.  It

seems, as I recall, that you suggested that the material doesn't exist.  Whew! 

Where did you get that idea from?

The "scholars" don't want to deal with this information, for a couple of

reasons, one of which was explained to me by Dr. Deardorff a few years ago:

1. They generally do not like to risk their "reputations" by dealing with

subjects that their peers may deem "quaint."

2. Arrogance.

The information is there.  There are entire websites filled with documents on

Jesus in Kashmir.  Most likely the "scholars" will write about these documents

30--no, 50--years from now (if that), when they finally catch up to the rest of

us.  If you believe that all information has to first be "approved" by

"scholars" who don't even read the information, then you're in bad shape, sir,

in my humble opinion.

Regards,

Abubakr Ben Ishmael Salahuddin