China and India:return of the old empires

[Guest guest]

"...Another answer to the question how hatred morphed into

cooperation is

that both China and India are ancient empires that produced brilliant

civilizations. Empires are states that rule over a great diversity of

peoples and extend over huge tracts of lands. Civilizations are

cultures

on a vast scale. And culture can be defined as the ways people live,

work and think together.

 

Some empires rest on great civilizations, others do not. The former

last

very long while the latter do not. China and India are the world's

greatest examples of the former. And great empires like these seek

peace

and prosperity. It's the short-lived empires that stir up wars, like

the

ones led by Napoleon and Hitler.

 

The Indians and Chinese have three or four millennia of civilization

embedded in the minds and souls of their huge populations. Now they

also

have well-functioning states highly respected throughout the world.

It's

not coincidental that Indian and Chinese youngsters do well in many

areas of education. They are all immersed in stories about great

heroes

and heroines that mould their minds and give their souls direction.

Their most powerful direction is education.

 

Furthermore, both civilizations radiated out to many countries, near

and

far. These collateral youngsters perform just as well as those of the

root civilization. For one thing, they share the traditional stories

of

the root civilization. Even way back in history when foreigners ruled

India and China these rulers accepted much or all of the great

civilizations that surrounded them.

 

And over the centuries many of those foreign rulers gave their Indian

and Chinese subjects the peace that provided security to farmers,

traders and intellectuals. The rulers of both countries now know that

the combination of a strong state and a brilliant civilization can

give

their huge populations what most want, peace and prosperity."

ARTICLE STARTS AFTER COMMENTS BELOW.

 

 

 

 

HinduThought, "Ashok Chowgule" <ashokvc@c...>

wrote:

 

Would it not have been nicer if people like Romilla Thapar, the

journalists, academics, etc., of Indian origin, recognised the facts

stated herein by themselves? But, I guess a feature of Indian

intellectuals is to denigrate their own history and civilisation.

Clear

signs of a perverse mind.

 

Namaste.

Ashok Chowgule

 

 

-

"Rajeev Srinivasan (rediff.co.in)" <rajeevs@r...>

<indicjournalists>

Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:49 AM

[indicjournalists] return of the old empires

 

 

a little gee whiz (after all, china is india's implacable enemy, and

proves it via its sino islamic axis and containment of india), but the

man does speak a kernel of truth. pacific news service, interestingly,

is one of those 'progressive' media entities, and is associated with

the

rather leftist KPFA, berkeley, radio station.

 

now why is it that the indian english media never thinks along these

lines about civilization and culture? because it wouldn't be 'secular'

to admit that india has an indigenous culture, and, horrors, that

islam

and christianity and marxism didn't add a great deal to it?

 

rajeev

 

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?

article_id=6261b8c811

7ae9848d747eb3da747eeb

 

Return of the Old Empires: India and China

Commentary, Franz Schurmann,

Pacific News Service, Nov 26, 2003

Editor's Note: India and China, both with strong and prosperous

economies, have overcome old vehemence to shake hands across their

once

bloody border.

 

On Nov. 22, 2003, the prestigious French paper "Le Monde" ran the

headline "Huge Asian Common Market Working Better Than Europe's." The

two founders of the world's newest common market are China and India,

each with a population of over a billion, and each with high literacy

rates. Just a few years back, relations between the two countries were

terrible. How is it that now they are cooperating so well that Le

Monde

hailed it as a "new direction in (global) development?"

 

One answer is that both countries are sick and tired of their mutual

hatred of each other. The animosity started in 1959 when the Dalai

Lama

fled from Tibet to India, where he still lives. In 1962 the two

countries fought a war over Aksai-Chin, a barren plateau in the frozen

Himalayas. Neither side gained anything except deepening hatred.

 

However, the thaw in the relations between the two countries occurred

in

January 2002, when former Chinese Prime Minister Zhu Rongji visited

India. Zhu was the first high-ranking Chinese official to do so in 11

years. This time Zhu started a process that recently resulted in joint

maneuvers by the two navies in the East China Sea. Zhu also gave a

speech in Bangalore, India's information Technology (IT) hub. The gist

of the speech was that China excels in hardware while India excels in

software. And his punch line was that the two countries should work

together.

 

Two years later, Sino-Indian IT cooperation is moving at a fast pace.

An

example of this Sino-Indian common market is that NIIT Ltd, one of

India's biggest software producing firms, has landed a contract to

build

125 schools in China's 25 provinces. NIIT will teach 25,000 students

each year.

 

Another answer to the question how hatred morphed into cooperation is

that both China and India are ancient empires that produced brilliant

civilizations. Empires are states that rule over a great diversity of

peoples and extend over huge tracts of lands. Civilizations are

cultures

on a vast scale. And culture can be defined as the ways people live,

work and think together.

 

Some empires rest on great civilizations, others do not. The former

last

very long while the latter do not. China and India are the world's

greatest examples of the former. And great empires like these seek

peace

and prosperity. It's the short-lived empires that stir up wars, like

the

ones led by Napoleon and Hitler.

 

The Indians and Chinese have three or four millennia of civilization

embedded in the minds and souls of their huge populations. Now they

also

have well-functioning states highly respected throughout the world.

It's

not coincidental that Indian and Chinese youngsters do well in many

areas of education. They are all immersed in stories about great

heroes

and heroines that mould their minds and give their souls direction.

Their most powerful direction is education.

 

Furthermore, both civilizations radiated out to many countries, near

and

far. These collateral youngsters perform just as well as those of the

root civilization. For one thing, they share the traditional stories

of

the root civilization. Even way back in history when foreigners ruled

India and China these rulers accepted much or all of the great

civilizations that surrounded them.

 

And over the centuries many of those foreign rulers gave their Indian

and Chinese subjects the peace that provided security to farmers,

traders and intellectuals. The rulers of both countries now know that

the combination of a strong state and a brilliant civilization can

give

their huge populations what most want, peace and prosperity.

 

An answer to the question posed by Le Monde, why the new Sino-Indian

common market is doing better than the European Union (EU), is that

after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476 B.C., Europe

only

had only short-lived empires. Charlemagne's attempt lasted less than

two

decades.

 

Napoleon crowned himself Emperor in 1804 and met his Waterloo in 1815.

Hitler's Thousand Year Reich didn't even last a decade.

 

Around the beginning of the second millennium Europe did create a

civilization, the Renaissance, that still sends rays of knowledge and

beauty all over the world. But they were not able to create a

Roman-style empire in Europe.

 

Britain built a vast empire all over the world but shunned Europe.

France's dominion over Europe died at Waterloo. Like many empires,

Austria had great diversity but was never able to create a strong

state.

 

And today, while Europe is still struggling to build a strong European

state, India and China are using their historical capital to create

both

brilliant civilizations and strong states.

 

PNS Editor Franz Schurmann (fschurmann@p...) is emeritus

professor of sociology and history at U.C. Berkeley and the author of

numerous books.

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