Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Doctor Morales has written: "Of the many current peculiar concepts mistakenly ascribed to Hindu theology, one of the most widely misunderstood is the idea that Hinduism somehow teaches that all religions are equal…that all religions are the same, with the same purpose, goal, experientially tangible salvific state, and object of ultimate devotion. So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern Hindu teachings. Many Hindus are now completely convinced that this is actually what Hinduism teaches. ....Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included: Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic Hinduism." Dr Morales Dear Frank, Your attempt to make me a fool in public is nothing in comparison of your statement about our "swamiji". So I take voluntarely the risk of by defending the purpose of the mission of our spiritual master. Maybe I have not a clear understanding of those words when you said clearly AC Bhaktivedanta (the latest "swamiji") is one of those who have "thoughtlessly" (carelessly , insensately or inconsiderately -Webster dict.-) spread the notion (which one? all religions are the same, etc.) by yearning for popular following. Srila Prabhupada is the personality the most attentive to make distinction between by exemple, nirvesesa, sunyavadi and teach to his followers to make distinction. Are you? In this aspect what upsets me so is that your statements is mixing many impersonalist teachers with our master. After you said he is the one with many other who has repudiated this notion. Srila Prabhupada has not come for this purpose. He came to teach bhakti. Devotion to Krsna. As it is explained in Bhagavad gita, there is many diferent conception of religion . He came to teach the topmost reality not to revival a so called "authentic hinduism". This hinduism or castism is now working in our temple and we can see the result. So please make your hinduism your own aim but not the one of the Srila Prabhupada's mission. If I have read with dificulty your paper, you seem in return to have not understanding any of Srila Prabhupada's book by claiming he was repudiating with many other mayavadis the neo hinduism, to restablish a very hypothetical real hinduism you seem yearning to be followed by your listeners. So I can conclude either your answer contradicts your paper by telling something and is opposite about Srila Prabhupada or/and you have not a clear understanding of what Sanatana dharma is. University shows its limits in spiritual topics. The fact is that by an in depth analysis of your ideas, we can see a lot of confusion very difficult to discriminate clearly. You don't know Srila Prabhupada , our "Swamiji" , this is crystal clear, so please don't use his name to illustrate your own points. One more thing: Swami is the name of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada , so Swamiji takes a S ,as you would write Narayanaji with a N. Thank you Vrajananda das - Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales vediculture Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:24 PM [world-vedic] Re: FW: Radical Universalism Dear Yves,Namaste. Your message is, unfortunately, a prime example of why it's important that a person actually bother to read an article before trying to criticize the article. No where in my paper did I ever make the claim that Srila Prabhupada was a Radical Universalist. He very clearly was not. If you had bothered to actually read the article long enough to make it to the section called "Beacons of Hope", you would have seen that I went so far as to actually include Srila Prabhupada in a list of legitimate and bona fide gurus who I consider anti-Radical Universalists. Please take the time to actually read articles in the future!!From my paper (page 39):"Beacons of HopeFortunately, by no means have all present-day Hindu leaders allowed themselves to thoughtlessly succumb to the mind-numbing influence of Radical Universalism. Indeed, in the present generation we have been blessed with the sagacious guidance of many truly authentic traditionalist Hindu gurus and teachers. These gurus, many of whom represent some of the most ancient lineages (sampradayas) of classical Hinduism, have spoken out compellingly and courageously against both Radical Universalism and the neo-Hinduism from which it took birth, and have articulated the urgent need for the restoration of genuine and traditional Hinduism. Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included: Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic Hinduism."READ, READ, READ. Otherwise, there is always the risk of making a fool of oneself in public. Your Servant,Dr. Frank Gaetano MoralesAt 11:52 AM 12/29/04, you wrote: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:13 +0100 "YVES FRANCES" Re: FW: Radical Universalism "So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern Hindu teachings." Dr Morales Where Srila Prabhupada said only once that all religions lead to the same goal? The one who is actually making a hodge podge of religions in India is this mere Doctor Morales. Sanatan dharma is not "hinduism", a label emanating from dark sources and buy back by academies. In Bhagavad Gita Sri Krsna said: sarva dharman parityajya ... Krsna said to give up all kind of religion, leading to so many different conception of truth :Brahmeti , paramatmeti , bhagavan it sabdyate. This is what "our swamiji" is teaching to the people with no distinction of races, creeds or social statut, Doctor. So, very few quotes to declare that your paper has no value particularly when it attacks the most valuable preacher of the "two ultimate centuries" . Your knowledge is an exemple of mayaya parita jnana. There is nothing more to speak about this paper because this "in-depth philosophical approach" is completely false or aproximativ. What a strange statement after so many readings and studies of yours!! Better to read Bhagavad Gita to clear all misconception about religions. But envious people cannot receive teaching from the pure acharya and this is why you get confused. And what is the purpose of World-vedic to allow any mundane so-called scholars in safron disguise offending publically Srila Prabhupada? Whose side are you on? Please , answer or erase me. Vrajananda das - Krishna Maheshwari To: ''Krishna Maheshwari' Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:46 AM Subject: [world-vedic] FW: Radical Universalism Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales [ fmorales (AT) dharmacentral (DOT) com] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:35 AM Recipient list suppressed Subject: Radical Universalism Greetings & Namaste, I've just completed a major paper on the question of whether or not Hinduism actually teaches that all religions are the same, an idea that I call Radical Universalism. This issue has become the most paralyzing and crucial philosophical issue that Hinduism has faced in the last 200 years. The on-line version of the paper is located here: http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm The paper takes an in-depth philosophical approach to the issue, delving into the historical origins of the idea, as well as the immediate impact that it has had on Hinduism for the last two centuries. While the paper is certainly meant to be read by each and every concerned Hindu, it has been especially created with Hindu leaders, Hindu intellectuals and Hindu activists as its main audience. The hope is that this paper will quickly become the definitive statement on this important issue. If you find the paper helpful and informative, I would ask that you please assist me in distributing it to as large and wide an audience as possible. Please forward this information to any friends, lists or discussion groups that would find it interesting. If you have a web site, please consider placing the paper on your site, or providing a link. In addition to the web format version, please feel free to contact me if you would like a Word version of the paper. Thank you, and take care. Jaya Sanatana Dharma, Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales, Ph.D. www.dharmacentral.com http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm This is not spam. If you have been mistakenly placed on this list, we apologize for the mistake. Please reply with "remove" as the subject heading and you will be removed immediately from this list. Thank you. This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Sponsor Links vediculture/ b.. vediculture c.. [This message contained attachments]This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Namaste, Once again, Yves, I'll try to make this as clear as possible for you: no where in my paper do I criticize His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada in any way, shape or form. No where in my paper do I ever accuse His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada of being a Radical Universalist. The one and only time in the entire paper where I do mention Srila Prabhupada is in one section where I have nothing but the highest praise for him as a bona fide guru, someone who is opposed to Radical Universalism, and a true acharya whose work we should all support. You continuously complain about my one use of the term "swamiji" in my paper, in which I am very clearly not referring to Srila Prabhupada, but to a class of cheating gurus and "bogey yogis" who come to the States and teach watered down Vedic philosophy. In criticizing these "swamijis", I am criticizing the same false gurus who Srila Prabhupada himself so often warned us against. I don't know how to make this any clearer to you, Yves: I AM NOT REFERRING TO "OUR SWAMIJI" (as you call him), SRILA PRABHUPADA. You even reproduce below the section of my paper where this is extremely clear to anyone capable of reading. I am referring to a specific class of false "swamijis" who water down Vedic teachings, individuals who Srila Prabhupada himself warned us about often. I don't understand if possibly there is some language barrier on your part or possibly some other personal problem that is making you misunderstand my paper, but to my knowledge no one else on this list is seeing what you are seeing when you "read" my paper - because it simply isn't there. Can people on the list please speak up and kindly confirm this for Yves!? I don't know what your personal relationship is to Srila Prabhupada, but I have thus far had nothing but the most positive and kindest feedback about my paper from many dozens of respected direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada - both inside and outside of ISKCON. So far, your bizarre complaint is the only one I've gotten. Please, Yves, stop wasting your time, and the time of everyone on this discussion list fighting illusory ghosts and enemies existing only in the recesses of your own mind. Please read Srila Prabhupada's books, chant Hare Krsna, and focus your energy instead on teaching others Krsna Consciousness and Sanatana Dharma. There's a world to save out there! I will not be responding to your rants any more on this list. I would ask instead that the other respected members please feel free to speak up, and confirm for Yves that I never said Srila Prabhupada was a Radical Universalist anywhere in my paper. But please read the paper first!: http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm Thank you all for your kind patience with this truly bizarre and unnecessary non-controversy. Let's please move on to more important discussions. Jaya Sri Krsna, Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales At 03:57 AM 1/1/05, you wrote: >vediculture, "YVES FRANCES" ><yves.frances@c...> wrote: >Doctor Morales has written: > >"Of the many current peculiar concepts mistakenly ascribed to Hindu >theology, one of the most widely misunderstood is the idea that >Hinduism somehow teaches that all religions are equal.that all >religions are the same, with the same purpose, goal, experientially >tangible salvific state, and object of ultimate devotion. So often >has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the >common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores >yearning for a popular following - that it has now become >artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern >Hindu teachings. Many Hindus are now completely convinced that this >is actually what Hinduism teaches. > >...Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly >repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included: >Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya >Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva >Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many >others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine >Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic >Hinduism." > >Dr Morales > > >Dear Frank, > >Your attempt to make me a fool in public is nothing in comparison of >your statement about our "swamiji". So I take voluntarely the risk >of by defending the purpose of the mission of our spiritual master. >Maybe I have not a clear understanding of those words when you said >clearly AC Bhaktivedanta (the latest "swamiji") is one of those who >have "thoughtlessly" (carelessly , insensately or inconsiderately - >Webster dict.-) spread the notion (which one? all religions are the >same, etc.) by yearning for popular following. >Srila Prabhupada is the personality the most attentive to make >distinction between by exemple, nirvesesa, sunyavadi and teach to his >followers to make distinction. Are you? >In this aspect what upsets me so is that your statements is mixing >many impersonalist teachers with our master. After you said he is the >one with many other who has repudiated this notion. Srila Prabhupada >has not come for this purpose. He came to teach bhakti. Devotion to >Krsna. As it is explained in Bhagavad gita, there is many diferent >conception of religion . He came to teach the topmost reality not to >revival a so called "authentic hinduism". >This hinduism or castism is now working in our temple and we can see >the result. >So please make your hinduism your own aim but not the one of the >Srila Prabhupada's mission. If I have read with dificulty your paper, >you seem in return to have not understanding any of Srila >Prabhupada's book by claiming he was repudiating with many other >mayavadis the neo hinduism, to restablish a very hypothetical real >hinduism you seem yearning to be followed by your listeners. >So I can conclude either your answer contradicts your paper by >telling something and is opposite about Srila Prabhupada or/and you >have not a clear understanding of what Sanatana dharma is. University >shows its limits in spiritual topics. The fact is that by an in depth >analysis of your ideas, we can see a lot of confusion very difficult >to discriminate clearly. >You don't know Srila Prabhupada , our "Swamiji" , this is crystal >clear, so please don't use his name to illustrate your own points. >One more thing: Swami is the name of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami >Prabhupada , so Swamiji takes a S ,as you would write Narayanaji >with a N. > >Thank you >Vrajananda das > >- > Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales > vediculture > Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:24 PM > [world-vedic] Re: FW: Radical Universalism > > > Dear Yves, > > Namaste. Your message is, unfortunately, a prime example of why >it's important that a person actually bother to read an article >before trying to criticize the article. No where in my paper did I >ever make the claim that Srila Prabhupada was a Radical >Universalist. He very clearly was not. If you had bothered to >actually read the article long enough to make it to the section >called "Beacons of Hope", you would have seen that I went so far as >to actually include Srila Prabhupada in a list of legitimate and bona >fide gurus who I consider anti-Radical Universalists. Please take >the time to actually read articles in the future!! > > From my paper (page 39): > > "Beacons of Hope > > Fortunately, by no means have all present-day Hindu leaders allowed >themselves to thoughtlessly succumb to the mind-numbing influence of >Radical Universalism. Indeed, in the present generation we have been >blessed with the sagacious guidance of many truly authentic >traditionalist Hindu gurus and teachers. These gurus, many of whom >represent some of the most ancient lineages (sampradayas) of >classical Hinduism, have spoken out compellingly and courageously >against both Radical Universalism and the neo-Hinduism from which it >took birth, and have articulated the urgent need for the restoration >of genuine and traditional Hinduism. Among the many Hindu leaders in >recent decades who have openly repudiated Radical Universalism and >neo-Hinduism can be included: Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami >Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta >Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri >Rangapriya Swami, among many others. We need to help facilitate the >work of such truly genuine Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the >renewal of authentic Hinduism." > > READ, READ, READ. Otherwise, there is always the risk of making a >fool of oneself in public. > > Your Servant, > > Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales > > > At 11:52 AM 12/29/04, you wrote: > > > Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:13 +0100 > "YVES FRANCES" > Re: FW: Radical Universalism > > "So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so >many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on >American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now >become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of >modern Hindu teachings." > > Dr Morales > > Where Srila Prabhupada said only once that all religions lead >to the same goal? The one who is actually making a hodge podge of >religions in India is this mere Doctor Morales. Sanatan dharma is >not "hinduism", a label emanating from dark sources and buy back by >academies. > In Bhagavad Gita Sri Krsna said: sarva dharman parityajya ... >Krsna said to give up all kind of religion, leading to so many >different conception of truth :Brahmeti , paramatmeti , bhagavan it >sabdyate. This is what "our swamiji" is teaching to the people with >no distinction of races, creeds or social statut, Doctor. > So, very few quotes to declare that your paper has no value >particularly when it attacks the most valuable preacher of the "two >ultimate centuries" . Your knowledge is an exemple of mayaya parita >jnana. There is nothing more to speak about this paper because >this "in-depth philosophical approach" is completely false or >aproximativ. What a strange statement after so many readings and >studies of yours!! Better to read Bhagavad Gita to clear all >misconception about religions. But envious people cannot receive >teaching from the pure acharya and this is why you get confused. > And what is the purpose of World-vedic to allow any mundane so- >called scholars in safron disguise offending publically Srila >Prabhupada? Whose side are you on? Please , answer or erase me. > > Vrajananda das > - > Krishna Maheshwari > ''Krishna Maheshwari' > Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:46 AM > [world-vedic] FW: Radical Universalism > > > > ------------------------------- >-------------- > > Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales [ fmorales@d...] > Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:35 AM > Recipient list suppressed > Radical Universalism > > > > Greetings & Namaste, > > I've just completed a major paper on the question of whether or >not Hinduism actually teaches that all religions are the same, an >idea that I call Radical Universalism. This issue has become the most >paralyzing and crucial philosophical issue that Hinduism has faced in >the last 200 years. > > The on-line version of the paper is located here: > > > http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm > > > > > The paper takes an in-depth philosophical approach to the >issue, delving into the historical origins of the idea, as well as >the immediate impact that it has had on Hinduism for the last two >centuries. While the paper is certainly meant to be read by each and >every concerned Hindu, it has been especially created with Hindu >leaders, Hindu intellectuals and Hindu activists as its main >audience. The hope is that this paper will quickly become the >definitive statement on this important issue. > > If you find the paper helpful and informative, I would ask that >you please assist me in distributing it to as large and wide an >audience as possible. > > Please forward this information to any friends, lists or >discussion groups that would find it interesting. If you have a web >site, please consider placing the paper on your site, or providing a >link. In addition to the web format version, please feel free to >contact me if you would like a Word version of the paper. Thank you, >and take care. > > Jaya Sanatana Dharma, > > Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales, Ph.D. > www.dharmacentral.com http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm > > > > > > This is not spam. If you have been mistakenly placed on this >list, we apologize for the mistake. Please reply with "remove" as the >subject heading and you will be removed immediately from this list. >Thank you. > > > > This is an information resource and discussion group for people >interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its >historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about >India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. > Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is >the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the >environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > ------------------------------- >-------------- > Links > > > vediculture/ > > b.. > vediculture > > c.. Terms of >Service. > > > > [This message contained attachments] > > > > > This is an information resource and discussion group for people >interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its >historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about >India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. > Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the >natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the >environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > >---- >-------- > Links > > > vediculture/ > > b.. > vediculture > > c.. Terms of >Service. >--- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Dear Vrajananda das Prabhu Thank-you very much! I agree with you -- His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is **the** BONA FIDE guru and he is NOT to be equated/lumped together with mundane swamis rubber stamped as "gurus". Srila Prabhupada's position is unique. Nobody QUOTES the words of other so called gurus as they are NOT accepted as sastra. Srila Prabhupada's words are sastra because Lord Krishna MANIFESTS in them. All those thismayananda thatmayananda this swami that swami are all bogus without any factual ananda(Spiritual bliss). ys mahesh - YVES FRANCES vediculture Thursday, December 30, 2004 9:39 AM Re: [world-vedic] Re: FW: Radical Universalism Doctor Morales has written: "Of the many current peculiar concepts mistakenly ascribed to Hindu theology, one of the most widely misunderstood is the idea that Hinduism somehow teaches that all religions are equal…that all religions are the same, with the same purpose, goal, experientially tangible salvific state, and object of ultimate devotion. So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern Hindu teachings. Many Hindus are now completely convinced that this is actually what Hinduism teaches. ....Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included: Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic Hinduism." Dr Morales Dear Frank, Your attempt to make me a fool in public is nothing in comparison of your statement about our "swamiji". So I take voluntarely the risk of by defending the purpose of the mission of our spiritual master. Maybe I have not a clear understanding of those words when you said clearly AC Bhaktivedanta (the latest "swamiji") is one of those who have "thoughtlessly" (carelessly , insensately or inconsiderately -Webster dict.-) spread the notion (which one? all religions are the same, etc.) by yearning for popular following. Srila Prabhupada is the personality the most attentive to make distinction between by exemple, nirvesesa, sunyavadi and teach to his followers to make distinction. Are you? In this aspect what upsets me so is that your statements is mixing many impersonalist teachers with our master. After you said he is the one with many other who has repudiated this notion. Srila Prabhupada has not come for this purpose. He came to teach bhakti. Devotion to Krsna. As it is explained in Bhagavad gita, there is many diferent conception of religion . He came to teach the topmost reality not to revival a so called "authentic hinduism". This hinduism or castism is now working in our temple and we can see the result. So please make your hinduism your own aim but not the one of the Srila Prabhupada's mission. If I have read with dificulty your paper, you seem in return to have not understanding any of Srila Prabhupada's book by claiming he was repudiating with many other mayavadis the neo hinduism, to restablish a very hypothetical real hinduism you seem yearning to be followed by your listeners. So I can conclude either your answer contradicts your paper by telling something and is opposite about Srila Prabhupada or/and you have not a clear understanding of what Sanatana dharma is. University shows its limits in spiritual topics. The fact is that by an in depth analysis of your ideas, we can see a lot of confusion very difficult to discriminate clearly. You don't know Srila Prabhupada , our "Swamiji" , this is crystal clear, so please don't use his name to illustrate your own points. One more thing: Swami is the name of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada , so Swamiji takes a S ,as you would write Narayanaji with a N. Thank you Vrajananda das - Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales vediculture Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:24 PM [world-vedic] Re: FW: Radical Universalism Dear Yves,Namaste. Your message is, unfortunately, a prime example of why it's important that a person actually bother to read an article before trying to criticize the article. No where in my paper did I ever make the claim that Srila Prabhupada was a Radical Universalist. He very clearly was not. If you had bothered to actually read the article long enough to make it to the section called "Beacons of Hope", you would have seen that I went so far as to actually include Srila Prabhupada in a list of legitimate and bona fide gurus who I consider anti-Radical Universalists. Please take the time to actually read articles in the future!!From my paper (page 39):"Beacons of HopeFortunately, by no means have all present-day Hindu leaders allowed themselves to thoughtlessly succumb to the mind-numbing influence of Radical Universalism. Indeed, in the present generation we have been blessed with the sagacious guidance of many truly authentic traditionalist Hindu gurus and teachers. These gurus, many of whom represent some of the most ancient lineages (sampradayas) of classical Hinduism, have spoken out compellingly and courageously against both Radical Universalism and the neo-Hinduism from which it took birth, and have articulated the urgent need for the restoration of genuine and traditional Hinduism. Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included: Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic Hinduism."READ, READ, READ. Otherwise, there is always the risk of making a fool of oneself in public. Your Servant,Dr. Frank Gaetano MoralesAt 11:52 AM 12/29/04, you wrote: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:13 +0100 "YVES FRANCES" Re: FW: Radical Universalism "So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern Hindu teachings." Dr Morales Where Srila Prabhupada said only once that all religions lead to the same goal? The one who is actually making a hodge podge of religions in India is this mere Doctor Morales. Sanatan dharma is not "hinduism", a label emanating from dark sources and buy back by academies. In Bhagavad Gita Sri Krsna said: sarva dharman parityajya ... Krsna said to give up all kind of religion, leading to so many different conception of truth :Brahmeti , paramatmeti , bhagavan it sabdyate. This is what "our swamiji" is teaching to the people with no distinction of races, creeds or social statut, Doctor. So, very few quotes to declare that your paper has no value particularly when it attacks the most valuable preacher of the "two ultimate centuries" . Your knowledge is an exemple of mayaya parita jnana. There is nothing more to speak about this paper because this "in-depth philosophical approach" is completely false or aproximativ. What a strange statement after so many readings and studies of yours!! Better to read Bhagavad Gita to clear all misconception about religions. But envious people cannot receive teaching from the pure acharya and this is why you get confused. And what is the purpose of World-vedic to allow any mundane so-called scholars in safron disguise offending publically Srila Prabhupada? Whose side are you on? Please , answer or erase me. Vrajananda das - Krishna Maheshwari To: ''Krishna Maheshwari' Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:46 AM Subject: [world-vedic] FW: Radical Universalism Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales [ fmorales (AT) dharmacentral (DOT) com] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:35 AM Recipient list suppressed Subject: Radical Universalism Greetings & Namaste, I've just completed a major paper on the question of whether or not Hinduism actually teaches that all religions are the same, an idea that I call Radical Universalism. This issue has become the most paralyzing and crucial philosophical issue that Hinduism has faced in the last 200 years. The on-line version of the paper is located here: http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm The paper takes an in-depth philosophical approach to the issue, delving into the historical origins of the idea, as well as the immediate impact that it has had on Hinduism for the last two centuries. While the paper is certainly meant to be read by each and every concerned Hindu, it has been especially created with Hindu leaders, Hindu intellectuals and Hindu activists as its main audience. The hope is that this paper will quickly become the definitive statement on this important issue. If you find the paper helpful and informative, I would ask that you please assist me in distributing it to as large and wide an audience as possible. Please forward this information to any friends, lists or discussion groups that would find it interesting. If you have a web site, please consider placing the paper on your site, or providing a link. In addition to the web format version, please feel free to contact me if you would like a Word version of the paper. Thank you, and take care. Jaya Sanatana Dharma, Dr. Frank Gaetano Morales, Ph.D. www.dharmacentral.com http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm This is not spam. If you have been mistakenly placed on this list, we apologize for the mistake. Please reply with "remove" as the subject heading and you will be removed immediately from this list. Thank you. This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome. Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Sponsor Links vediculture/ b.. vediculture c.. [This message contained attachments]This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih OmThis is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.Remember, Vedic Culture is not an artificial imposition, but is the natural state of a society that is in harmony with God and the environment.Om Shantih, Harih Om Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Dr Morales wrote: Among the many Hindu leaders in recent decades who have openly>repudiated Radical Universalism and neo-Hinduism can be included:>Swami Chinmayananda, Pujya Swami Dayananda Sarasvati, Shivaya>Subramuniya Swami, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Sri Vamadeva>Shastri, Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swami, Sri Rangapriya Swami, among many>others. We need to help facilitate the work of such truly genuine>Dharma leaders if we wish to witness the renewal of authentic>Hinduism." Furthermore, Dr Morales wrote: >I am referring to a specific class of false "swamijis" >who water down Vedic teachings, individuals who Srila Prabhupada himself >warned us about often.+++++++++++++++++++ But are they lumped together all "such truly genuine Dharma leaders" as refered to by Dr Morales? Apart from Srila Prabhupada, NOBODY on the list he mentions has come even close to accomplishing remotely reflecting what Srila Prabhupada has done. The proof is in the testing of the pudding. Why then, lump all those characters together with Srila Prabhupada? This audacity is unacceptable. Srila Prabhupada was non compromising; let Srila Prabhupada give the verdict: 72-02-12. Letter: Govinda Regarding that man Cinmayananda, he's a sinful man, I know him, at least sinful according to our four principles. He as been lecturing for 20 years, still his asrama stands vacant. Unless one's life is made up, what this lecturing will do? 750412rc.hyd ConversationsMahamsa: I heard that with my own ears. He said...Guest: From Bhagavad-gita?Mahamsa: Yes. He said "We will take the slokas which are suitable and which are not suitable, we'll reject those slokas."Prabhupada: Just see. He is to judge which is suitable, which is not suitable. Just see, this philosophy. Cinmayananda or any ordinary person, he has to judge which sloka is suitable, which is not suitable. That means he is more than Krsna. Krsna has spoken something unsuitable--which he can judge. This is the position. 760218mw.may ConversationsYasodanandana: But some way or other, he has some respect for you, Prabhupada, for the great work you have done, Cinmayananda Swami. He has some respect for you. He knows...Prabhupada: But he, he wants to keep his prestigious position.Acyutananda: Oh, yes. 760906rc.vrn ConversationsAksayananda: Plainly you have described in the Gita. You have described plainly in the Gita. No one else has done that. Cinmayananda's, this, that rascal, no one has. No one has explained that. They don't know.Prabhupada: No, anyone who is not in our disciplic succession, he's not a human being. Cinmayananda, Vivekananda, this-ananda, they simply... Ananda, there is no ananda. All nirananda. What Cinmayananda? He is supposed to be very big sannyasi, what he has done? 761225mw.bom Conversations Prabhupada: Cinmayananda is atheist. Atheist. He does not believe in Krsna. 770121r2.bhu ConversationsPrabhupada: Just see. Such... They have created this Vivekananda and Cinmayanandas, rascals, so many rascals. They have created such situation that Indian people are mostly in darkness, although God appears here in India. They have executed such thankless task, this Vivekananda, Cinmayananda and so many Mayavadis. "Ramakrishna is Bhagavan." And what is his certificate that he is Bhagavan? "He said." No. He said "I am the same Rama. I am the same Krsna." So he is taking shelter of Krsna to prove his Godhead. So why not go to original Godhead? Why shall I take the imitation? He is maintaining his position that "I am the same Krsna.So then same Krsna is authority. So why shall I not go to same Krsna? Why shall I go to you? Your authority is also Krsna. So why shall I give up original Krsna and take to an imitation Krsna? You may be the same, but I am not a very intelligent man. Why shall I go to the imitation? I shall go to the original." Hm? Is it not? "I am not so expert to understand whether you are actual or not. You are saying. There is no proof in the sastra. So let me go to the original." Is that all right, argument? "Why shall I take you? You are supporting, trying to maintain yourself." Everyone says that "I am Krsna. I am God." So India, we have to fight little. There are so many atheists. But mass of people, they are all right. 770417r2.bom ConversationsGiriraja: The lawyer asked me had I read the books of Swami Cinmayananda.Prabhupada: What did you reply?Giriraja: Well, I said that we knew what his philosophy was, and that we were not impressed by it.Tamala Krsna: He defines Krsna as the dark unknowing within. That's his definition of Krsna, Swami Cinmayananda.Prabhupada: How you explain the unknown if you do not know? How do you speak "unknown"? You know or not?Tamala Krsna: He doesn't define Krsna. I mean he doesn't speak about Krsna.Prabhupada: No, anyone. If unknown, then how do you say unknown? You know. You know Him as unknown.Tamala Krsna: Contradiction.Prabhupada: Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam. 740614rc.par ConversationsPrabhupada: Dayananda Sarasvati, he made vigorous propaganda against temple worship. Nobody cared. (laughs) Nobody...Professor La Combe: Even now, nowadays, now they are...Prabhupada: No, their influence is gone, Arya-samaja.Professor La Combe: No, I mean the Arya-samaja is no more very active now.Prabhupada: They cannot active, because whatever activity they had, they finished. The stock and energy is gone. On the balance, the advice Dr Morales give to Vrajanandana das prabhu: "Please, Yves, stop wasting your time, and the time of everyone on this discussion list fighting illusory ghosts and enemies existing only in the recesses of your own mind. Please read Srila Prabhupada's books, chant Hare Krsna, and focus your energy instead on teaching others Krsna Consciousness and Sanatana Dharma. There's a world to save out there!" It would be best also if Dr Morales himself humbly took the same advice. No offence intended. Bg 10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be achieved when one is not hesitant and when he understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but surely he becomes free from bewilderment. Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution. Ksama, forgiveness, should be practiced, and one should excuse the minor offenses of others. Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth. In the service of our bonafide Jagad Guru His Divine Grace Srimad 108 Srimad A C Bhaktivendanta Swami Prabhupada. ys mahesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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