Guest guest Posted May 6, 2002 Report Share Posted May 6, 2002 NIRHEDUKA AND SAHEDUKA KRUPAI Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya namaha Pranams, There was discussion earlier about the krupai of Emperuman whether it is Nirhedukam(Irrespective of our actions) or Sahedukam(with respect to our actions). Adiyen will now try to post my understanding of the same. When we see the kalyana gunas of the Bhagavan it is no doubt that he has Nirheduka krupai on the jeevatmas. But if he starts showing his krupai on one and all without any reason just because of his apaara kaarunyam then all of us will go to moksham and the leela vibhuti of the bhagavan will become zero. But Bhagavan is considered to be ubhaya vibhuti nadan and he wants to maintain both his vibhutis so Emperuman has put a limitation to his krupai. Any father will like to show his love for all his sons and daughters equally. We are all children of the same Parabrahmam. Then why should the lord be partial. Only to explain his impartially Emperuman expects some good deeds from us. So he says when you are my bhaktha and you fall to my feet and do saranagati I am destined to save you. For instance, a father has 2 sons. One of the sons is an engineer in a very good job and he no more needs the assistance of the father. He thinks he can live his own life. But the other son is poorly qualified and is suffering without a job and he has surrendered to the feet of the father for help. So the father will be naturally sympathetic to the second son and will try to help him out in whatever way he can. Can we say that the father is impartial then? Absolutely not. Similarly Emperuman is more worried of his bhakthas who doesn’t depend on their capabilities but surrender into his feet . As Sri Aalavandar in his strotra ratnam says “Na dharmanishtosmi nacha atmavedhi na bhakthiman dvath charnaravidye akinchanaha ananyagathi charnya dvath pada moolam charanam prabhathye”. Here Sri Aalvandar shows us how to do saranagathi in the feet of Emperuman. He says I am not a person who does his dharma well(karma yogam) nor am I an atmavedhi who is capable of meditating on his atma (jyana yogam) nor am I a bhathi yogi I have no other source or gathi and iam incapable of any other good deeds so I prostrate in your feet and surrender to you. That is what Emperuman expects from each one of us. We need not do anyother thing the emperuman qualifies us for moksha and gives us moksha too. As in Varaha Puranam, Emperuman says “Aham smarami Matbhaktham Nayami Paramam gathim” . I will think of my Bhakthas when they are in the last bed and give them the parama gathi moksha from where he never returns( nacha punaravarthathe). According to the sastras the person should have anthima smriti to attain moksha but here emperuman assures that for his bhakthas he himself will give the jyana atleast at the time of death and grant them the moksha. As alwar says “Maranamanal Vaikundam tharum perumal” he is the emperuman who grants moksha (Vaikundam) after our death. So only thing we have to do is to show him the desire to accept him as our gathi and be in a position to accept his help. Emperumanar Sri Ramanujar said that bhagavan was common to all . As Sri Manavala Mamunigal says “Asaiyudaiyor keelam ariyargal koorum endru pesi varambaruththar pin” . Before Sri Ramanujar all other acharyas followed the system of ‘Oran vazhi’ and they thought the rahasyams only to highly qualified shisyas. But Sri Ramanujar, an incarnation of Sri Parthasarathi, who gave the Bhagavat geetha(extract of the vedic meanings) to one and all irrespective of caste, creed or gender, changed the previous way and declared that the teachings should be given to all those who where interested in falling to the feet of Emperuman for their rescue. So only thing both the emperuman and our great acharya regarded necessary for us was the will and even that the emperuman has to grant to us. Imagine if a blind person is caught in a forest and he has lost his way. He shouts for help and when a person comes to his rescue and says I will show you the way the person has to hold on to the other person and believe him. But if the blind person starts asking him questions like how can I believe you and other things then the blind person has no other option other than dying in the forest. Here the blind person is no one other than we samsaris who have be blinded by ajyana and have been left in the forest of samsara and we have lost the way to our original place Srivaikundam. The person who comes to help us to show the way is the aacharya or the bhagavan himself. So only when we accept them they can help us out. So though this happens to look like saheduka krupai that emperuman expects us to do saranagathi or show our willingness still all happens only due to the Nirheduka krupai of Emperuman. To make us understand the great arthas of our sampradhayam and bring us nearer to the bhagavan he does a lot of things. Actually the emperuman is more worried and undergoes a lot of sorrow if one jeevatma fails to come to him and suffers in the samsara. So he first gave us the Vedas and rishis to explain them. Still people didn’t reach him so he himself took many avataras to change the people. But he himself failed as he says in his Bhagavat geetha “Avajananti mam moodah: manuishim thanu mashritam”. These mandha buddhi people don’t recognize my avataras and consider me also to be a man like them. Inspite of the various insults made by the jeevatmas during his rama and Krishna avataras the bhagavan still didn’t stop his attempt to change the people. Then he sent the alwars and acharyas his own nitya sooris to bring a awareness in the minds of the jeevatmas. Alwars and Acharyas did a great job which made him extremely happy. But still there are other jeevatmas in this world to change whom emperuman has given so many scholars and present day acharyas. All these have happened only due to the Nirheduka krupai of the Bhagavan. If a person depends on his own Karma, Jnana Bhakthi yogas or if his thinks that what ever nama japam or meditation he is doing itself will lead him to moksham yes, it will lead but as Krishna in geetha says “Aneka janma samsiddhaha:” after many janmas he will attain moksha. Because we are capable of small effort only and there is all chances that we will fall like Bharata yoghisvarar who was such great yogi but by fate fall for the love of a deer. But for a person who has surrendered to bhagavan it will hardly take any time for the bhagavan to lift him to the divine abord so he gets moksha in the same janma so bhagavan says “na chirat” it wont take much time for my bhaktha to reach me. So all these prove that Emperuman has Nirheduka krupai on all of us but to maintain his impartiality and also this leela vibhuti he justs expects us to do saranagathi in his feet. Doing saranagathi is not a ritual but it is heartfelt feeling. We have to mentally accept that we are incapable of protecting ourselves and our sole protector is only Sriman Narayanan and he is the only person who can grant us the moksha. We should accept him as both the upayam(the way) and also the Upeyam(the goal) and surrender to his feet. All errors may be please kindly pardoned and corrected by the learned members of the group. Adiyen Ramanuja dasyai Sumithra Varadarajan Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health. 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Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Smt Sumitra, I have some queries regarding your posting below. ---- Quote 1 ------- When we see the kalyana gunas of the Bhagavan it is no doubt that he has Nirheduka krupai on the jeevatmas. But if he starts showing his krupai on one and all without any reason just because of his apaara kaarunyam then all of us will go to moksham and the leela vibhuti of the bhagavan will become zero. But Bhagavan is considered to be ubhaya vibhuti nadan and he wants to maintain both his vibhutis so Emperuman has put a limitation to his krupai. ---- Unquote 1------- I feel this problem of 'sarva mukhti prasangam' (mOksha to all) will be an issue, only if WE try to fix the actions of emberumAn. If you say that He should not grant mOksha to anybody just because He desires, isn't it an intrusion on His independence which is unfettered. If we say that, He is looking for a pretext on the part of the chEtana to shower His grace, isn't it a shortcoming of His guNA of 'nirankusa swAthantriyam' (unfettered independence). Now regarding the existence of the ubhaya vibhUthi, please note that the vEdAs only say that the distribution of the AtmAs in this prakruthi is balanced. While they do not talk about 'creation' of an AtmA, they also don't say that it is not at all possible to 'create' an AtmA. In fact, our dearest AzhwArs are true paratantras to Sriman nArAyaNan that, they cannot accept even a small shortcoming on the part of emberumAn even indirectly. They talk about the jeevAtma creation in many places and use the word "padaitthu" to denote even the creation of AtmAs. If we believe this, then where is the question of the non-existence of this leela vibhUthi, incase He grants mOksham to one and all. So if He grants mOksham to whoever, He decides (true nirhEtuka krupA), then He knows to balance the jeevAtmAs in this world and hence He will create them to balance it. Also we cannot say that, just because the vEdAs doesn't talk explicitly about the creation of the jeevAtmAs, this cannot be accepted. Because, if we are to accept that He cannot create the AtmAs, then His poorNatvam is under question. In my humble opinion, this vaishamya - nairkruNya dOsham on the part of emberumAn is only because we shed our swaroopam of pArathanthriyam to Him and start fixing His actions rather that follow His actions. --------- Quote 2 -------------- Any father will like to show his love for all his sons and daughters equally. We are all children of the same Parabrahmam. Then why should the lord be partial. Only to explain his impartially Emperuman expects some good deeds from us. So he says when you are my bhaktha and you fall to my feet and do saranagati I am destined to save you. --------- Unquote 2 -------------- Please note that while I don't differ in this subject, I would like to explain more further on this. It is these lines that have caused utter confusions and gave rise to various interpretations and hence the difference in kalais. Actually when He tells us to fall at His feet etc., it has to be interpreted as that He is giving the knowledge about the jeevAtma swaroopam which is pArathanthriyam. So when He has given this knowledge, because of which we may fall at His feet, a misinterpretation here leads the jeevAtmA to believe as if he/she has done some thing which has earned the mOksha and hence the sAdhyOpAyams will get you mOksham. Remember the thirumAlai pAsuram "mEmporuL pOga viTTu.." in which Sri thoNdaradippodi AzhwAr says " vAzhum sOmbarai ugatthi pOlum". This very clearly proves that while emberumAn may say that He found a pretext, one should not consider it as mandatory on His part to grant the mOksham. It is His swaroopam or His swAthanthriyam which makes Him to look for a pretext. He may or may not wait for a pretext. Explaining further, it is okay for emberumAn to grant mOksham for two types of pretexts. One is the act which the jeevAthmA performs with knowledge about the relationship of himself with that of paramAthmA. These are the acts of performing saraNAgathi etc. The second is the act that the jeevAtmA performs without the true knowledge of the nature of his soul or the relationship with that of paramAthmA. This is what the AzhwArs have said as "en ooraich chonnAi, en pEraich chonnAi.." etc., The AzhwArs and AchAryAs say that He grants mOksham for the jeevAtma, by constituing the second one also as a pretext. If we analyse both, will we agree that the acts performed by the jeevAtma, with and without knowledge can be construed as both equal. We will surely say that on the part of jeevAthmA, the second type of the jeevAthmA is only lucky and that his act is in no way equal to that of the first type of jeevAthma. So how can you justify the act on the part of emberumAn to grant mOksha to both the type of acts. This is exactly the nirhEtuka krupA. The second type of act is to bring out and make this world realize His sowlabhyam and apAra kAruNyam that He will even consider the illiterate acts of the jeevAthmA as a pretext to issue mOksha. So if we are to say that, there needs to be a pretext for Him to grant mOksha, how will we just the mOksha conferred on the second type of people referred about. So please do not interpret these pretexts as mandatory on part of jeevAthmA , more so on the part of emberumAn. It is just His pure nirhEtuka kripa which gives mOksha to the jeevAthma. He is unbound and unfettered. He can do anything He wants, He can look for a pretext or even not. How can we question His acts. If we are to question His acts then that is the utmost ego on our parts and sure you all know what is the effect of this ego on the jeevAthmA. Summarizing, the pretexts what He looks for are not a mandatory ones for Him, but it is just He wishes to look for one. So if this is understood properly, the concept of nirhEtuka krupA will be very clear and as a FREE GIFT the concept of siddhOpAyam will also be very clear. This will prove that no act on the part of the jeevAthmA earns Him the mOksha and it is only the emberumAn's nirhEtuka krupa which earns the jeevAthmA the mOksha. The most apt words were written by Smt Sumitra as follows ;- ------ Quote 3 ----------- Doing saranagathi is not a ritual but it is heartfelt feeling. We have to mentally accept that we are incapable of protecting ourselves and our sole protector is only Sriman Narayanan and he is the only person who can grant us the moksha. We should accept him as both the upayam(the way) and also the Upeyam(the goal) and surrender to his feet. ------ Unquote 3 ----------- This is the right spirit our AzhwArs and AchAryAs have been trying to inculcate in us. We have to live true to this spirit. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressed individual or entity indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person). It must not be read, copied, disclosed, distributed or used by any person other than the addressee. Unauthorised use, disclosure or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Opinions, conclusions and other information on this message that do not relate to the official business of any of the constituent companies of the SANMAR GROUP shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the Group. If you have received this message in error, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by e-mail. Thank you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Sri Venkatesh, > I feel this problem of 'sarva mukhti prasangam' > (mOksha to all) will be an > issue, only if WE try to fix the actions of > emberumAn. If you say that He > should not grant mOksha to anybody just because He > desires, isn't it an > intrusion on His independence which is unfettered. > If we say that, He is > looking for a pretext on the part of the chEtana to > shower His grace, isn't > it a shortcoming of His guNA of 'nirankusa > swAthantriyam' (unfettered > independence). Here you have to note one thing i didn't mean to say that we fix things. Everything is said and done only by the bhagavan. In Rama charama sloka Sri chakravarthi Thirumagan says "Sakrudeva prapannaya davasmethecha yachathe abhayam sarva bhoodhepyo dadam yetat vratham mama" Here he clearly says, please say that rama I belong to you and my vratham is to save all beings. There is no short coming in bhagavans kalyana gunas. When a nastika asks if your bhagavan is loka pita then why does people suffer or why doesnt he grant moksha to all then comes the answer of doing saranagathi. He has given us the answer for his impartiallity. It is not that he cannot shower his blessings on all and grant moksha but his maya is not explainable and hence he has chosen this method which is clear from his own words. So there is no way his kalyana gunas are affected due to this. > > Now regarding the existence of the ubhaya vibhUthi, > please note that the > vEdAs only say that the distribution of the AtmAs in > this prakruthi is > balanced. While they do not talk about 'creation' of > an AtmA, they also > don't say that it is not at all possible to 'create' > an AtmA. In fact, our > dearest AzhwArs are true paratantras to Sriman > nArAyaNan that, they cannot > accept even a small shortcoming on the part of > emberumAn even indirectly. > They talk about the jeevAtma creation in many places > and use the word > "padaitthu" to denote even the creation of AtmAs. If > we believe this, then > where is the question of the non-existence of this > leela vibhUthi, incase > He grants mOksham to one and all. So if He grants > mOksham to whoever, He > decides (true nirhEtuka krupA), then He knows to > balance the jeevAtmAs in > this world and hence He will create them to balance > it. Also we cannot say > that, just because the vEdAs doesn't talk explicitly > about the creation of > the jeevAtmAs, this cannot be accepted. Because, if > we are to accept that > He cannot create the AtmAs, then His poorNatvam is > under question. I also accept that bhagavan is capable of creating jeevatmas but is it necessary that he should grant moksha to all then create jeevatmas why can't he play like this see till the jeevatmas do something and then grant them moksham. Here I will like tell that all jeevatmas actions are based on only the wishes of the bhagavan. Here adiyen will quote the first meeting of sugreva and Sri Rama. Both were in the same place for quite sometime. Sugreeva didn't even notice Sri rama but when Perumal told lakshmana "Lakshmana, kabandan said that there was a king called sugreeva here who could help us. Why don't you go and see where he is?" Then sugreeva immediately saw Perumal and sent Hanuman to him. This shows that sangalpa of perumal is necessary for us to even see him. So whatever sarangathi which we do is again the sankalpa of bhagavan only. As in the Bharata yudam emperuman shows to arjuna that all the kings in the opposite side including bheeshma, karna etc dying in the vishvaroopa darshanam itself. Arjuna just killed the dead bodies but we say arjuna as the warrior who fought the war but actually krishna was behind everything. Similarly emperuman plays a game in this world. It is like when a kid is learning to write the mother holds the hand and writes for the kid and then says the kid has written well and gives marks, though the actual writing was done by the mother only. Similarly emperuman does everything but gives credit to us. So how can you > justify the act on the > part of emberumAn to grant mOksha to both the type > of acts. This is exactly > the nirhEtuka krupA. The second type of act is to > bring out and make this > world realize His sowlabhyam and apAra kAruNyam that > He will even consider > the illiterate acts of the jeevAthmA as a pretext to > issue mOksha. So if we > are to say that, there needs to be a pretext for Him > to grant mOksha, how > will we just the mOksha conferred on the second type > of people referred > about. Take for instance you are not feeling well you very well know that a particular medicine will cure your disease. So you take the medicine willingly. But if a kid has the same problem it doesnt know that the particular medicine the mother is giving will cure it's problem. The kid doesn't like the medicine so it cries and doesn't the take the medicine willingly. Do you mean to say the medicine will give effect only to you and not the kid. Emperuman is the medicine for our samsara noi as our alwars and acharyas say. So it is only necessary for us to take the medicine it can be with will or without will knowing the effect or without knowing the effect. As bhagavatham also says that Bhagavan nama gives you the effect even if you say it as helanam(talking ill), the nama still gives its effect. But there is absolutely no doubt in the Nirheduka Krupai of Bhagavan but when we surrender to him it does make him happy. Taking care of a child is always a duty of the parents but when the child respects them and does what they say they are more enthusiastic to take care of their kid. But if the child is unruly then the parents sometimes tend to punish too does that mean that the parents dont love their child? So Bhagavan will shower his krupai on us irrespective of our actions but when we do saranagathi and act according to his words he becomes more attracted towards us. Whatever we do is due to his krupai. If this is strongly understood there never comes a doubt about siddhopayam or sadyopayam. Even the Nama japam we do should be done to see the happiness of the bhagavan and not for anything else in mind. As Kulasekara alwar says "padiyai kidanthu vun pavalavai kanbene" so all the kainkaryams we do are for his happiness and even the sarangathi is for his happiness that we have kept his words. A fisherman got hold of a coral after a lot of difficulty. He didnt know the value of it but he wanted to sell it for the days food. He went to a coral merchant to sell it for a low price. The coral merchant knew the value of it so he took to the king and sold it for a huge price. The king will not sell it but knowing its beauty he will adorn his queen or himself with it. This is how different people value the same thing. A samsari things Bhagavan is capable of solving his samsara problems and give him riches so his devotion is for that(artharthi and aartha bhakthas), whereas the mumukshu wants kaivalya or moksha for his devotion like the coral merchant(jignyasu) but a jnani or prapanna does everything for the happiness of the bhagavan and things his bhakthi as svayamprayojanam (Vasudeva sarvamithi sa mahathma). But the coral remains the same in all cases so is bhagavan and regards all these bhakthas equal but has special attraction towards a jnani so he says "Priyohi Jyaninorthyartham aham sacha mama priyaha:" AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai sumithra varadarajan Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Smt Sumitra, I find that you have misunderstood my postings in some places. I will try to clarify your questions. However, I also confess, I too misunderstood your postings earlier. But your clarifications are really well crafted and one should really agree with certain views of yours here. -----Quote 1 ----------- It is not that he cannot shower his > blessings on all and grant moksha but his maya is not > explainable and hence he has chosen this method which > is clear from his own words. So there is no way his > kalyana gunas are affected due to this. -----Unquote 1---------- This is precisely what I was trying to convey. If I rephrase what I had written, the pretext is chosen by Him only. What I was saying is that, since He is looking for a pretext and if He considered an act of us as a pretext, it should not be considered as if that act has earned the mOksham to us. In other words whether to look for pretext itself or not is purely His wish. We cannot say that He WILL look for a pretext and only then grant mOksham. Only when we try to say this, his "nirankusa swAthanthriyam" gets affected. ----Quote 2------ why can't he play > like this see till the jeevatmas do something and then > grant them moksham. -----Unquote 2---- Dear members, these words are to be embossed. Read through the sentences carefully. This is the actual state of affairs with respect to emberumAn's conduct. Yes, if He makes us to do something and then considers it as a pretext to grant mOksham, it is only He who is actually doing everything. No act on the part of jeevAtma is earning Him the mOksha. Very true words. To answer Smt Sumitra's earlier lines in this para, I agree completely with your words that He need not give mOksha to all, empty the prakruthi and then create the jeevAthmAs. He can also do the way you have indicated above. I am only striving hard for every body to know this and you have explained in just very very simple sentences. Hats off for this. ----Quote 3 ----- It is like when a kid is learning to write the > mother holds the hand and writes for the kid and then > says the kid has written well and gives marks, though > the actual writing was done by the mother only. > Similarly emperuman does everything but gives credit > to us. ---- Unquote 3 ----- Yes, this is clearly what all our AchAryAs have said. So He only gives credit to us for what ever HE has done through us and this is again nothing else but His apAra kAruNyam and vAtsalyam and dayA. It is completely unfair on our parts to say that we have done something but we attribute it to Him in order to get rid of our ego. ----Quote 4----- So Bhagavan will shower his krupai on us > irrespective of our actions but when we do saranagathi > and act according to his words he becomes more > attracted towards us. ----Unquote 4----- I thought I conveyed the same meaning. I did not say that He will not grant mOksha to the second type of jeevAtmA who does some act out of ignorance. I said that if we are to say that He grants mOksha only based on a pretext, then the act due to ignorance will only take a back seat, while the act due to knowledge only can be construed as a proper pretext and if this is done, then, there will be a guNa hAni on the part of emberumAn which means He has lost His swAthanthryam. I too have the same opinion as you in that He grants mOksham to everyone or anyone and it is purely as per His wish. However, having noted that there is no difference of view I think we can agree to agree on this aspect. I am sure I have no problem with your other interpretations. Hope I too have clarified my stance on this. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2002 Report Share Posted May 7, 2002 Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Sri Venkatesh, I surely accept that we both have the same views. My reply was not due to my misunderstanding of your posting but I did want to simplify some matters and make it clear. Any errors in my postings is due to my lack of knowledge and any essence in it is due to the krupai of Sri parthasarathi and our Acharyas. Adiyen Ramanuja dasyai Sumithra Varadarajan or_venkatesh <vinjamoorvenkat wrote: > srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha > srImadh varavara munayE namaha > > Dear Smt Sumitra, > > I find that you have misunderstood my postings in > some places. I will > try to clarify your questions. However, I also > confess, I too > misunderstood your postings earlier. But your > clarifications are > really well crafted and one should really agree with > certain views of > yours here. > > -----Quote 1 ----------- > It is not that he cannot shower his > > blessings on all and grant moksha but his maya is > not > > explainable and hence he has chosen this method > which > > is clear from his own words. So there is no way > his > > kalyana gunas are affected due to this. > -----Unquote 1---------- > > This is precisely what I was trying to convey. If I > rephrase what I > had written, the pretext is chosen by Him only. What > I was saying is > that, since He is looking for a pretext and if He > considered an act > of us as a pretext, it should not be considered as > if that act has > earned the mOksham to us. In other words whether to > look for pretext > itself or not is purely His wish. We cannot say that > He WILL look for > a pretext and only then grant mOksham. Only when we > try to say this, > his "nirankusa swAthanthriyam" gets affected. > > ----Quote 2------ > why can't he play > > like this see till the jeevatmas do something and > then > > grant them moksham. > -----Unquote 2---- > > Dear members, these words are to be embossed. Read > through the > sentences carefully. This is the actual state of > affairs with respect > to emberumAn's conduct. Yes, if He makes us to do > something and then > considers it as a pretext to grant mOksham, it is > only He who is > actually doing everything. No act on the part of > jeevAtma is earning > Him the mOksha. Very true words. > > To answer Smt Sumitra's earlier lines in this para, > I agree > completely with your words that He need not give > mOksha to all, empty > the prakruthi and then create the jeevAthmAs. He can > also do the way > you have indicated above. I am only striving hard > for every body to > know this and you have explained in just very very > simple sentences. > Hats off for this. > > ----Quote 3 ----- > It is like when a kid is learning to write the > > mother holds the hand and writes for the kid and > then > > says the kid has written well and gives marks, > though > > the actual writing was done by the mother only. > > Similarly emperuman does everything but gives > credit > > to us. > ---- Unquote 3 ----- > Yes, this is clearly what all our AchAryAs have > said. So He only > gives credit to us for what ever HE has done through > us and this is > again nothing else but His apAra kAruNyam and > vAtsalyam and dayA. It > is completely unfair on our parts to say that we > have done something > but we attribute it to Him in order to get rid of > our ego. > > ----Quote 4----- > So Bhagavan will shower his krupai on us > > irrespective of our actions but when we do > saranagathi > > and act according to his words he becomes more > > attracted towards us. > ----Unquote 4----- > > I thought I conveyed the same meaning. I did not say > that He will not > grant mOksha to the second type of jeevAtmA who does > some act out of > ignorance. I said that if we are to say that He > grants mOksha only > based on a pretext, then the act due to ignorance > will only take a > back seat, while the act due to knowledge only can > be construed as a > proper pretext and if this is done, then, there will > be a guNa hAni > on the part of emberumAn which means He has lost His > swAthanthryam. I > too have the same opinion as you in that He grants > mOksham to > everyone or anyone and it is purely as per His wish. > However, having > noted that there is no difference of view I think we > can agree to > agree on this aspect. > > I am sure I have no problem with your other > interpretations. Hope I > too have clarified my stance on this. > > AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan > Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh > > Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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