5th Veda? where did this term come from

[Guest guest]

Humble pranams to all: adiyEN is forwarding

this note by HH Narayana Ramanuja Jeeyar (ChinnaJeeyar).

Swami on the list.

 

===================================================

Priya Sriman! Jai Srimannarayana!

 

We have posted some information about it yesterday.

The information posted in this letter below, was

written with a little ignorance it seems. it has to be

corrected with the following:

 

Even during Pre-Nadhamuni's time, Divya Prabandham was

kept in practice in Srirangam Temple. Even before Sri

Nadhamuni, the divya prabandham was already existing

in most of the Srivaishnava temples as a part of the

ritual. No one objected that, according to the history

available.

 

Sri Nadhamuni found the "a:ra:vamude:...." songs in

Kumbako:nam temple, while the priests were chanting

them as a part of their A:ra:dhana only.

So it is in correct to say that, Alwars'

songs were prohibited in the temples, for, they were

sung by SUDRAS or it was in DRAVIDA LANGUAGE etc.,

this is not at all correct and against the history.

 

Deva Bha:sha Sankrit was respected with high glory

and that is true. Other languages like Tamil were also

equally respected, when they speak about the Lord

Narayana. That understanding was existing even before

Sri Ra:ma:nuja. That is the reason Sri Ramanuja also

studied Divya Prabandham and it's commentaries from

Nambies. The commentaries were not documented during

those days. And so, Sri Ramanujacharya ordered his

disciples to present commentaries like

"A:ra:yirappadi"(6000 prabandham) to Thiruvai Mozhi.

 

Any distortion misleads the seekers of the truth. If

someone knows the history well, they can write about

it, otherwise, better not to make such distortion.

Somebody said that "something is better than nothing"

and then it is made very clear by welwishers that

"Nothing is better than non-sence".

 

Even post-Ramanuja period also the prabandham and its

commentary tradition caught up well and somany other

acharyas added their commentaries to the existing

ones.

 

Adhyayana Utsavam was not started by De:sika Swamy. It

was started by Thirumangai Alwar only. Without any

break it was in practise there in Srirangam. In fact,

Sri desika swamy protected the Brahmasuthra

commentaries which were in manuscripts during those

days, keeping himself under the dead-bodies.

 

He also added some tamil and sanskrit

commentaries in prose & poetry form to the existing

ones. He never meddled with the temple system or its

worship system in Srirangam according to the history.

 

As you said about the "Kama Sasthra". It was the

history again, which took place during Sri Para:sara

Bhattar's time, just after Sri Ramanuja's period, it

means, long before Sri Vedantha Desika's time. Say

about 200 years before.

 

Some scholar wanted to listen to the discourses of Sri

Bhattar swamy and joined the pravachana group. Tiruvai

Mozhi was the topic. He enjoyed the 1st 10 songs.

appreciated the supremacy of the Lord, listed

carefully the 2nd dasakam. ashtonished by hearing the

vairagya upadesham made by Nammalwar. He also heard

the 3rd 10 songs, which reveal the

accessability(soulabhya) of Lord Krishna, felt like

hearing more and more of Nammalwar's songs. When the

4th 10 songs were started he felt very sorry and went

away, for, they reveal the sorrowful state of

Nammalwar, in suffering from the pangs of seperation

from the Lord. He sung a few songs as a seperated lady

sings for her Lover. That scholar thought it as,

Ka:ma, the lust. He could not understand that the

God's Love is irresistable than that of the worldly

ka:mas. He never sought the expanation from Sri

Bhattar also. Sri Bhattar felt very sorry for his

misunderstanding. This was the history.

 

Better to understand the right things and inform. If

it is only for your own enjoyment, you do whatever you

wish. But when we inform to others, we should be very

correct for ourselves. Otherwise, that becomes

irrepairable damage and thus an inexcusable sin to

pu:rva:charyas. We hope you try to understand.

 

=chinnajeeyar=

 

 

- Ram Anbil <Ramanbil@h...> wrote:

> Dear Bhagavatas:

>

> The view expressed by Sri Parthiban Ragahavachari is

> partly correct. It is

> Mahabharata that is recognized as the 5th Veda and

> there is no dispute about

> this.

>

> Nammazhwar is known as "Vedam Tamizh seitha Maaran".

> It is he brought the

> essnce of the 4 Vedas in his 4 Prabandams. When

> these were lost to the

> world, it was Sriman Nathamuni who documented

> having assimilated them from

> Swami Nammazhwar in a trance. This tradition

> continued for some time and

> again faced a period of decadence during and after

> the period of Bhagavad

> Ramanuja.

>

> All the 9 works of Ramanuja are in Sanskrit though

> they faithfully reflected

> the philosphy contained in the Prabandams which in

> turn were themselves the

> replica of the philosophy of the Vedas.Obcviously,

> this was because of the

> intolerance of the people in his times of whatever

> was not in the Deva

> Baasha of Sanskrit.

>

> Some orthodox people objected to the recital of

> Divya Prabanam in Sri Rangam

> temple on the grounds that

> - they included the works of Non-Brahmin Azhwars

> - written in Dravida Baasha and

> - Tiruvoimozhi in particular dealt with "Kama" that

> was taboo for them.

> Swami Desika argued with them and convinced them

> that

> - the holy collects were equal to Vedas since they

> contained all that were

> in the Vedas,

> - that since they were in praise of the Lord, the

> language doid not matter

> and

> - that the "Kaama" spoken of was nothing but

> absolute devotion to the Lord.

> He reinstituted the practice of "Adhyayana Utsava",

> the ceremonial honoring

> of the Azhwars at Srirangam (Not Tirumalai as made

> out by Sri Parthiban).

>

> Again, it was not Swami Desika who first recognized

> the equality of Vedas

> and Prabandas, though it was he who convincingly

> argued and established this

> as mentioned in the above incident.

> Dasoham

> Anbil Ramaswamy

[Guest guest]

Dear Esteemed Members,

 

I do not want to get too much into matters of history,

but I certainly do find it conceivable that the following

took place. After the ransacking of Periya Perumal's tirukkOyil

Malik Kafur and his hordes, the great temple was without

worship for a period of thirty to forty years. During this

time many acharyas and other bhagavatas attained parama-padam,

and we know anecdotally that many of the traditional practices

of the great temple were forgotten and had to be remembered

with great difficulty. It is also well established that

Swami Desika was one of the few people alive during the

reestablishment of the great temple who was also old and

scholarly enough to remember the practices from before

the invasion. There are two slokas by Swami Desika inscribed

on the temple prAkAra which document his presence at the

resuming of worship there.

 

At this time, there may have been a few people who,

unaware of the ancient practices of Divya Prabandha

pArAyaNa and adhyayanotsava objected to the reestablishment

of these things because of the use of loka-bhAshA and

because the authors were not brahmins. The story of Swami

Desika's defense of Alvar paasuram recital may find

its origin here. Swami Desika, no doubt a paramount

authority on both Vedantas and a remarkable debater,

would have had the skill to convince these objectors

that this practice was indeed in consonance with the

shastras.

 

Just my opinion,

With regards,

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

Mani

[Guest guest]

Sri Parthasarathi thunai

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

 

Pranams,

According to what adiyen has heard, after the kalapam

when SriRanganatha returned to SriRangam the locals

have already established another Ranganatha Vigraha

and claimed him to be the original. At that time they

searched for a person who lived before the kalapam who

could identify Ranganatha and that they found only a

dhobi who was very old and even blind due to age. He

used to wash the clothes of SriRanganatha and he said

that he could find out perumal just with the smell of

his vastram and when perumal's vastram was got to him

he smelled and said "NamPerumal Evare" and after which

Azhagiya Manavalan was called Namperumal. If Swamy

Desika was alive during that time there could have

been no one better than him to identify Namperumal.

So by this time he should have attained Paramapadam.

Only after this the rituals in the temple was

organised as before and that was a major work done by

Sri Manavala Mamunigal.

This is what adiyen has heard from scholars if there

are errors i beg the pardon of learned scholars of the

group.

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasyai

Sumithra Varadarajan.