enlighten me on some more points

[Guest guest]

SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA

APPAN THIRUVADIGALE SARANAM.

 

 

 

 

Sri. TCA Swamin, Accept my pranam.

 

Thanks a lot for your clarifications. Adiyen have revealed my qualifications

earlier. My mind accepts only sound logic. The faith in Emperuman is His Grace.

 

Adiyen request you to enlighten me on some more points.

 

1. “This is not the argument of the quantum physicist. They

do not state that there was fact, but due to a lack of

observer it did not happen. Their stand is more fundamental

than that. It is that events themselves are dependent on

the observer. This is the famous Heisenberg Uncertainity

Principle. There is no such thing as an independent

observer (quite true in socio-political situations). The

observer has an effect on everything he observers

(Conversely, nothing happens without an observer

observing)”.

 

The doubt is

Events do happen either observed or unobserved. Does it require an observer? If

observed it is reported it and becomes useful to the society. Unobserved

happenings cannot be termed as events. Is it OK?

Then, how the converse” Nothing happens without an observer observing” is true?

In other words observed happenings only are taken into account Other happenings

(might have or might not have happened) went unnoticed.

 

2. “The word telepathy conjures up a different notion.

What some physicists are claiming is that information

exchange happens via the postulation of a particle

called Tachyon that can and only travel faster than

the speed of light. Telepathy seems to deal with some

kind of supernatural phenomenon (and I am sure some

folks would argue the same way against Tachyons) -

so, we need to be careful with the word”

 

Natural or super natural “what is the position of “ Tachyons”

Could you throw some light on it?

 

3. “This again is the same issue as before. The cat is not

affected until observed. The cause is itself random.

Remember this is quantum mechanics where randomness

plays a huge role. Things may or may not happen in

Nature, which is why Einstein disgustedly said

"God does not play dice".

 

We know the fate of cat only on opening the box. Until such time it is any

body’s guess.

Can guess and mere wishes play a role in science?

Einstein ‘s observation is correct and shows his faith in the Unknown super

factor.

Things (either in physical or mental plane) happen according to some law.

Some we know. Many we do not know.

‘Things may not happen’:

Are we expecting it to happen? Under what conditions?

Things, which we may not think of also, can happen

But, for science, it requires solid proof. Will it be OK on random observations?

 

Smt. Nappinnai is doing a good job. Thanks.

 

Sir, sorry to trouble you, my doubts may be silly

 

 

 

Adiyen Ramanuja dasan, T.Parthasarathy..

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

 

Dear Sri Parthasarathy,

Humble salutations to you. WHatever you have asked was

asked by Einstein too. He clearly stated in his paper EPR paradox

that there exist some elements of reality which Quantum Theory has

neglected and hence it's incomplete. He also made a statement that it

is obvious because "after all" Quantum Theory deals with

probabilities and hence it had to leave out certain things. Moreover

QT only explains statistical averages of the system/events as a whole

but not individual ones. I'll try my best to put things in simpler

terms to answer your questions(already sent one post to clarify

before I read your post).

 

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

nappinnai

 

> The doubt is

> Events do happen either observed or unobserved. Does it require an

observer? If observed it is reported it and becomes useful to the

society. Unobserved happenings cannot be termed as events. Is it OK?

> Then, how the converse" Nothing happens without an observer

observing" is true?

> In other words observed happenings only are taken into account

Other happenings (might have or might not have happened) went

unnoticed.

>

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

 

Dear Sri Parthasarathy Swamin,

 

adiyEn's praNAms.

 

As I said before, the contention is that events do not

happen unobserved. Now, we all know that many events

happen unoobserved by us. However, the fundamental

nature of this claim is that even those events had an

observer.

 

Let me illustrate one more thing. We all believe that

observed events can happen without any input from the

observer. That is, an event can be fully independent

of the observer and this is true at the macroscopic

level. However, QT states that an event cannot occur

without interference from an observer. That is, by the

very nature of observing, the observer has influenced

the event and changed it.

 

So, we have that events are influenced by the observer.

Now, this is the tricky part. From here, we go to the

philosphical step that all events are influenced by

observers. And then to the fact, therefore, that without

an observer there is no event.

 

So, the key here is that there is no such thing as an

unobserved happening.

 

An aside:

The beauty here is that we all know that there is an

Universal Observer, who is Sriman Narayana who is

witness to every event, being the antaryami of

everything and having this universe as His sariram.

 

Tachyon is a theoretical particle that has been

suggested by some physicists. Einstein's relativity

theory precludes any physical entity from accelerating

to speeds greater than that of light. But it does not

preclude a particle from naturally traveling at greater

speeds. The postulate of tachyon uses that to claim

that this particle always travels at greater speeds.

So, you can think of it as three bins: bin one is

particles with speeds less than that of light, bin two

is particles with speed equal to that of light (that

is, light itself) and bin three contains the tachyons.

Note that there is all kinds of issues with this

particle that doesn't fit in with any known laws of

physics. So, it is a matter of scientific and

philosophical debate. The irony is that there are

some physicists willing to allow particles to break

their own postulated laws of physics but are not

willing to allow religious principles.

 

Do guesses have a role to play in science? Absolutely,

as long as it is called probability :-). Because of

the wave-particle duality, there are an infinite number

of situations that can happen (for example, the cat can

simply fall out of the box by a random event), with

varying probabilities. The highest probability event(s)

are the ones of course most likely to happen and be

observed.

 

By the way, there is a book called Tao of Physics that

you might be interested in. which deals with quantum

physics and ties it up to religious principles found

in eastern philosophies such as in the Upanishads as

well as in Buddhism, etc.

 

AdiyEn does not want to dwell too deep into this subject

as it gets deeper into matters that may not be in tune

with this group's stated direction of studying Ramanuja

Darshanam. I will leave it to the moderators to decide

on this line of dicsussion.

 

adiyEn

TCA Venkatesan

 

--- thirunarayanan parthasarathy iyengar

<shyamala45 wrote:

> Events do happen either observed or unobserved. Does it

> require an observer? If observed it is reported it and

> becomes useful to the society. Unobserved happenings

> cannot be termed as events. Is it OK?

> Then, how the converse” Nothing happens without an

> observer observing” is true?

> In other words observed happenings only are taken into

> account Other happenings (might have or might not have

> happened) went unnoticed.

>

> 2. “The word telepathy conjures up a different notion.

> What some physicists are claiming is that information

> exchange happens via the postulation of a particle

> called Tachyon that can and only travel faster than

> the speed of light. Telepathy seems to deal with some

> kind of supernatural phenomenon (and I am sure some

> folks would argue the same way against Tachyons) -

> so, we need to be careful with the word”

>

> Natural or super natural “what is the position of “

> Tachyons”

> Could you throw some light on it?

>

> 3. “This again is the same issue as before. The cat is

> not

> affected until observed. The cause is itself random.

> Remember this is quantum mechanics where randomness

> plays a huge role. Things may or may not happen in

> Nature, which is why Einstein disgustedly said

> "God does not play dice".

>

> We know the fate of cat only on opening the box. Until

> such time it is any body’s guess.

> Can guess and mere wishes play a role in science?

> Einstein ‘s observation is correct and shows his faith in

> the Unknown super factor.

> Things (either in physical or mental plane) happen

> according to some law.

> Some we know. Many we do not know.

> ‘Things may not happen’:

> Are we expecting it to happen? Under what conditions?

> Things, which we may not think of also, can happen

> But, for science, it requires solid proof. Will it be OK

> on random observations?

 

 

 

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