Q Regarding Bhagwad Gita & Azhwars.

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

 

Dear Bhaagavatas,

 

Permit adiyEn to add a few words to Velukkudi Swamin's

reply to this query.

 

Our acharyas have shown that Azhvars indeed have spoken

about Bhagavad Gita in their works. Other than the

pasuram that Velukkudi Swami wrote, about Thirumazhisaop

pirAn's pasuram on Gita, there are a couple of other

pasurams that come to adiyEn's mind.

 

Andal speaks of her father Periyazhvar as "meymaip

peruvArththai Vishnuchitthar kEttirupar" - that is

Periyazhvar would listen to the great, true word

spoken by Him. Acharyas have supplied vyakhyanam

for this as follows: Periyazhvar is considered the

amsam of Sri Garudazhvar. And Garuda became the chariot

for Sri Krishna during the Mahabharata war. Therefore,

Periyazhvar had listened to the great and true words

of Gita spoken by the Lord.

 

In Thiruvaymozhi, Swami Nammazhvar says "aRivinAl

kuRaivillA agal njAlaththavar aRiya, neRiyellAm

eduththuraiththa niRainjAnath orumUrththi". Here the

neRi that He gave out is the Bhagavad Gita. Acharyas

have said that the Vedas contain all the truth but

hide them from us - that is, they are not easily

understood. Lord Krishna gave us the essence of the

Vedas and showed us the true path (neRi) through

the Gita.

 

Sadly, I hear that there were attempts by certain

folks to use the azhvars pasurams to claim that Gita

was a latter day addition to Mahabharatam.

 

AdiyEn too, however, had a doubt as to why the azhvars

did not mention the Gita at a lot of places.

 

I think the reason for this is as follows.

 

Nanjeeyar says the following: "... kamsavathaththukkup

pinbAgak kazhiththu munbu veNNai kaLavu kaNdu

yasOthaip pirAttiyAr kaiyAlE kattuNdu avaLukkanji

ninRa avaSthaiyaiyudaiya kushNanE ... ellAmenRum ..."

when describing Srivaishnavas. That is, Srivaishnavas

are those who are attached to Sri Krishna avatar (even

more than Him at paramapadam), but even here they are

attached only to that Krishna before Kamsa vada who stole

butter and was caught by Yasoda and stood afraid of her.

 

I think the Azhvars have approached Him the same way.

While Bhagavad Gita is no doubt important, Azhvars are

still more attached to Sri Krishna in His youth, as this

is when He showed the sowseelya and sowlabhya guNas to

the greatest extent. He showed other guNas too such as

gnAna, shakti, etc, which He continued to exhibit

throughout the avatar. But sowseelyam and sowlabhyam

were not shown again by Sri Krishna to the extent it

was at Ayppadi.

 

And Azhvars were in love with those guNas more than

anything else. Recall that Nammazhvar fainted and

was unconcious for six months upon thinking of these

guNas when he sang the words "maththuRu kadai veNNai

kaLavinil uravidai aappUNdu eththiRam uralinOdum

iNainthirunthu Engkiya eLivE". His eLimai (sowseelyam)

is what caused Azhvar to faint for six months.

Thiruppanazhvar too thinks of Krishna only as

"veNNai uNda vAyan". Thiruppavai is dedicated to

Krishna in Gokulam. And so on.

 

Knowing that, it should not be surprising that Azhvars

did not sing much about the Kurukshetra war, the

Bhagavad Gita, Krishna's rule at Dwaraka, etc.

 

I look to bhaagavatas to add their thoughts and to

correct my opinion expressed above.

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

TCA Venkatesan

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Besides Naan Mugan Thiruvandhaadhi 71st Paasuram

 

"sEyan aNiyan ... as mentioned before..

 

There are few(two) more pasurams adiyen could recollect having heard

from elders ..

 

1) kOtramum sArA kOduvinayum sArA.... "

2) mAyan vurai kidakum vuLathenaKu"

 

regards

adiyen..

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

 

Dear Bhagavatas,

 

Salutations to all. Thought would share mine too in

response to Sri Venkatesan's and Sri Visu's posts. Although Bhagavad

Gita comes under smrti text,it is in par with upanisads as it does

nowhere contradict the sruti. The Sruti talks about so many topics

(deviating from parabrahman,let alone the ocean of His kalyANa guNAs

and His activities). Narada muni in Srimad Bhagavatham says this is

one of the defects of Veda Vyasa and hence the latter feels

incomplete even after compiling all the vedas and mahabharata.

So,Bhagavad Gita which is in alignment with the sruti talks about

karma yoga etc and then the trumpet/secret is released in 18:66. In

Chapter 11 when the Lord shows His virAta swarUpam,mentions His

attributes to arjuna and also says that He is only giving a few

glimpses of His infinite,Divine glory. Not that He can't express His

infiniteness to arjuna. The limitation is on the arjuna side. As such

HE only had to supply arjuna the "divine eye" to see HIS Vishva

rUpam.

 

This being the case,why would AzhvArs,who through nirhEtuka

krpa of the Lord,enjoyed His kalyANa guNAs thoroughly,mention about

Bhagavad Gita too often in their hymns? Yet,you do find lot of

references in NammAzhvAr's and Kaliyan's pAsurams(I have taken down

all those but right now my NDP book is at home).

 

The Lord could have bursted out the secret in the

beginning itself. Why does HE have to wait for 18 chapters? Because

Arjuna had wrong, false notions about dharma(Cf Sri PiLLai

LokAchArya's Mumukshuppadi). Arjuna was not learned.

 

So Mr visu,your assumption that "Gita is not for the

common man" is "ABSOLUTELY" wrong. Lord KrsNA was not a fool to waste

the purpose of His incarnation by only advising the learned men. It

is only with the intention that "every jeevatma should get released

from this never ending samsAra" ,HE gave GitOpadesam. And the

majority of jeevatmas can only be classified under the broad category

of "common man". Also one can learn a lot from Mahabharata. It's full

of complexities. Life is simple yet it becomes complicated by

ourselves. Children can't understand the nuances,intricacies and

complexities of relations! So you can't tell the kid the importance

of the "draupadi scene". Yet you can site some references from

mahabharata to the kid to explain some simple things about life. I

have come across so many oldies who ask the "purpose of life" at the

age of sixty. Though I do agree that Bhagavad Gita requires "some"

maturity,it is very difficult to draw a "clear line for maturity". My

niece(4 and 1/2 yrs old) knows some information about

azhvArs,ramanuja and manavALa mAmunigaL. If you ask her what Ramanuja

did,she will give an instantaneous reply "he,out of compassion for

all,told the secret of nArAyaNa manthram in TirukOshtiyUr". Why I am

saying this is to refute your statement that "kids do not need an

AzhvAr"

 

Finally,we don't know in what form that Lord will come in

front of us! Take the beautiful example of Kaliyan when he tried to

rob the Divine couple who were in the guise of young married couple!

Due to our Prakrti vAsana,we have the tendency to stick to false

upAyAs and hence we may not even realize if the Lord were standing

next to us. That's why HE says "I'm the eternal dharma;KrSNa dharma

sanatanam and BG18:66". There are lot of people(including myself)who

are physically matured but have wrongly understood the "true" message

of the Bhagavad Gita. It's left to the individual(under the mercy of

the Lord)to realize what "truth" means/is. Wrt nirhEtuka krpa,I like

to quote Gandhi. Gandhi, in his book "my experience with truth" had

openly declared that it is only out of "All-merciful" God(not

throught his effort)that he was saved from committing mistakes wrt

women(on three occasions)

 

Just wanted to share my quota of experiences in life,beg pardon if

said anything wrong or hurt anyone's feelings.

 

Wish everyone a happy celebration of "Mudal AzhvArs(Poikai,bhUta,pEy)"

Tirunakshatrams.

 

mayarvaRa mathinalam aruLappeRRa AzhvAr tiruvadigaLE saraNam

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

nappinnai