Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 sorry, I was on leave and upon returning just saw your mail. Ok, regarding Hitler: This is got nothing to do exclusively with food. Mark the words, exclusively. Food is one of the factors. You are right, Vegetarian does not mean calm and quiet. In fact it can be the opposite in most cases. The first factor is we - as also Hitler - are born with certain ingrained (genetic) design. This constantly mutates. This is Nature. The Sankhya talks about this quite interestingly. There is Prakriti which keeps on undergoing change constantly. Man is part of Prakurti. Food and for that matter,all "matter" is Prakriti. Prakriti is the primal, first cause and all others are the effect.It is akin to the H2o definition. 2 parts of Hydrogen and one part of oxygen form water, but one part of Hydrogen and two parts of oxygen is poison and harmful for humans. In the same way, what is poison to us is fuel/food to plants namely Carbon dioxide and vice versa i.e. oxygen is expelled by plants and inhaled by us. So there is an inherent, natural balance which is a cosmic mystery which cannot be unraveled under normal circumstances - more on this follows towards the end of this note. As per the Patanjali Yoga Sutras, our thought, act, words are interwoven in a very tight manner in a circular fashion, each feeding the other. So each thought, action, word leaves has a tendency to leave "samskaras" (not to be understood in the general sense of the 16 samskaras) but here these samskaras imply "impressions", indelible impressions.These impressions are etched onto the consciousness and inner mind, intellect or whatever you may call it. In modern Scientific language this is closest to genetic imprints. Therefore, whatever the mind sees it starts to identify with itself and the concept of "I" Ahmkara is born. Therefore, one starts to say "I am this, I am that , this is My name..and so on...". One of our basic acts is eating for survival. So food becomes one of the sources wherein the impressions are made onto the inner mind. And since food like us is Prakriti i.e. matter it is composed of three gunas i.e. Rajas, Satvic and Tamas. Even assuming humans do not need food, still humans will have qualities of Rajas, Tamas and Satvic in different proportions. So food by itself is not the only factor. One may have excessive Tamasic body, mind and limbs and intellect, but Satvic food may, repeat may, upset this balance and dilute the Tamasic tendency until Satvic starts to dominate. Rajas has the most critical role of activating, upsetting and initiating Satva and Tamas into action and motion. Under normal equilibrium when the universe is a big zero,all three Rajas,Tamas and Satva are deeply silent and inactive in relation with each other. Once Rajas starts pushing itself it has a ping pong effect on its side-brothers Tamas and Satva. Both of which start to get influenced and all the three then start interacting and mixing resulting in creation of matter i.e. Man, food, earth, water etc.Oxygen, hydrogen. Various combinations start happening. This keeps on happening for ages and thousands and zillions of mutations keep on taking place. Until on "judgement day" , to borrow the most convenient and appropriate phrase from the Bible and Quran, Pralaya takes place wherein everything is mass-destroyed and goes back into itself i.e. everything goes back to the pre-creation static state where all Gunas are within themselves. Hope this is not confusing? Please feel free to clarify if necessary. One is trying one's best to explain. Excuse the writer if you find this somewhat mysterious and far fetched. To continue. Now lets look at the concept of "Karma". This is much simpler and easier. These are residual impressions of our actions, desires and keep on ensuring that the cycle of Birth and death is eternally played. What is this Karma with reference to Yoga and Genetic theory of modern science? Karma is nothing but the impressions which as explained above which get etched onto the consciousness. The keyword is Cause/Effect cycle or the third law of Newton i.e. all cause will have an equal and reciprocal effect. So, one needs to be ever watchful, alert like a snake, Adiseshan on whose head the earth is balanced. Every act of mine leaves a impression, which impels me for further action, reaction or which causes action, reaction in another body/thing. And this results in an opposite action, reaction which will create a further impression on my consciousness and the cycle will keep on happening. I kill an ant. In my next birth maybe for 1 hr I will be born as an ant and someone may kill me. But while as an ant, I bite a dog to and relish the bite and the food (the flesh etc.), then I am hiking and introducing Rajasic tendencies and this will reinforce my Rajasic qualities and thus I may invite violence from say a crow who wants to push me out to partake the flesh. Alternatively, I may bite a human and in annoyance he/she may slap me and kill or maim me. It all depends on the force,ferocity and intensity of my earlier act on the ant when I was a human. I may die, and at that very moment, may think of a city, and remember my good old free days 1000 years ago in one of my past births as a wild ass in the desert. My next birth will be the last impression i.e.wild ass. The story of Jada Bharata might be interesting to you in this regard. There was a good, just king. On old age, he gave up the throne to his son and mended to the forest to meditate. Here after a long long passage of time, he was about to achieve Samadhi or 'see the Lord" and attain the Lotus Feet literally. He had to persevere some more and he would be in Vaikuntham forever, freed from the eternal birth/death cycle. Suddenly, one day when he was about to bathe in the river he found that a pregnant / laboring deer about to deliver and was being chased by a tiger. The deer jumped into the river to escape and in the process died. At the moment of dying it gave birth and the baby started struggling in the water. The tiger had gone by then. The king saw this whole episode and felt pity (remember, felt i.e. impressions are being etched now) on the doe. He rescued it, nursed it, feed it. In the very act of feeding, nursing, he felt compassion, attachment, love for the simple, innocent and dumb creature i.e. felt. Remember, both his first feeling of pity and subsequent acts, all are Satvic. Now,a stage came when as the baby started to grow, and the king's original concern, care for the safety of the doe became Rajasic i.e. it became an obsession. He could not meditate freely. He could not empty his soul,mind as there were some more fragments of impressions/samskaras left. He wanted the doe to grow strong, mate, be safe, enjoy nature etc. Note, He wanted, now the original feeling of compassion becomes a gnawing want/desire. This gnawing is the result of the genetic mutation mentioned earlier in the first para. Now he could not stay a moment away from the deer. The deer had become a "dear", which is another word for Costly proposition. Don't we see so and so thing is too "dear" or cheap. So this lead him to neglect his primary duty of meditation. He was in the same state as when was a king when he was concerned about the welfare of his subjects.Now a deer was his subject. Now as he was about to die, the last and first thought was not for himself (no selfish Rajasic,Tamasic thought, but a Satvic thought) "oh what will happen to the dear child?...who will look after it?. He died and this last impression ensured that in the next birth he was born as a deer. Now, his original work of meditation had been interrupted when he rescued the doe the first time. So, this new born deer (which was the king really, was full of Satva and used to always be near the ashram of holy people, listen to holy talk of Sanyasis and so on. Eventually, since it did not act,do, talk, think anything else but was working out its own salvation. The king-deer then was reborn as the last brother in a priest's family. He continued to be perfectly aware of his previous births and events and was still keen to continue his quest for Moksha and therefore decided to remain totally silent, do as was told and never answer back, not harm anyone and be totally indifferent to pain and pleasure. In due course, everyone including his brothers, relations, neighbors took him to be a madman, a silent good for nothing fool fit for exploitation for hard labor. He was nick named Jada Bharata, the Jada prefix denoting total good-for-nothing-fellow He kept on with his silence and went about his work. Once while he was resting on the wayside, an educated king was being carried on a palanquin by bearers and wanted to rush. The guards called-up Jada Bharata taking him to be a jobless man and commanded him to take one end of the palanquin handle on his shoulders, which without any comment he complied with. However, since he did not want to harm any creature consciously and was in a constant state of enlightened meditation, he kept on shifting his feet this way and that way to avoid the creatures coming in the way. This action jerked the palanquin considerably and the king felt some discomfort and enquired as to who and why this was taking place. When he was told that the new recruit was trying to shake and walking zigzag and causing the jerky movements, the king wanted to punish the offending palanquin bearer. It was then that for the first and last time Jada Bharata replied politely "I am not the body,so the punishment will not have any effect.....". The king was astounded at the deep and lofty description and quickly prostrated before Jada Bharata and requested him to teach him, which Jada Bharata readily complied and subsequently Jada Bharata attained salvation. Now lets look at yet another concept of transmission of Karmas : As the popular saying goes "amma appa panradhu kozanthigalai kakum...". The best example is nonperformance of daily Sandhyavandanam. If this is not done properly and is discontinued for 3 generations, then the entire clan/family is likely to come to great and continued grief for ages down the line. If the father commits steals and has escaped the police, he may not have a peaceful end. He may have accumulated enough for 10 generations but they may not be able to enjoy the same; We all are well aware of this. The sins not absolved in the lifetime apart from attaching to ones' children also attach like bad Karma to be worked out in the next birth. The clutches of Kala and Karma are very tight. On top of this, we have the dictates of Dharma which says "Pitru devotion like Shardha etc, must be done as prescribed and cannot be taken lightly". This ensures that both the pitru as well as your own (the Karta's doer's) sins, problems, psycho-genetic baggage is lightened and eventually everyone merges into the unknown. Dovetailing all the concepts above, we come down to Hitler's case, it is possible, though this is conjecture at this point, that a small, casual, seemingly insignificant act,word or thought of one or many of his forefather(s) may have: a. either not cared for their forefathers' or b. might have shown disrespect to some worthy person or c. might have caused considerable harm to someone or d. might not have done his/her duty enjoined by Dharma The smallest reason is enough. Two staunch devotees of our ever favourite LORD Vishnu were enjoyed the greatest boon anyone can get i.e. to be the Dwarapalakas for the LORD. Their devotion and loyalty were fierce. They were firmly established in their duties and did not change their stance once when some divine children (saints in fact) wanted to visit the LORD. The dwarapalaka-devoutees refused to allow the divine children and were somewhat rude and casual in their attitude of shooing away the divine kids who cursed them to be born as asuras on the earth. The devoutee-guards implored with the Divya Dampathis to intervene and nullify the curse. The LORD refused to accept this because an act had already been done and this had already unleashed an equally opposite reaction and the cycle had to be completed. However, the LORD asked them to choose whether they desired to : a. Be born as human-devoutees on earth for 100 birth cycles OR B. Be born as demons and trouble makers for 3 birth cycles Both choose option (B) since all they wanted was to at the gate of the LORD in HIS service as quickly as possible. They asked the LORD to make sure that their death is through HIS holy hands.The LORD obliged them by taking different avataras and ensured that their salvation was quick. Who are these worthy souls? In their second birth they are Ravana and Kumbarkarna !!!!They were born, bred, and died as totally Rajasic and Tamasic without a trace of Satva. Being asuras, as per the Dharma laws they ate only Rajasic/Tamasic food. They maimed, tortured and harmed millions, did all unjust acts and ultimately attained the Lotus Feet of that GREAT MAHAVISHNU Myriad and mysterious are the Lord's designs and it is beneath our capacity and capability to question or even wonder. On the one hand you have colossal killer earthquakes like the one in Gujarat and on the other you have the 9/11 World Trade Center bombings. Millions perish.Surely not everyone has sinned? where is the Justice one may ask? But there could be? who knows? Hitler may have been a divine design of an earthquake, a 9/11 bombing equivalent in that period Reading the Yoga Sutras could give you a better insight into the whole gamut of this great mysterious game of the LORD, often termed as Maya.The Yoga path says clearly : a.such and such are the gunas b. Such is the way to salvation, though salvation is not defined/described c. such and such are the foods, enjoyments, fruits etc. available d. mind /intellect is something which each one must use to wade thru (a) (b) © e. eventually in the end, after wading thru (a)(b) ©, empty the mind and arrive at Samadhi or merge with the Supreme, attain Brahman, know yourself, moksha,nirvana or any other word you care to use. The mystery seems to have been solved. Example of such persons : Shri Ramanuja, Shri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Shri Ramana Maharishi, the Sankracharyars, the Jeeyars. f. the path which one must travel is called " ashtanga" or 8 parts. You have a choice. Use it judiciously. Brandy is alcohol and an evil to be avoided, but in Tibet if one is stranded and develops pneumonia and numbing of the limbs, then brandy is the one and only sure fire treatment for bringing warmth into the body. Such a consumer is not a drunkard or Tamasic/Rajasic. He continues to be Satvic. But if he begins to lick his tongue to his lips and thinks of the ' enjoyment' the Brandy offered, he becomes Tamasic/Rajasic. The mutation has taken place. Satvic food may impart some Satvic tendencies, but then he /she may not necessarily be free from envy and anger, revenge etc. Who has cooked the food, who has sown the wheat and reaped the corn also matters. Eating a cup of fat free curd in a hotel daily and having the same home prepared lovingly by your mother is all the difference between Rajasic and Satvic. The server may be unclean, unknown careless mistakes, mix-up may have taken place in the hotel. It is common knowledge that Rasam ladle is used to mix/churn Sambhar also in hotels. The same hand which makes the McDonald French fries also cuts the beef for the pizza. The Great Krishnapremi's example often quoted by some of his disciples may be noted. A very upright honest man on a rainy day seeks shelter in a wayside house. The householder is courteous and kindly offers him food and water. The next day the honest man departs, but half way finds to his shock that he has unconsciously and without intention or thought lifted a silver vessel from the house where he was a guest the previous night. He returns and after apologizing gives back the vessel. But he is still unable to understand why/how he even had the thought of doing such a dishonest act. By and by he enquired and found that the householder who had given him food / water was a part time thief by profession. Sudarsanam Ranga Bhargavan <Sudarsanam.ranga_bhargavan (AT) adcc (DOT) s.ramachandran alcatel.be> cc: Subject: Excellent explanation!! 12/09/02 09:36 AM Hello, Abivadaye Bhargava syavan avlavan avoorva jamadagni pancha rishayaha, pravarnmitha, srivatsa gotra aavastambha sootra yadush shaakadyaye Ranga bhargava sarman aham asmibho!!!!! Dear Swamin, It was giving me immense pleasure to read your notes. But, what justification is given to "hitlers action of racism". I could justify in my view as that, he was an vegetarian but what sort of food did he have does matters. It is no where said (according to me) that, vegetarians are calm and polite. BUt it is said that saatvic food makes them polite and calm. Here calm means, who is free of envy, pride anger(here revenge etc). Am i correct. As he said that "Garlic have medicinal values," that doesnt mean that taking crocin daily a bit would avoid fever, its true but lead me to some other organ's mal-function.. eagerly waiting for your reply, Bhargav Tamasic/Rajasic foods for medicinal purpose ?Response to Shri VK Ranganathan regarding Garlic The words Tamasic, Satvic and Rajasic must be read in conjunction with the broad classification based on very sound and extremely reasonable logic of the Vedas. The Samkhya philosophy - derived from the Vedas - and which is the base for Yoga one of the most crucial factor in the daily life of an individual refers to the above 3 gunas which Prakriti always possesses. In fact ancient Yogic texts mention this in brief " hita mita aharam" (One is not sure of the exact Sanskrit Pronouncation) Garlic by itself is not an issue. The 'bhava' or attitude is important. If garlic or onion is taken to satisfy one's cravings and taste buds then will kindle the baser and other negative electro-chemical impulses in our nervous system from the brain and this will result in one more record to be etched onto our genetic code. The moment any food is consumed for medicinal purposes or for survival necessity - here again,the highest intent should be for having enough mental and physical stamina/strength to serve the Lord - thent such food automatically becomes Satvic and in fact is outside the purview of Rajasic/Tamasic The Chinese one of the world's most ancient civilisations have been consuming garlic and avoiding milk for thousands of years. They also succeed, live, enjoy the benefits of this earth, enjoy the Lords blessings and live long. In fact many of the old-fashioned Chinese and especially Japanese live over 110 years. In Japan eating a particular species of fish raw with salt is said to promote longivity - both the Chinese and the Japanese consume this due to : a. ready availibility over the ages b. non-availiblity / non-exposure to other types of foods c. having the normal human tendency to 'walk the trodden path' attitude i.e. this was what was being eaten by my ancestors and thats it. The 'Rajasic' factor of desire for more relish is missing in (a) (b) ©. However, the impact of the Rajasic factor cannot be avoided like 'destiny'. So, the Chinese mentality is always - more unknowingly despite their strong affinity to Buddhism etc. - somewhat cruel to fellow creatures. They can kill any walking, crawling, creeping creature at the drop of a hat. Butchering is a routine part of their daily lives. This is due to the inherent nature of the Rajasic /Tamasic food The same can be said broadly of the Moslem world. Everywhere, the impact/effect of going in for such type of food cannot be avoided. The heredity factors, genetic factors and behaviorial tendencies of such civilisations are bound to be impediments to their path of progress towards Divinity. Linking this with a 'bhava' / attitude of greed, one can easily see that if an attitude of indulging exists then such a consumption of even Satvic food becomes a problem. It is therefore, for these very reasons you will find only among the Indians/Hindus, especially, the base attitude of Ahimsa, etc. ingrained into their daily living that at least people like the members of this group of SriVaishnavaites are able to at least talk of the Lord and about their Acharyas and Sampradayas. For the Chinese and Moslem maybe lets say the salvation may work out in a delayed fashion. Even here, if you come across the famed and secretive Shaolin monks in Burma, Thailand and inner China, you will find they avoid garlic, onion etc. and even meat. These monks are of an ancient order and have great powers. They are literally yogis. they avoid Rajasic/Tamasic food. Close home we have the Jains who avoid all plant food grown underground like Potatoes, Yam etc. Here the attitude is involved. The Hindu / Indian / Vedic system has been worked out ages ago taking into account all such things and the various sastras have identified that such and such type of foods will be (a) available (b) created by nature and © will have so and so tendencies. As man progresses mentally he is supposed to CONSCIOUSLY as a matter of discernment avoid Rajasic and Tamasic food. Live and let live should be the motto. As he progresses further, the more enlightened he becomes because of food and other habits and attitude, he may give up foods and live on a bare minimum irrespective of taste. Trust the writer was able to contribute something to this discussion thread. Our Acharayas, Jeeyars are all famous for living long periods on just a handful of puffed rice or milk and fruits. The writer gives below glorious words from one of the most enlightened and holiest godly incarnation, the Paramacharya of Kanchi. FROM THE MAHA PERIAVA SHR SHRI CHANDRASEKHARA SARASWATHI SANKARACHARYAR ON HINDU DHARMA ""..........To sustain ourselves, we cause hurt to so many creatures, don't we? We take pride in keeping our house clean but we forget that every household is a butchery. According to dharmasastras it is not one butchery but five butcheries together. What are these five? Pancasuna grhasthasya vartante harahah sada Khandani pesani culli jalkumbha upaskarah Khandani is used to cut vegetables- it stands for one type of butchery. Vegetables also do have life. The second butchery is represented by the grinding our pounding stone. We mercilessly grind corn, pulses, etc, in it. Here an answer must be given to objections raised by meat-eaters about vegetarian food. They tell us:"Like the goats, cows and fowl that we eat, vegetables and cereals also have life. "True. Though there is no difference in kind between them, there is a difference in the degree of violence done to vegetables and animals. Plants have life and feelings like humans but they do not have the sensation of pain to the same degree as animals and birds have. This has been scientifically established. Also, but for certain leafy vegetables which we uproot to be prepared as food, most other vegetables are obtained from plants without killing them: it is like removing our nails or hair. The plant suffers only a little pain. Pain even to this degree will not be caused if we eat the fruits of these plants after they drop ripe. As for the cereals they are harvested only after the crop is ripe and dry. There is one more argument in favour of vegetarianism. Now only certain types of meat like beef are eaten. Horsemeat is not usually eaten. During World War I or II, when the question arose as to whether the soldiers could be fed horsemeat, the non-vegetarians themselves opposed the idea. People who think it civilized to eat birds and animals condemn tribes in some remote land who eat human flesh as barbarous and call them cannibals. We must tell meat-eaters who remind us that vegetables also have life. "Yes, but when it comes to violence, are all creatures the same? Why do you make a difference between animal flesh and human flesh? Similarly, we make a distinction between plants and animals. Vegetarianism also promotes sattvic qualities. "Unavoidably, for the sake of existence, we have to keep at home instruments of butchery like the khandani, pesani, etc. The third butchery is represented by the culli or the kitchen fire. Many insects perish in the cooking fire. An ant crawls about the oven or fireplace and is burnt. Sometimes when we keep a pot on the floor or the shelf an insect or two get crushed. In the summer insects come seeking wet places, places for example where vessels are kept. The water-pot is also included among the objects of butchery. Then there is the upaskara, the broomstick. Aren't many tiny insects killed as we sweep the floor? Thus there are five instruments or objects of butchery in our home. We must not cause harm even to those creatures that hurt us. But what do we do? We cause pain to, or kill, even harmless creatures. It is sad to think that to live, to sustain ourselves, we have to keep hurting so many living things. But it all seems unavoidable. We do not kill deliberately. There is an expiation for the sin committed unwittingly. It is the prayascitta of the "vaisvadeva". We perform this function to ask the Lord to forgive us our sin of having caused the destruction of various creatures and to pray for their happiness in afterlife. Vaisvadeva is meant for the excommunicated and for all creatures of earth like dogs, crows, insects, all. This rite absolves us of many a sin. The pancha-mahayajnas were conducted for eons by the sages, by the children of Brahma. All performed them from the hoary past until the time of our grandfathers. The five great sacrifices are to be performed uninterruptedly until the deluge. But we have had the "good fortune" of having broken this tradition. Worse, we have deprived future generations of the benefits to be derived from them. I have dealt with a variety of rites. Perform at least those you can without prejudice to your office or professional work. If you fail to do so you must be regretful and make amends for the same. Preserving the Vedas: Why it is a Lifetime Mission from Hindu Dharma This chapter contains an illuminating exposition of the physics and metaphysics of sound. .... .....by the cowherd and also use it to make buttermilk; we cook our food in the pot made by the potter. We find that all jatis provide commodities useful for the society. What is the Brahmin's contribution in this context? What vocation is assigned to him by the Sastras which are the basis of varna dharma? .........One more thing. We need food for our sustenance. And to grow food there must be rain. The formation of clouds and their precipitation are dependent on certain vibrations. Rainfall depends on the production of particular sounds which, in turn, create particular vibrations. The same applies to all our needs in life. It is true that unnecessary and evil objects are also produced .... But the one and only goal of the sound of the Vedas is the creation of well-being throughout the world...... There have to be differences between the jatis based on food, work and surroundings. The photographer needs a dark room to develop his films. To shoot a film, on the contrary, powerful lights are needed. Those who work in a factory canteen have to scrupulously clean; but those who dust machinery wear soiled clothes. This does not mean that the waiter in a canteen is superior to the factory hand who dusts machines. The man who takes the utmost care to keep himself intellectually bright, without any thought of himself, observes fasts, while the soldier, who has to be strong and tough, eats meat. .... Why should there be bad feelings between the two, between the Brahmin and the Ksatriya? Does the Brahmin have to come into physical contact with the Ksatriya To prove that he does not bear any ill-will towards him? If he interdined with the Ksatriya he would be tempted to taste meat and such a temptation might eventually drag him into doing things that militate against his own duty. Each community has its own duties, customs and food habits. If all jatis mixed together on the pretext of equality without regard to their individual ways of life, all work would suffer and society itself would be plunged into confusion. It was with a definite purpose in view that the village was divided into different quarters: the agrahara (the Brahmin quarter), the agriculturists quarter and so on. Such a division was possible in rural life but not in the the new urban way of living. With urbanization and industrialization it becomes necessary for people belonging to various jatis to work together on the same shift, sit together in the same canteen to ear the same kind of food. The Brahmin for whom it is obligatory to observe fasts and vows and to perform various rites was now seen to be no different from others. Office and college timings were a hindrance to the carrying out of these rites. So the Brahmin ithrtew them to the winds. He had so far taken care to perform these rites with the good of others in mind. Like a trustee, he had protected dharma for the sake of society and made its fruits available to all. ....All that belonged to the past. .... The Brahmin spoiled himself and spoiled others. By abandoning his dharma he became a bad example to others. as a matter of fact, even by strictly adhering to his dharma the Brahmin in not entitled to feel superior to others. Qs ======================== Priya Bhatawatas, Our Acharyas say that some Tamasic/Rajasic foods when prescribed by doctors specifically to cure certain ailments may be taken TILL IT IS CURED, if it comes to survival issue as 'Atmahatya mahapaathakam'. . That means such Tamasic/Rajasic foods probably are required for patients but not for healthy people. Still, such ailments are nothing compared to the biggest ailment called samsaric disease. Thus if a patient has a big heart problem and if some food is advised to cure a small ailment like cold/cough which may not be good for heart; then it is better for the patient to suffer from lighter pain than endanger his heart/life. Similarly some Tamasic/Rajasic foods even though are medicines for certain problems, they endanger us by preventing us from leading a life of a Mumukshu ( who eats to live and not viceversa). Thus a sincere Mumukshu will never argue over prohibited foods, but still probes for any other foods/intakes that are still preventing him from leading a Mumukshu life with non stop attachment to Tiruvadi of Acharya/Emberumanar/Azhwar/Srimannarayana Jai Srimannarayana Sarvaaparaadhamulatow Dr. Kilambi Ramakrishna Ramanuja Dasan -- Walk with a Hope in your Heart and You will never Walk Alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.