Devatantara bhajanam not acceptable due to the ILLUSIONED TRUTH - - READ ON

[Guest guest]

Humble Pranams to all the bhagavatas,

 

It is undoubtedly, definetly true that Sriman Narayana is the

"antaryami" of all the moving/unmoving entities in this world. To be more

specific he is the antaryami of human beings, plants, creatures etc of this

universe.

 

On extending the above doctrine, "HE" is the definite anyaryami of

all the annya devatas also.

 

TRUTH still remains as TRUTH, eventhough it is covered by an

illusion and projected as falsehood. Why our poorvacharyas have CLEARLY

rejected anya devata worship is due to the perception of this ultimate TRUTH

in a illusioned manner.

 

All the temples, which have consecrated devatas prescribed in vedas,

are constructed as per respected Agamas.

 

(One point to be noted is AGAMAS are not part of Vedas)

 

For Example a vishnu temple is constructed as per

Pancharatra/Vaikanasa Agama.

 

A Shiva/Rudhra temple is constructed as per Saiva Agama.

 

A Shakti temple is consctrued as per Sakya agama. Like this the list

goes on.

 

Here comes the problem,

 

A Rudhra moorthi in a Shiva temple has been consecrated as SHIVA is

the ULTIMATE TRUTH. This is WHAT I EXPLAINED PREVIOUSLY AS an illusioned

truth. We can definetly worship Shiva, if he has been consecrated as an

"Adiyar" or "bhagavata" of Sriman Narayana.

 

That is what we have been doing with our Azhwars and Acharyas.

We prostrate to the consecrated Archa vigrahas of our Azhwars and

Acharyas, since they have never proclaimed that they are GODS. They have

always proclamied that they are servants of GOD.

 

This is what is lacking, if we go to a Shiva/Shakthi/Vinayaka

temple.

They have been consecrated in the respective temples as they are the

ultimate TRUTH. If we go inside the temple and prostrate before them, it is

as good as accepting that, they are the ULTIMATUMS AND rejecting that Sriman

Narayana is not the ULTIMATUM. This can never be accepted.

 

Then a question can arise. Can we worship a picture in our homes,

containing a Rudhra/Vinayaka etc.

Yes definetly we can do, if we have the Gnayanam and vairakyam that

HE(Sriman Narayana) is IN them, and the workship or prayer we are offering

is ultimately reaching him not Rudhra/Vinayaka.

 

But how many of us, have that temperment? Definetly adiyen doesnt

have that. So why to complicate things, when Shriman Narayana himself is

there up front, why we have to imagine something and worship somebody else?

It can very well be avoided.

 

Adiyen has clearly mentioned that IT IS ONLY TO BE AVOIDED NOT TO

DISRESPECT THEM. Then that becomes a greatest Bhagavata Apacharam, as Rudhra

himself is a great bhagavata.

 

Adiyen would like to stop with this. Adiyen due to my ignorance has

spilled some from my mind and reqeust correction on any mistakes.

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Varadarajan

 

 

 

 

 

> ramanuja [sMTP:ramanuja]

> Saturday, January 11, 2003 7:16 PM

> ramanuja

> [ramanuja] Digest Number 408

>

> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

>

> ------

>

> There are 23 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in this digest:

>

> 1. Question about manu ?

> Kiran Kumar Indukuri <indkirru.

a

>

>

> 2. Darshan at Sholingar

> Srinivasaramanujan aTCA cas

> 3. thiruppavai 25

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> 4. Mumukshuppadi - 111

> "vtca <vtca" <vtca

> 5. We can achieve nothing; God will achieve all things

> "tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural

> <tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural"

> <tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural

> 6. vishayap prAvaNyam -Part I

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> 7. TiruvAymozhi & Bhagavad Gita

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc"

> <nappinnai_nc

> 8. Indignation at sholingur: Sharing other good experiences

> Mukund Srinivasan <msmn1

> 9. Gaganagiri Muni guru paramparA prabhAvam-6

> Varadarajan Sourirajan <varadarajan_tcs

> 10. Gaganagiri Muni guru paramparA prabhAvam-7

> Varadarajan Sourirajan <varadarajan_tcs

> 11. Thiruppavai 26

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> 12. ANdAL's anya devata worship

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc"

> <nappinnai_nc

> 13. Devatantara bhajanam

> Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr

> 14. Andal's reference to Kamadeva

> "realvaishnav <danp" <danp

> 15. Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc"

> <nappinnai_nc

> 16. Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

> 17. Re: Devatantara bhajanam

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

> 18. Re: Devatantara bhajanam

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc"

> <nappinnai_nc

> 19. Mumukshuppadi - 112

> "vtca <vtca" <vtca

> 20. Correction of Pasuram

> Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr

> 21. Jan 11 to 17: Bhagawad Geetha (Eng), Thiruppavai (Acharya Prama)

> (Tam), Santhai

> Pattangi <danp

> 22. RE: Re: Devatantara bhajanam

> "Gunaseelan V" <gunav

> 23. Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 1

> Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:53:26 +0000 (GMT)

> Kiran Kumar Indukuri <indkirru

> Question about manu ?

>

> Jai Srimannarayana!!

> My Namaskarams to all the members!

>

> Dear Members,

>

> I have some suggestions about reform in Hindu society.

> Vedic culture preaches "vasudeva kutumbakam " Or World

> is one family.

>

> But sadly, discrimination based on caste has creeped

> into Hindu society. The foundation for all the caste

> based discrimination, as far as I know, is based on

> manu Dharmasastra which forbids the so-called lower

> caste people from reading Vedas.

>

> So I would like to suggest to the Respected Chinna

> Jeeyar Swamiji, to take initiative for internal reform

> in the Hindu society which has plagued us in the last

> thousand years.

>

> In fact, His Holiness Poojyasri Jayendra Saraswati

> Swamigal of Kãnchi Kãmakoti Peetham has commented on

> the irrelevance of Manu Smirthi in public interviews.

>

> My Question to Swamiji is: Do you accept Manu

> Dhramasastra or Reject it?

>

> Please correct me if was wrong in my statements.

>

> My Respects,

> Kiran

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 2

> Thu, 9 Jan 2003 19:14:05 -0800 (PST)

> Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr

> Darshan at Sholingar

>

> Sub: Darshan at Sholingar

> The experience of Sri Suresh Rajagopalan is very

> unpleasant. I had similar experience with the Archakas

> in two of my three recent worships at the Kshetra.

> I have had similar experiences of indifference and

> lack of dedication on the part of Archakas in other

> holy places.

> One reason is that their job has become a drudgery

> owing to its repetitive nature. Except for the very

> committed few, the rituals have become a

> rigmarole.Preference to devotees who pay money or who

> have influence has spiled the sanctitity of most

> shrines. We can help by not getting out of turn

> darshan by giving money or using influence.

> Tirumangai Azhwar, when he did not get Darshan at Tiru

> Idavendai[now known as Thiruvidandai near

> Mahabalipuram] went away to Mahabalipuram, where

> Idavendai emberuman gave him Darshan. Att Tiru

> Indalur, when he did not get Darshan, he said,

> Vaasivalleer Indalooreer vaazhnde pom neere.

> Maybe the Archakas take Nammazhwar's abjuration,

> Kaatenmin nummuru en uyirkku adu kaalane.

> There is one thing which we should ponder. In many

> temples, only Brahmins get preference in overt or

> covert ways. The others, unless they have money or

> influence,generally get short shrift. This is causing

> great resentment. Unless genuine grievances are

> redressed, temple worship, which is one of the five

> methods of contemplation of the Divine, may suffer.

>

> Regards,TCASrinivasaramanujan

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 3

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:21:18 +0530

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> thiruppavai 25

>

> varuthamum thErndhu magizhndhu

>

> 'oruthi maganAi' pAsuram ends with the term 'varuthamum thErndu

> magizhndhu'. The removal of all the sufferings and ultimate happiness.

> When one's sufferings are destroyed completely, enjoyment and happiness

> automatically follows. Then what is the need for AndAL's two exprssions

> varutham thEral and magizhal.

>

> The release from cycle of births and the Lord's kainkaryam is indicated

> here. When the cycle of births is removed the soul attains release from

> the bondage. This is also a form of salvation. kaivalyam. The soul enjoys

> itself. However,is it the ultimate enjoyment? No. Even in the process of

> removal of this dhukkam-pains-the happiness is attained is what is

> expressed here.

>

> The commentaries are incisive in this regard.The commentary runs like this

> " kEvalaraip pOlE Dhuka nivruthi mAthram anRE ivargaLukku prayOjanam;

> anusanthAna kAlathil anubavakAlam pOlE iruppadhu". Even when the Lord's

> qualities are chanted and praised the pain is gone and happiness is

> attined. PeriyAzhwAr also mentions like this in the pAsuram

> "ninaindhirundhE siramam thErndhEAn" periyAzhwAr thiru mozhi 5-4-8.

>

> "varutham thErugaikku sEVagam pAdinArgaL. magihzchi piRakkaikku selvam

> pAdinArgaL" is another explanation in this context. sEVagam is Lord's

> valour. Lord's valour protects us from harm.This is "varutham thErndhu".

> Lord's selvam is 'thiruthakka selvam'. srE sambandham which is the seed

> for happiness.

> varuthamum-thErndhu magizhndhu.

> vAnamAmalai padmanAbhan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 4

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:09:02 -0000

> "vtca <vtca" <vtca

> Mumukshuppadi - 111

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

>

> Sri Pillai Lokacharya's

> Mumukshuppadi

>

> Sutra:

> 111. *anRu nAn piRanthilEn piRanthapin maRanthilEn*

> ennA ninRArkaLiRE.

>

> Meaning:

> Having got the knowledge of the Lord they stand without

> forgetting Him as per Thirumazhisai Azhvar's "anRu nAn

> piRanthilEn piRantha pin maRanthilEn".

>

> Sri PBA Swami's Sarartha Deepikai:

> Also, as told by Thirumazhisai Azhvar (Thiruccantha

> Viruththam 64) "anRu nAn piRanthilEn piRantha pin

> maRanthilEn", for those who are born into the

> knowledge of the Lord, there is no chance whatsoever

> of forgetting it.

>

> By this thus far, it is shown that for those who have

> understood the divine qualities and the indescribable

> greatness of the Lord, the prayer to perform service

> will happen without any stop.

>

> Pillai Lokacharyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

> Azhvar Emperumanar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

>

> adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

> TCA Venkatesan

>

> Mumukshuppadi Sarartha Deepikai Series:

> http://www.acharya.org/vyakyanam/mumukshuppadi/index.html

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 5

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:08:42 -0000

> "tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural

> <tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural"

> <tiruvarankattucelvanaikamural

> We can achieve nothing; God will achieve all things

>

> "Nine centuries have elapsed since Ramanuja's period. Is it possible

> for the temples to get back to the state the way it was during some

> centuries ago? Do you think we can achieve the result by being tender

> and compassionate not only wrt divya desams but many dealings in

> this "so called" modern world? It's a serious question"

> [sow.Nappinnai].

>

> Respected Sow. Nappinnai and members of the Ramanuja list:

>

> I hope the following thoughts are marginally useful:

>

> Firstly, regarding "Do you think we can achieve the result by being

> tender and compassionate" let us be absolutely clear: WE can achieve

> nothing. We are neither the Upaya nor the Upeya. But that does not

> mean we should DO nothing. Let us follow the path of tenderness and

> compassion - not because it may work or not work- but because that is

> the path our Purvacaryas have told us to walk. After all, we are to

> be prapannas, not pragmatists.

>

> Secondly, 'money grabbing' in some Divya Desas should not distract

> our attention from the fact that an overwhelming number of Divya

> Desas, and the Archakas serving therein, are in an impoverished

> condition. There are many postings on this list allowing us the

> chance to get involved in excellent renovation projects. Moreover,

> Swamy Varadarajan Sourirajan urges that not only can we provide

> vastrams and essential articles (rice, ghee, cash for bhattars, etc.)

> but we should also not fall shy of some good old fashioned kaimkarya:

>

> "Get some broom sticks from the local market where the temple is, so

> that we ourselves can clean the prakarams . . . .[post 979 on the

> Ramanuja List]"

>

> Society may yet become so irregular that anyone who follows the above

> advice will be considered mad, eccentric or even a nuisance. Neither

> heed nor condemn such critics. If you can, pray for them; otherwise

> just ignore them. The only approval you need is that of your Acarya

> as He claps and says "well played my faithful servant."

>

> Yet one of the reasons why too often even sincere people do nothing

> is a sense of 'hopelessness'. 'The problem is so bad, that what's the

> point of trying to do something about it?'. Such apathy can only be

> avoided if we remember that the struggle to revive our sampradaya is

> not primarily our, but HIS, struggle. Ultimately, let us always

> remember that whilst we can achieve nothing, The Lord will achieve

> all things. So take peace from His faithfulness. He has seen our

> sampradaya through worse times than the present. When the Divya

> Prabhandhas were almost lost, He sent us Sri Nathamunighal; When

> monism grew out of control, He sent Sri Ramanuja; when heresies

> threatened to corrupt the truth He sent Sri Manavalamamunighal; when

> we needed a champion He sent Swamy P.B Anangaracharya. Even today,

> the divine presence of those as H.H. Vanamamalai Jeer and H.H.

> SrimanNarayan Jeer is reassuring proof that the Lord will never

> abandon us.

>

> It is true we live in uncertain times. But dont get unnerved by

> archakas, officials or other irregularities in our modern world. God

> has the situation under control. Trust Him. Of all the people who

> might let us down, Sriranganatha is not one of them.

>

> Your servant, S. Ramanujadasan

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 6

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:53:51 +0530

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> vishayap prAvaNyam -Part I

>

> Dear rAmAnujA devotees,

> There has been discussion going on regarding dhEvadhAndhra bhajanam and

> vishayap prAvaNyam.

>

> I hope everybody accepts that dhEvadhAndhra bhajanam is not tenable and is

> not a point of discussion.However,I would like to draw a few sUthram-s

> from srEvachaNa bhUshaNam which details the dangers of ahankAram and

> vishayap-prAvaNyam.

> srEvachaNa bhUshaNam

> sUthram 180 - "thannaithAnE mudikkai Avadhu ahankArathaiyum,

> vishayangaLayum virumbugai"

> One finishes off himself if he becomes a slave to ego and also is a

> captive of vishayap-prAvaNyam.

> What is 'AhankAram' -AhankAram Avadhu

> 1. dhEhAthmibAnamum- Being very dear to one's body and soul.

> 2. swAdhandharyAbimAnamum- Being independent.

> The soul which is for the Lord shoud be dedicated to the Lord. Instead,

> the independence and desire in oneself -both body and soul- leads to

> ahankaram and vishayap prAvaNyam.

>

> 181-ahankAram -agni sparsam pOlE

> The impact of ahankAram which has been described as one's desire in body

> and soul, is likened to friction with fire. When anything touches fire,

> the thing gets destroyed instantly. Likewise, the swarUpam-the soul's

> innate characteristic gets completely destroyed because of ahankAram.

>

> 183. pradhikUla vishayasparsam visha sparsam pOlE.

> anukUla vishayasparsam vishamisra bhOjanam pOlE

>

> Having explained the impact of ahankAram, the impact of vishayap-prAvaNyam

> is now being explained.

>

> Being involved and very much desiring in things which are proscribed by

> 'sAshtrAs' and which may lead to 'hell' is termed here as 'pradhikUla

> vishya sparsam'

> Those things which attract us but are prohibited by the scriptures and

> will also result in hell is like consuming poison ending the swarUpam

> instanstaneously.

>

> Being attracted to those things which are not so debarred by scriptures

> and also do not lead to hell, appear to be harmless unlike the former, but

> will also lead to swarUpa nAsam which is likened to a food mixed with

> poison.

>

> The point here is that vishaya sparsam is dangerous.

>

> 187. agnAnanAna vishyap pravANan nAsthiganaip pOlE; gnAnavAnAna vishayap

> pravaNan Asthika nAsthiganaip pOle.

>

> Those who do not have the knowledge that desires -five sensory

> organs/materialsitic ends-are dangerous are like atheists.

> Those who do know the negative points of this but still have desires are

> like pseudo-believers.

>

> 188, kEvala nAsthiganaith thiruthalAm;Asthiga nAsthiganai orukkAlum

> thirutha voNNAdhu.

>

> Those who are like atheists can be rescued by educating them.

> Those who have knowledge but still have such deviations cannot be rescued.

> The latter is more dangerous.

>

> (To be continued)

> vAnamAmalai padmanAbhan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 7

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:16:38 -0000

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc" <nappinnai_nc

> TiruvAymozhi & Bhagavad Gita

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> Dear bhAgavathAs,

> Salutations to all. Continues from where we left off.

>

> (i)"indhriya balam" - AH 189

>

> BG 2.60: yathathO hyapi kaunthEya puruShasya vipashcitha: |

> indhriyANi pramAThIni haranthi prasabham mana: ||

>

> O KaunthEya(Arjuna),the senses are so turbulent and powerful that

> they can lead astray the mind of a person with sound judgement. This

> shows the power of senses that can cause destruction.

>

> NammAzhvAr says the same thing in

>

> "viNNuLAr perumARkku adimai seivAraiyum seRum aimpulan" - TVM 7.1.6

>

> (ii)"mana prAdhAnyam(primary/zgreatness)" - AH 189

>

> BG 6.34: cancalam hi mana: krShNa pramAThi balavadh DhrDam |

> thasyAham nigraham manyE vAyOr iva sudhuShkaram ||

>

> O KrShNa,the flickering/vascillating mind is certainly

> turbulent,strong and obstinate;conquering/controlling the mind is

> more difficult than controlling the wind.

>

> NammAzhvAr says the same in "manaththai valiththu" - TVM 5.1.4

>

> (iii)"karaNa niyamanam" - AH 189

>

> BG 2.61: thAni sarvANi samyamya yuktha AsItha mathpara: |

> vashE hi yasyEndhriyANi thasya praj~nA prathiShTithA ||

>

> He, who keeps all his senses under control,should meditate on Me;in

> such person,whose senses are brought under control,the perfect

> knowledge is established.

>

> NammAzhvAr says the same thing in

>

> "uLLam urai seyal uLLa immUnRaiyum

> uLLik keduththu"

>

> AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

> NC Nappinnai

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 8

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 06:39:43 -0800 (PST)

> Mukund Srinivasan <msmn1

> Indignation at sholingur: Sharing other good experiences

>

> As has been pointed out, there are always unpleasant

> experiences in life and it is all the more so when one

> is on a spiritual quest. I have a suggestion - could

> members post their good experiences on this board so

> that we could enjoy those also.

>

> I will give 2 wonderful experiences that I had last

> year.

>

> 1. Thiruvidavendhai - quiet peaceful shrine of Varaha

> swamy (nityakalyanaswamy) on the road to mamallapuram.

> Hoary shrine but kept neat and clean. No solicitations

> and the priests were respectful and answered all my

> questions without asking for any donations. This does

> not mean that they did not have a pressing need for

> money to survive - they did not ask for it from me

> although it was quite obvious that I had come from

> abroad.

>

> 2. Thirumazhisai - one of my favorite shrines and one

> I had the pleasure of taking my mother to, the 2nd

> time in her life (the first time as a child with her

> father). Quiet,peaceful and the priest was solicitous

> and interested in telling us about the shrine. The

> shrine was clean and there were no crowds. There is

> no chakkratazhwar shrine in the temple as the azhwar

> himself was an amsam of sri sudarshana and the azhwar

> vigraham is framed in the back by the 6 pointed star

> of the discus.

>

> 3. Thiruvellore - beautiful shrine - yes there were

> crowds but the experience was peaceful and the priests

> were not soliciting funds in a crass manner.

>

> In the various occasions that I have visited temples

> back in India, I have come across the good and the bad

> and I find myself dwelling more often on the pleasant

> experiences rather than the unpleasant (quite the

> opposite of the way news is conveyed).

>

> Happy darshans to all

> mukund srinivasan

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 9

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:58:59 -0800 (PST)

> Varadarajan Sourirajan <varadarajan_tcs

> Gaganagiri Muni guru paramparA prabhAvam-6

>

>

> Sri Parthasarathi thunai

> Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

> Sri Vara Vara MunayE Namaha

> Sri VanAchala mahA munayE Namaha

>

> SrisailEsa dayA pAthram deebhakthyAdhi gunArnavam

> Yateendra pravanam vandhE ramya jAmataram munim

>

> RamyajAmatru yOgeendra pAdha rEkhA mayam sadhA

> thathAyathatAthma sadhdhAthim rAmAnuja munim bhajE

>

> HH Sri Vanamamalai ThimmaiyengAr (A) ThiruvEnkata rAmAnuja Jeeyer (fifth

> pattam)

>

> Thirunakshatra thaniyan

>

> "sarvajith uttarAshAdE sApamAsi kruthOthpavam I

> vandhisheeya viyathsaila thimmayAhvaya mahAmunim II

> uttarAshAdapE jAtham shApe vAnAthri yOginam I

> jnAna bhakthyAdhi jalathim thimmayAr yAhvayam srayE II"

>

> Vaibhava thaniyan

>

> "Sreemath vyOma mahAsaila-rAmAnujamunipriyam I

> rAmAnujamunim vandhE jnAnAdhi gunasAgaram II"

>

> vAzhi thirunAmam

>

> seerArum sempadhumath thiruththAlgal vAzhiyE

> sirandhathiruch chOlaiyamar thiruvaraiyum vAzhiyE

> ErArum thirumArpum purinoolum vAzhiyE

> Elangiyamuk kOlkaramum eruthOlum vAzhiyE

> PArArum thamizhmaraiyaip pagarpavalam vAzhiyE

> paimponmudi pallAdu pallAndu vAzhiyE

> ArAmaj soozhmangai kanaiththazhagu kandittOn

> AdharavAl arulmunivan anaiththoozhi vAzhiyE.

>

> Annavayal kundhinagar avadhariththOn vAzhiyE

> Arul thiruvAimozhipillai yadipanivOn vAzhiyE

> Pannukalai vEdAntham payindriduvOn vAzhiyE

> Padhinmarkalai porulanaiththum parindhuraippOn vAzhiyE

> Mannupugazh varamangai vandhudhiththOn vAzhiyE

> VanamAmalai munithAl manamvaippOn vAzhiyE

> Ennaiyum eppavaththinindru eduththalippOn vAzhiyE

> Engal erAmAnusamuni enidhoozhi vAzhiyE.

>

> vAzhi varamangai mAmunivan mAmalarththAl

> vAzhi yavankarunai vAzhvizhigal- vAzhi

> thiruvAimozhippillai seerarulAl mAran

> thiruvAimozhi vuraikkun seer.

>

> Swamy's Kainkaryams

>

> Swamy was involved in srikaryams (service) in deivanAyaka, varamangai

> nAchiyAr sannadhi as per the usual practice of the jeeyers of the

> vanamamalai mutt and also took deep interest in the nithya dadhiyArAdhanam

> (daily ritual-serving of food), ubhayavEdantha kAlashepam and shisya

> abhivriththi (increase in the number of shisyas) and acted according to

> the practice of the earlier acharyas while one day .....

>

> (To be continued)

>

> Alwar EmperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigalE sharaNam

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja dAsee,

> Sumithra Varadarajan

>

>

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> Message: 10

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 04:01:12 -0800 (PST)

> Varadarajan Sourirajan <varadarajan_tcs

> Gaganagiri Muni guru paramparA prabhAvam-7

>

>

> Sri Parthasarathi thunai

> Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

> Sri Vara Vara MunayE Namaha

> Sri VanAchala mahA munayE Namaha

>

> SrisailEsa dayA pAthram deebhakthyAdhi gunArnavam

> Yateendra pravanam vandhE ramya jAmataram munim

>

> RamyajAmatru yOgeendra pAdha rEkhA mayam sadhA

> thathAyathatAthma sadhdhAthim rAmAnuja munim bhajE

>

> HH Sri Vanamamalai ThimmaiyengAr (A) ThiruvEnkata rAmAnuja Jeeyer (fifth

> pattam)

>

> Swamy's Kainkaryams continued

>

> Once swamy visited a place called rAdhApuram (rAjasthAnam) and went to the

> palace of the king. The king welcomed swamy with great pleasure with

> great respect and submitted enormous amount of wealth in the divine feet

> of swamy. Swamy returned back to vanamamalai along with the wealth

> submitted by the king and constructed the kulasekaran thirumandapam (under

> the name of the king) and the dasAvathAra thirumandapam. With the left

> over money swamy then made beautiful ratnAbharams (jewels studded with

> precious stones) and silk clothes to perumal and thayar and also made a

> beautiful gajendrAzhvan.

>

> Then swamy constructed a beautiful mandapam under the name of periya

> vanamamalai jeeyer swamy, azhagiya varadan thirumandapam and stayed there

> considering it to be the gurukulavAsam and remained with due respect

> towards the acharyas.

>

> Swamy made beautiful arrangements for the aranganagarappan sannadhi and

> also made a beautiful rathAkAra dOlai (swing in the form of a ratham) and

> for the purpose of recitation of prabhandhams constructed a thirumandapam

> called rAmAnujan

>

> In Alwar thirunagari, swamy constructed a mutt and consecrated vanamamalai

> perumal deivanAyakan and aranganagarappan and also the first four jeeyers

> of vanamamalai mutt starting from periya vanamamalai jeeyer in archa form

> and appointed a Srivaishnava to take care of the daily thiruvArAdhanam

> (daily rituals) and srikaryams(services) in that mutt and arranged for all

> the rituals to be done without any hindrance.

>

> While swamy remained with kainkaryasri in the above manner, a brahmachAri

> by the name rAmAnujan from vinjamoor in the northern direction came and

> surrendered to the divine feet of his holiness Sri thimmiyengAr swamy and

> stayed in thirunagari and learnt prabhandams and sastrAs. After

> completion of sastras and prabhandams he underwent kalashepams under

> vanamamalai swamy and remained as a calm person of high intelligence and a

> treasure of vairAkhyam.

>

> After 18 years of his tenure as Jeeyer of the vanamamalai mutt Sri

> thimmiyengAr swamy, felt that he has become physically weak and hence

> considering rAmAnujan swamy to be the next eligible jeeyer gave him

> sanyasa and named him as emperumAnAr rAmanuja swamy and submitted all the

> responsibilities of the temple and the mutt to Sri emperumAnAr rAmAnuja

> Jeeyer swamy.

>

> Swamy's charama slokam

>

> ApthE krOdhi samAhvayEcha makarE suklathretheeyAnvithE mAsE bhAskara

> vAsarE sadhabhishaknakshatra yukthE yayow I

> ThraiyanthArththa vishAra nithya niradha srithimmiyengAhvaya: srivaikunta

> makunta vaibhavayudham vAnAthriyOgeeshvara: II

>

> Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharanam

>

> Alwar EmperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigalE sharaNam

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja dAsee,

> Sumithra Varadarajan

>

>

>

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> Message: 11

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:05:21 +0530

> "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar

> Thiruppavai 26

>

> maNivaNNA-AlinilaiyAi

>

>

> The twenty sixth pAsuram of thiruppavai commences with the term 'mAlE

> maNivaNNA'

> and finishes with 'Alin ilayAi'.

>

> The term maNivaNNan refers to saulabhyam. emperumAn being accessible to

> one and all.

> It is the characteristic of the rathnam-maNi.vaNNam is characteristic.

> " maNivaNNA= The person who cannot be determined by us properly, can be

> just pocketed in the end of the saree( mundhAnaiyilE mudindhu, peNgalukku

> adakki AlalAmbadi irukkiRa soulabhyathai sollugirapadiyumAm") . The

> attitude of being easily accessible and permitting himself to be be

> controlled by his devotees.

> maNi is a very precious item. A precious item cannot be accessed easily.

> It is difficult in carrying and so on. maNi is a high value item, but can

> be adorned for people who can adorn it. For those who do not want to use

> it as an ornament, it can be remade and utilised otherwise. It can be

> under one s control totally. Unlimited help can be attained from this

> maNi. Once you see this maNi then one s eyes will not go elsewhere. Such

> is the attraction.

> Thus, being precious, under ones control easily, absolute attraction and

> being as a help for one and all. These are described as attitudes of maNi.

> that is maNi s vaNNam.

> This is attitude is referred to here.

> The Lord is precious. At the same time he is very attractive to the extent

> that we do not set our eyes on anybody/anything else.

> 'manivaNNan' highlights emperumAn's saulabhyam.

>

> 'Alin ilaiyAi' refers to emperumAn's omnipotence. His immense/immeasurable

> strength.

> Why the term 'Alin ilaiyAi'? Having completely devoured the universe in

> His small belly, emprumAn gently sleeps on the 'Alilai'. His

> greatness/omnipotence is stressed here.

>

> The great Lord who is omnipotent is also easily accessible.

>

> "mAle manivAnnA'engiRa idathil saulabhyam sollugiradhu.'Alin ilaiyAi'

> engiRa idathil sarva sakthiyOgam sollugiradhu. adhu mAm engiRathin artham.

> idhu aham engiRAthin artham" ArAyirappadi.

> That is saulabhyam is represented by emperumAn's thiruvadi which is the

> means to attain HIm.

> The omnipotence refers to the Lord who Himself will remove all our

> troubles.

>

> vAnamAmalai padmanAbhan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 12

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:06:52 -0000

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc" <nappinnai_nc

> ANdAL's anya devata worship

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> Dear bhAgavathAs,

> Pranams to all. ANdAL worships kAmadEva in her nAcciyAr

> Tirumozhi. If it were due to aj~nAnam(she possessed the ripened

> bhagavad knowledge at infancy itself),whatis the explanation given by

> pUrvAchAryas? Can anyone post the vyAkhyAnam on it?

>

> Best Regards

> AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

> NC Nappinnai

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 13

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:54:13 -0800 (PST)

> Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr

> Devatantara bhajanam

>

> Dear Fellow Bhagavatas,

> There has been a lively discussion on Devatantara

> bhajana[Devata-God; Antara-Different; Bhajana-worship.

> Eponymous words to Devantara are Bhashantara-Other

> languages; Desantara-Other countries; Namantara-Other

> names; Kalantara-Other times; Vishyantaras-Other

> interests etc.].

> Purvacharyas have not approved. Sri Ramanuja's

> invocation of Devar moovulagum padaikka, Poovil

> naanmuganaip padaitta, Devan oruvarkkallaal,Poovum

> poosanaiyum tagume[errors in citation may be pardoned

> as I am quoting from memory] , while reclaiming Embar,

> sets the guideline clearly and unequivocally.

> People not steeped in Sri Vaishnava traditions would

> be troubled by the apparent ecumenical references in

> Divya Prabandham[Taazh sadiyum neel mudiyum, muniye

> naan mugane, avaa arachchuzh ariyai ayanai aranai

> agatri etc. and the orthodox line in Purvacharya

> vyakhyanas. Neeru sevve idak kaanil nedumaal adiyaar

> endru odum and kariya meni misai veliya neeru siride

> idum, periya kolat tadam kannan, have been interpreted

> as Neeru-anjanam, as against the meaning as ash in

> Tamil literature.

> Is it because of the time gap between Azhwars and

> Acharyas and the consequent changes in dctrinesal

> leanings?

> Pillai Perumal Ayyangar, a 17th or 18th century poet,

> was reputed to be a fervent Veera Vaishnava, but even

> about him Pulavar Puranam says,

> Sivanai nindanai seidavane ena

> Ivanach chirchil il'am saivar esuvaar

> Avan em Maayavan aagattil paadi endru

> Uvandu paadiya paakkalum ulllave

> When we come to Srimad Bhagavad Gita,we have to adopt

> the idiom acceptable to all Hindus. In XI:39-40,

> Arjuna says:

> Vaayuh agnih varunah sasankah

> Prajapatistvam prapitamahascha

> Namo namastestu sahasrakritvah

> Punascha bhooyopi namo namaste

> Namh purastat atha prishthataste

> Namostu te sarvata eva sarva

> Anantaveerya amita vikramastvam

> Sarvam samaapnotshi tatosmsi saravh

> Sri Aurobindo translates the two verses as below:

> "Thou art Yama and Vayu and Agni and Soma and Varuna

> and Prajapati, father of creatures, and the

> great-grandsire. Salutation to thee a thousand times

> over and again and yet again salutation, in front and

> behind and from every side, for thou art each and all

> that is. Infinite in might and immeasurable in

> strength of action and thou pervadest all and art

> everyone."

> To me, this translation appears to be lingustically

> correct[though I see the word sasankhah-moon is

> missed]. I understand from this couple of verses that

> God is omnipresent in everything. It is the

> culmination of the teaching at IX:39-42, which says,

> "Nothing moving or unmoving, animate or inanimate in

> the world can be without Me.I am the seed of all

> existences.There is no numbering or limit to my divine

> Vibhutis; what I have spoken is nothing more than a

> summary . Whatever beautful and glorious you see in

> this world, whatever is mighty and forceful, know to

> be a very splendour, light and energy of Me and born

> of a potent and intense power of my existence. But

> what is the need for a multitude of details of this

> knowldge? Take it thus, that I am here and everywhere,

> I am in all and constitute all; there is nothing else

> than Me, nothing without Me."

> It is possible to take a view that even by worshipping

> a diety other than Sriman Narayana, one is worshipping

> only God. There is a saying connected with

> Narasimhavatara,

> Toonilum iruppaan turumbilum iruppaan

> [He will be even in the pillar; even in a srap]

> There is also a prayer,

> Aakaasaat patitam toyam

> Yathaa gachchati saagaram

> Sarva deva namaskaram

> Kesavam pratigachchati

> [Like all rainwater from the sky going to the ocean,

> so all prayers to any God reach Kesava]

> Though I started with uncompromising adherence to

> "nindra aadippiraan nirka matrai deivam naadudire", I

> have started praying to Vinayaka, Subrahmanya and

> Garbharakshambika of Thirukkarugavur. I feel that this

> can be reconciled to Sri Vaishnava doctrine of

> supremacy of Sriman Narayana.

> I have presented my understanding of the matter for

> consideration.

> Adiyen siriya gnaattan,TCASrinivasaramanujan

>

> =====

> T. C. A Srinivasaramanujan

> Email: tcasr

>

>

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> Message: 14

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:01:22 -0000

> "realvaishnav <danp" <danp

> Andal's reference to Kamadeva

>

> Sri:

>

> Andal did not ask for any kamam, she is only asking

> for Perumal (Sriman Narayana) in that request to Kamadeva.

>

> So since its for the attainment of perumal again, its allowed.

>

> PerumalA adayarthukku in desperation she does that.

> But what gets her perumal finally, is another matter.

>

> Dasan

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 15

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:15:28 -0000

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc" <nappinnai_nc

> Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> Dear Mukunda,

> The question was why should ANdAL go to kAmadEva(not for

> kAmam)in the first place(ab initia)? kAmam-desire and it could be

> anything. In ANdAL's case it's the desire to unite with Him. My

> question is why should she go to other deity instead of NArAyaNa

> Himself? Sri MM says "pinjAy pazhuththALai" about ANdAL. This should

> mean that she was fully aware of what she was seeking. In a related e-

> list somebody had mentioned that both P.B. ANNangarAchAryAr swami and

> Putttur swamy said that "she did this in aj~nAnam". Please clarify

> this.

>

> AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

> NC Nappinnai

>

______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 16

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:40:47 -0800 (PST)

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

> Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

>

> Dear bhAgavatas,

>

> The following is adiyEn's thought and is not based

> on any Acharya's vyakhyanam, so please forgive the

> expression of my agnyAnam.

>

> I will take an example to illustrate my thought. Let's

> say that we have a sick child at home and we know what

> the problem is and exactly which doctor can cure the

> child. Unfortunately, said doctor is not responding to

> our desperate calls for whatever reason (may be he is

> busy, may be he is attending to another more desperate

> case, ...). So what would we do? Do we simply wait for

> the day/time that the doctor becomes available to us or

> do we go to another doctor even though we are not sure

> what he/she can do? I'd guess that we give it a try,

> even if it is only a local voodoo doctor or "pAtti

> vaidhyam".

>

> So, in the case of Andal, I'd venture that She was

> desperate to be with Him and had expressed her desire

> to both her father Periyazhvar as well as the Lord

> Himself. Yet, neither of them have responded to her in

> a fashion that would assure her she would get what she

> seeks. He has not shown Himself to her (we have plenty

> of evidence for this throughout Nacciyar Thirumozhi)

> and Periyazhvar tried to get her maried off to another

> mortal, so much so she had to threaten "mAnidavarkkenRu

> pEccuppadil vAzhakillEn". So, what is she to do? She

> is willing to go to anyone and ask that they take her

> to Him - even if she truly knows that only He can take

> her to Himself. Therefore, she picks on this uncommon

> ritual of worshipping Kamadeva willing to give it a

> shot.

>

> I seek bhAgavatas to correct adiyEn's blabberings.

>

> adiyEn

> TCA Venkatesan

>

> --- "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc"

> <nappinnai_nc wrote:

> > Sri:

> > Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> > Dear Mukunda,

> > The question was why should ANdAL go to

> > kAmadEva(not for

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 17

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:28:52 -0800 (PST)

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

> Re: Devatantara bhajanam

>

> Dear Sri Srinivasaramanujan Swamin (Uncle),

>

> adiyEn's praNams. Please pardon me for stating this,

> but I feel that there is a contradiction within the

> stance you have taken.

>

> If you do feel that Sriman Narayana (God) is within

> all, and you are already woshipping Him in a Vishnu

> temple, then what is the need to go worship Vinayaka

> and other dieties. After all any prayers that you make

> to them, you can make to Narayana and it would reach

> God. I am not saying that you have to go out of your

> way to avoid other dieties, but it seems contradictory

> that you feel compelled to worship them.

>

> Please clarify.

>

> adiyEn

> TCA Venkatesan

>

> --- Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr wrote:

> > Dear Fellow Bhagavatas,

> > It is possible to take a view that even by worshipping

> > a diety other than Sriman Narayana, one is worshipping

> > only God. ...

> > [Like all rainwater from the sky going to the ocean,

> > so all prayers to any God reach Kesava]

> > Though I started with uncompromising adherence to

> > "nindra aadippiraan nirka matrai deivam naadudire", I

> > have started praying to Vinayaka, Subrahmanya and

> > Garbharakshambika of Thirukkarugavur. I feel that this

> > can be reconciled to Sri Vaishnava doctrine of

> > supremacy of Sriman Narayana.

>

>

>

>

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> Message: 18

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:35:21 -0000

> "vaidhehi_nc <nappinnai_nc" <nappinnai_nc

> Re: Devatantara bhajanam

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> Dear Sri TCA Srinivasa Ramanujan,

> Accept my pranams. True that all prayers reach Keshava. Lord

> very clearly says in BG that whoever worships Him in whichever form

> they desire,He appears to them in that particular form. But His

> divine feet is different from those of other gods. That's why He

> points arjuna to fall at His feet.

> Rainwater can not replace the ocean. We are all parts

> representing the whole(Him). A demi-god is also a part of Him. BG IX

> 39-42 shows omnipresence of Him. Offering prayer to the part is not

> the same as offering prayer to the whole. We have to see the

> qualitative and quantitative aspects here. When a person realises

> that "everything reaches keshava",he will only offer worship to that

> keshava. If worshiping other deities was justified,EmperumAnAr and

> our other AchAryAs would have implimented and practised.

>

> AzhvAr EmperumAnAr Jeeyar TiruvadigaLE saraNam

> NC Nappinnai

______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 19

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:48:18 -0000

> "vtca <vtca" <vtca

> Mumukshuppadi - 112

>

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

>

> Sri Pillai Lokacharya's

> Mumukshuppadi

>

> Sutra:

> 112. ivvadimai thAn *ozhivil kAlamellAm udanAy manni*

> enkiRapadiyE SarvathEsa SarvakAla SarvAvaSthaikaLilum

> anuvarththikkum.

>

> Meaning:

> This service will follow continuously at all places, at

> all times and under all conditions, as prayed for by

> Azhvar in "ozhivil kAlamellAm udanAy manni".

>

> Sri PBA Swami's Sarartha Deepikai:

> Here, the fact that there are no limitations in place or

> time to being in His service, is shown.

>

> As per Nammazhvar's prayer (Thiruvaymozhi 3.3.1) "ozhivil

> kAlamellAm udanAy manni vazhuvila adimai seyya vENdum nAm",

> that he gain the performance of service to Him without break,

> at all places, at all times and under all conditions, this

> service will follow continuously.

>

> Pillai Lokacharyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

> Azhvar Emperumanar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam

>

> adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

> TCA Venkatesan

>

> Mumukshuppadi Sarartha Deepikai Series:

> http://www.acharya.org/vyakyanam/mumukshuppadi/index.html

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 20

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:09:07 -0800 (PST)

> Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr

> Correction of Pasuram

>

> Dear fellow Bhagavatas,

> The Embar aitihyam[tradition]- linked Pasuram perhaps

> starts as

> "Devu matru evvulagum padaikka"

> instead of as

> "Devar moovulagum padaikka"

> as quoted by me.

> I may still be wrong as it is rummaged from my

> fading[and aging] memory.

> Adiyen TCASrinivasaramanujan

>

> =====

> T. C. A Srinivasaramanujan

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> Message: 21

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:50:40 -0600

> Pattangi <danp

> Jan 11 to 17: Bhagawad Geetha (Eng), Thiruppavai (Acharya Prama)

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>

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> ______________________

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> Message: 22

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:09:11 -0800

> "Gunaseelan V" <gunav

> RE: Re: Devatantara bhajanam

>

> Sri:

> Adiyen would like to add few of my views in this case..

>

> Adiyen learnt thru Upanyasams that even during Rama's period lot of people

> worshiped Devathantharams but for diff cause, they did it for the welfare

> of

> Rama, they Prayed to All Gods to protect Rama from evil eyes etc, Adiyen

> thinks this is out of premai.

>

> Secondly if you look into the sthala Puranam of Nangoor DD (Thiru Vun

> Purushothaman Koil) ,

>

> One Rishi's son Upamanyu was in dearth of Ksheeram and was told by his

> mother to worship Siva(Pasupathy) to get Milk, because of the penance of

> the

> Kid, Siva Appeared before the Kid and showed him the "Ksheera theertham"

> available near by Thiru Vun Purushothaman Sannidhi and preached the Kid

> about the Lord's Guna's, then the kid did the penance for Him , then comes

> the Archa avatharam of Purushothaman. So on seeing the story we could

> observe that even Siva does the Purushakaram for the devotees.

>

> By any way I dont mean that we should select that path, as we have the

> lineage for the Purushakaram.

>

> Also as we came to know about our PoorvAcharyas commentary that its due to

> Andal's Ajnanam, Adiyen feels that this should not be seen with Logical

> eyes, instead with the eyes of Premai, this may be even comparable to

> Madal

> of our Thirumangai Alwar, as you know Alwar had breached the Tamil culture

> that Nayaki should not do the Madal, even in Peria Thirumadal Alwar

> himself

> says that he is following vadamozhi(sanskrit) culture

>

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

> Guna

>

>

>

> TCA Venkatesan [vtca]

> Friday, January 10, 2003 11:29 AM

> ramanuja

> [ramanuja] Re: Devatantara bhajanam

>

>

> Dear Sri Srinivasaramanujan Swamin (Uncle),

>

> adiyEn's praNams. Please pardon me for stating this,

> but I feel that there is a contradiction within the

> stance you have taken.

>

> If you do feel that Sriman Narayana (God) is within

> all, and you are already woshipping Him in a Vishnu

> temple, then what is the need to go worship Vinayaka

> and other dieties. After all any prayers that you make

> to them, you can make to Narayana and it would reach

> God. I am not saying that you have to go out of your

> way to avoid other dieties, but it seems contradictory

> that you feel compelled to worship them.

>

> Please clarify.

>

> adiyEn

> TCA Venkatesan

>

> --- Srinivasaramanujan TCA <tcasr wrote:

> > Dear Fellow Bhagavatas,

> > It is possible to take a view that even by worshipping

> > a diety other than Sriman Narayana, one is worshipping

> > only God. ...

> > [Like all rainwater from the sky going to the ocean,

> > so all prayers to any God reach Kesava]

> > Though I started with uncompromising adherence to

> > "nindra aadippiraan nirka matrai deivam naadudire", I

> > have started praying to Vinayaka, Subrahmanya and

> > Garbharakshambika of Thirukkarugavur. I feel that this

> > can be reconciled to Sri Vaishnava doctrine of

> > supremacy of Sriman Narayana.

>

>

>

>

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>

> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 23

> Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:48:47 -0800 (PST)

> TCA Venkatesan <vtca

> Re: Andal's reference to Kamadeva

>

> Dear bhAgavatas,

>

> A small clarification in my post about Andal's prayer

> to Kamadeva, particularly in relation to the note on

> devatAntara bhajanam.

>

> Worshipping the other dEvatas can be classified into

> two kinds. One is worshipping them for a very high

> cause, such as His mangaLam as done by Ayodhya-vAsis

> or PirAtti's prayer to the eight directions for

> Sri Rama's welfare. The other is praying for one's

> self or for worldly matters.

>

> The second kind is considered varjanam for Srivaishnavas

> - in fact, praying even to Sriman Narayana for selfish

> or worldly things is prohibited.

>

> If I may be so bold, I would claim that Andal's prayer

> fits the former category. Even though it might appear

> that she was seeking something for herself, the union

> of Bhumi pirAtti with Her consort cannot fit into the

> second category. Nevertheless, perhaps acharyas have

> classified that a prayer to Kamadeva that could not

> succeed (surely Andal knew that only He could grant

> her wish - only the greatness of her longing and love

> could have caused this to happen) has to come under

> agnyAnam.

>

> Please forgive my ramblings and correct them.

>

> adiyEn

> TCA Venkatesan

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

>

>

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