Chanting of the Prabandham? Svami Nammazhvar's words.

[Guest guest]

sri:

 

Humble pranams to all:

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:02:23 +0000

VPS Varadan <vpsv

ramanuja

 

sri:

 

To support the contention contained in the message we should consider

Swami Nammalvar's words "engane sollilum inbam payakkume.'

The literal meaning of the words are

Engane -- In whatever manner

Sollilum -- recited

Inbam -- pleasure, here pleasure to Lord

Payakkume --will result.

 

The meaning is even if we recite the pasurams of Alvars with

imperfection and in coarse sound Lord is pleased to hear the words of

Alvars.

 

(Our Intention should be to the best we can)

 

Dasan

V.P.Srinivasa Varadan.

[Guest guest]

Shrimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Respected All,

Though I agree to this to a certain extent, I still feel that one

must sit under an acharyar and learn these(this acharyar need not be

the same as our samashrayana acharyar). I meant a "pandit" who is

well versed in the Naalayira Divya Prabandam.

 

I quote the following to support the same.

When Shri Bheeshmar completed performing the vaarttha-arcchana with

the Shri Vishnu Sahasranamam to the lord, everyone was happy to hear

that and wanted to recite the same. Sivaperuman and Parvati were

there too. At that point, Parvati asks the following to Shiva:

("Parvathyuvacha")

 

"Kena-upayena laguna vishnor nama sahasrakam |

Patyather Pandithair nithyam srothum icchami aham prabho ||"

- meaning: Is there an easy way to match the result of reciting this

sahasranamam? Only learned pandits could recite this daily. What

about others? I would like to hear the answer for this question.

 

Sivaperuman replies("Ishwarauvacha")

"Shri Rama Rama Ramethi Rame Rame Mano Rame |

Sahasra Naama Dhatthulyam Rama Nama Varanane ||"

- meaning: Just chant "Rama" namam all the time. It is such a

beautiful name that it brings the state of bliss to us.

 

In those days, Women and Kshudras were not supposed to recite

anything of this sort. Now, almost all of us(I hope I could say so)

are in that state. Either we don't know(fully or partially) or we

aren't eligible for that. So, we are no more than the kshudras of the

Maha Bharatha time. And hence, either we must learn from a Learned

Scholar or just stick to a Nama Japam.

 

My point is not to discourage those who may recite the Divya

Prabhandham wrong. But at the same time, if we know that we don't

know something, we should try to learn it from the right person and

till then Nama Japam is the best solution. There is no concept

of "Quick Silver" anywhere. We have to wait till the right time comes

i.e when Perumal decides that he would like to hear the recitations

from us.

 

"Engane Sollinum Inbam Payakkume" is for calling the lord. You can

call him, scold him, praise him. Whatever one may say about him, it

would always bring happiness to those who see it as a praising of the

lord. So, even when Yasodhapratti scolded Shri Krishnan, it sounded

nice to him. That is what is meant by Swami Azhwar's statement.

 

Shri Andal says

"Paasi thoortthu kidandha paar magatku pandorunal

Maasudambil neera vaara MAANAMILA PANDRIYAM" - The mother earth was

under the dust and the sirt and this guy(lord) showed up in the form

of a shamless pig:) to rescue her! - This is what is meant by "Engane

sollinum inbam payakkume".

 

Whether you call him as Kannan or as Kaliman(a muddy dirt), if you

say that with love, he would take up that form and come before you.

So, your words do not matter when calling him, it is only the

intentions that matter(For brahmin, even thinking of killing someone

is considered as a sin, unlike for a kshatriya who can kill a person

on the basis of dharma). So, the intentions really matter. But, this

should be understood in the right context. Azhwar pasurams are the

best way to feel and love the lord. That is why we have the practice

of Prabandha Goshti. If you can't recite i.e if you don't know

correctly, you could listen to it. To me, more than reciting,

listening gives me the feeling of love towards him. When you recite,

the concentration sometimes goes on reciting it right. When you

listen, you just hear and feel it. You are focussed.

 

I hope my point is understood in the right spirit. Kindly forgive me

if I've mentioned anything wrong. Please try to learn everything from

an acharyar(the right one of-course) and till then the nama japam,

which is no less than the same, is the best solution.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim

 

Adiyen RAmanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

 

ramanuja, Pattangi <danp@u...> wrote:

> sri:

>

> Humble pranams to all:

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:02:23 +0000

> VPS Varadan <vpsv@h...>

> ramanuja

>

> sri:

>

> To support the contention contained in the message we should

consider

> Swami Nammalvar's words "engane sollilum inbam payakkume.'

> The literal meaning of the words are

> Engane -- In whatever manner

> Sollilum -- recited

> Inbam -- pleasure, here pleasure to Lord

> Payakkume --will result.

>

> The meaning is even if we recite the pasurams of Alvars with

> imperfection and in coarse sound Lord is pleased to hear the words

of

> Alvars.

>

> (Our Intention should be to the best we can)

>

> Dasan

> V.P.Srinivasa Varadan.

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

 

Dear Sriman Lakshmi Narasimhan,

Accept my pranams. I "hope" I understand your intentions.

But your post made me think about my understanding on the same. The

SVS sloka you quoted, I thought, applies to people(apart from

qualified varNAs) who don't even know samskrt alphabets to read

(pronounciation mistakes will enter),who don't know the language

(ignorant of the meanings and hence perfect anubhava may not be there)

and who do not have time to chant(after all we are living in 21 st

century)even though they know to chant. People falling in such

categories can recite "SrirAma...varAnanE". This applies to me for

sure. I don't know the hidden meanings of SVS although I can

understand superficially(highly dangerous) and although I can chant

with reasonable perfection,I don't chant daily as I conveniently say

I don't have time and hence utter "srirAma...varAnanE".

 

It is similar to the statement of Sri Parasara Bhattar(I

hope it's he who made it):if you can't chant the entire

tiruppAvai,atleast chant siRRam siRukAlE,if you can't chant that

also,atleast think and indulge in ANdAL's anubhavams. Similarly if we

don't know the works of our acaryas,atleast we should think of our

acarayas greatness daily. Thinking of Sri KuraththAzhvan a day is

good for the soul. Our AcAryas had been so lenient and merciful that

they have made our life easier.

 

I am under the impression that nAlAyira dhivya prabandham is

a thesis on love for God and I don't think anybody has said

that "love should/must be loved only this way". Love vibrates with

different modes and it always floods and overflows and there should

never be any fence for it. It is precisely for this reason that

EmperumAnAr did not dare to keep his hands on TiruvAymozhi vyAkhyAnam

into writing. Otherwise lesser brainies would have thought that NDP

had reached the dead end! I presume that my little understanding on

this bears the same understanding expressed by Sri VPS Varadhan

swami. If not I like to be corrected.

 

Not everybody is fortunate to have the right/perfect AcArya

to learn prabandham or other works. First of all where do you draw a

line for "learned" scholar? Who do you think in mind when you say

learned scholars? Jeeyars like Sri HH,or UpanyAsakas like Sri

Velukkudi Krishnan swami(or his father) or some bhAgavathas who had

listened to the discourses given by the first two categories?

Moreover people have their own problems. I, coming from AcArya

puruSha family, can learn from my own father. But he doesn't have a

computer at home and he doesn't like to go to browsing centres,

prefers "proper" letter writing. If it is over the phone he complains

that he is not able to hear my voice clearly. I, being a student, can

not afford to listen to each and every upanyasams plus I stay with

roommates which causes lot of problems wrt phone line. So what do you

want me to do in such cases? Would you advise me that I should drop

the idea of learning about our sampradayam and wait? But the desire

is already induced in me by Him and no one can stop it. It is

because of that desire He also sent some "right" bhAgavathAs like Sri

Parthsarathy Iyengar(I had pained him a lot with so many questions)

and now Sri Vanamamalai padmanabhan who clears my doubts wrt Sri

Vacana BhUShaNam and other works.

 

I had learnt koil tiruvAymozhi and some other azhvars

pasurams from a person who sings prabandham in a raaga based which is

not similar to the usual style of chanting that I have heard in Tiru

allikkENi. Would you say that it is wrong? That bhAgavatha sings so

beautifully(with bhAva) that I also started singing esp "ozhivil

kAlamellAm and kangulum pagalum" in a raaga as I liked this better

than the usual way of chanting. Unless the singer/reciter feels,

he/she can not create that feeling of love towards God in the

audience. BhAva/feeling is more important than chanting/singing

perfectly. I have personally witnessed this wrt carnatic musicians.

 

But surely one thing I agree is that when someone chants

incorrectly,he should not participate in the ghoshti. Otherwise it

will become a chaos. As long as he chants alone and making some

mistakes,that's okay and that also will get rectified over a period

of time. Anyways PerumAL had been listening to some incorrect

renderings of Sri Soundararajan before we all replied. I'm pretty

sure that He would have enjoyed and I'm infinitely confident that

AzhvArs and the Lord will direct him in the right path.

 

Whatever has been said and written is based on my small

experience in life and seek forgiveness if I hurt anyone's feelings.

 

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr JIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai