Chanting of the Prabandham? Svami Nammazhvar's words.

[Guest guest]

sri:

 

Please accept adiyEn's humble pranams:

 

As the question of Brahmin, educated etc to chant SVS came up:

 

ANYONE CAN CHANT Sri VishnuSahasranama as per the Questioner (Yudhistira

and The author (Sri Bheesma), Anyone interested can chant.

THERE IS NO BAR ON THIS.

 

=======================================================

Here is a point to substantiate:

Sri Vishnu Sahasranama starts with the questions being asked by Yudhistira

(a Non-Brahmin) about who is Lord of the Universe, How to do Japam of

Him, etc etc. Answer given is by Sri Bheeshma (Non-Brahmin).

 

Kim Japam Mujjetha JANTUHU (Please read it says JANTU)

 

So this is the question for any Being.

If it was intended only for men etc the qs wouild have been purushaha.

 

There is so much info supporting the fact that anyone can and should take

the lord's name. (and Chant Sri Vishnu Sahasranama)

===================================================

 

Normally Sri Viashnavas are not supposed to talk about the Varnas,

(DO we ever say Lord Rama.. as Non-Brahmin or Sri Kriahna

or Veda Vyasa,)

 

THERE IS NO CASTE BARRIER or GENDER Barrier to chant sri SVS.

 

If there are any pramanas that counter the above point, please let

adiyEN know.

 

adiyEn Ramanuja Dasan

Mukundan V. Pattangi

[Guest guest]

Shrimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Dear Sri Nappinnai:

 

1:

> I don't have time and hence utter "srirAma...varAnanE".

This is a major misconception. Most of us are told to chant the

entire "Srirama... varAnanE", while, this is actually a conversation

between Siva-Parvati. Sivaperuman tells parvati to recite the "Rama"

namam and that is what this statement is. So, the gist is to say

the "Rama" namam but not to recite the entire conversation.

 

2:

> Not everybody is fortunate to have the right/perfect AcArya

> to learn prabandham or other works. First of all where do you draw

> a line for "learned" scholar? Who do you think in mind when you say

> learned scholars?

Learned scholars are those who have been practising the recitation of

the Nalayira Divya Prabandham and who have been teaching others. We

could find 1000s of them in various Divyadesams and other places in

the south India.

 

3:

> Moreover people have their own problems. I, coming from AcArya

> puruSha family, can learn from my own father. But he doesn't have a

> computer at home and he doesn't like to go to browsing centres,

> prefers "proper" letter writing. If it is over the phone he

> complains that he is not able to hear my voice clearly. I, being a

> student, can not afford to listen to each and every upanyasams plus

> I stay with roommates which causes lot of problems wrt phone line.

> So what do you want me to do in such cases? Would you advise me

> that I should drop the idea of learning about our sampradayam and

> wait?

There are always options and we need to seek one. I would say, if one

knows tamil, one can buy the prabandha book and read the same instead

of reciting it wrong. Or, there are hundreds of cassettes released

every month on the nalayira divya prabandha recitations that one

could buy and listen to.

 

4:

>I had learnt koil tiruvAymozhi and some other azhvars

> pasurams from a person who sings prabandham in a raaga based which

> is not similar to the usual style of chanting that I have heard in

> TiruallikkENi. Would you say that it is wrong?

I never commented about the style of recitation. To be honest, the

style that is being practised is wayyyyy different from what Swami

Nadhamunigal devised. The Prabandha Goshti is only for the outside

people and was devised only for the Thiruveedhi Purappadu(I don't

know how to say this in English:). Periya Perumal(Shri Rangam

Moolavar) listens only to the Araiyar Sevai i.e a style of recitation

that is based on what Swami Nadhamunigal devised - a style that

combines a subtle dance by the araiyar swami and a musical

recitation. The araiyar swami has a thalakkattu in his hand and he

maintains the rhythm as he sings the Divya Prabandham. Swami

Nadhamunigal identified different ragams and the thalams for all the

4000 divya prabandhams based on the analysis of the moods and tones

and the context of the prabandhams by the azhwars. Even in Shri

Villiputthur, the prabandha goshti is only outside the Temple. Inside

the temple, it is always the Araiyar Sevai. So, singing the

prabandhams in different ragas, is something that was never

questioned by any one till date, as far as I know.

 

5:

> As long as he chants alone and making some

> mistakes,that's okay and that also will get rectified over a period

> of time. Anyways PerumAL had been listening to some incorrect

> renderings of Sri Soundararajan before we all replied. I'm pretty

> sure that He would have enjoyed and I'm infinitely confident that

> AzhvArs and the Lord will direct him in the right path.

This is what I differ from. I never said lord would not enjoy the

wrong recitations. I only said that we should not be sloppy on this.

If we know for sure we are reciting wrong, we should try to correct

it ASAP - Is all I wanted to say. And my point was that "Engane

sollilnum inbam payakkume" should not be used in this context.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Dear Sriman Lakshmi Narasimhan,

With respect to "srirAma...varAnanE",it doesn't matter

whether I recite the entire two lines/conversation(I'm invoking the

name Srirama thrice) or just say "Srirama" thrice,because Srirama(one

who delights the mind)name is equivalent/comparable(thulyam) to

chanting sahasra nAma. That is the meaning of "Ishvara uvAca". This

is like "prapatti" a short cut rather than the circuitous and arduous

bhakthi yOga. Nobody denies the fact that it will be much more

delightful to the mind when one knows the hidden philosophical

meanings and chants with perfection. Since I have been interacting

with Sri Soundararajan for quite sometime and since(due to the desire

to chant and for the Lord)he wanted to correct himeslf,he threw the

question in the list otherwise he would not have. Your post seemed a

bit negative(discouraging tone)and you had also mentioned that women

and sudras were not supposed to recite anything of this sort(kO

Dharma: sarvaDharmAnAm bhavatha: paramO matha: | kim japan muchyathE

janthur(all beings) janma samsAra banDhanAth ||)and hence I replied.

Hope this clarifies.

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr JIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan,

What if the person can't get hold of

any good cassettes, or has any "Acharyas" beside him, but just yankees and

hispanics?? Should he not chant the prabandham at all?? I guess you make it

sound like a huge transgression!!

Adiyen Dasan

Kidambi Soundararajan.

Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhan wrote:Shrimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

Respected All,

Though I agree to this to a certain extent, I still feel that one

must sit under an acharyar and learn these(this acharyar need not be

the same as our samashrayana acharyar). I meant a "pandit" who is

well versed in the Naalayira Divya Prabandam.

 

I quote the following to support the same.

When Shri Bheeshmar completed performing the vaarttha-arcchana with

the Shri Vishnu Sahasranamam to the lord, everyone was happy to hear

that and wanted to recite the same. Sivaperuman and Parvati were

there too. At that point, Parvati asks the following to Shiva:

("Parvathyuvacha")

 

"Kena-upayena laguna vishnor nama sahasrakam |

Patyather Pandithair nithyam srothum icchami aham prabho ||"

- meaning: Is there an easy way to match the result of reciting this

sahasranamam? Only learned pandits could recite this daily. What

about others? I would like to hear the answer for this question.

 

Sivaperuman replies("Ishwarauvacha")

"Shri Rama Rama Ramethi Rame Rame Mano Rame |

Sahasra Naama Dhatthulyam Rama Nama Varanane ||"

- meaning: Just chant "Rama" namam all the time. It is such a

beautiful name that it brings the state of bliss to us.

 

In those days, Women and Kshudras were not supposed to recite

anything of this sort. Now, almost all of us(I hope I could say so)

are in that state. Either we don't know(fully or partially) or we

aren't eligible for that. So, we are no more than the kshudras of the

Maha Bharatha time. And hence, either we must learn from a Learned

Scholar or just stick to a Nama Japam.

 

My point is not to discourage those who may recite the Divya

Prabhandham wrong. But at the same time, if we know that we don't

know something, we should try to learn it from the right person and

till then Nama Japam is the best solution. There is no concept

of "Quick Silver" anywhere. We have to wait till the right time comes

i.e when Perumal decides that he would like to hear the recitations

from us.

 

"Engane Sollinum Inbam Payakkume" is for calling the lord. You can

call him, scold him, praise him. Whatever one may say about him, it

would always bring happiness to those who see it as a praising of the

lord. So, even when Yasodhapratti scolded Shri Krishnan, it sounded

nice to him. That is what is meant by Swami Azhwar's statement.

 

Shri Andal says

"Paasi thoortthu kidandha paar magatku pandorunal

Maasudambil neera vaara MAANAMILA PANDRIYAM" - The mother earth was

under the dust and the sirt and this guy(lord) showed up in the form

of a shamless pig:) to rescue her! - This is what is meant by "Engane

sollinum inbam payakkume".

 

Whether you call him as Kannan or as Kaliman(a muddy dirt), if you

say that with love, he would take up that form and come before you.

So, your words do not matter when calling him, it is only the

intentions that matter(For brahmin, even thinking of killing someone

is considered as a sin, unlike for a kshatriya who can kill a person

on the basis of dharma). So, the intentions really matter. But, this

should be understood in the right context. Azhwar pasurams are the

best way to feel and love the lord. That is why we have the practice

of Prabandha Goshti. If you can't recite i.e if you don't know

correctly, you could listen to it. To me, more than reciting,

listening gives me the feeling of love towards him. When you recite,

the concentration sometimes goes on reciting it right. When you

listen, you just hear and feel it. You are focussed.

 

I hope my point is understood in the right spirit. Kindly forgive me

if I've mentioned anything wrong. Please try to learn everything from

an acharyar(the right one of-course) and till then the nama japam,

which is no less than the same, is the best solution.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim

 

Adiyen RAmanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

 

ramanuja, Pattangi <danp@u...> wrote:

> sri:

>

> Humble pranams to all:

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:02:23 +0000

> VPS Varadan <vpsv@h...>

> ramanuja

>

> sri:

>

> To support the contention contained in the message we should

consider

> Swami Nammalvar's words "engane sollilum inbam payakkume.'

> The literal meaning of the words are

> Engane -- In whatever manner

> Sollilum -- recited

> Inbam -- pleasure, here pleasure to Lord

> Payakkume --will result.

>

> The meaning is even if we recite the pasurams of Alvars with

> imperfection and in coarse sound Lord is pleased to hear the words

of

> Alvars.

>

> (Our Intention should be to the best we can)

>

> Dasan

> V.P.Srinivasa Varadan.

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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