Guest guest Posted April 13, 2003 Report Share Posted April 13, 2003 Adiyen prapannnas My quandry is whether we should treat the Ramayna as a factual historical document, relating incidents which occured in earthly time, space and causation or as a literary device for expounding Vedantic Truths. "Itahasa puranabhyam vedam upabrahmayet" say Pillai Lokacarya in SVB quoting a well known verse - "the purpose of the Itihasa and Puranas is to expound the teaching of the Veda". Any views on this matter? Adiyen Sri Rama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Srimathe RAmanujaya Namaha In Maamunigal's vyakyanam for this suthram, the following has been mentioned: The shruti gives the primary pramanas for the upasana(karma kandam), upaya(brahma kandam) theories. But, this could be well understood for a brahmin and those who has the access to these and who could understand these. And hence, lokacharyar has taken up the ithihasa- puranas and has explained the same. He takes up the ithihasas i.e the Ramayana and Mahabharatha and goes ahead proving that in Ramayana, the imprisonment of the Sita by ravana explains the gist of the karma kandam and in mahabharata, the very act of Krishna as a messenger explains the brahma kandam. I know I tried to oversimplify what has been told in the above paragraph, but one should note that ramayana is BOTH a factual historical document AND(as opposed to 'OR') a literary device for expounding Vedantic Truths. MY apologies for any mistakes/misinformation. Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan ramanuja, <purohit@b...> wrote: > Adiyen prapannnas > > My quandry is whether we should treat the Ramayna as a factual historical > document, relating incidents which occured in earthly time, space and > causation or as a literary device for expounding Vedantic Truths. > > "Itahasa puranabhyam vedam upabrahmayet" say Pillai Lokacarya in SVB quoting > a well known verse - "the purpose of the Itihasa and Puranas is to expound > the teaching of the Veda". > > Any views on this matter? > > Adiyen > > Sri Rama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 Sorry for one misinformation: Shri Pillai lokachariar swamy has mentioned that the smrithis explain the karma kandam and the ithihasas (BOTH ramayana and mahabharata) explain the brahma kandam. Sarva aparadhaan kshamasva! Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan ramanuja, "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhan@h...> wrote: > Srimathe RAmanujaya Namaha > > In Maamunigal's vyakyanam for this suthram, the following has been > mentioned: > The shruti gives the primary pramanas for the upasana(karma kandam), > upaya(brahma kandam) theories. But, this could be well understood for > a brahmin and those who has the access to these and who could > understand these. And hence, lokacharyar has taken up the ithihasa- > puranas and has explained the same. He takes up the ithihasas i.e the > Ramayana and Mahabharatha and goes ahead proving that in Ramayana, > the imprisonment of the Sita by ravana explains the gist of the karma > kandam and in mahabharata, the very act of Krishna as a messenger > explains the brahma kandam. > > I know I tried to oversimplify what has been told in the above > paragraph, but one should note that ramayana is BOTH a factual > historical document AND(as opposed to 'OR') a literary device for > expounding Vedantic Truths. > > MY apologies for any mistakes/misinformation. > > Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim > > Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, > Lakshmi Narasimhan > > ramanuja, <purohit@b...> wrote: > > Adiyen prapannnas > > > > My quandry is whether we should treat the Ramayna as a factual > historical > > document, relating incidents which occured in earthly time, space > and > > causation or as a literary device for expounding Vedantic Truths. > > > > "Itahasa puranabhyam vedam upabrahmayet" say Pillai Lokacarya in > SVB quoting > > a well known verse - "the purpose of the Itihasa and Puranas is to > expound > > the teaching of the Veda". > > > > Any views on this matter? > > > > Adiyen > > > > Sri Rama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2003 Report Share Posted April 14, 2003 - <purohit <ramanuja> Sunday, April 13, 2003 3:23 AM [ramanuja] Is the Ramayana History? > My quandry is whether we should treat the Ramayna as a factual historical > document, relating incidents which occured in earthly time, space and > causation or as a literary device for expounding Vedantic Truths. > Dear Devotee, According to the tenets of Ramanuja sampradAyam, while both the two different types of scriptural texts, itihAsa and purAna, are used to expound upon the Veda, how we weigh these two in terms of being historically accurate and factual is different. The meaning the very names of these two texts is indication of this. The Sanskrit word 'purAnam' means "ever new", implying that while it may or may not be based on historic evidence, the purAnam is intended to convey a certain message or emotional response to the reader that has relevance irrespective of his/her time or location. Consequently, a certain "poetic license" is allowed the writer for using hyperbole, simile, and a certain "stretching of the truth" in order to convey the moral, philosophical, or devotional message that the he/she wished to convey. It is on this basis that the purAnas have been classified by guna, with sAttva purAnas falling in the same category as srImad bhAgavatham (which some consider to be almost at the level of an itihAsa) or srI VishNu purAnam, rajO guna purAnams being along the lines of Devi mahAtmyam or skAnda purAnam, and linga purAnam, Siva purAnam, and others being tamasic in nature. The purAnas can be likened to the great epics of yore, such as the Illiad, the Odyssey, the Tales of Gilgamish, the Legend of Arthur, and the Song of Roland, all of which are said to have some basis in historical occurences or ancient ideals, but which now stand merely as little more than glorified folk tales intended to convey the magic, mythology, ideals, and of course, courage and valor of days gone past. Contrast this with the term 'itihAsa', which means "it happened like this", implying that the work is intended to be a historical record, an archive of an author who had either witnessed the events, or heard about them and transcribed them such that they could be recorded for posterity. There are only two that are officially recognized among our Vedic texts (traditionally, we do not count srImad bhAgavatham), srI rAmAyanam and srI mahabhAratham. Indeed, in the case of the rAmAyanam, we actually have validation of the text by the lead character Himself, Sri Rama, who confirms that this is actually what happened to his sons, Lava and Kusha, after they narrate the incidents that they had learned from Adikavi Vakmiki. It is to be noted that although there are occassional references to the Divine character of Sri Rama, His brothers, and His Consort, there is virtually nothing to indicate that the story was the creation of Valmiki's fertile imagination or mystical experience; nor for that matter is there anything to indicate that it perhaps took place on some ethereal plane. Suffice it to say, srI rAmAyanam is a human story; a story, as my Teacher puts it so aptly, of God becoming Man so that He could teach humanity how to be human. I hope this helps. adiyEn Ramanuja dAsan Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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