Pancharatra vidhi in elevating a shudra to a brahmana

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

 

Dear Shri bhagavathas,

I had a discussion with a Gaudiya Vaishnav and according to him

there are pancharathra vidhis that enables a shudra to be enabled to

a brahmana. Is this really true?

A corollary of my question is, if some westerner gets interested in

Shri-Vaishnavism and wants to practise our sampradayam, what is our

stance? You have to be "born" as one or is "conversions" acceptable?

Is there a precedence?

 

Warm regards,

KK

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriman Amshuman,

 

I am not aware of any such Pancharatra vidhis. However, I beliee

that caste is not by birth.

 

please assume "v" is there at appropriate places in thsi mail as

there is some key board prob.

 

If a westerner is interested in Sriaishnaism, he can practise it

under the guidance of an Acharya. Being a brAhmaNa is not at all a

prerequisite for beocming a vaishnaa. there are many precedneces in

the history of the sampradAyam.

 

regards

ishnu

 

 

 

ramanuja, "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k> wrote:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

>

> Dear Shri bhagavathas,

> I had a discussion with a Gaudiya Vaishnav and according to him

> there are pancharathra vidhis that enables a shudra to be enabled

to

> a brahmana. Is this really true?

> A corollary of my question is, if some westerner gets interested

in

> Shri-Vaishnavism and wants to practise our sampradayam, what is our

> stance? You have to be "born" as one or is "conversions"

acceptable?

> Is there a precedence?

>

> Warm regards,

> KK

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Dear KK,

This reply tries to address your corollary. If a westener

wants to get into the fold of SV,he first has to undergo samAshrayaNam

(sharaNAgati is also done along with that for TK's but I guess,am not

very sure, VK's do prapatti/sharaNAgati separately). This is the

occasion the AcArya imparts the rahasyam,imprints shankha,chakra and

also the title "adiyen ramanuja dasan" to the disciple. In short,the

disciple gets "ramanuja sambandham" and his salvation is assured.

Strictly speaking,one is not supposed to write "adiyen ramanuja

dasan" without undergoing samAshrayaNam. In the case of a westerner

(or even us)he is supposed to follow the code of conduct(for prapanna

alongwith Ramanuja's instructions) and it is this conduct that makes

one a SV and not by mere signature "adiyen ramanuaja dasan". The

devotees who have undergone the samAshrayaNam can help you better:-)

 

With respect to your first question,I would only like to

quote some incidences from Purvacaryas life. One of Sri YAmunAcAryA's

disciple was a sudra and his name was mARanEri nambi. Although

mARanEri nambi was not privileged to learn vedas,he acquired the same

knowledge(of brahman)through the grace of AcArya. This disciple even

took AcArya's disease called "rAja piLavai", a kind of "spinal

cancer/tumor" as a prasAdham. Sri YAmunAcArya instructed another

disciple Periya nambi to do the last rites for MARanEri nambi

(brahmameda samskaram) instead of handing over his body to his kith

and kin(who think the body as Atma) who do not have any claims on

such a noble soul. So periya nambi(a brahmin) also did the last rites

when mARanEri nambi passed away.

 

EmperumAnAr asked Periya nambi: "isn't this particular act

violate the rules of varNAshrama dharma?" Periya nambi

replied: "Srirama(who performed sAmAnya dharma) did brahmameda

samskaram for Jatayu. In what way I'm superior to Srirama or in what

way mARanEri nambi inferior to Jatayu? Did not Yudhishtira do brahma

meda samskaram for ViDhura?" Initially Yudhishtira had doubts but his

doubts got cleared by sages and rshis.

 

The ego that arises out of one's birth/caste, makes the person

(with so much knowledge) lose naicyam "adiyArkku adiyOm". This should

not only be at the level of thinking but also in practice. That's why

EmperumAnAr(and also Sri NampiLLai),would hold the hands of

MudaliyANdAn(R's nephew and disciple,a brahmaNa)on his way to Kaveri

for morning ablusions and after ablusions,EmperumAnAr would hold the

hands(for support) of his disciple PiLLai uRangA Villi dasan,who was

a sudra. This is cited in AcArya Hrdayam 85. When some people asked

EmperumaNAr "how can a brahmaNa touch a sudra and is it not against

varnAshram dharma?", EmperumAnAr gave the above mentioned reply.

 

PS:All our AcAryas have defended Pancaratra texts.

 

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr JIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Dear KK,

I forgot to add one more important information and it is

about my own ancestor Tirumalai Chakravarthy who was a contemporary

of and one of the 74 simhAsnAdhipathis appointed by EmperumAnAr.

Tirumalai Chakravarthy(brahmana) did the last rites for a dead body

(of a sudra)which was left unattended. If in this modern world we see

people still observing caste differences,we can imagine the scene in

10th-11th century. Society was talking ill of my ancestor but the

Lord Varadarajan/PEraruLALan(He can bestow anything from cheap to the

highest puruShArthams and hence there is no need to worship demi-gods)

of Kanci said "nAttukku pollAn emakku nallAn". From then onwards this

title "nallan" was retained. I am very very very proud of my

ancestor:-)

 

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr JIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai

[Guest guest]

adiyen k.s.sudarsana dasan

i think you can use this information from kalpa sutra, about elevating a

shudra to brahmana that is

"athAtas sAmayAchArikAn dharmAn vyAkhyAsyAmamaha|

dharmajnas samaya pramAnam vEdAscha|

chatvArO varnAha|

brAhmana kshatriya vaisya sUdrAha|.

tEshAm pUrvatah pUrvo janmatha sreyan|"

 

sorry for not explainig this

by......kadambi.s.sudarsanam

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Kadambi S. Sudarsanam,

Could you kindly furnish the exact reference? (My

bet would be Apastambha sutram - probably Grihya

sutram? )

 

Warm Regards,

KK

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Dear KK,

I have heard that pAncarAthra either comes from nAradhIya

samhitha(??) or the nArAyaNIya section of the shAnthi parva(12th

parva)of mahAbhAratha. I do not know about the kapila sUthra quoted

by Sri Kidambi sudarshanam but in the AshvamEdha parva(14th

parva),there is a statement "na bhagavad bhakthO shUdra:" meaning the

devotess of bhagavAn can not be shUdras. If some devotee can post

couple of articles on pAncarAthra(what exactly it says),it will help

many readers.

 

AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai