Sri VaiShNavism and VarNAshrama Dharma

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

 

Humble pranams to you. As I have expressed umpteen number

of times that I am a beginner in our sampradayam,I would love to know

what "exactly is" the stand of SV with respect to varNAshrama Dharma.

I preseme that many devotees of this forum would have had the

opportunity to attend upanyAsams by great upanyAsakas and AcAryAs. It

is my humble request to those devotees to shed light on this subtle

topic. This post is not,in any way,connected/response to people who

have already expressed some views on this. Whatever contents that is

reflected here,has been in my mind for long and hence seek

clarification/answers from the perspective of "anuShTAnam" of SV

sampradAyam. :

 

1. What "exactly" Sri VaiShNavism targets as compared to the shruthi?

 

2. If one goes by EmperumAnAr's SriBhAshya statement on varNAshrama

Dharma,why not follow the same EmperumAnAr who "did not" make "any"

reference to AzhvArs and their works in all his samskrt works? So

should one reject AzhvArs outrightly?[Although AcArya Hrdhayam suthra

65 declares that emperumAnAr wrote Sri BhAShya with the help

of dhivya prabandham only]. SriRangam Sri Narasimhachar swami,on Sri

BhAShya,said that EmperumanAr also has said that women and shUdrAs

are not allowed to learn. If this be the case,why do we see

NammAzhvAr and other AzhvArs wearing yagnyOpavItham in all dhivya

dhEsha sanniDhis? Is this not in direct conflict with Shruthi?

 

I am sure if AzhvArs(4th and 5th varNAs) were baddha jIvatmas,they

would not have worn yagnyOpavItham while they were in this lIla

vibhUthi. If this yagnyOpavItham was adorned by them after they

attained mOksha(after gaining sArUpyam),then are there two shruthis

which are valid,one before attaining mOksha and one after attaining

mOksha? I have heard that when EmperumAnAr was young,he had put the

yagnyOpavItham for some of his friends who belonged to the

unfortunate varNAs. Is this true?

 

3. Every prapanna is a sri VaiShNava. What about the converse? Also

answer keeping in mind Sri PL's words:a person following karma,jnAna

and bhakti mArgas(who enjoy certain things) and those follow(or try

to) prapatti(who shudders to sleep with his own wife) and also Sri

ParAshara Bhattar's statement "an SV is superior to vEdhAnthin".

Sri ParAshara Bhattar,once by mistake addressed his wife as ammA and

the wife thus replied:"swami I am your wife and hence your servant".

sri Bhattar's reply was: "Oh,Did I address you as ammA(may be

perumAL's tiru uLLam)? okay,from now on I will treat you also like a

mother".

 

If we strictly go by Sri PiLLai lOkAcAryA's "code of conduct for

prapanna",how many prapannas would be there in this world?

EmperumAnAr told UyyakkoNdAr that "one has to have a taste for

prapatti which in turn requires PerumAL's anugraham". Does this mean

that SriVaiShNavism,which is built on prapatti,is hard to impliment?

 

4. I am not talking about every brAhmaNA marrying someone outside his

caste! But I'm talking about a Sri VaiShNavan. Can a Sri VaiShNava

(brahmin/non brahmin)guy marry a SV(non brahmin/brahmin)gal? Someone

told me that "it can not be done"(and it was a shock for me because

till this day I have been telling my friends that Ramanuja

sampradAyam is the superset of all sets,encompasses every damn thing

in this Unierse blah blah blah). What is the point of marrying

a "name sake" SV Iyengar brahmin who questions:"why do you need to

know about the sampradAyam & God in detail at this age and also he

(worse than SisupAla) is jealous of attention given to God!)? Is not

zillion times better to marry a non-brahmin person(boy/girl) who

believes in our faith and wants to know about our sampradAyam? I

honestly do not know,how accurately Patricia Mumme presented Swami

Desikan's views in her book. According to the contents of the

book,Swami Desikan was of the view that "there is a distinction

between Brahmin devotee and shUdra devotee;and shudra devotee should

be given respect only as per varNAshrama Dharma".

 

5. I learnt kOil tiruvAymozhi from a bhAgavatha who is a telugu SV

(not a brahmin). I'm a brahmin because my ancestor is a brahmin by

birth/caste. Does Sri sampradAyam/SV-ism say that I(brahmin by

birth/caste or whatever) should give respect to the bhAgavatha(non-

brahmin) only "within" the grounds of varNAshrama Dharma? Are there

any written records that EmperumAnAr(brahmin) did not fall at

Tirukkacci nambi's feet(a shUdra)? This question is raised because I

have read posts claiming that even EmperumAnAr respected a bhAgavatha

as per varNAshrama Dharma only!

 

6. Is not this varNAshrama(that requires individual's effort through

bodily means and which also gives rise to ego) contrary to prapatti

which goes by shEshathvam and pArathanthriyam? This ego follows the

person like a shadow(in 99.999999999% case this is true) and does it

not stand in the way of shEshathvam? Is not SV built on the prapatti?

If so,why there is a need to give importance to varNAshrama,(since it

is difficult to develop "shEshathvam and pArathanthryam" through

karma,jnAna,bhakti mArgams and one in a kOti may succeed)? Please

address this from the stand point of AcArya Hrdhayam(sUthra 57-

62,where Swami Azhagiya maNavALa perumAL nAyanAr declares the

greatness of NammAzhvAr over others viz., vAlmIki,vyAsa,rShis,

yOgis,munis..),Sri Vacana BhUShaNam and Mumukshuppadi.

 

7. There are many foreigners who are getting into the fold of our

sampradAyam by Sri Chinna Jeeyar swami which is contrary to the view

maintained by some people that "in our sampradAyam we don't preach or

spread". The "so called" 74 simhAsanAdhipathis were appointed by

EmperumAnar for this task only.

 

Strictly speaking,if we go by Sri PiLLai lOkAcArya's Mumukshuppadi

(explanation for Carama slOkam),all the mArgams(by shruthi,smrthi

etc) other than prapatti,are "aDharmA" only. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have put forth all the above questions because the main reason is,I

have observed in my extended family circle(who all come under AcArya

puruShA families only! one of my cousin is a disciple of Sai

Baba),that they have different views when it comes to talking about

SV sampradayam and practising it. Their behaviour is somewhat similar

to that of EmperumAnAr's wife towards Sri Tirukkaci Nambi.

 

The second reason is personal. I come from a "double" AcArya puruSha

family(both maternal and paternal) and yet my parents are very very

very liberal in caste issues. My mother was more orthodox than my

father,used to tie only madisAru from day one of her marriage,would

not even eat in some AcArya puruShas houses(they eat onion and garlic

and the reason given is that these have medicinal value) because she

was very specific about food and also would not want to trouble

others unnecessarily. She enforced her orthodoxy only on us and not

on the outsiders.

 

If Sri ParAshara Bhattar was the one who gave importance to the

beggars of SriRangam,then my father also follows the footsteps of Sri

Bhattar. If my mother had not sold her silver articles,my parents

would have fed the beggar in a silver utensil also(right now the

scenario in our house wrt beggar is foodin vAzha ilai and water in

stainless). My parents are alike in thoughts and we have been brought

up in the same atmosphere. My father would wear a "azhukku/dirty"

vEshti at home or even outside sometimes but would give generously

his "mayil kaN vEshti" to guests. Both my parents are weird

characters and I'm indebted to God for making me born to such

parents. Hence I am unable to understand the mentality of the people

(belonging to our sampradAyam) having a totally different view when

it comes to talking and practising Sri VaiShNavism.

 

Kindly address these questions of mine,giving references from AcAryAs

works to elucidate the same so that I would know where exactly our

sampradAyam stands wrt varNAshrama Dharma. Last but not the least,let

us not forget the fact that, in this current age, only 0.000000001%

of the brAhmins(applies to other caste too) would strictly follow the

rules of varNAshrama Dharma. It is my conviction that the one sect

that divided into two is mainly,not because of doctrinal differences,

but due to varNAshrama Dharma. It is my guess that many would not

have liked Ramanuja accepting everybody(I have listened to my own

realatives' words:Ramanuja put nAmam/thirumaN for all passers-by!)

into the fold due to this conflicting views on varNAshrama and hence

would have divided and all these doctrinal differences as a "reason"

would have come much much later say one/two centuries after Sri

MaNavALa mAmunigaL's period. I could be absolutely wrong about this

(since there is no precise reason for the division of sect,it gives

me some freedom to speculate too!) and hence forgive for the same.

 

Please kindly forgive if i,unintentionally, hurt anyone's feelings

and also sorry for the lengthy post(couldn't help it).

 

AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

NC Nappinnai

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

 

Respected Smt Nappinnai,

 

I know learned scholars would reply to all those that you have

raised. I have comments only on two of them (as usual, "you" is a

second person usage)

 

a. If one goes by EmperumAnAr's SriBhAshya statement on varNAshrama

Dharma,why not follow the same EmperumAnAr who "did not" make "any"

reference to AzhvArs and their works in all his samskrt works? So

should one reject AzhvArs outrightly?[Although AcArya Hrdhayam suthra

65 declares that emperumAnAr wrote Sri BhAShya with the help

of dhivya prabandham only]. SriRangam Sri Narasimhachar swami,on Sri

BhAShya,said that EmperumanAr also has said that women and shUdrAs

are not allowed to learn. If this be the case,why do we see

NammAzhvAr and other AzhvArs wearing yagnyOpavItham in all dhivya

dhEsha sanniDhis? Is this not in direct conflict with Shruthi?

I am sure if AzhvArs(4th and 5th varNAs) were baddha jIvatmas,they

would not have worn yagnyOpavItham while they were in this lIla

vibhUthi. If this yagnyOpavItham was adorned by them after they

attained mOksha(after gaining sArUpyam),then are there two shruthis

which are valid,one before attaining mOksha and one after attaining

mOksha? I have heard that when EmperumAnAr was young,he had put the

yagnyOpavItham for some of his friends who belonged to the

unfortunate varNAs. Is this true?

 

- Going by one's work is one thing. Not going by what one has not

written is other. These two are completely different. As per our

tradition we don't learn based on someone's writing. We learn based

on what is taught to us by our acharyas. So, when we quote an

acharya's statement, we say "the acharyar says in Shri Bhashyam", we

don't say "the acharyar wrote in Shri Bhashyam". This might sound

silly, but has utmost importance. By making the latter statement, we

exclude what the "writer" has practised in his life. By making the

former statement, we include what he has told as well has practised.

And hence justification of both are being done. Emperumanar did

cherish azhwar's work and did follow the same and via his Shri

Bhashyam, he justifies the "Eligibility" for mumukshutavam for ANY

VARNA. I have pointed out earlier in my post that, eligibility for

mumukshutvam is not denied based on the varna and this has no

relevance to the varnashrama dharma that talks about the rules for

the body. A brahmin is a brahmin and has attained the body due to

punyas. If he does wrong, again it goes into his account(Varnashrama

dharmam does punish everyone without any bias). What needs to be

understood is that, just because one brahmanan does something wrong,

it doesn't mean he should be disrespected. This is the rule. The

niyamam. Our purvacharyas did not discourage this. If so, then Shri

Ramanujar should have fought with Yadavaprakasar should have

disrespected him for his wrong "kudharkkam" interpretations of the

shruthi vakyas. But, he just questioned him as a disciple, but did

not pursue. He left him without a trace, the reason being,

Yadavaprakasar was a brahmanan and a teacher. Later on YP became a

disciple of Shri Ramanujar.

 

There are 3 views on the varnashrama dharmas(It is left to the reader

to find the appropriate views of the sampradayams from their

acharyan). Those are:

Ramanuja Sampradayam's Premise: For performing prapatti, one does not

need any eligibility. Anyone can perform prapatti.

 

a) The premise does not mean that Varnashrama Dharma should be

discounted. Varnashrama Dharma should be followed and practised. But,

caste Discrimination is condemned. Dehams are unequal for various

varnas, but atma ujjeevanam is irrelevant to that. If a person has

done prapatti, i.e when the atma ujjeevanam has happened, it seems,

it would be very apparent. If it is not, it is only due to the

immense ignorance of the perceiver. All the azhwars, irrespective of

the caste, were considered as Shri Vaishnavas. Why the list was only

12. Why there were not 50 or 100s of people from all the castes? This

is the only question that solves the puzzle. The respect is for the

level of realization. How will one know the level of realization?

Only acharya purushas can. Not everyone can see this. So, even in

other castes, only certain people were considered to be the azhwars,

not everyone of them. This clearly indicates that, the point to

consider, is only the level of realization and not the body, when we

talk about Vaishnavism. So just because we feel a brahmanan is making

a mistake or we feel a shudran is being spiritual, we should not

disrespect the former or the latter. It all depends on WHAT LEVEL WE

ARE, to decide the same, that really matters. I am sure, I don't even

qualify for that task on estimating someone's realization level. So,

until I reach that level, I will try my best to follow, if not all,

at least to my best, of the anushtanams that are PRESCRIBED for my

birth as per varnashrama dharma. This has nothing to do with

disrespecting others.

 

b) The premise means that anyone can do prapatti, so there is no need

for Varnashrama Dharma. If this is the case, Dehams are all equal and

hence every human being is equal(behind the scene this theory refutes

the basic karma theory of our sampradayam). According to what I have

learnt, this is not Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam. This is a major

misconception. Dehams are definitely unequal and are because of the

karma. If dehams are equal and a religious shudra is far better than

a brahmana who drinks, then brahmanas need not wear yagnyopavitham

and do nithya karmas etc. Please note the point clearly. The "far

better than" that I have used is based on the premise "dehams are

equal". But, the same view point would change when we see it from the

spiritual level - "The religious shudra is far better than the

brahmana who drinks". This is at the atma level. These two viewpoints

are different and should not be mixed up. Kindly give me one example

where any of our purvacharyas have been involved in intercaste

marriages. Please provide at the least one authentic example!!!

 

c) Third is the one that you rightly pointed out (as per Mumme):

Though prapatti is common to all there is a DISTINCTION between

Brahmin devotee and shUdra devotee;and shudra devotee should be given

respect only as per varNAshrama Dharma. This one was not swamy

Desikan's view for sure. This was his view until he was corrected by

the lord and he realized the greatness of the Azhwars irrespective of

the caste. This is probably the view of the followers. Or may just be

the perception of others! Whatever! This view is not as per

Varnashrama Dharma at all. Brahmana should be give respect

irrespective of his deeds, due to the deham he has achieved - This is

being grossly misunderstood as, others should be disrespected, which

is definitely wrong. I don't think this is what the Vadakalai

Sampradayam follows. This is how it is wrongly perceived. The

Vadakalai sampradayam and Thenkalai sampradayam differ only in the

prapatti doctrine and not in the Varnashrama Dharmam!

 

 

Sarva Apradhaan Kshamasva|

 

All mistakes, if any, are solely due to my ignorance and I request

the learned scholars to correct my mistakes. I would like to stand

corrected and gain more knowledge towards realizing the ultimate

rather than staying uncorrected to maintain my "false self respect".

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan,

Thank you very much for

your very educative posts. But I have a few questions

for your kind self, kindly pardon me if you find it

hurtful, but I really mean those questions atleast for

my clear understanding.

 

So, what exactly is your point with respect to

Varnashrama Dharma (specifically: casteism) in the

curent day SriVaishnvasim?? Do you say that those who

are born as SriVaishnavas are definitely superior to

those who are not but still practise SriVaishnavism??

 

Given that you stick to the importance of

Varnashrama Dharma, how would you advocate practising

it today?? Do you advise all of us born in the

"Brahmin" families to start leading a "vedic" life

like in the olden days?? May I add that no matter

what, we all belong to the "fourth caste" for the only

reason that we are serving people who are not even

interested in God, but only interested in making more

money??

 

Please put it in plain words so that

less-intelligent people like myself can understand and

appreciate your fine points.

 

Kindly pardon me if I had offended you in anyway.

 

Dasan,

Kidambi Soundararajan.

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

 

Dear Shri Vimal,

 

Here are my answers. "You" is a second person usage as usual and is

general.

 

> So, what exactly is your point with respect to

> Varnashrama Dharma (specifically: casteism) in the

> curent day SriVaishnvasim?? Do you say that those who

> are born as SriVaishnavas are definitely superior to

> those who are not but still practise SriVaishnavism??

 

The "BODY" of one who is born as a brahmana is superior to that of

others as per the shruthi/smruthi/ithihasam. So, even if a brahmana

does something wrong, do not criticize him. Whatever mistakes he does

let him bear it as a consequence in his next births. Shri Vaishnavam

talks about atma ujjeevanam - self realization. And hence, once a

person realizes that, does not talk about the caste. BUT, when it

comes to marriages, it is a better idea to keep the culture in place

by not indulging in inter-caste marriages(our purvacharyas have

maintained this). Whether you are a brahmana and a vaishnava and you

marry a brahmana girl who is not a Vaishnava, it does not matter. A

true Vaishnava can change anyone and everyone.

 

> Given that you stick to the importance of

> Varnashrama Dharma, how would you advocate practising

> it today?? Do you advise all of us born in the

> "Brahmin" families to start leading a "vedic" life

> like in the olden days?? May I add that no matter

> what, we all belong to the "fourth caste" for the only

> reason that we are serving people who are not even

> interested in God, but only interested in making more

> money??

 

If one can practise good old vedic life, that would be great! If one

cannot, be open to accept that it is you who chose to be so. Please

do not propogate that Shrivaishnavam encourages to drop off

Varnashrama Dharmam. If you want to mix up all the castes and creeds,

then please feel free to do so. But kindly don't involve Shri

Vaishnavam into that. That is all my request is. Vaishnavam is

realization. When one attains that, one will not see any caste or

creed. Until one reaches that level it is better to maintain the

basic integrity of the deha-dharmas to the level best possible say by

performing one's nithyakarmas(at the least), prabandha recitations,

maintaining food habits, madi/acharam to the best possible etc.

 

I will stop with this post(moderator - this is a promise:) on this

subject. Kindly talk to the appropriate acharyans to find out more

details.

 

Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jamataram Munim

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

Lakshmi Narasimhan

[Guest guest]

Respected Members,

 

I would attempt to answer some of the questions raised by Smt .Napinnai.

 

1. Wearing of Sacred Thread and learning of Vedas had to be performed by all

the 3 classes as per sastras, and not exclusively by Brahmins. (Only Sudras

and Women were not allowed, reason being they had to serve other members of

the society. )

 

2. When I say this please do not jump to the conclusion and ask why one

should serve other. The best answer to this available in Mumookshapdi,

Thriumantra prakaranam sutram 52, where Swami explains that at any given

point of time, service is enjoyable to one provided he respects and revers

the other.In this way the Brahmins and Kshatriyas and vaisyas earned respect

each other in protecting satyam and dharma. So it was working out good.

 

2.Consider Varnashrama Dharma as like Division of labor during modern

times. In order to efficiently maintain a society with less social

disparities, Varnasrama Dharma was practiced.

 

3. Varnasrama dharma was hailed as the 'most civilized way of running the

society. Swami Desikan hails Sri Rama as 'Nija Varnasrama Dharma' - one who

ruled his land as per 'Varnasrama Dharma'

 

3. Till the advent of Industrial revolution, none of the upper

class(Brahmans and Kshatriyas) misused there position and exploited the next

class. A Brahmin was not supposed to keep for the next day and

Kshatriyas/Vaisyas had to protect his family. Since Brahmin need not worry

about his family's upkeep, he could be devoid of anxiety and Fear and

naturally this resulted in him earning respect in the society.

 

4.Kshatriyas were really committed to protectong there people and

considered sacred to die for there land and people. As per Manu, he was the

human representation of Lord Vishnu (Refer, any old commentary on

Thriuvaimohzi 3rd pattu, "Thriu uday mannari kanil, Thirumalai, kandene

ennum") . Ever since Kshatriyas lost believe in themselves (Due to Turk

aggression) and started becoming avarice (Blame it on British, for buying

these people and conferring them Rao bahadurs and trips to England..), the

whole society crumpled. Once the Rajah , whose is the proctor of these

Dharma, failed, all classes had to fail too.

 

5. Even though Pancaratra agamas talk about, birth based caste system(in

detail),there was no much talk on birth based caste system in Smrthi

vachanams.Pancatra agamas talk about inter caste marriages in detail and

what profession one whould take if the is born out of an inter caste

marriage. This was meant for correct social order.

 

6. No Sri Vaishnava acharya (including Pillai ulakarian) negated these.

 

6.Brahmin bashing had started in India only since 19th century(we can say

from Ramalinga swami, Brathiyar etc), once the all the varnasrama Dharma

failed. (Brahmin being main contributor for its failure). If we read

Thriumangain Mannan , or Appar or Navukkurasar all of them had great respect

for Brahmins of there time. Tholkappier was a Brahmin and most of the

sangam literature was written by these 'Brahmins'. IF you read 'Parimel

azhagar urai' of Thirukural (First known commentary of Thirukural), it was

very supportive of Varnasrama Dharma and brings out clearly what was the

mind of Thriuvalluvar in his kurals.

 

7.Christian missionaries could not convert Hindu masses in India so easily

by talking 'Philosophy's (You better know the reason) to them. Hence they

started writing/talking more about 'exploitation' and 'defects of caste

system' and used as as the selling proposition in harvesting Christian

faith in India.

 

8. Psedo Hindus who have lesser understanding of Smrithis were taken in to

defensive by offensive of these 'Missionaries and try to define new order

for Hindu society which was a confusing and away from the purport of law

givers like Manu.

 

9. If all the varnasrama Dharma is lost, and there is chaos, if there is no

way for exisitng masses for salvation?,

Yes there is a way, says Parasara Maharishi in Sri Vishnu puranam.(also

seconded by Sri VedaVyasa in Srimad Bhagavatam)

Parasra says in Kali yuga(Women, sudras are all sadhus, because just by

serving Lord and chating his names, they can attain salvation). IN the age

of Kali, Nama sankeetanam would result in sidda suddi, which would result in

ananya bhakthi and which in turn results in Saranagati. Lord, naturally had

to give salvation to a surrendered soul.

 

I am not sure if I answered any of your questions. I have simply written

some points which I have heard from Acharyas in India.

 

Dasan

 

Kazhiyur M Narayanan

-

"nappinnai_nc" <nappinnai_nc

<ramanuja>

Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:42 AM

[ramanuja] Sri VaiShNavism and VarNAshrama Dharma

 

 

> Sri:

> Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

>

> Humble pranams to you. As I have expressed umpteen number

> of times that I am a beginner in our sampradayam,I would love to know

> what "exactly is" the stand of SV with respect to varNAshrama Dharma.

> I preseme that many devotees of this forum would have had the

> opportunity to attend upanyAsams by great upanyAsakas and AcAryAs. It

> is my humble request to those devotees to shed light on this subtle

> topic. This post is not,in any way,connected/response to people who

> have already expressed some views on this. Whatever contents that is

> reflected here,has been in my mind for long and hence seek

> clarification/answers from the perspective of "anuShTAnam" of SV

> sampradAyam. :

>

> 1. What "exactly" Sri VaiShNavism targets as compared to the shruthi?

>

> 2. If one goes by EmperumAnAr's SriBhAshya statement on varNAshrama

> Dharma,why not follow the same EmperumAnAr who "did not" make "any"

> reference to AzhvArs and their works in all his samskrt works? So

> should one reject AzhvArs outrightly?[Although AcArya Hrdhayam suthra

> 65 declares that emperumAnAr wrote Sri BhAShya with the help

> of dhivya prabandham only]. SriRangam Sri Narasimhachar swami,on Sri

> BhAShya,said that EmperumanAr also has said that women and shUdrAs

> are not allowed to learn. If this be the case,why do we see

> NammAzhvAr and other AzhvArs wearing yagnyOpavItham in all dhivya

> dhEsha sanniDhis? Is this not in direct conflict with Shruthi?

>

> I am sure if AzhvArs(4th and 5th varNAs) were baddha jIvatmas,they

> would not have worn yagnyOpavItham while they were in this lIla

> vibhUthi. If this yagnyOpavItham was adorned by them after they

> attained mOksha(after gaining sArUpyam),then are there two shruthis

> which are valid,one before attaining mOksha and one after attaining

> mOksha? I have heard that when EmperumAnAr was young,he had put the

> yagnyOpavItham for some of his friends who belonged to the

> unfortunate varNAs. Is this true?

>

> 3. Every prapanna is a sri VaiShNava. What about the converse? Also

> answer keeping in mind Sri PL's words:a person following karma,jnAna

> and bhakti mArgas(who enjoy certain things) and those follow(or try

> to) prapatti(who shudders to sleep with his own wife) and also Sri

> ParAshara Bhattar's statement "an SV is superior to vEdhAnthin".

> Sri ParAshara Bhattar,once by mistake addressed his wife as ammA and

> the wife thus replied:"swami I am your wife and hence your servant".

> sri Bhattar's reply was: "Oh,Did I address you as ammA(may be

> perumAL's tiru uLLam)? okay,from now on I will treat you also like a

> mother".

>

> If we strictly go by Sri PiLLai lOkAcAryA's "code of conduct for

> prapanna",how many prapannas would be there in this world?

> EmperumAnAr told UyyakkoNdAr that "one has to have a taste for

> prapatti which in turn requires PerumAL's anugraham". Does this mean

> that SriVaiShNavism,which is built on prapatti,is hard to impliment?

>

> 4. I am not talking about every brAhmaNA marrying someone outside his

> caste! But I'm talking about a Sri VaiShNavan. Can a Sri VaiShNava

> (brahmin/non brahmin)guy marry a SV(non brahmin/brahmin)gal? Someone

> told me that "it can not be done"(and it was a shock for me because

> till this day I have been telling my friends that Ramanuja

> sampradAyam is the superset of all sets,encompasses every damn thing

> in this Unierse blah blah blah). What is the point of marrying

> a "name sake" SV Iyengar brahmin who questions:"why do you need to

> know about the sampradAyam & God in detail at this age and also he

> (worse than SisupAla) is jealous of attention given to God!)? Is not

> zillion times better to marry a non-brahmin person(boy/girl) who

> believes in our faith and wants to know about our sampradAyam? I

> honestly do not know,how accurately Patricia Mumme presented Swami

> Desikan's views in her book. According to the contents of the

> book,Swami Desikan was of the view that "there is a distinction

> between Brahmin devotee and shUdra devotee;and shudra devotee should

> be given respect only as per varNAshrama Dharma".

>

> 5. I learnt kOil tiruvAymozhi from a bhAgavatha who is a telugu SV

> (not a brahmin). I'm a brahmin because my ancestor is a brahmin by

> birth/caste. Does Sri sampradAyam/SV-ism say that I(brahmin by

> birth/caste or whatever) should give respect to the bhAgavatha(non-

> brahmin) only "within" the grounds of varNAshrama Dharma? Are there

> any written records that EmperumAnAr(brahmin) did not fall at

> Tirukkacci nambi's feet(a shUdra)? This question is raised because I

> have read posts claiming that even EmperumAnAr respected a bhAgavatha

> as per varNAshrama Dharma only!

>

> 6. Is not this varNAshrama(that requires individual's effort through

> bodily means and which also gives rise to ego) contrary to prapatti

> which goes by shEshathvam and pArathanthriyam? This ego follows the

> person like a shadow(in 99.999999999% case this is true) and does it

> not stand in the way of shEshathvam? Is not SV built on the prapatti?

> If so,why there is a need to give importance to varNAshrama,(since it

> is difficult to develop "shEshathvam and pArathanthryam" through

> karma,jnAna,bhakti mArgams and one in a kOti may succeed)? Please

> address this from the stand point of AcArya Hrdhayam(sUthra 57-

> 62,where Swami Azhagiya maNavALa perumAL nAyanAr declares the

> greatness of NammAzhvAr over others viz., vAlmIki,vyAsa,rShis,

> yOgis,munis..),Sri Vacana BhUShaNam and Mumukshuppadi.

>

> 7. There are many foreigners who are getting into the fold of our

> sampradAyam by Sri Chinna Jeeyar swami which is contrary to the view

> maintained by some people that "in our sampradAyam we don't preach or

> spread". The "so called" 74 simhAsanAdhipathis were appointed by

> EmperumAnar for this task only.

>

> Strictly speaking,if we go by Sri PiLLai lOkAcArya's Mumukshuppadi

> (explanation for Carama slOkam),all the mArgams(by shruthi,smrthi

> etc) other than prapatti,are "aDharmA" only. Correct me if I'm wrong.

> I have put forth all the above questions because the main reason is,I

> have observed in my extended family circle(who all come under AcArya

> puruShA families only! one of my cousin is a disciple of Sai

> Baba),that they have different views when it comes to talking about

> SV sampradayam and practising it. Their behaviour is somewhat similar

> to that of EmperumAnAr's wife towards Sri Tirukkaci Nambi.

>

> The second reason is personal. I come from a "double" AcArya puruSha

> family(both maternal and paternal) and yet my parents are very very

> very liberal in caste issues. My mother was more orthodox than my

> father,used to tie only madisAru from day one of her marriage,would

> not even eat in some AcArya puruShas houses(they eat onion and garlic

> and the reason given is that these have medicinal value) because she

> was very specific about food and also would not want to trouble

> others unnecessarily. She enforced her orthodoxy only on us and not

> on the outsiders.

>

> If Sri ParAshara Bhattar was the one who gave importance to the

> beggars of SriRangam,then my father also follows the footsteps of Sri

> Bhattar. If my mother had not sold her silver articles,my parents

> would have fed the beggar in a silver utensil also(right now the

> scenario in our house wrt beggar is foodin vAzha ilai and water in

> stainless). My parents are alike in thoughts and we have been brought

> up in the same atmosphere. My father would wear a "azhukku/dirty"

> vEshti at home or even outside sometimes but would give generously

> his "mayil kaN vEshti" to guests. Both my parents are weird

> characters and I'm indebted to God for making me born to such

> parents. Hence I am unable to understand the mentality of the people

> (belonging to our sampradAyam) having a totally different view when

> it comes to talking and practising Sri VaiShNavism.

>

> Kindly address these questions of mine,giving references from AcAryAs

> works to elucidate the same so that I would know where exactly our

> sampradAyam stands wrt varNAshrama Dharma. Last but not the least,let

> us not forget the fact that, in this current age, only 0.000000001%

> of the brAhmins(applies to other caste too) would strictly follow the

> rules of varNAshrama Dharma. It is my conviction that the one sect

> that divided into two is mainly,not because of doctrinal differences,

> but due to varNAshrama Dharma. It is my guess that many would not

> have liked Ramanuja accepting everybody(I have listened to my own

> realatives' words:Ramanuja put nAmam/thirumaN for all passers-by!)

> into the fold due to this conflicting views on varNAshrama and hence

> would have divided and all these doctrinal differences as a "reason"

> would have come much much later say one/two centuries after Sri

> MaNavALa mAmunigaL's period. I could be absolutely wrong about this

> (since there is no precise reason for the division of sect,it gives

> me some freedom to speculate too!) and hence forgive for the same.

>

> Please kindly forgive if i,unintentionally, hurt anyone's feelings

> and also sorry for the lengthy post(couldn't help it).

>

> AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

> NC Nappinnai

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>