Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: One day Nanjeeyar asked Bhattar "What is the meaning behind the Lord lying in Srirangam in the banks of Chandra Pushkarani?" Bhattar replied "He came to the banks of the river (the avataras) only after His devotees cried for His help. He has come to the banks of Cauvery to save me even before I can ask for help. He is lying here beforehand knowing that I will be near this river. You did not ask for this meaning out of your own volition. Through you, He reminded me of this". AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Dear Sir, vanakkam You mentioned: > Bhattar replied "He came to the banks of the river > (the avataras) only after His devotees cried for His > help. We talk of nirhetuka krupai of the Lord. Then why should the Lord wait for the jeevan to cry for help. Why should be said that he reminded this. If he saves only those jeevans who cry for His help, then, what about his nirhetuka krupai? It is already agreed in brahma sutram that the kartrutvam of jeevan is parayattam. There is no doubt here. But the doubt is only on nirhetuka krupai and the incident that you have reffered. At the same time, you mentioned, > even before I can ask for help. > He is lying here > beforehand knowing that I will be near this river. Then why not the Lord out of nirhetuka krupai save all jeevans. Is he picking up at random a jeevan? If he knows this (as he knows everything), why not this was not applicable in the first case. I have not introduced myself to you all till this time and had been a silent reader. My name is R. Manavalan. R stands for my father's name Ranganathan. We are sishyas of Shree vaanamaamalai madam jeear swamigal. We are not dvijas. I have studied mumukshu padi from my father and got to memory the divya prabandams. Apart from this, I do not have any knowledge other than hearing certain upanyasams in temple etc. I am also member in other shree vaishnava lists. My first posting to this group got rejected as the moderator said that the topic did not appear first in this group. I request the group leader to consider this message. I request learned people to help me by clearing my doubt. nandri & vannakam maamuni das. ramanuja, "vtca" <vtca> wrote: > Sri: > Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: > > One day Nanjeeyar asked Bhattar "What is the meaning > behind the Lord lying in Srirangam in the banks of > Chandra Pushkarani?" > > Bhattar replied "He came to the banks of the river > (the avataras) only after His devotees cried for His > help. He has come to the banks of Cauvery to save me > even before I can ask for help. He is lying here > beforehand knowing that I will be near this river. > You did not ask for this meaning out of your own > volition. Through you, He reminded me of this". > > AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: Dear Sri Manavalan, The logic that most people seem to use with nirhetuka krpa is this: His krpa is offered without any cause. That is, no action of the soul warrants that His krpa flow toward them. Therefore, every soul is equally likely to be a recepient of His grace. The logical leap that is made here, therefore, is - every soul should receive His grace and be taken to Vaikuntam. My understanding of nirhetuka krpa is not this. It is what it is - causeless mercy. That is, He doesn't need a cause to shower His mercy on a soul. But, that doesn't require Him to instantly liberate all souls. If He did, He would have to close down this world. He has obviously decided not to do that and that is His sankalpa. Being sarva svatantra, no one can question why He is doing that. What our acharyas are pointing out is that we can't demand or expect that He grant us moksham because we have performed sharanagati or some other action. Having said that, we are also convinced that His sankalpam is that He will provide us moksham because of acharya sambandham, as promised by Him to Swami Ramanuja. Our conviction arises because He is a satya sankalpa. So, where does His nirhetuka krpa then come in this acharya sambandham? It comes where He directs the soul toward an acharya. This is seen in the fact that not every one born in a Srivaishnava family gains acharya sambandham automatically nor is it denied to those born elsewhere. His nirhetuka krpa flows toward a jIva and that soul is automatically moved toward an acharya. Once might believe that he/she is performing the action to reach an acharya. But consider this: how many things outside our limited control have to fall in place for this to happen. Even if we think we control everything since we were born, our birth was not under control. So, it is naive to think that we caused our sharanagati to happen. In the episode mentioned, the difference that Bhattar is pointing out in the two cases is that, in the case of devas He made them wait till they reached the state of asking for His help. In his case, He is not doing that. Instead, He has made Himself already available where Bhattar is going to be, to save him. By the way, adiyEn knows that people don't like it when I keep repeating this. But the right person to approach regarding such intricate topics as nirhetuka krpa is your acharya. And your family acharya is HH Sri Vanamamalai Jeeyar Swami! So, this is perfect to place before him. adiyEn knows that it is not always easy to approach an acharya due to many factors. But if one truly seeks the answers, then I am not sure how one cannot find the way. adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan --- manavala_mamuni_das <manavala_mamuni_> wrote: > Dear Sir, > vanakkam > You mentioned: > > Bhattar replied "He came to the banks of the river > > (the avataras) only after His devotees cried for His > > help. > > We talk of nirhetuka krupai of the Lord. Then why should > the Lord wait for the jeevan to cry for help. Why should > be said that he reminded this. If he saves only those > jeevans who cry for His help, then, what about his > nirhetuka > krupai? It is already agreed in brahma sutram that the > kartrutvam of jeevan is parayattam. There is no doubt > here. > But the doubt is only on nirhetuka krupai and the > incident > that you have reffered. > At the same time, you mentioned, > > even before I can ask for help. > > He is lying here > > beforehand knowing that I will be near this river. > > Then why not the Lord out of nirhetuka krupai save all > jeevans. Is he picking up at random a jeevan? If he > knows this (as he knows everything), why not this was not > applicable in the first case. > > I have not introduced myself to you all till this time > and > had been a silent reader. My name is R. Manavalan. R > stands > for my father's name Ranganathan. We are sishyas of Shree > vaanamaamalai madam jeear swamigal. We are not dvijas. > I have studied mumukshu padi from my father and got to > memory > the divya prabandams. Apart from this, I do not have any > knowledge other than hearing certain upanyasams in temple > etc. > I am also member in other shree vaishnava lists. My first > posting to > this group got rejected as the moderator > said that the topic did not appear first in this group. I > request the > group leader to consider this message. > > I request learned people to help me by clearing my doubt. > > nandri & vannakam > maamuni das. > ramanuja, "vtca" <vtca> > wrote: > > Sri: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: > > > > One day Nanjeeyar asked Bhattar "What is the meaning > > behind the Lord lying in Srirangam in the banks of > > Chandra Pushkarani?" > > > > Bhattar replied "He came to the banks of the river > > (the avataras) only after His devotees cried for His > > help. He has come to the banks of Cauvery to save me > > even before I can ask for help. He is lying here > > beforehand knowing that I will be near this river. > > You did not ask for this meaning out of your own > > volition. Through you, He reminded me of this". > > > > AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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