Digest Number 646

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Dear Bhagawathas

If we look at the vedic pramana THADVISHNO:PARAMAM PADAM ...........

IT IS CLEAR THAT lORD sREEMANNARAYANA IS THE PARAMATHMA & SUPREME.

aLL the acharyas of different vedanthas conclude the supremacy of vedas&Lord

sreemannarayana. Even narayanopanishad do concludes the same thing.

 

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 ramanuja wrote :

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>azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

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>There are 2 messages in this issue.

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>Topics in this digest:

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> 1. Re: Vedas & Supremacy of Sriman Narayana

> "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k

> 2. Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC

> Pattangi <danp

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>Message: 1

> Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:39:18 -0000

> "amshuman_k" <amshuman_k

>Re: Vedas & Supremacy of Sriman Narayana

>

>

>Dear Bhagavatas,

>Thank you for your replies. Let me try to address certain things and

>I mean no offence to our acharyas and esteemed members.

>

>1. Vedic texts & Sriram's post:

>Sriram beautifully summarized the central issue albeit with a minor

>mistake - that the vedas talk about a "nameless or formless" supreme

>being. Not necessarily and not always. That is a tangential issue

>which we can ignore. The central point is, from vedic texts, we

>cannot objectively examine the contents and conclude

>that "Vishnu/Narayana is the supreme". We need to append Vaishnava

>tantras, azhwar poems and other sectarian puranas to make that claim.

>As Sriram pointed out, if that is not the case, every Vedic scholar

> from Sayana to Bhatta bhaskara to Kapardi swami to Mahidhara would

>have reached the same conclusion. This is ignoring western

>indologists (accused of a hidden agenda?!).

>

>2. Scientists/Azhwar analogy:

>This is a weak analogy. Einstein's theory of relativity or

>photoelectricity may be 'complex' for 'lay persons', not intutively

>making sense or even worse contrary to common sense. However, the

>physicists are unanimous on what the theory is about, what it

>explains, and what are its limitations (if any). We cannot make an

>analogy of theory of relativity & Vedic texts and scientists &

>azhwars. Vedic scholars haven't come to a unanimous conclusion

>that 'Narayana is supreme'.

>

>3. Validity of itihasas & puranas:

>If we allow puranas as a supplementary source of pramANa, shaivas &

>shaktas would point out their respective sectarian puranas as

>pramANa. If we dubiously proclaim that Vaishnava purANas are sattvic

>and hence only they are to be counted as pramANa, we are in trouble

>again. Naradiya purana, a sattvic purana, at the very beginning

>asserts, "He who is Hari is same as Hara, Shiva. There is no

>difference between them". (At least shaiva puranas are consistent in

>that they proclaim Shiva as second to none and supreme :-) to Brahma,

>Vishnu, Indra and other devas). There are other references to Hari-

>Hara identity in 'sattvic' purANas which I didn't bother to catalogue.

>

>To re-iterate, 'Narayana is supreme' is a matter of subjective

>opinion, which is not necessarily wrong. However the claim

>that 'Narayana is supreme and this is attested in the Vedas' can be

>objectively evaluated by examining vedic text themselves.

>

>4. Observation of Indo-Iranian texts - Avesta:

>This is a side issue. The Avestan language is very similar to vedic

>sanskrit and the gathas could be translated from avestan persian to

>sanskrit and vice versa with few simple phonetic rules. Besides, a

>lot of vedic deities reappear in Avesta *including vishnu*. ( we have

>to keep in mind though, that daevas are the bad guys and ahuras are

>the good guys).

>

>ahura mazda - asura medhira=varuNa)

>mithra - mitra

>rashNu - viShNu

>verethraghna - vR^itrahan=indra

>sraosha - sharva=rudra

>vAyu/vAta- vAyu/vata

>ardvi sura anAhitA- sarasvati

>baga - bhaga (as in baghdad!)

>

>It is interesting to note how the Indo-Iranian religion evolved (in a

>different direction) compared to vedic religion. Varuna is the

>supreme God and Rashnu is a minor deity, and is the judge of souls

>seeking entrance into heaven. In Zoroastrian religion the souls of

>the dead must cross the Cinvat Bridge which links heaven and earth.

>That is where Rashnu guards and makes the soul wait three days, while

>he reviews the records in the book of life where good and bad deeds

>have been recorded.

>

>An indirect evidence that 'supremacy of Vishnu' is a later 'purANic

>evolution' and unattested by Vedic canon (or else, among Indo-

>Iranians, Rashnu would have been supreme - not Varuna).

>

>Regards,

>Kasturi Rangan .K

>

>{Moderator's note:

>The "subjectivity" of the assertion that "VishNu is the Supreme Being" is srI.

Anshuman's opinion only. That is not an authoritative opinion taught by our

AchAryAs -

>

>adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan}

>

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>Message: 2

> Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:58:13 -0500

> Pattangi <danp

>Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC

>

>

>Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha

>

>Acharya Celebrations: Nov 1st, 2003 W-DC

>Jeeyar Educational Trust USA, And Vedics Foundation,

>are blessed to announce the celebration of the thirunakshattirams of

>

>MudalAzhvars and Pillai Lokachar Swami

>Swami Sri Manavala Mamunigal (1371 - 1443)

>

>Sri Sri Sri Tridandi Sriman Narayana Ramanuja Chinna Jeeyar Swami's

>on November 1st 2003 at Sri. JETUSA W-DC Center

>

>Register for the conference. Click Here http://ramanuja.cc.uic.edu/

>View participant List

>

>Accomodations, local transportation, prasadams and other needs will be taken

care of by local Volunteers in W-DC.

>This celebration is organized with the following objectives in mind:

Kainkariyam, Kainkariyam & Kainraiyam, together with Other devotees

>Feel free to e-mail us with suggestions, questions Click Here

>

>http://ramanuja.cc.uic.edu/

>

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