Guest guest Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Azhwar thiruvadigale charam emperumanar thiruvadigale charanam jeeyar thiruvadigale charanam appan thiruvadigale charanam In upanyasams by eminent scholars most of us would have heard two words namely prapatti and charanagati being profusely and frequently referred to. Adiyen has a doubt whether they are synonyms meaning one and the same or is there any distinction between the two words? adiyen will be grateful if this doubt is clarified. Adiyen srinivasa dasan ramanuja wrote: azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam ------ There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Re: Legitimacy of other vedic 'deities' claim to be brahman "Mohan Ramanujan" 2. pillai lokacharya!!! sumithra varadarajan 3. krishnapAdasya soonavE!!! sumithra varadarajan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 31 Oct 2003 04:13:11 -0000 "Mohan Ramanujan" Re: Re: Legitimacy of other vedic 'deities' claim to be brahman Dear Sri Kasturi Rangan Thanks for the information on Purusha suktam. I was also going through the translation of Vishnu suktam of Rigveda. I am giving below these two mantras(verses) and respective meaning. Rigveda (1.22) __________ idam vi#351;h#326;ur vichakrame tredh#257; nidadhe padam sam#363;#316;ham asya p#257;msure ||17|| Meaning: Through this Vishnu strode; thrice he placed his foot, and the whole world lay in the dust of his feet. __________ tr#299;nÙi pad#257; vichakrame vi#351;h#326;ur gop#257; ad#257;bhya#293; ato dharm#257;#326;i dh#257;rayan ||18|| Three steps he made, Vishnu the Guardian undeceivable; from there upholding the eternal Laws. __________ I have taken this translation from "SAKSIVC" website www.vedah.com. Well, if we go by this translation, I don't think we will have any doubt regarding Vishnu paratvam. However, I am not sure if translation by others differ from this or not. Can you please comment on this. Regards Adiyen Mohan Ramanujadasan On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 amshuman_k wrote : >Dear Shri Mohan & Shri Lakshmi Narasimhan, > Just a correction - Purusha sUktam appears in shaunakIya atharvaNa >vedam too with minor modifications from Rg reading. It still doesn't >contain uttara anuvAkam appearing in taittriya Aranyakam. It is from >the uttara anuvAkam of taittriya Aranyakam we find that purusha of >Rig Veda being identified with Vishnu/Narayana. Till them Purusha was >supposed to be "primeval" or "cosmic" man. Shathapatha brAhmaNa >features somebody called "purusha nArAyaNa", implying the completed >identification of Rig Vedic purusha with nArAyaNa. Though shri Mohan >doesn't agree with the conclusion that the pUrva anuvAkam, almost >same as Rig vedic reading, is of 'earlier date' and 'uttara anuvAkam' >(new material) is of 'later date', I generally agree with this >observation. This is a separate discussion though. > >Identity of "Virat Purusha" with "vyUha vAsudeva" is pAncharAtric >interpretation of the rig vedic sUkta {vaguely recall that it is from >brahma samhita. Learned scholars can clarify}. Though this in itself >is not for or against the validity of pAncharAtra, we have to keep in >mind regarding to what is interpretation and what is original. > >Regards, >Kasturi Rangan .K > >ramanuja, "Mohan Ramanujan" > wrote: > > Dear Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan, > > > > While my line of thinking regarding Supremacy of Narayana is same >as that of yours, I have a small clarification/doubt regarding >Purusha Suktam. > > > > > > It is true that Purusha Suktam appears in Rig,Yajur & Sama vedas. >However, I have noticed a difference between Rigvedic version and >Yajurvedic version.(I have not read sama vedic version, so I don't >know about it) > > Differences: > > 1)There are only 16 verses in Rigvedic version whereas in >Yajurvedic version, there are 22 verses or so. > > 2) The verses that refer to Hree & Lakshmi is absent in Rigvedic >version whereas it is present in Yajurvedic version. > > > > I believe, there must be some reasons for this difference. (I have >heard in one of the debate that Rigvedic version is original & old >and the additional verses in Yajurveda was addedd later on.---> Well >I don't really believe this). > > > > May I request you & others in the group to throw some light on this. > > > > Regards > > > > Adiyen > > Mohan Ramanujadasan > > > > > > > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 Lakshmi Narasimhan wrote : > > >Dear Kasturi Rangan, > > >Kindly forgive me for pursuing this thread and please feel free to > > >correct me if I am wrong. I've heard that Purusha Suktham is in all > > >the 3 (rik, yajur and sama) vedas. It talks about the manifestation > > >of the Leela Vibhuthi - Material World(starting from 'braahmanosya > > >mukham aaseeth') from a being called Virata Purushan('tasmaat >viraat > > >ajaayatha'). It is stated that the devas performed an yagya called > > >sarva aahuthi('tasmaat yagyaath sarvahutha:') upon which the Virata > > >Purusha was satisfied and he came before them and initiated the >leela > > >vibhuti manifestation. It is also stated that the whole universe > > >(Leela Vibhuti) thus came into existence from his 'Naval'('Naabhya > > >aaseeth anthariksham'). > > >Now, a) who is this Virata Purushan? b) Why weren't the other >deities > > >not able to manifest the leela vibhuthi the way this Virata >Purushan > > >was able to? > > >Answer to a) is, this Virata Purushan is the form that we worship, > > >that we call as Narayana - (in artha panchakam, this Virata >Purushan > > >is the Vyuha Vasudevan?!), reasons being: 1) Both these forms have > > >been known for the lotus coming out of the naval, and this lotus > > >leading to the creation of this universe that we see and live. 2) >The > > >same purusha sukta continues to say that this Virata Purusha is the > > >one who has Hree and Lakshmi as his wives - (hreeshca) Hree and > > >(lakshmishca) Laskhmi are (patnyau) wives (te) to you - (reference > > >http://www.ramanuja.org/purusha/sukta-6.html#6). Per innumerous > > >references from the same vedas, we infer that Narayana aka Vishnu >is > > >the one who has Hree and Lakshmi as his wives. > > >Answer to b) - I don't know. Some learned one could elaborate on >the > > >same. Well, I could only infer that this is the best form of the > > >brahmam(and hence is an equivalent and prime form of the brahmam as > > >revealed to the vedic seers) that "is" capable of the "jagat > > >vyaparam" and as per the brahma sutras, jagat vyaparam is unique to > > >the paramatma. Hence, it is clear without any doubt that this form, > > >Narayana, could be claimed and worshipped as the supreme one, per > > >vedas. > > > > > >There are other statements like 'devAnAm parama:' etc. Why even go >to > > >that, 'tat tvam asi svetha ketho' could be interpreted to mean that > > >svethakethu is the brahmam;). There are innumerous ways to >interpret > > >these statements. Our acharyas had mastered all the vedas and hence > > >they could define the context, usage and hence the appropriate > > >interpretation for the same, unlike us, who try to interpret the > > >same, line by line and hence quote one or two lines from the vedas >to > > >support our view. > > > > > >I haven't heard about any other form being claimed by the Vedas as > > >the one that performs jagat vyaparam. Learned scholars, kindly feel > > >free to correct me. > > > > > >My apologies for my ignorance and mistakes. Absolutely, no offense > > >intended upon anyone. > > > > > >Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaataram Munim > > > > > >Adiyen, > > >Ramanuja Dasan > > > > > > > (b) Legitimacy of other vedic 'deities' claim to be brahman: > > > > If we accept the 'entire shruthi' as pramANa, rudra is mentioned > > > > as 'devAnAm parama:' supreme God in Taittriya Aranyaka and also > > > > termed as pashupathi. Brihaspathi is called brahman!!!!! in > > >numerous > > > > places in the very first khanda of taittriya samhita. This is no > > > > different from another line in nArAyaNopanishad which > > >says 'nArAyaNa > > > > param brahma'. Do you think we have to turn a blind eye to all > > >these > > > > with the escape sequence 'all vedanta acharyas didn't doubt > > > > NarayaNa's paratvam?'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > > > > > > > >Your use of is subject to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > >Your use of is subject to > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:58:37 -0800 (PST) sumithra varadarajan pillai lokacharya!!! Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Sri Vara Vara MunayE Namaha Sri vAnAchala mahA munanE Namaha LOkAchAryAya guravE Krishna pAdhasya soonavE I SamsAra bhOgi sandhashta jeeva jeevAthavE nama: II Avathara stalam: koil/Srirangam Thirunakshatram: krodhana varusham Iyppasi thiruvOnam Kulam: vadamAl Kudi: mudumbai GOthram: Srivatsam (yajus sAkai, Abhathstambhasootram) Other names: vulagAsiriyar, lOgAchAryar. ThiruvAradhana perumal: Srirangarajar Acharyar: Nampillai (did panchasamskaram, taught him the nithyanusandhAnam and also gave him the name pillai lOkacharyar), Vadakku thiruveedhi pillai (taught him thiruvaimozhi eedu and vyakhyanams to other divya prabhandams, Sribhasyam and other granthams) Father: Sri vadakku thiruveedhi pillai Mother: Sri ranganAchiyar Brother: Azhagiya Manavala perumal nayanArAcharyar Shisyas: Azhagiya Manavala perumal, koorakulOthamadAsar nAyanar, thiruvaimozhi pillai,vilAncholai pillai, manalpAkaththu nambiyar, thigazhakkidandhAr annan and others. Rahasya granthams/Works of pillailokacharya: 3 granthas to explain the tattvatrayam, and works to explain the rahasya trayams viz., sriyapathipadi, yAdrichikapadi, parandhapadi, mumukshupadi, thanithirumanthram, thanidvayam, thanicharamaslokam, artha panchakam, archirAdhi, pramEyasEkaram, thatva sEkaram, srivachanabhooshanam, sArasangraham, nAluvArththai, prapannapariththrAnam. PillailokAcharyar thiruvadigalE sharanam Alwar EmperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharanam Adiyen rAmAnuja dAsee Sumithra Varadarajan Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:59:42 -0800 (PST) sumithra varadarajan krishnapAdasya soonavE!!! Sri Parthasarathi thunai Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Sri Vara Vara munayE Namaha Sri Vanachala mahA munayE Namaha “kAnchyAm sarasi hEmApjEjAtham kAsAra yOginam I kalayE ya: sriya: pathyooravim deepamakalpayath II” LOkAchAryAya guravE Krishna pAdhasya soonavE I SamsAra bhOgi sandhashta jeeva jeevAthavE nama: II “vAzhi ulagAsiriyan vAzhiavan mannukulam vAzhi mudumbaiyennum mAnagaram-vAzhi manan soozhindha pErinbham malgumigu nallar enan soozhindirukkum eruppu” “Odhumudumbai ulagAsiriyanarul lEdum maravAdha vemperumAn-needhi vazhuvA sirunalloor mAmaraiyOn pAdham thozhuvArkku vArAthuyar” This is the auspicious day on which the great acharya, whose name itself suggests that he is an acharya to the world “ulagaththukkellam asiriyan-lOkAcharyan” took avathara. Sri Pillai lokacharya is considered to be the avathara of kanchi Devaperumal by the Srivaishnavas. Our acharyas show the greatness of pillai lokacharya as follows: There is a vast difference between the Azhvars and the acharyas. The Azhvars were more involved in their own anubhavams and hence couldn’t reach the common masses so easily. But the acharyas spent their whole lifetime only for the upliftment of dullheaded jeevatmas (“mandhamadhipuvi mAnidhar thangalai vAnil vuyarthidu nAl”). Again among the acharyas there is a vast difference between the acharyas before EmperumAnAr and those who followed him. The acharyas before EmperumAnAr where called as anuvriththi prasannAcharyar (those who selected their shisyas according to qualifications only). But EmperumAnAr and the acharyas who followed him where called as krupA mAthra prasannAcharyar (“AsaiyudaiyOr kellAm AriyargAl koorum endru pEsi varambharuththAr” He broke the previous practice of selecting the shisya by testing his qualification and made the divine rahasyas available to all interested disciples.) Again there is difference among the krupa mAthra prasannacharyars those who left their teachings in written format and those who stopped with just teaching. Again among the works done by the acharyas more credit is given to the acharyas who did vyakhyanams to the Tamil prabhandams (nanjeeyer, nampillai and others) and thereby clarifying the doubts that arise in the Sanskrit vedas. Further credit is given to the acharyas who further simplified and gave the essence of the Sanskrit and Tamil vedas in the form of rahasya granthas (pillai lokacharya, vedantha desikan). But then the ultimate greatness is only to swamy Manavala mAmunikal who further simplified the difficult works of lokacharya and did vyakhyanams to the rahasya granthams. That is why each day we do mangalasasanams for swamy to live long (“Manavala mAmunigalE ennum oru nootrAnduerrum”) Today is also the avathara dhinam of the first of the mudal Azhvars-poigaiAzhvar. This azhvar took avathara in kancheepuram. The first thaniyan on top is poigaiyAzhvar’s thaniyan. He paved path for all the Azhvars to follow him and make the srivaishnava world cherish with their dear possession, the nalayira divya prabhandams. Probably this is the reason why Devadhirajan chose the same day to take avatharam as pillai ulagariyan to spread the message of the vedas and the vedanthas in a short and sweet format as the “ashtAdasa rahasyams”. The divine works of pillai ulagariyan are as follows: Mumukshupadi Tattvatrayam Sri vachana bhooshanam NavaratnamAlai Artha panchakam Navavidha sambhandam sriya:pathi padi yAdruchikapadi parandhapadi thani thirumanthram Thani dvayam Thani charamam ArchirAdhi pramEyasEkaram TattvasEkaram sArasangraham nAlu vArthai prapanna parithrAnam Out of these Mumukshupadi deals with the three rahasyas a mumukshu (one who desires to attain moksha) should know. The book is in the form of aphorisms (sutras). The first sutra reads as follows: “mumukshuvikku ariyavendum rahasyam moondru”. The next book Tattvatrayam deals with the three tattvas accepted by the vishistAdvaita philosophy- chit, achit and Ishwaran. Again this book contains number of sutras in 3 different parts to explain the three tattvas. Sri vachana bhooshanam is the masterpiece. Swamy mAmunikal in his upadesa ratina malai adorns this book as “Ar vachana bhooshanaththin Azh porulellAm arivAr, Aradhu sol nEril anushtippAr, Or oruvar vundAgil aththanai kAn ullamE, ellArkkum andAdhadhanrO adhu” Swamy says that it is very difficult to really understand the inner meanings of the sutras in Srivachana bhooshanam even if one understands the meanings it is very difficult to bring it into practice. If there is someone who can put it into practice then stop the search to find another one like that since it is difficult for everyone to even find one person who practices what is said in srivachanabhooshanam. “Arthapanchakam” explains the 5 essential things all srivaishnavas should know about 1. Our own-self (jeevatma tattvam) 2. paramatma tattvam 3. The way to attain him 4. The ultimate goal 5. the enemy which has prevented us from attaining the goal till now. “ In NavaratnamAlai swamy ulagariyan gives nine great interpretations. The way the saranagathan views 1. himself 2. the body, his first enemy 3. the bodily relations 4. samsarees 5. other devathantharams 6. Srivaishnavas 7. Acharya 8. Piratti 9. Ishvaran. PramEyasEkaram is a collection of what happens to a jeevatma from the first till he attains moksha. SArasangaram shows how the 10 arthas conveyed by the dvaya mahamanthra has been explained by nammazhvar in his thiruvaimozhi’s 10 decades (each paththu gives a meaning) Navavidha sambhandam is a book that gives the nine types of relationships we have with the lord. “pithA cha rakshagas sEshi bhartha jnEyO ramApathi: I svAmyAthArOmamAcha bhOkthA sAthya manoodhitha: II ArchirAdhi is the work, which details the way in which jeevatma proceeds in the archirAdhi mArgam before it attains paramapadam. Prapanna parithrAnam shows how none other than emperuman can be our rakshakan (saviour) always. Thanithirumanthram, Thanidvayam and Thanicharamam are works to explain the importance of the three rahasyas in detail. The ashtAdasa rahasyas of pillai lokacharya covers almost the whole syllabus of an Srivaishnava student (a thorough study of these rahasyas gives us the complete knowledge required). The vyakhyanams of mAmunikal to these rahasya granthams is extraordinary. What else can we expect from that great “vishadha vAk sigAmani”. So on this auspicious day let us all pledge to possess all these divine works and start reading (listening to upanyasams) to lift us higher due to the divine grace of the acharya. Sri Pillai lokacharyar thiruvadigalE sharanam Azhvar EmperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharanam Adiyen rAmAnuja dAsee Sumithra Varadarajan Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears ______________________ ______________________ Your use of is subject to Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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