Guest guest Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 BV Sheela mami Adiyen Narasimhan I am satisfied with your answer for Narasimha Avatar. But the question is whether Piratti was with Sriman Narayanan or not? If she was with him then Her katacham would have fallen on Hiranya Kasibu and he would have been saved. Even Bali did apacharam to Indran and other bbghavathas, but Sriman Narayanan didn't get that much anger and also to avoid the katacham of Piratti, he hide her with a Manthol. Adiyen Dasan Narasimhan Comandur >ramanuja >ramanuja >ramanuja >[ramanuja] Digest Number 718 >17 Jan 2004 09:36:55 -0000 > >There are 4 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Fw: AchArya Hrhdaym 130 > nsp <aazhwar > 2. AchArya Hrhdaym 129 > nsp <aazhwar > 3. Re: Narasimha avatar > "bvsheela" <bvsheela > 4. Narasimha avatar > "Balaji Sundarrajan" <victor_vaas > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:57:01 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >Fw: AchArya Hrhdaym 130 > > > >AchArya Hrdhayam - sUthram 220 Contd. >Second Ten Contd. > >Continuing on the second ten of thiru-voi-mozhi it was noted that the Lord >who is the cause of all the worlds and souls, blessed AzhwAr with knowledge >who desired for mOksham and nithya sUri ghOshti. AzhwAr became crestfallen >on not getting this. The Lord poured His affection on Him which flowed down >to generations of AzhwAr's sambhandhi-s. However, when the Lord tried to >grant salvation, AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it should be for His >sake and not for the sake of AzhwAr and he always requested for His divine >feet, thus underlining the nature of both. Further, It was seen that those >qualities which go to establish the supremacy -parathvam-namely, sagala >pala prathathva, kAraNathva, shEsha sAyithva, sriyapathithva and >saulabhyAdhigaL were seen in the thiru-voi-mozhi-s "thiNNan" and "aNaivadhu >aravaNai". It was also observed that vision by arjunA and an utterance by >shivA was shown as another instance which go to establish the supremacy of >the Lord. The grief associated with this world; the happiness linked with >the mOksham and the yield which is generally final, is right from the >inception stage, is enunciated. >Further, > > >Text: "madhithup perukki, mUgzhi azhundhik, kEzhmai valam sUdhu seidhu, >iLamai kedAmal seiyyum, kshEthra vAsa, sangErthanAnjali, pradhakshaNa >gadhi, chinthanAthyangayukthamAkkugiRAr iraNdAm pathilEa" > >Summary: The obstacles which hinder approaching Him are all mentioned and >the underlying disadvantages are spelt out. The accumulated effecrts >submerge inescapably one into this world. >In Contrast, at a young age, choosing a dhivya-dhEsam as one's abode, >singing hymns in praise of Him, thinking of Him always are indeed soul's >nature and appropriate to the means which is apposite. > >The pAsuram >the key aspects covered in the' kiLar oLi iLami' thiru voi mozhi -2-10 are >covered herein: Accordingly the donts are listed hereunder: > >THE DONT'S >"sadhir iLa madavAr thAzhchiyai madhithu" } >"thiRamudai valathAl thEvinai perukki" } >"valvinai mUzhgi" } >"naragu azhundhi" } > The nature of the obstacles are listed out ; >"kEzhmai seidhu" } > Beware, these are to be avoided. >"valam kazhithu" } >"sUdhenRu kaLavum sUdhum seidhu" } > >THE DO'S > >"mAl irunjOlai sArvadhu sadhiREA"-> It is >good to settle down in this dhivya-dhEsam-azhagar koil. >"pOdhavizh malaiyEa puguvadhu poruLEA"---------------------------> It is >good to enter and settle down here. >"padhiyadhu YEathi"=============================>To apprecaite the >greatness of this dhviya dhEsam; >"thozhak >karudhuvadhEa"-------------------> To >worship; >"valam seidhu nALum maruvudhal vazhakkEa"--------------------> To do >circusmsribe; >"neRi pada adhuvEa ninaivadhu nalamEA"--------------------------> To think >of this as a method of worship. > >All these are a part of worshipping Him is being stressed. > > >Second Ten Concluded: Thus,The Lord who is the creator of one and all >blessed not only Azhwar but also His generations, essayed to grant mOksham >which AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it has to given for His sake and >not for AzhwAr's. The request is always for His thiruvadi. >The qualities which go to establish the supremacy were also discussed. This >was further strengthened by one utterance and a vision. Finally, the brief >associated with this world and the greatness of the path and end is also >emphasised.AzhwAr prescribes the do-s and dont-s for the souls by simple >formula-Go to thirumAl irunjOlai, settle down there, appreciate and worship >that dhivya dhEsam and Him, in this second ten- iraNdAm pathu. > > >(to be continued) >vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:22 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >AchArya Hrhdaym 129 > > >----- > > > >AchArya Hrdhayam - sUthram 220 Contd. >Second Ten Contd. > >Continuing on the second ten of thiru-voi-mozhi it was noted that the Lord >who is the cause of all the worlds and souls, blessed AzhwAr with knowledge >who desired for mOksham and nithya sUri ghOshti. AzhwAr became crestfallen >on not getting this. The Lord poured His affection on Him which flowed down >to generations of AzhwAr's sambhandhi-s. However, when the Lord tried to >grant salvation, AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it should be for His >sake and not for the sake of AzhwAr and He always required His divine feet, >thus underlining the nature of both. Further, It was seen that those >qualities which go to establish the supremacy -parathvam-namely, sagala >pala prathathva, kAraNathva, shEsha sAyithva, sriyapathithva and >saulabhyAdhigaL were seen in the thiru-voi-mozhi-s "thiNNan" and "aNaivadhu >aravaNai". It was also observed that vision by arjunA and an utterance by >shivA was shown as another instance which go to establish the supremacy of >the Lord. >Further, > > >Text: "pulan aindhu enRu samsAr mOksha sAdhana dhukkAndhra rasam munnAga >vidhikkiRa andhar guNobAsathai...." > >Summary: The Text has to be readjusted and read as >"pulan aindhua engiRa samsAra dhukka, mOsha Anandha, sAdhana rasa. >What do these indicate? The samsAra is greif-stricken.It has to be withered >off. The mOksham is full of joy. It has to be desired. The auspicious >qualities of the Lord is very sweet. Unlike other matters where the goal to >be achieved yields fruits finally, the auspicious qualities which is a part >of the prabhannan even before attaining salvation gives immense sweetness. >Hence, the yield foreruns the end, which is a unique aspect in our >srevaishNavic philosophy. Hence, desire to enjoy His auspcious qualities, >prescribes AzhwAr. > >The pAsuram >"pulan aindhu mEAzhum poRi aindhu nEngi, > nalam andham illadhOr nAdhu pugzhuvEr, >alamandhu vEya asuraraich cheRRAn, >pala mundh sEril padimin OvAdhE" thiru-voi-mozhi 2-8-4. > >samsAra-dhukka: The first line of the abovementined thiru-voi-mozhip >pAsuram " pulan aindhu mEzhum poRi aindhum nEngi " directly refers to the >sensory organs which lead to the temporary materialsitic, worldly and >mundane things but ultimate grief. > >mOksha Anandha: The second line of the pAsuram ---> "nalam andham illadhOr >nAdu" directly refers to the everlasting happiness in the mOksham. > >sAdhana rasa munnAga vidhikkiRa:"pala mundhu sEril padimin". > The Lord who vanquished the demons" alamandhu vEya asuraraich cheRRAn" >will remove our hurdles . Hence, approach Him where the means is as sweet >as the end. How can this be? >The end is to attain the LOrd. He is the means .His auspicious qualities >are sweet. These are a forerunner for the end. Hence, get this >sweetness-which is available right from the beginning unlike in other >cases, where happiness is available only at the end----by approaching HIm, >is AzhwAr-s upadhEsam. >(to be continued) >vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:49:21 -0000 > "bvsheela" <bvsheela >Re: Narasimha avatar > >SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama: > >According to our poorvAchAryas, bhAgavatha apachAram is something >which Perumal will never forgive. He may fogive apacharams towards >Himself or Piratti, but never bhAgavatha apacharams. Hiranykashipu's >bhAgavatha apacharam with respect to Prahlada was beyond all limits. >Moreover, even after He appeared in the Pillar that Hiranyakashipu >himself chose, He did not kill him immediately. There was ample time >for Hiranyakashipu to surrender and ask for forgiveness. But the >asura did not surrender. Therefore to put an end to the bhAgavatha >apachAra, He had to take the final step. > >rAmAnuja dAsi > >ramanuja, "Chandra Narasimhan" ><chandra_usa@h...> wrote: > > >.. > > During the Narasimha Avatar, where was Sri Lakshmi Piratti. Was she >not with > > him? How her > > katatcham not fallen on Hiranyakashup? Does Sriman Narayanan >covered her > > here also to avoid > > her katatcham on Hiranyakashyup? > > Can any one highlight on this? > > Adiyen Dasan > > Narasimhan Comandur > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:39:07 -0500 > "Balaji Sundarrajan" <victor_vaas >Narasimha avatar > > Your answer makes more sense. I can compare your answer :(1) >Thirumazhisai alwar encounter > with Easwar , (2) Sri rama,sita encountering with kakasuran > > > >"bvsheela" <bvsheela > >ramanuja > >[ramanuja] Re: Narasimha avatar > >SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama: > > > >According to our poorvAchAryas, bhAgavatha apachAram is something > >which Perumal will never forgive. He may fogive apacharams towards > >Himself or Piratti, but never bhAgavatha apacharams. Hiranykashipu's > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > >------ > Links > > > ramanuja/ > > > ramanuja > >Your > >------ > > _______________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Dear All, I think that for all these avatars, there are metaphysical reasons and we should think beyond bagavatha apacharam etc... If we say that he will not withstand bagavatha apachaaram, then questions will come why the lord did not do anything against kirumi kanda chOzhan because of whom our great koorathalwar had to lose eyes, peria nambi had to lose his life, srimad ramanuja had to run away to melkote. I strongly feel that we should think beyond mere bhakthi angle and analyse metaphysical reasons behind these avatars. We can take clues like 1. only in narasimha avatar and varaha avatar, peria piratti (lakshmi)is directly related and not in any other avatars. Why? 2. References of these avatars are in Veda and Brahmanam. a) "tath hiranyakasibO bavath" says brahmanam. b) "threthaa nithathE patham" says veda for vamana avatar. Vedas were prior to all these avatars as we see the rishis in these avatars are vedic scholars. And hence we cannot simply go by the story alone for these avatars and should go beyond. We can see that these avatar stories (non paripoorna avatars) could have got devised to explain the metaphor of the Vedic concepts. And our Great azhwars knew the great reasoning behind this, they sung in praise of these avatars. Regards, Nanmaaran ramanuja wrote: There are 4 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Fw: AchArya Hrhdaym 130 nsp 2. AchArya Hrhdaym 129 nsp 3. Re: Narasimha avatar "bvsheela" 4. Narasimha avatar "Balaji Sundarrajan" ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:57:01 +0530 nsp Fw: AchArya Hrhdaym 130 AchArya Hrdhayam - sUthram 220 Contd. Second Ten Contd. Continuing on the second ten of thiru-voi-mozhi it was noted that the Lord who is the cause of all the worlds and souls, blessed AzhwAr with knowledge who desired for mOksham and nithya sUri ghOshti. AzhwAr became crestfallen on not getting this. The Lord poured His affection on Him which flowed down to generations of AzhwAr's sambhandhi-s. However, when the Lord tried to grant salvation, AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it should be for His sake and not for the sake of AzhwAr and he always requested for His divine feet, thus underlining the nature of both. Further, It was seen that those qualities which go to establish the supremacy -parathvam-namely, sagala pala prathathva, kAraNathva, shEsha sAyithva, sriyapathithva and saulabhyAdhigaL were seen in the thiru-voi-mozhi-s "thiNNan" and "aNaivadhu aravaNai". It was also observed that vision by arjunA and an utterance by shivA was shown as another instance which go to establish the supremacy of the Lord. The grief associated with this world; the happiness linked with the mOksham and the yield which is generally final, is right from the inception stage, is enunciated. Further, Text: "madhithup perukki, mUgzhi azhundhik, kEzhmai valam sUdhu seidhu, iLamai kedAmal seiyyum, kshEthra vAsa, sangErthanAnjali, pradhakshaNa gadhi, chinthanAthyangayukthamAkkugiRAr iraNdAm pathilEa" Summary: The obstacles which hinder approaching Him are all mentioned and the underlying disadvantages are spelt out. The accumulated effecrts submerge inescapably one into this world. In Contrast, at a young age, choosing a dhivya-dhEsam as one's abode, singing hymns in praise of Him, thinking of Him always are indeed soul's nature and appropriate to the means which is apposite. The pAsuram the key aspects covered in the' kiLar oLi iLami' thiru voi mozhi -2-10 are covered herein: Accordingly the donts are listed hereunder: THE DONT'S "sadhir iLa madavAr thAzhchiyai madhithu" } "thiRamudai valathAl thEvinai perukki" } "valvinai mUzhgi" } "naragu azhundhi" } The nature of the obstacles are listed out ; "kEzhmai seidhu" } Beware, these are to be avoided. "valam kazhithu" } "sUdhenRu kaLavum sUdhum seidhu" } THE DO'S "mAl irunjOlai sArvadhu sadhiREA"-> It is good to settle down in this dhivya-dhEsam-azhagar koil. "pOdhavizh malaiyEa puguvadhu poruLEA"---------------------------> It is good to enter and settle down here. "padhiyadhu YEathi"=============================>To apprecaite the greatness of this dhviya dhEsam; "thozhak karudhuvadhEa"-------------------> To worship; "valam seidhu nALum maruvudhal vazhakkEa"--------------------> To do circusmsribe; "neRi pada adhuvEa ninaivadhu nalamEA"--------------------------> To think of this as a method of worship. All these are a part of worshipping Him is being stressed. Second Ten Concluded: Thus,The Lord who is the creator of one and all blessed not only Azhwar but also His generations, essayed to grant mOksham which AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it has to given for His sake and not for AzhwAr's. The request is always for His thiruvadi. The qualities which go to establish the supremacy were also discussed. This was further strengthened by one utterance and a vision. Finally, the brief associated with this world and the greatness of the path and end is also emphasised.AzhwAr prescribes the do-s and dont-s for the souls by simple formula-Go to thirumAl irunjOlai, settle down there, appreciate and worship that dhivya dhEsam and Him, in this second ten- iraNdAm pathu. (to be continued) vanamamalai padmanabhan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:41:22 +0530 nsp AchArya Hrhdaym 129 ----- AchArya Hrdhayam - sUthram 220 Contd. Second Ten Contd. Continuing on the second ten of thiru-voi-mozhi it was noted that the Lord who is the cause of all the worlds and souls, blessed AzhwAr with knowledge who desired for mOksham and nithya sUri ghOshti. AzhwAr became crestfallen on not getting this. The Lord poured His affection on Him which flowed down to generations of AzhwAr's sambhandhi-s. However, when the Lord tried to grant salvation, AzhwAr rejected on the grounds that it should be for His sake and not for the sake of AzhwAr and He always required His divine feet, thus underlining the nature of both. Further, It was seen that those qualities which go to establish the supremacy -parathvam-namely, sagala pala prathathva, kAraNathva, shEsha sAyithva, sriyapathithva and saulabhyAdhigaL were seen in the thiru-voi-mozhi-s "thiNNan" and "aNaivadhu aravaNai". It was also observed that vision by arjunA and an utterance by shivA was shown as another instance which go to establish the supremacy of the Lord. Further, Text: "pulan aindhu enRu samsAr mOksha sAdhana dhukkAndhra rasam munnAga vidhikkiRa andhar guNobAsathai...." Summary: The Text has to be readjusted and read as "pulan aindhua engiRa samsAra dhukka, mOsha Anandha, sAdhana rasa. What do these indicate? The samsAra is greif-stricken.It has to be withered off. The mOksham is full of joy. It has to be desired. The auspicious qualities of the Lord is very sweet. Unlike other matters where the goal to be achieved yields fruits finally, the auspicious qualities which is a part of the prabhannan even before attaining salvation gives immense sweetness. Hence, the yield foreruns the end, which is a unique aspect in our srevaishNavic philosophy. Hence, desire to enjoy His auspcious qualities, prescribes AzhwAr. The pAsuram "pulan aindhu mEAzhum poRi aindhu nEngi, nalam andham illadhOr nAdhu pugzhuvEr, alamandhu vEya asuraraich cheRRAn, pala mundh sEril padimin OvAdhE" thiru-voi-mozhi 2-8-4. samsAra-dhukka: The first line of the abovementined thiru-voi-mozhip pAsuram " pulan aindhu mEzhum poRi aindhum nEngi " directly refers to the sensory organs which lead to the temporary materialsitic, worldly and mundane things but ultimate grief. mOksha Anandha: The second line of the pAsuram ---> "nalam andham illadhOr nAdu" directly refers to the everlasting happiness in the mOksham. sAdhana rasa munnAga vidhikkiRa:"pala mundhu sEril padimin". The Lord who vanquished the demons" alamandhu vEya asuraraich cheRRAn" will remove our hurdles . Hence, approach Him where the means is as sweet as the end. How can this be? The end is to attain the LOrd. He is the means .His auspicious qualities are sweet. These are a forerunner for the end. Hence, get this sweetness-which is available right from the beginning unlike in other cases, where happiness is available only at the end----by approaching HIm, is AzhwAr-s upadhEsam. (to be continued) vanamamalai padmanabhan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:49:21 -0000 "bvsheela" Re: Narasimha avatar SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama: According to our poorvAchAryas, bhAgavatha apachAram is something which Perumal will never forgive. He may fogive apacharams towards Himself or Piratti, but never bhAgavatha apacharams. Hiranykashipu's bhAgavatha apacharam with respect to Prahlada was beyond all limits. Moreover, even after He appeared in the Pillar that Hiranyakashipu himself chose, He did not kill him immediately. There was ample time for Hiranyakashipu to surrender and ask for forgiveness. But the asura did not surrender. Therefore to put an end to the bhAgavatha apachAra, He had to take the final step. rAmAnuja dAsi ramanuja, "Chandra Narasimhan" wrote: > ... > During the Narasimha Avatar, where was Sri Lakshmi Piratti. Was she not with > him? How her > katatcham not fallen on Hiranyakashup? Does Sriman Narayanan covered her > here also to avoid > her katatcham on Hiranyakashyup? > Can any one highlight on this? > Adiyen Dasan > Narasimhan Comandur ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:39:07 -0500 "Balaji Sundarrajan" Narasimha avatar Your answer makes more sense. I can compare your answer :(1) Thirumazhisai alwar encounter with Easwar , (2) Sri rama,sita encountering with kakasuran >"bvsheela" >ramanuja >[ramanuja] Re: Narasimha avatar >SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama: > >According to our poorvAchAryas, bhAgavatha apachAram is something >which Perumal will never forgive. He may fogive apacharams towards >Himself or Piratti, but never bhAgavatha apacharams. Hiranykashipu's ______________________ ______________________ azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam ------ ramanuja/ ramanuja Your ------ Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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