Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 SrimathE rAmAnujaya Namaha Dear Bhagavatas, Buddha avataram is surely a avatharam of perumal but it has been disregarded by our acharyas (refer Sri Parasara bhattar's bhagavat guna darpanam-commentary to Vishnu sahasranAma bhAsyam) since that avatharam was mainly done to side track the evil people who did all wrong things with the help of the vedas. In Vishnu sahasranAmam the thirunAmas from 787-810 (durArihA to mahAkartha:) talk about buddhAvatara only. This buddha avathara is quite different from goutama buddha who is the founder of Buddism. Balarama avatara ofcourse is among the 10 avataras without any doubt and that has been very clearly stated by the azhvars as already shown by Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan and Sri Padmanabhan. Alwar emperumAnAr Jeeyer thiruvadigalE sharaNam Adiyen ramanuja dAsee Sumithra Varadarajan - Lakshmi Narasimhan ramanuja Friday, February 13, 2004 1:50 AM [ramanuja] Re: Dasa Avatara Asmad Gurubhyo Namaha Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Shriman Soundararajan, I am sharing what I know on this subject. I apologize in case of mistakes. Some avathaaraas are not much glorified by Azhwars. Those are Matsya, Koorma, Parasurama, Balarama and Kalki. Periyazhwar did summarize all these dasaavataras though: "Thenudaya meenamaai, aamayaai, enamaai, ariyaai, kuralaai, moondruruviraamanaai, kannanaai, kalkiyai mudippan kovil..." Parasurama has been in fact depicted as an angry person from whom Shri Rama grabbed the Dhanus and along with it his anger & thapas. As Parasurama and Balarama are more of aavesa avathaarams, they aren't glorified to much extent. But there are references to these in quite a few pasurams of azhwars. Choodikkoduttha chudarkkodi says, "Baladevarkkor keezhkkandrai", "semporkazhal adi selva baladeva" etc. Thiru Arangatthamudhanaar (author of Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi) says: "Kokkula mannarai moovezhukaal, orr koor mazhuvaal, pokkiya devanai pottrum punidhan" i.e Ramanuja worshipped that lord who destroyed 21 generations of the kshatriyas with a sharp axe - Parasurama. Regarding buddha, few of our scholars say that it was Shriman Narayana who came as him to spread the naasthika matham to maintain a balance. I am not sure whether this is authentic. Even if this is true, it is definitely not a part of the 10 avataarams. It would be more of a side track like Hayagreeva, Hamsa avataarams. I am sure other learned scholars might come up with more information. Sarva aparaadhaan kshamasva Azhwaar Emperumaanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam adiyen, Ramanuja Dasan ramanuja, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan> wrote: > Sri: > > Respected SriVaishnavAs, > > Many fora, many discussions on this topic. I want to encapsulate them all in a single mail. According to Sri Vaishnavism, the 10 AvatArAs of Lord Sriman Narayana are: > > 1) Matsya > 2) kUrma > 3) VarAhA > 4) Nrsimha > 5) vAmanA > 6) parasurAmA > 7) rAmA > 8) balarAmA > 9) KrSnA > 10) KalkI. > > Has balarAmA been glorified by the AzhwArs or the AzAryAs?? > > And one more, the poet Jayadeva calls Buddha as an avataara, but our AzhwArs tear Buddha and his philosophy to pieces. Is the Buddha referred by JayadeEvA the same as "Adhi Buddha" or does Jayadeva glorify Gautama Buddha himself?? And what is the stand of our Sampradayam with respect to Buddha?? > > Dasan, > Kidambi Soundararajan. > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Links ramanuja/ b.. ramanuja c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Sri: Respected SriVaishnavAs, Many fora, many discussions on this topic. I want to encapsulate them all in a single mail. According to Sri Vaishnavism, the 10 AvatArAs of Lord Sriman Narayana are: 1) Matsya 2) kUrma 3) VarAhA 4) Nrsimha 5) vAmanA 6) parasurAmA 7) rAmA 8) balarAmA 9) KrSnA 10) KalkI. Has balarAmA been glorified by the AzhwArs or the AzAryAs?? And one more, the poet Jayadeva calls Buddha as an avataara, but our AzhwArs tear Buddha and his philosophy to pieces. Is the Buddha referred by JayadeEvA the same as "Adhi Buddha" or does Jayadeva glorify Gautama Buddha himself?? And what is the stand of our Sampradayam with respect to Buddha?? Dasan, Kidambi Soundararajan. Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: Dear Soundar, As per AcArya Hrdayam,Buddha is one avatAram. I can't quote the sutra off-handedly like Sri Padmanabhan. I can refer and tell you tomorrow. Balarama is not an avatAram for us(among the 10),if I'm right! Even in Srimad bhAgavatham,buddha is mentioned as one among the ten incarnations. I don't know what remarks Sri Jayadeva passed. AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam NC Nappinnai ramanuja, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan> wrote: > Sri: > > Respected SriVaishnavAs, > > Many fora, many discussions on this topic. I want to encapsulate them all in a single mail. According to Sri Vaishnavism, the 10 AvatArAs of Lord Sriman Narayana are: > > 1) Matsya > 2) kUrma > 3) VarAhA > 4) Nrsimha > 5) vAmanA > 6) parasurAmA > 7) rAmA > 8) balarAmA > 9) KrSnA > 10) KalkI. > > Has balarAmA been glorified by the AzhwArs or the AzAryAs?? > > And one more, the poet Jayadeva calls Buddha as an avataara, but our AzhwArs tear Buddha and his philosophy to pieces. Is the Buddha referred by JayadeEvA the same as "Adhi Buddha" or does Jayadeva glorify Gautama Buddha himself?? And what is the stand of our Sampradayam with respect to Buddha?? > > Dasan, > Kidambi Soundararajan. > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Asmad Gurubhyo Namaha Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Shriman Soundararajan, I am sharing what I know on this subject. I apologize in case of mistakes. Some avathaaraas are not much glorified by Azhwars. Those are Matsya, Koorma, Parasurama, Balarama and Kalki. Periyazhwar did summarize all these dasaavataras though: "Thenudaya meenamaai, aamayaai, enamaai, ariyaai, kuralaai, moondruruviraamanaai, kannanaai, kalkiyai mudippan kovil..." Parasurama has been in fact depicted as an angry person from whom Shri Rama grabbed the Dhanus and along with it his anger & thapas. As Parasurama and Balarama are more of aavesa avathaarams, they aren't glorified to much extent. But there are references to these in quite a few pasurams of azhwars. Choodikkoduttha chudarkkodi says, "Baladevarkkor keezhkkandrai", "semporkazhal adi selva baladeva" etc. Thiru Arangatthamudhanaar (author of Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi) says: "Kokkula mannarai moovezhukaal, orr koor mazhuvaal, pokkiya devanai pottrum punidhan" i.e Ramanuja worshipped that lord who destroyed 21 generations of the kshatriyas with a sharp axe - Parasurama. Regarding buddha, few of our scholars say that it was Shriman Narayana who came as him to spread the naasthika matham to maintain a balance. I am not sure whether this is authentic. Even if this is true, it is definitely not a part of the 10 avataarams. It would be more of a side track like Hayagreeva, Hamsa avataarams. I am sure other learned scholars might come up with more information. Sarva aparaadhaan kshamasva Azhwaar Emperumaanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale Saranam adiyen, Ramanuja Dasan ramanuja, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan> wrote: > Sri: > > Respected SriVaishnavAs, > > Many fora, many discussions on this topic. I want to encapsulate them all in a single mail. According to Sri Vaishnavism, the 10 AvatArAs of Lord Sriman Narayana are: > > 1) Matsya > 2) kUrma > 3) VarAhA > 4) Nrsimha > 5) vAmanA > 6) parasurAmA > 7) rAmA > 8) balarAmA > 9) KrSnA > 10) KalkI. > > Has balarAmA been glorified by the AzhwArs or the AzAryAs?? > > And one more, the poet Jayadeva calls Buddha as an avataara, but our AzhwArs tear Buddha and his philosophy to pieces. Is the Buddha referred by JayadeEvA the same as "Adhi Buddha" or does Jayadeva glorify Gautama Buddha himself?? And what is the stand of our Sampradayam with respect to Buddha?? > > Dasan, > Kidambi Soundararajan. > > > > > Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Sri: Srimate Ramanujaya nama: Srimate Varavara munaye nama: Sri Nappinnai, In addition to Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan's wonderful quote from PeriyAzhwAr Thirumozhi, let me add Sri Vanamamalai Padmanabhan's quotation of Thirumangai AzhwAr in one of the sister fora (oppiliappan): Begin quote >> The ten avathArA-s have been precisely spelt out by sri kaliyan in his periya thiru mozhi ".mEnodu Amai kEzhal ari kuRaLAi, munnum irAmanAi, thAnAi, pinnum irAmanAi, dhAmodharanAi kaRkiyum AnAn thannai.." periya thiru mozhi 8-8-10 mEnOdu=matsyam; Amai==kUrmam; kEzhal=varAham; ari=narasimham; kuRaL=vAmanam; munnum irAman=parasu rAman thAnAi=chakravarthith thirumagan;pinnum irAmanAi=bala rAman dhAmOdharan=krishNan;=kaRki-kalki. Another reference to sri bala rAmar nAchiyAr thiru mozhi "patti mEindhOr kAr yEAru pala dhEvaRku Or kEzh kanRAi.." nAchiyAr thiru mozhi 14-1. Lord krishNA behaved in a obedient manner towards His elder brother sri bala rAmar. >> end quote. As per Buddha, According to Sri Tridandi Jeeyar Swamy's discourses on the same subject that while there was indeed a BuddhAvatharan who came to mislead the asurans with false teachings, this Buddha was not the same Buddha as Siddhartha. So, the Buddha of Buddhism is not an avAtharan of Vishnu. SriVaishnavam is strongly opposed to many of Buddhism's views, and its achAryans have very clear and logical reasons for this opposition. Even the Buddha who is mentioned in Srimad Bhagavatham, is Adhi Buddha not Gautama Buddha (his birth and life details don't match with what is given in Srimad BhAgavatham). Gautama Buddha spread a religion that was totally anti-vedic. Adhi Buddha was a "minor" (if you will) incarnation who seduced the wives of some TripurasUrAs etc.. I donno the details. Unfortunately there is a total misconception on the identities of these two identities. Also, the AzhwArs who had described about Sriman NArAyanA more than even the upanishads (in more details) have not glorified him anywhere, rather attacked his philosophy. Dasan, Kidambi Soundararajan. AzhwAr emperumAnAr JIyar tiruvadigaLE Saranam Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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