Guest guest Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Dear all, I apologize if this question is out of context. With my limited knowledge and reading I understand that "Forgiveness is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is extremley difficult. So I would be grateful if the group could let me know of guidelines that are prescribed in the Sastras regarding this divine act. I would be grateful if you could offer examples from epics, for easier comprehension. Must be forgive everyone who asks for forgiveness, or are there acts that are just unpardonable? What if people don't repent their mistakes, Must we still forgive them? Please elucidate, Adiyen, Madhusudhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2004 Report Share Posted March 11, 2004 ramanuja, "k_madhusudhan22" <K_madhusudhan22> wrote: > Dear all, > > I apologize if this question is out of context. > > With my limited knowledge and reading I understand that "Forgiveness > is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is extremley difficult. > > So I would be grateful if the group could let me know of guidelines > that are prescribed in the Sastras regarding this divine act. I > would be grateful if you could offer examples from epics, for easier > comprehension. Dear Sriman Madhusudhan, Best example is Lord Himself, as He was ready to forgive even rAvaNa. He not only forgave SiSupAla for 100 offences but also delivered Him. Due to our ahankAra and mamakAra, we will be vindictive towards those who offend us. We can overcome that state only by His katAksham. > > Must be forgive everyone who asks for forgiveness, or are there > acts > that are just unpardonable? You have to punish them as a citizen if their acts are harmful to the society. It is advisable to forgive those who harmed or offended you alone, even if they do not repent. But take care of your interests when it comes to practice! I mean we cannot continue to be cheated just because we have forgiven. Dasan Vishnu > What if people don't repent their > mistakes, Must we still forgive them? > > Please elucidate, > > Adiyen, > Madhusudhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 Dear Sri Madhusudhanan, From what I have learned, sa:stra defines dharma as - dhriyathe: dha:rayathe: ithi dharmaha - dharma is something that both is to be supported and which supports us. There is no single word, no hard and fast set of rules or codes of conduct, that can define what dharma is; it is only to be practiced, it really cannot be taught. While it is built upon the spirit of the ideals of Ve:da, the practice of dharma is fluid, varying from individual to individual, experience to experience, and from condition to condition. But, if anything were to define it, it could be said that it involves patience and introspection, such that we can clearly and objectively observe the conditions around us, and respond in ways such that some positive benefit will result. Our acha:ryas use the exampe of water in describing dharma in practice. In its essence, water remains constant. But, it assumes the color and shape of the container in which it is placed. Similarly, a good human being must seek to live a life of service to the Divine as is one's True Nature, and express this by willing to respond in appropriate ways that are suited to varying conditions and personalities. In the case of our dealing with fellow human beings, to some patience and forgiveness must shown, to others strenth and sometimes even force must be shown, and still to others love and nurturing must be offered. But, all these actions or emotions should have behind them the overarching ideal that it will bring some benefit to the other person(s) involved. Consequently whether we individually forgive or not forgive someone is not as important as whether or not our response brings some spiritual benefit to him/her. Experience and practice is the best way to understand this. I hope this helps. Ramanuja dasan Mohan k_madhusudhan22 wrote: >Dear all, > >I apologize if this question is out of context. > >With my limited knowledge and reading I understand that "Forgiveness >is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is extremley difficult. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 - nsp oppiliappan ; vanamamalai Friday, March 12, 2004 7:09 AM Fw: [ramanuja] Forgiveness - nsp ramanuja Cc: oppiliappan ; vanamamalai Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:04 PM Re: [ramanuja] Forgiveness Dear Shri Madhusudhan, I do no know whether i am giving the appropriate reply but your question immediately reminded me of swAmi piLLai lOkAchAryA's srE vachaNa bhUshaNa sUthram 365 which runs as folows "kuRRam seidhavargaL pakkal poRaiyum, kripayum, sirippum, vugappum, upakAra smrithiyum nadakka vEaNum" The reactions expected of a srEvaishNavite towards persons committing mistakes on them, is listed in this sUthram 1. poRai--> poRumai--> patience. To think of even taking revengeful anction should be avoided. 2. kripai-->Compaission--> Even if we are patient, as mentioned above, the Lord Almighy may punish them.Hence, we should be compassionate towards him. 3. sirippum--> Smile and laugh--> The troubles created by these people will not harm our mission towards Him. It may harm some material aspects of this world. But unlike them,srEvaishNavites will not worry over these worldly aspects. Hence, they will be disappointed in fact in expecting to disappoint us, in this regard, resulting in a smile. 4. vugappum---> Affectionate towards them--> The troubles created by them may be towards a. our body or b. towards our worldly comforts. Both are to be shunned by us are these are hurdles towards the path to the Lord's service. Since, these troubles only help in furthering our missions, we should be affectionate towards them. 5. upakAra smrithiyam--. gratitude towards them---> The troubles created by them may actually remind us of defects in us, which will enable us to rectify the same. hence we should be grateful towards them. These are the ideal reaction expected of srEvaishNavites. Thank you and regards rAmAnuja dhAsan vAnamAmalai padmanabhan - k_madhusudhan22 ramanuja Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:44 AM [ramanuja] Forgiveness Dear all, I apologize if this question is out of context. With my limited knowledge and reading I understand that "Forgiveness is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is extremley difficult. So I would be grateful if the group could let me know of guidelines that are prescribed in the Sastras regarding this divine act. I would be grateful if you could offer examples from epics, for easier comprehension. Must be forgive everyone who asks for forgiveness, or are there acts that are just unpardonable? What if people don't repent their mistakes, Must we still forgive them? Please elucidate, Adiyen, Madhusudhan azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam ramanuja/ b.. ramanuja c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Adiyen "Forgiveness" in Sanskrit is ksha-maa - ksha meaning to decrease and maa meaning to measure. When we forgive someone, it is not for their sake but for ours. As long as we do not forgive wrongs and offences committed against us we remain connected to that person karmically - there is a "runa-anubandha". When we forgive, we decrease the measure of our connection with that individual and so liberating ourselves from karmic connection and future suffering. So forgiving necessarily is accompanied by forgetting! Dasoham Sri Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 Dear Mohan and Madhusudhanan, Adiyen Varadan would like to add few comments on what is dharma, how to find out one's dharma, how to practise and also on the question on forgiveness. 1. Dharma means one's own nature i.e actions in accordance with one's nature. 2. There are two aspects - svadharma (own nature) and paradharma (opposed to one's own nature) and Bagavad Gita emphatically declares one to do svadharma and to eschew paradharma. 3. The first verse of Gita starts with dharma and the last verse ends with mama (mine). So what one's dharma is, how to do etc is what the whole Gita about. 4. Also there the Lord says - dharma virudhho bhoodeshu kamosmi baradharshaba - I am the desires not opposed to dharma, in the beings (Ch 7 - 11) 5. What is an ideal dharma ? - in Isavasya Upanishad it is said if one does not realise God in this life the whole life is - mahathi vinashti - supreme waste So whatever profession we do - the ultimate goal should be realisation of God. One can also have recourse to Chapter 12 in Gita where Lord beautifully narrates the sequence of spiritual disciplines in verses 8 to 11. 6. Now coming to the specific question - forgiveness is dharma but is difficult to practice - Patience, forgiveness is considered a virtue (it is one the qualities of bakta - Gita Ch 12 - 13). Mark Twain beautifully elucidates that quality - forgiveness is the fragrance that violet (a flower) releases when the foot crushes it. The problem in its practise could be due to : our attachment / identification with the body, mind or intellect. We develop inferiority complex with respect to our body or mind or intellect if we forgive. So getting rid of such attachments could provide some solution. Forgiveness - may be easier to practise - if we raise our selves - go higher (spiritually) so that we depend less on the external world for our happiness. If by not fogiving it would benefit beings in general (not for selfish interest) or establish dharma then that time it can be given up (reminding us with the declaration - hate the sin not the sinner). So a proper intellect would help to decide on a given situation - to forgive or not to forgive. To develop the intellect we need to study, reflect and practice spiritual knowledge on a daily / regular basis. Adiyenikku adiyen, Varadan --- Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan wrote: > Dear Sri Madhusudhanan, > > From what I have learned, sa:stra defines dharma > as - dhriyathe: > dha:rayathe: ithi dharmaha - dharma is something > that both is to be > supported and which supports us. There is no single > word, no hard and > fast set of rules or codes of conduct, that can > define what dharma is; > it is only to be practiced, it really cannot be > taught. While it is > built upon the spirit of the ideals of Ve:da, the > practice of dharma is > fluid, varying from individual to individual, > experience to experience, > and from condition to condition. But, if anything > were to define it, it > could be said that it involves patience and > introspection, such that we > can clearly and objectively observe the conditions > around us, and > respond in ways such that some positive benefit will > result. > > Our acha:ryas use the exampe of water in describing > dharma in > practice. In its essence, water remains constant. > But, it assumes the > color and shape of the container in which it is > placed. Similarly, a > good human being must seek to live a life of service > to the Divine as is > one's True Nature, and express this by willing to > respond in appropriate > ways that are suited to varying conditions and > personalities. In the > case of our dealing with fellow human beings, to > some patience and > forgiveness must shown, to others strenth and > sometimes even force must > be shown, and still to others love and nurturing > must be offered. But, > all these actions or emotions should have behind > them the overarching > ideal that it will bring some benefit to the other > person(s) involved. > > Consequently whether we individually forgive or not > forgive someone is > not as important as whether or not our response > brings some spiritual > benefit to him/her. > > Experience and practice is the best way to > understand this. I hope this > helps. > > Ramanuja dasan > Mohan > > > > k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > >Dear all, > > > >I apologize if this question is out of context. > > > >With my limited knowledge and reading I understand > that "Forgiveness > >is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is > extremley difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > Links > > > ramanuja > > > ______________________ India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, tools and more. Go to: http://in.insurance./licspecial/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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