Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Sri. Madhusudhanan Actually there is one more view that prapatti can fetch definitely moksham. This view is held predominantly by Vadakalai Acharyas. For instance, in vadakalai sampradayam, one has to perform samashreyanam (pancha samaskaram) and then Athma Nivedanam or Athma Vivaham (prapatti). You can go through the article on samashreyanam written by Sri. Anand Karalapakkam in the following weblink: http://www.ahobilamutt.org/samas.html I will go into the details of prapatti from some clips from Sri. Anand Karalapakkam Swami's article: sAstrAs declare that Bhakti and prapatti are the only two means (sAdhya upAyAs) by which the baddha jIvAtmAs can attain moksham, while the Divya Dampati are the Siddha upAyam. The problem with Bhakti yoga is that it is very tough to follow and it might take many janmas to reach the moksham. But prapatti is an easy upayam in which Sriman Narayana is the means to attain himself. The main problem with prapatti is that people might not get cent percent faith in attaining moksham because of surrendering to Sriman Narayana. If we do not have the faith that only Sriman Narayana can grant moksham and by doing prapatti to perumal and thayar will definitely give us moksham, then the whole act of surrendering does not materialize. Hence, mahavisvasam is one of the main qualities needed for prapatti. The main qualities needed for an aspirant are: Akinchanyam: Destituteness which may result either due to one's lack of mental and physical strength to adopt bhakti yogA OR lack of requisite knowledge from sAstrAs OR Prohibition by sAstrAs regarding the adoption of Bhakti yOgA OR Inability to put up with any delay in attaining mokshA. Ananyagatitvam: Seeking the Supreme Lord Sriman NArAyaNA as the sole refuge with complete aversion to all fruits other than mokshA. This implies that one shouldn't resort even in his/her dream to a demigod like BrahmA, ShivA etc. Prapatti has the following five angas: 1. Anukoolyasankalpam: Determination of performing actions that are only pleasing to Sriman Narayana. 2. Pratikoolyasya Varjanam: Avoidance of any acts that are displeasing to Sriman Narayana. 3. KArpanyam: Feeling of utter helplessness. i.e We should realize our inabilities to perform any Bhakti yoga and we should realize that Sriman Narayana is the sole refuge. One can also say that karpanyam is the realization that only Sriman Narayana can help us. We cannot protect ourselves and only perumal can protect us. 4. MahaVisvAsam: 100% faith that only Sriman Narayana can grant moksham. "Marandum Puram Thozha Maanthar" is our BhaktiSarar's words which can be shown as an example for mahaVisvAsam. 5. Goptrtva Varanam: This is the prayer for asking protection and grant moksha from perumal and thayar. From that time onwards, take a resolution that we will lead a life as ordained by these five rules. There are some more components involved in prapatti and you can refer to http://www.ahobilamutt.org/prapatti.html for a detailed explanation. Also reading an explanation of Swami Desikan's Nyasa Dasakam will give u a very crisp and easy view about prapatti. There are three methods of peforming this act and two types of prapatti. 3 methods: 1. Acharya Nishtai: The acharya himself asks for protection to the surrendered jivatma and asks perumal to grant moksham. In this case, the adhikari who is doing bharanyasam, has to do nothing but surrender to an acharya and request him to perform the prapatti on behalf of him. This type is prapatti is performed by Srimad Andavan Ashram and sometimes by SriAhobilaMutt (if the adhikari is in some unforeseen times or if he/she is too young to do this). 2. Ukti Nishtai: This is done by Adhikari whereas Acharyan directs the adhikari to recite the mantras for asking for moksham. This is commonly followed prapatti in Sri Ahobilamutt. 3. SwaNishtai: Swanishtai is the act of surrendering to the lord by himself/herself. For this we need to have lots of gnanam/vairagyam and many other qualities for us to do this kind of prapatti. Gajendra's surrender to Varadan, Draupadi's surrender to Krishna, Swami Desikan's prapatti to Athigiri Perumal, Swami Ramanujar's surrender to Srirangam divya dampathigal etc can be considered as examples of Swanishtai. Three types: 1. Thrupta Prapatti: This is the prapatti in which one asks for moksham after completing this janma. i.e Until dehavasaanam happens, one remains as a surrendered soul. This is the prapatti done in lots of mutts/ashrams in Vadakalai Sampradayam. 2. Artha Prapatti: This is the prapatti performed when one wants to attain moksham immediately. I believe that Swami Koorathazhwan did that kind of prapatti to divya dampathigal of SriRangam. He prayed for moksham even before Swami Ramanuja attains moksham. This he did so that he can receive Swami Ramanujar with honors in vaikuntam. A Parkala Mutt Jeeyar was supposed to have done Artha Prapatti to prove Swami Desikan's vaaku. According to Srimath Mukkur Azhagiyasingar (who performed Rajagopura kaimkaryam to SriRanganathar), prapatti is guaranteed to grant one moksham. One thing to avoid after performance of prapatti is "Bhaagavatha Apacharam" and "Anya devatha aradhanam". NOTE: I am not writing this to create an argument between vadakalai and thenkalai side. I am just stating the facts as presented from Swami Desikan Sampradayam. It will be very good to know both sampradayams. As such I am learning a lot about Thennacharya Sampradayic views on prapatti/bhakti and other bhagavath vishayams. ------------------------- Srimathe Lakshminrusimha divya pAduka sevika srivan satakopa Sri Narayana Yathindra MahadesikAya Namaha ------------------------- >ramanuja >ramanuja >ramanuja >[ramanuja] Digest Number 761 >15 Mar 2004 14:07:18 -0000 > > >There are 13 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Fw: Forgiveness > nsp <aazhwar > 2. five forms in one > Supraja Vasudevan Iyengar <suprajaiyengar > 3. Re: hey decent man > nsp <aazhwar > 4. Fw: AchArya Hrhdayam 180-Eighth ten concluded > nsp <aazhwar > 5. Re: Question - Prapatti > Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan > 6. Re: Forgiveness > s v <sunvar01 > 7. Gaganagiri Muni. > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam > 8. AchArya Hrhdayam 181-9th Ten Inroduction > nsp <aazhwar > 9. RE: hey decent man > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv > 10. who are these aazhvaars > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv > 11. Re: Forgiveness > <purohit > 12. Writing to communicate. > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam > 13. RE: Question - Prapatti > "Gunaseelan v" <gunav > > > >Message: 5 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:41:38 -0700 > Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan >Re: Question - Prapatti > >Dear Madhusudhanan, > >Neither prapatti nor the formal practice of Bhakthi Yo:ga can assure >anyone of mo:ksha. Mo:ksha is solely the gift of the Lord Himself, out >of His Boundless Compassion, and only at a time when He feels that an >invidual is ready for it. > >The challenge with Bhakthi Yo:ga is that it can only belong to a few, >namely qualified Brahmin males who are well-suited to live a life of >strict discipline, meditation, and practice; those with the tenacity to >be able to forsake material comforts and wordly obligations and focus >only on the goal of achieving salvation, despite the knowledge that such >salvation can only be given at the time the Lord feels that one is >ready. Needless to say, this path is filled with many obstacles and >hardships, and is virtually impossible in this day and age. >Consequently, prapatti is afforded to everyone, irrespective of race, >caste, or gender, as the only method for one seeking Connection to the >Divine. > >It is important to note that the term "method" is being used only for >description's sake, because prapatti is not a ritual or some sort of >step-by-step process that has clear-cut guidelines and specific >requirements. Nor can we truly say that it even has a specific goal. >It is instead a realization, an awakening, if you will, in which one >realizes that all that we are, all that we experience, all that we know >and love, is but a gift of the Divine, and has Him Alone to which it >must owe its very existence. This awareness makes us realize that ours >is just to revel at just how much Love He must feel for each and every >one of us to provide us with all of this without condition. What else >can one do at this point but love in return, becoming simple receptacles >to His Grace and instruments to His Good? > >Such a realization, such a profound awakening, cannot happen without >God's Grace, either, which comes to us in the form of the Acha:rya, >under whose guidance we place ourselves through the sacrament of >panchasamska:ram. It is he who prays to the Lord to give us the right >mood of humility and servitude such that we can know Peace and Joy in >His Loving Hands. Since it is really the Acha:rya who is "doing all the >work" in praying and interceding on our behalf, it could be said that we >should be less concerned for prapatti as we should be for serving our >Acha:rya in gratitude for all that he is doing for us. And, indeed, as >one of our great works, Sri: Vachana Bhu:shanam tells us, if there >really is a guaranteed method for achieving mo:ksha, it is serving the >Acha:rya with faith and love. > >I hope this helps. > >Ramanuja dasan >Mohan > > > >k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > >>From my understanding the criterion required for Prapatti and > >eventually Moksha are: > > > >1. Devotion only to Sriman Narayana > >2. Refrain from Bhaagvadh Abacharaam > > > >Correct me if I am wrong, but because of the lord's "Daya" > >Gunaa "anyone" can get Prapatti done. > > > > > >So my question then: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ > > >Madhuri and Mohan [m_raghavan] >Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:12 AM >ramanuja >Re: [ramanuja] Question - Prapatti > > >Dear Madhusudhanan, > >Neither prapatti nor the formal practice of Bhakthi Yo:ga can assure >anyone of mo:ksha. Mo:ksha is solely the gift of the Lord Himself, out >of His Boundless Compassion, and only at a time when He feels that an >invidual is ready for it. > >The challenge with Bhakthi Yo:ga is that it can only belong to a few, >namely qualified Brahmin males who are well-suited to live a life of >strict discipline, meditation, and practice; those with the tenacity to >be able to forsake material comforts and wordly obligations and focus >only on the goal of achieving salvation, despite the knowledge that such >salvation can only be given at the time the Lord feels that one is >ready. Needless to say, this path is filled with many obstacles and >hardships, and is virtually impossible in this day and age. >Consequently, prapatti is afforded to everyone, irrespective of race, >caste, or gender, as the only method for one seeking Connection to the >Divine. > >It is important to note that the term "method" is being used only for >description's sake, because prapatti is not a ritual or some sort of >step-by-step process that has clear-cut guidelines and specific >requirements. Nor can we truly say that it even has a specific goal. >It is instead a realization, an awakening, if you will, in which one >realizes that all that we are, all that we experience, all that we know >and love, is but a gift of the Divine, and has Him Alone to which it >must owe its very existence. This awareness makes us realize that ours >is just to revel at just how much Love He must feel for each and every >one of us to provide us with all of this without condition. What else >can one do at this point but love in return, becoming simple receptacles >to His Grace and instruments to His Good? > >Such a realization, such a profound awakening, cannot happen without >God's Grace, either, which comes to us in the form of the Acha:rya, >under whose guidance we place ourselves through the sacrament of >panchasamska:ram. It is he who prays to the Lord to give us the right >mood of humility and servitude such that we can know Peace and Joy in >His Loving Hands. Since it is really the Acha:rya who is "doing all the >work" in praying and interceding on our behalf, it could be said that we >should be less concerned for prapatti as we should be for serving our >Acha:rya in gratitude for all that he is doing for us. And, indeed, as >one of our great works, Sri: Vachana Bhu:shanam tells us, if there >really is a guaranteed method for achieving mo:ksha, it is serving the >Acha:rya with faith and love. > >I hope this helps. > >Ramanuja dasan >Mohan > > > >k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > >>From my understanding the criterion required for Prapatti and > >eventually Moksha are: > > > >1. Devotion only to Sriman Narayana > >2. Refrain from Bhaagvadh Abacharaam > > > >Correct me if I am wrong, but because of the lord's "Daya" > >Gunaa "anyone" can get Prapatti done. > > > > > ------------------------- Srimathe Lakshminrusimha divya pAduka sevika srivan satakopa Sri Narayana Yathindra MahadesikAya Namaha ------------------------- >ramanuja >ramanuja >ramanuja >[ramanuja] Digest Number 761 >15 Mar 2004 14:07:18 -0000 > > >There are 13 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Fw: Forgiveness > nsp <aazhwar > 2. five forms in one > Supraja Vasudevan Iyengar <suprajaiyengar > 3. Re: hey decent man > nsp <aazhwar > 4. Fw: AchArya Hrhdayam 180-Eighth ten concluded > nsp <aazhwar > 5. Re: Question - Prapatti > Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan > 6. Re: Forgiveness > s v <sunvar01 > 7. Gaganagiri Muni. > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam > 8. AchArya Hrhdayam 181-9th Ten Inroduction > nsp <aazhwar > 9. RE: hey decent man > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv > 10. who are these aazhvaars > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv > 11. Re: Forgiveness > <purohit > 12. Writing to communicate. > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam > 13. RE: Question - Prapatti > "Gunaseelan v" <gunav > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:59:29 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >Fw: Forgiveness > > >- >nsp >oppiliappan ; vanamamalai >Friday, March 12, 2004 7:09 AM >Fw: [ramanuja] Forgiveness > > > >- >nsp >ramanuja >Cc: oppiliappan ; vanamamalai >Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:04 PM >Re: [ramanuja] Forgiveness > > >Dear Shri Madhusudhan, I do no know whether i am giving the appropriate >reply but your question immediately reminded me of swAmi piLLai >lOkAchAryA's srE vachaNa bhUshaNa sUthram 365 which runs as folows > >"kuRRam seidhavargaL pakkal poRaiyum, kripayum, sirippum, vugappum, upakAra >smrithiyum nadakka vEaNum" > >The reactions expected of a srEvaishNavite towards persons committing >mistakes on them, is listed in this sUthram > >1. poRai--> poRumai--> patience. To think of even taking revengeful anction >should be avoided. >2. kripai-->Compaission--> Even if we are patient, as mentioned above, the >Lord Almighy may punish them.Hence, we should be compassionate towards him. >3. sirippum--> Smile and laugh--> The troubles created by these people will >not harm our mission towards Him. It may harm some material aspects of this >world. But unlike them,srEvaishNavites will not worry over these worldly >aspects. Hence, they will be disappointed in fact in expecting to >disappoint us, in this regard, resulting in a smile. >4. vugappum---> Affectionate towards them--> The troubles created by them >may be towards a. our body or b. towards our worldly comforts. Both are to >be shunned by us are these are hurdles towards the path to the Lord's >service. Since, these troubles only help in furthering our missions, we >should be affectionate towards them. >5. upakAra smrithiyam--. gratitude towards them---> The troubles created by >them may actually remind us of defects in us, which will enable us to >rectify the same. hence we should be grateful towards them. > >These are the ideal reaction expected of srEvaishNavites. >Thank you and regards >rAmAnuja dhAsan >vAnamAmalai padmanabhan > > > > > - > k_madhusudhan22 > ramanuja > Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:44 AM > [ramanuja] Forgiveness > > > Dear all, > > I apologize if this question is out of context. > > With my limited knowledge and reading I understand that "Forgiveness > is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is extremley difficult. > > So I would be grateful if the group could let me know of guidelines > that are prescribed in the Sastras regarding this divine act. I > would be grateful if you could offer examples from epics, for easier > comprehension. > > Must be forgive everyone who asks for forgiveness, or are there acts > that are just unpardonable? What if people don't repent their > mistakes, Must we still forgive them? > > Please elucidate, > > Adiyen, > Madhusudhan > > > > > azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > > > Sponsor > Links > > > ramanuja/ > > b.. > ramanuja > > c.. Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:27:07 -0800 (PST) > Supraja Vasudevan Iyengar <suprajaiyengar >five forms in one > >Five Forms in One >Episode III: > >In the third Episode when Lord Ranganatha in Archa revealed HIS “Vibhava” >was that of Godha of Srivilliputhur. Sri Vishnuchitta, a Vaishnavite >Brahmin was very much devoted to the presiding deity of Srivilliputhur viz. >Lord Rangamannar. He was very much engaged in the service of Lord by >carrying garlands made of flowers and Tulasi. For this purpose he developed >a garden wherefrom he picked the fresh flowers and Tulasi with dew on them. >While on this divine duty in the garden he stumbled on a beautiful female >child which he carried home and become her foster father. It was the Tamil >month of “Adi” and the star was “Pooram” on that day. The foundling was >brought up by Vishnuchitta in an atmosphere which exuded nothing but divine >fragrance. As the Tulasi plant possessed the natural smell, the child had >the instinct of divinity in her. She was given the name “Godha” which >according to scholars carries different meaning and connotations. > >She was influenced by the stories on Bhagavatham and Ramayanam from his >foster father who was fully immersed in “Krishnamritham” as is seen from >his “Thirumozhi”. He deals with Lord Krishna’s childhood and his pranks in >the form of Tamil hymns. It is considered to be a compendium of Bhakavatham >in Tamil so to say. She likened Srivilliputhur to Brindavanam and the >damsels of the place to “Gopikas” and herself assumed the role of a leader >of those innocent Shepard ladies. She enacted what all happened in >dwaparayuga forgetting that she was in Kaliyuga. Godha was so much involved >in Bhakthi that she did not realize what she was doing by adorning herself >with the garland that was kept by her father to be taken to Vatapatrasai. >She saw her reflection through the placid waters of well within the temple >complex, with a view to satisfying herself as a suitable match for the >Lord. She then kept the garland back in its original place and was silent >as if nothing happened. On returning home > from the garden Vishniuchitta went straight to carry the garland to the >temple. He was aghast to find a bit of hair in it. He was upset that the >garland had been desecrated. He questioned his daughter whether she knew >anything about it. Godha accepted her folly and displayed penitence. A >fresh garland was made and Vishnuchitta took it to the sanctum sanctorum of >Vatapadrasai, when he heard the divine voice proclaiming that He preferred >only the garland that was worn by “Godha”. Vishnuchitta concluded that his >daughter was not of that ordinary but had divinity in her. From that date >onwards Godha is called “Choodikodutha Nachiyar” > >In her immortal songs numbering thirty called “Thirpavai” in which Godha >has given to the world the quintessence of Vedas. On becoming an adult >Godha appealed to Lord of seven hills, the Azhagar of Thirumalirunsollai of >her state of being forlorn and her desire to join Lord Rangantha of >Srirangam. Her expressions of love and seperation from the Lord in the form >of Tamil verses are called “Nachiyar Thirumozhi” numbering one hundred and >forty three. > >When Vishniuchitta disclosed his desire to find a suitable spouse for Godha >she immediately reacted in the nature of a repartee saying that her >physical frame is intended only for the lord, and warned that if any >attempt is made to marry her to mortal, she would no more be alive. >Vishnuchitta in a quandary without knowing what to do and concluded that >his daughter was referring from some psychic condition. At last >Vishnuchitta had to yield t o the wish of Godha and decided to take her to >Srirangam and for that purpose he requisitioned two palanquins one for >himself and the other for Godha from Vallabha Pandian. They set off for the >Holy place and it was dusk when they reached the banks of Cauvery. >Vishnuchitta took leave of his daughter for a while to reach the river for >the evening oblation. After completing the ritual he returned to the place >where his daughter was waiting in the palanquin and was alarmed to find it >vacant. He had to guess that Lord Rangantha had taken he away to > his abode and bemoaningly he declared that He had only one daughter and >that he had brought her up as Mahalakshmi; perhaps Lots eyed “Thirumal” had >carried her away. > >Thus Godha obtained the name Andal and joined Lord Rangantha of Srirangam. >This is also an instance of Vibhava out of Archa. We can deduce that lord >Ranganatha is very much in Vibhava as He is in Archa and Srirangam mnay be >taken as the confluence of Five forms of Lord Vishnu and is being called >Bhooloka Vaikunta. > >This article was written by Late Sri L.P.Sampath Iyengar > >Comments and feedback are welcome to suprajaiyengar > >CONCLUDED > > > > Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:31:58 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >Re: hey decent man > >Dear shri vAsudEvan swAmi, > >AzhwAr descriptions of amourous glances on a maiden can never be more >precise. This so because, she has been subject to such looks. > >The words "She doesnt mind such glances but is worried that her mother >will see it" has provoked me into talking a pAsuram from thiru-virutham >"kayalO! numa kaNgaL enRu kaLiRu vinavi niRREr, >ayalOr aRiyilum, Edhenna vArthai..." thiru virutham 15 > >The damsel tells it to the person who had actually come in search of >elephant but expresse the opinion that her eyes are like fish. She >immediately responds that " What are you talking. What will happen if >others hear it?" one interpretatio is that she does not mind it but is only >worried about the society. That is thiru virutham . > >As far as thiru mozhi is concerned I always regard the atta puyakaram thiru >mozhi and this thiru nAgai thiru mozhi as similar. Somehow, both rings the >same tone. A sample. > >"vanji marungul nerunga nOkki, vAi thiRandhu onRu paNithadhu vuNdu, >nanjam vudaithu ivar nOkkum nOkkam..." periya thiru mozhi 2-8-9 > >The looks are close to the middle portion of the girl-idai-- it is >venomous, is the excalamation by AzhwAr. That is again a compliment given >by parakAla nAyaki towards the Lord for His scrutiny of AzhwAr's physical >profile. How is that? > >By the way "ivaL vAyil nal vEdham" is a suggestion that one should indulge >in good vEdic portions-primarily the talk of the Lord and His auspicious >qualities-bhagawadh vishayam. >sAma vEdham, purusha sUktham and even thiru-voi-mozhi can be considered so. >Is it not? > > >rAmAnuja dhAsan >vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > - > M.G.Vasudevan > > Cc: oppiliappan ; ramanuja > Friday, March 12, 2004 2:48 PM > [ramanuja] hey decent man > > > Dear Sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer > > When a person can be called a decent man? > > You, all, will react to this question saying > * when he exhibits good and pleasing manners, etiquette etc, when >he is being approached by an unknown person like you and me, > * when he talks in simple language in courteous manner to us when >some questions are put to him by us when we approach him, > * when he is neatly dressed, > * when he appears to be well educated, > * when he is gentle in his actions > > But can a person be called a decent man for he is looking at one girl? >That too when she describes > * I am being looked at by him curiously, > * he also looks at my thighs, > * he also looks at my breasts, the young and tender ones which I >carry". > > Perhaps, if it is present days or modern times, such a person will be >immediately booked for damaging the modesty of a young women, or, for "eve >teasing" under Cr PC sections. Immediately on the other side a big >commotion would set in by women's associations and organisations. > > But the same girl, who first said he looks at me, as stated above, >certifies him as he is very decent - very civilized, says "he is >naagarikar". Also adds he is beautiful and very young, for he also entered >my house and then only does all these. > > Perhaps she also wants that she should be looked at like that. The only >thing she is afraid of is "what my mother will think when she sees this >person looking at me and my body parts?" > > Dear bhakthaas, you all now wonder what this man wants to write that too >in serious lists like et al, a cinema scene? May be - if filmed >it will be quite entertaining in its real sense. Before accusing me read >on. > > Now a doubt comes whether what she says is false [as a decent man - >naagarigar] or the maintenance that she is afraid of her mother is false, >for she goes on to describe how beautiful he is. If she is afraid of mother >why should she go on and on to describe him. > > For this is all stated by thirumangai aazhvaar in his paasurams. The >person looking at the girl is none other than my krishNa, the girl looked >at is none else than the aazhvaar. > > Now read more - > "thOzhee, ennaiyum nOkki en algulum nOkki > Enthu iLam kongaiyum nOkkuginRaar > annai en nOkkum enR anjuginREn" > > "nambar nam illam pugundhu ninRaar, naagarigar, peridhum iLaiyar". > > The reference is 9-2 -1 and 4 of the thirunaagai aazhvaar paasurams in >his periya thirumozhi. > > Dear bhakthaas, see here, is the 'certificate' for that decent man. Also >he is nambar - nam anbar - our dear man - or a royal 'we' - he is my 'man'. > > Now I understand why he is described such - for I also love him - so he >becomes decent in spite of looking at differently in different places of my >body - he is very young one also - so may be the paarvai - the looking is >nishkalangam - with no blemishes. > > Ok, let him see me in whatever way he wants or wherever he wants. No >inhibitions on my part in exposing myself to himfor he is nambar. For that >also gives me a chance to see him more and describe him. I will not stop >describing him. So goes on - as "achchO oruvar azhagiyavaa" - oh, a >beautiful person. > > Dear bhakthaas, already we saw his beauty is the medicine for all types >of ills for us - so let us enjoy more of his beauty. > > pon ivar mEni - gold has become his body > > min maragadhaththin pongu iLam jOthi agalaththu aaram - the haaram - the >ornament hanging in the chest has a green gem - maragatham - dazzles in >light green shine > > min ivar vaayil nal vEdhamOdhum - that min - glittering can also be >added here - glittering mouth utters the different vEdhaas - vEdham Odhum >or vEdham mOdhum - both are apt - these vEdhaas desire to go into his mouth >and come out as uttered by him - so they rush to go in and come out dashing >against each other - so vEdham mOdhum vaai. > > senchudar aazhiyum sangum Endhi - the hands carry the conch and the >radiant wheel > kaiyana aazhiyum sangum Endhi - meaning same as above > > paadaga melladiyaar vaNanga - paadagam named jewel is in the soft lotus >petal feet which are being worshipped by his devotees. Also melladiyaar - >menmaiyaana bhakthaas - once transformed into his bhakthaas they become >soft in nature - so also melladiyaar - they worship those feet which adorns >the paadagam - an ornament like that kazhal. [aaNdaaL also refers this >paadagam - "soodagamE thOL vaLaiyE thOdE sevip poovE paadagamE enRu anaiya >palkalanum" in her "koodaarai" paasuram] > > panmaNi muththodu ilangu jOthi aadagam pooNdu oru naangu thOLum - the >four shoulders having aadagam named jewel - [thOL vaLai for aaNdaaL] in all >4 shoulder parts, several gems and pearls glitter in these jewels. > > now comes the real description - iv vaiyagam ellaam thaayina naayagar >aavar - he is the mother for all this world and galaxies, also the head or >father of all clan - [see the gender goes put - whether male or female - >for he is the mother, when said as father he then is male - mother means >female - what exactly he is? Both combined or neither - [now comes the >description by way of a rescue - nammaazhvaar paasuram - aaNum allan peNNum >allan, aliyum allan] > > vambavizhum thuzhaai maalai thOL mEl - the shoulders also carries the >vaijayanthee garlands - the thuLasee garlands. > > sem pavaLam ivar vaayin vaNNam - the red coral is the colour of his >mouth. > > ivaradhu uruvam sollil am pavaLaththiraLEyum oppar - just to describe >his body - then can call as a beautiful coral reef - [please note - first >it is gold hue - yellow, now coral red] > > see next - ivar vaNNam eNNil maa kadal pOnRu uLar - just to think of his >colour - he is like the big ocean - blue ocean - [colour changed from gold >yellow to red to blue] > > once more another colour - anjana maamalaiyEyum oppar - he is also like >the black hill of collerium -kaajal black- the black substance applied to >eyes to enhance beauty of the eyes. > > aNikezhu thaamaraiyanna kaNNum angaiyum pankayam - the eyes and the >palms are lotus > > How he came - anjiraip puLLUm onRu Eri vandhaar - he came on a bird as >his transport means. > Who is this - maal irum Olai maNaaLar- the sundharan who resids in >thirumaalirum sOlai, > > Or is it neermalaiyaar - that person living in thiruneermalai - near >chennai- > > Finally see the words- maNdi Or aalilaip paLLi koLLum maayar - sleeping >in a single leaf of the banyan tree covering the full leaf, such a magician >- he ate the whole world but lies in a small banyan leaf - is it not magic? > > - annamum kEzhalum meenumaaya aadhiyai naagai azhagiyaarai - > that old stuff which became the swan, the boar, and the fish - that >beautiful lady who is in naagai - the gender now in confusion - is it or >appears so - yes - once immersed into his beauty - all senses goes. So >rules do not apply there - so first a male - next azhagiyaar- a female >beauty- that is why even if he sees the breasts or thighs - it is welcome. > > You can decide whether it is ok if he looks at you like described here - >is it decency? Or want to feel shy - or all gone when he looks at. > Oh, what if somebody mocks at - for his kataaksham is more worth than >all these fragile words of common folks. So can I get that decent man's >look on me - kidaikkumaa andha decent nOkku on my chest, achO oru >azhagiyavaa - krishNa krishNa the beauty. > > Dhasan > > Vasudevan m.g. > > > > > azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > > > Sponsor > Links > > > ramanuja/ > > b.. > ramanuja > > c.. Terms of >Service. > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:59:34 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >Fw: AchArya Hrhdayam 180-Eighth ten concluded > > >- >nsp >ramanuja ; oppiliappan ; vanamamalai >Friday, March 12, 2004 7:09 AM >Fw: AchArya Hrhdayam 180-Eighth ten concluded > > > >- >nsp >ramanuja ; oppiliappan ; vanamamalai >Friday, March 12, 2004 7:00 AM >AchArya Hrhdayam 180-Eighth ten concluded > > > >AchArya Hrdhayam SUthram 226-8 > >THE EIGHTH TEN > >prApAika parar > >"swa sAdhana, sAthyasthar, iru karaiyAgamal maNNavarum, vAnavarum, >nannumathaiyEa kuRikkoNmin vuLLathenRu prApaigaparar AkkugiRAr ettAm >pathil" > >Generally the means and the end are two different ones. It was also >considered that dhivya-dhEsam and the Lord may be so considered. However, >what does AzhwAr say in this regard in the eighth ten? > >Those who follow him and his methods need not have two different ones, as >seen above. What is AzhwAr 's method?. >he deems that,once we approach the divine feet of the Lord at >thiru-k-kadith-thAnam- all our miseries vanish. The souls of both the >worlds - vAnavargaL and maNNavargaL-- are seeking Him as refuge. His divine >feet is easily accessible. Hence, think this diivine feet and merge both >means and the end as one, is the advice to us by AzhwAr in this ettAm >pathu. Whatever was suggested in the seventh ten il.e. dhivya-dhEsam was >prescribed as the end earlier. The same is being considered as the means >also, thus combining both into one and making srEvasihNavites as >prApAika parar > >pAsuram-s > >Once we apporach the Lord at thiru-k-kadithAnam all our miseries vanish. > >"thiru-k-kadith-thAnathai, yEtha , nillA kuRikkoNmin idarEa" 8-6-6; > >Both the entities in that world and the souls of this world approach Him. > >"maN viN muzhudhum aLandha voN thAmarai, >maNNavar thAm thozha, vAnavar thAm vandhu, >nannu thirukkadith thAna nagarEa" 8-6-7; > >Hence, seek Him as refuge. He is easily accessible. You need not have two >different matters for means and end. Insrtead combine this at the feet of >Lord of thiru-k-kadith-thAnam and become >prApAika parar > >is the ultimate advice by AzhwAr in this ettAm pathu- eighth ten. > >Eighth ten concluded. > >(to be continued) >vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 > Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:41:38 -0700 > Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan >Re: Question - Prapatti > >Dear Madhusudhanan, > >Neither prapatti nor the formal practice of Bhakthi Yo:ga can assure >anyone of mo:ksha. Mo:ksha is solely the gift of the Lord Himself, out >of His Boundless Compassion, and only at a time when He feels that an >invidual is ready for it. > >The challenge with Bhakthi Yo:ga is that it can only belong to a few, >namely qualified Brahmin males who are well-suited to live a life of >strict discipline, meditation, and practice; those with the tenacity to >be able to forsake material comforts and wordly obligations and focus >only on the goal of achieving salvation, despite the knowledge that such >salvation can only be given at the time the Lord feels that one is >ready. Needless to say, this path is filled with many obstacles and >hardships, and is virtually impossible in this day and age. >Consequently, prapatti is afforded to everyone, irrespective of race, >caste, or gender, as the only method for one seeking Connection to the >Divine. > >It is important to note that the term "method" is being used only for >description's sake, because prapatti is not a ritual or some sort of >step-by-step process that has clear-cut guidelines and specific >requirements. Nor can we truly say that it even has a specific goal. >It is instead a realization, an awakening, if you will, in which one >realizes that all that we are, all that we experience, all that we know >and love, is but a gift of the Divine, and has Him Alone to which it >must owe its very existence. This awareness makes us realize that ours >is just to revel at just how much Love He must feel for each and every >one of us to provide us with all of this without condition. What else >can one do at this point but love in return, becoming simple receptacles >to His Grace and instruments to His Good? > >Such a realization, such a profound awakening, cannot happen without >God's Grace, either, which comes to us in the form of the Acha:rya, >under whose guidance we place ourselves through the sacrament of >panchasamska:ram. It is he who prays to the Lord to give us the right >mood of humility and servitude such that we can know Peace and Joy in >His Loving Hands. Since it is really the Acha:rya who is "doing all the >work" in praying and interceding on our behalf, it could be said that we >should be less concerned for prapatti as we should be for serving our >Acha:rya in gratitude for all that he is doing for us. And, indeed, as >one of our great works, Sri: Vachana Bhu:shanam tells us, if there >really is a guaranteed method for achieving mo:ksha, it is serving the >Acha:rya with faith and love. > >I hope this helps. > >Ramanuja dasan >Mohan > > > >k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > >>From my understanding the criterion required for Prapatti and > >eventually Moksha are: > > > >1. Devotion only to Sriman Narayana > >2. Refrain from Bhaagvadh Abacharaam > > > >Correct me if I am wrong, but because of the lord's "Daya" > >Gunaa "anyone" can get Prapatti done. > > > > > >So my question then: > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 > Sun, 14 Mar 2004 06:43:52 +0000 (GMT) > s v <sunvar01 >Re: Forgiveness > >Dear Mohan and Madhusudhanan, > >Adiyen Varadan would like to add few comments on what >is dharma, how to find out one's dharma, how to >practise and also on the question on forgiveness. > >1. Dharma means one's own nature i.e actions in >accordance with one's nature. > >2. There are two aspects - svadharma (own nature) and >paradharma (opposed to one's own nature) and Bagavad >Gita emphatically declares one to do svadharma >and to eschew paradharma. > >3. The first verse of Gita starts with dharma and the >last verse ends with mama (mine). So what one's dharma >is, how to do etc is what the whole Gita about. > >4. Also there the Lord says - dharma virudhho >bhoodeshu kamosmi baradharshaba - I am the desires not >opposed to dharma, in the beings (Ch 7 - 11) > >5. What is an ideal dharma ? - in Isavasya Upanishad >it is said if one does not realise God in this life >the whole life is - mahathi vinashti - supreme waste > >So whatever profession we do - the ultimate goal >should be realisation of God. One can also have >recourse to Chapter 12 in Gita where Lord beautifully >narrates the sequence of spiritual disciplines in >verses 8 to 11. > >6. Now coming to the specific question - forgiveness >is dharma but is difficult to practice - > >Patience, forgiveness is considered a virtue (it is >one the qualities of bakta - Gita Ch 12 - 13). > >Mark Twain beautifully elucidates that quality - >forgiveness is the fragrance that violet (a flower) >releases when the foot crushes it. > >The problem in its practise could be due to : > >our attachment / identification with the body, mind or >intellect. We develop inferiority complex with respect >to our body or mind or intellect if we forgive. So >getting rid of such attachments could provide some >solution. > >Forgiveness - may be easier to practise - if we raise >our selves - go higher (spiritually) so that we depend >less on the external world for our happiness. > >If by not fogiving it would benefit beings in general >(not for selfish interest) or establish dharma then >that time it can be given up (reminding us with the >declaration - hate the sin not the sinner). > >So a proper intellect would help to decide on a given >situation - to forgive or not to forgive. To develop >the intellect we need to study, reflect and practice >spiritual knowledge on a daily / regular basis. > >Adiyenikku adiyen, Varadan > > --- Madhuri and Mohan <m_raghavan >wrote: > Dear Sri Madhusudhanan, > > > > From what I have learned, sa:stra defines dharma > > as - dhriyathe: > > dha:rayathe: ithi dharmaha - dharma is something > > that both is to be > > supported and which supports us. There is no single > > word, no hard and > > fast set of rules or codes of conduct, that can > > define what dharma is; > > it is only to be practiced, it really cannot be > > taught. While it is > > built upon the spirit of the ideals of Ve:da, the > > practice of dharma is > > fluid, varying from individual to individual, > > experience to experience, > > and from condition to condition. But, if anything > > were to define it, it > > could be said that it involves patience and > > introspection, such that we > > can clearly and objectively observe the conditions > > around us, and > > respond in ways such that some positive benefit will > > result. > > > > Our acha:ryas use the exampe of water in describing > > dharma in > > practice. In its essence, water remains constant. > > But, it assumes the > > color and shape of the container in which it is > > placed. Similarly, a > > good human being must seek to live a life of service > > to the Divine as is > > one's True Nature, and express this by willing to > > respond in appropriate > > ways that are suited to varying conditions and > > personalities. In the > > case of our dealing with fellow human beings, to > > some patience and > > forgiveness must shown, to others strenth and > > sometimes even force must > > be shown, and still to others love and nurturing > > must be offered. But, > > all these actions or emotions should have behind > > them the overarching > > ideal that it will bring some benefit to the other > > person(s) involved. > > > > Consequently whether we individually forgive or not > > forgive someone is > > not as important as whether or not our response > > brings some spiritual > > benefit to him/her. > > > > Experience and practice is the best way to > > understand this. I hope this > > helps. > > > > Ramanuja dasan > > Mohan > > > > > > > > k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > > > >Dear all, > > > > > >I apologize if this question is out of context. > > > > > >With my limited knowledge and reading I understand > > that "Forgiveness > > >is Dharma"; but to follow this in practice is > > extremley difficult. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > > > azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > > > Links > > > > > > ramanuja > > > > > > > > >______________________ > India Insurance Special: Be informed on the best policies, services, >tools and more. >Go to: http://in.insurance./licspecial/index.html > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 7 > Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:06:30 +0530 > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam >Gaganagiri Muni. > >Dear Smt. Sumithra Varadarajan, > >Your devoted serialising of the >Gaganagiri Muni Guru paramparA prabhAvam-45 (Twenty-second Jeeyer contd.) > "Sumithra Varadarajan" > >is highly informative and therefore valuable to the sampradaayam. I do >trust you will think of issuing it in a book form, of course, closely >edited for language and arrangement. > >aDiyEn rAmAnuja-dAsan, >T.S. Sundara Rajan, >in Srirangam. > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 8 > Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:18:07 +0530 > nsp <aazhwar >AchArya Hrhdayam 181-9th Ten Inroduction > >AchArya Hrdhayam sUthram 228 > >THE NINTH TEN > >maraNamAnAl vaikuntham > >The Lord does not have any needs. He has got everything fully fulfilled. >AndAL also says in the 28th thiruppAvai -kuRai onRum illAdha gOvindhA. The >Lord who has got everything , rescues one and all, when they are in >distress. He helps in emergency. He is the ultimate refuge when problems >surface. He is the one to be sought in crisis. Hence, His quality is termed >as 'Abath sagathvam' in this onbadhAm pathu. > >EArlier, it was observed that the Lord Almighty had displayed the nature of >the soul to AzhwAr who also talked on this aspect,after realising it. What >is the use of this? to act accordingly. Hence, AzhwAr desired the soul's >nature -doing service at the divine feet of the Lord, immediately. There >was a delay. The dealy accentuated the agony. The Lord gave a date for >this. He assured that the final result will be granted to AzhwAr at the end >of the physique of AzhwAr - 'indhach sarErathin mudivilEa pEARu thappAdhu' >--Salvation shall be granted to you at the finish of the journey of this >body. > >Having got this assurance, AzhwAr turned his eyes towards those who had >still not reformed from his counselling and prescribed them appropriate >means according to their capability. That is onbadhAm pathu. > >maraNamAnAl vaikuntham > >(to be continued) >vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 9 > Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:56:17 +0530 > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv >RE: hey decent man > >Dear sri padmanabhan swami > >thank you for the thiruiruththam and ashta buyakaram references on the same >context of our decent man krisNa having a amorous look at the nayakis. >On this ashtabuyakaram paasuram referred by you, I wrote the following, of >course with a different outlook. >but that reference is quite nice. thought will share with all, since i >recall this may be in malaola net groups then [may be 1999]. > >quote -- >Dear Srivaishnava perunthagaiyeer, > >In the thiru ashtabujakaram group of paasurams, the last line reads >'attabuyakaraththEn enRarE' in the 4000 divya prabandam books (2 books >published by different persons) I have. But Srimaan Madhavakkannan Swamy >(MK) has mentioned attabuyakaraththaan. Please advise me, if, I have to >correct both the books for any printing mistake, and if I am wrong. > >Attabuyakaraththaan is one residing in the place called attabuyakaram. >Further attabuyakaraththaan- avan -III person - a sort of anniyaththanam - >separation is inherent in this addressing. Whereas, if, it is addressed as >attabuyakaraththEn, immediately honey is in the tongue. Even while >pronouncing the word, an intimacy develops. 'KaNNamma enRa pEr sollum >pothilE enthan naavilE amudhu ooruthE' says a krishna baktha who enjoyed >kannan as kannamma, as his ardent lover. > >Also a thought went like this- in kongu tamil dialect, words end as 'enna >solluthEn' etc for the first person while talking. So the poet might have >written as though the Lord uses the same dialect as kongu locals speak. But >this kshetram is not in Erode or Darmapuri district, but in Kancheepuram >where the dialect is clear. So no chance for the poet to use such a >dialect. > >The lord answers the vanchi, parakaala naayaki (PN), as I am the thEn. >Because she is in love, He is the sudha rasam or madhu rasam for her. >Perhaps, he only said attabuyakaraththaan only but she heard it as thEn >(because of kaathanmai) and recorded in the paasuram as thEn. > >The colour confusion for PN is very much prevalent in this kshetram also. > iruNda ambutham pOnRu > amchudar pOnRu > alai kadal pOnRu > karunkadal pOnRu > pOthavizh kaayaam poo neelam > punaintha mEgam > kaaviyoppaar > kadalEyumoppaar >According to the mental faculty at the moment, the colour of the Lord is >also changes for PN. The bakthaas can link the 'kaakkai chiraginilE >nandalala' for added taste here. > >thanjam ivarkku en valaiyum nillaa nenjamum thammathE sinthiththErku >vanji marungul nerunga nOkki vaai thiranthu onRu paniththathu uNdu >nanjam udaiththivar nOkkum nOkkam naan ivar thammai ariya maattEn >anjuvan ivar aar kol enna attabuyakaraththEn enRaarE. > >Just do a little readjustment of words in this paasuram. Then it is really >thEn, honey. When she heard the name attabuyakaraththEn, the body bent in >prostration and in love, with the idea of taking saraNaagati -thanjam >ivarkku ena vaLaiyum (en -ena -the poetic license to shorten). > >The basic character of the mind is nicely described as nillaa nenjam. It >will not stick to one thought and be there at least for few seconds. It >will jump immediately to another. So, it is nillaa nenjam. Here Arjunaa's >words are on the mind -the manam is worth considering. >chanchalam hi mana: krshna pramathi balavad druDam >thasyaaham nigraham manyE vaayOriva sudushkaram - 6 - 34 > >Hey krishnaa, the mind is wavery in nature, shaky to its core, strong >basically. I consider, to control this mind, it is difficult like >controlling the wind. So nillaa nenjam. > >But this nillaa nenjamum sinthithErku thammathe. Since PN is always >thinking about attabuyakaraththEn, she is qualified to call herself as >sinthiththErku. Since the thoughts are on him the nillaa nenjam has >surrendered to attabuyakaraththEn - so thammathE. So she declares my mind >though wavery in nature is already fixed on him. So first it is bodily >saranaagati - next mentally surrendered. > >Next she decalres 'vanji marungul nerunga nOkki vaai thiranthu onRu >paNiththathu uNdu' - he came very near me and said one thing- what is that? >- simple- the acceptance of the saranaagati and assurance of the moksham >-it cannot be said openly you see - so nerunga nOkki vaai thiranthu onru >paNiththathu. > >After that ' ivar nokkum nanjam udaiththu - his paarvai is having poison - >towards whom? - those who are desirous of doing harm to his bhagavathaas >like PN. She has realised that his paarvai is with kaarunyam to her but at >the same time opponents to her etc have to be afraid of. Is it not said >that narasimhan with all his fury towards hiraNyakasibu was at the same >time having kaaruNyam to prahlaada who was also standing in the same place. >You may wonder both are possible at the same time. But proof is available >in the narasimha avathaaram. > >naan ivar nokkam thannai ariya maattEn- athanaal anjuvan. I do not his idea >or aim, why suddenly he sees like this (with nanjam). As a result of this >ignorance on his nOkkam- anjuvan, otherwise I am not at all afraid, because >he has identified himself to me as attabuyakaraththEn. > >Any doubts about who issues the acceptance chit for prapatti- visit >attabuyakaram and realise for yourself. Already Srimaan Murlidhar >Rangaswamy has said 'tad vishno: paramam padam sadaa pascyanti sooraya' in >attabuyakaram. > >Enjoy the thEn by reading once more Dasan Vasudevan M.G. > >unquote >Dhasan > >MGVasudevan > > > > > nsp [sMTP:aazhwar] > > Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:32 PM > > ramanuja; oppiliappan > > Cc: M.G.Vasudevan > > Re: [ramanuja] hey decent man > > > > Dear shri vAsudEvan swAmi, > > > > AzhwAr descriptions of amourous glances on a maiden can never be more >precise. This so because, she has been subject to such looks. > > > > The words "She doesnt mind such glances but is worried that her mother >will see it" has provoked me into talking a pAsuram from thiru-virutham > > "kayalO! numa kaNgaL enRu kaLiRu vinavi niRREr, > > ayalOr aRiyilum, Edhenna vArthai..." thiru virutham 15 > > > > The damsel tells it to the person who had actually come in search of >elephant but expresses the opinion that her eyes are like fish. She >immediately responds that " What are you talking. What will happen if >others hear it?" one interpretation is that she does not mind it but is >only worried about the society. That is thiru virutham . > > > > As far as thiru mozhi is concerned I always regard the atta puyakaram >thiru mozhi and this thiru nAgai thiru mozhi as similar. Somehow, both >rings the same tone. A sample. > > > > "vanji marungul nerunga nOkki, vAi thiRandhu onRu paNithadhu vuNdu, > > nanjam vudaithu ivar nOkkum nOkkam..." periya thiru mozhi 2-8-9 > > > > The looks are close to the middle portion of the girl-idai-- it is >venomous, is the excalamation by AzhwAr. That is again a compliment given >by parakAla nAyaki towards the Lord for His scrutiny of AzhwAr's physical >profile. How is that? > > > > By the way "ivaL vAyil nal vEdham" is a suggestion that one should >indulge in good vEdic portions-primarily the talk of the Lord and His >auspicious qualities-bhagawadh vishayam.sAma vEdham, purusha sUktham and >even thiru-voi-mozhi can be considered so. Is it not? > > > > rAmAnuja dhAsan > > vanamamalai padmanabhan > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 10 > Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:00:00 +0530 > "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv >who are these aazhvaars > >Dear sri vaishNava perunthagaiyeer, > >Some time back there was a question in the lists who were these aazhvaars >[may be few months back also] and the answer was also given by many learned >bhagavathaas [not me for I do not know, then, the answer]. After learning >the answers thanks to the lists, I had the opportunity to go through some >simple tamil krithis. > >One struck me, which I want to share with you, all, with few points added >by me as comments. This krithi is in raagaa aarabhi in thaaLam aadhi > >Pallavi: >oru vazhi mattumaa kaattinaai uppiliappaa >pala vazhi kaatti adhil naalaayiram vazhi thandhaai -- oru > >meaning: [or a translation into English as the lines are in simple tamil] >oh my lord uppili appa - the lord residing in thiruk kudandhai or thiru >viNNagar - how many ways have you shown, is it limited to only one route to >realize you, NO my dear, you showed several thousands of ways, in that >specifically 4000 routes to us. > >Point by MGV: to visualize the lord or learn about him and then to realize >him the routes are several - again shown by him only such as > - different yOgaas like karma, gnaana, bhakthi, as stated in srimadh >bhagavath geethaa > - prapaththi [the fundamental or basic tenet of sri vaishNava >sampradhaayam] in same geethaa, > - naama sankeerthanam for which this krithi also helps to sing his - that >oppiliappan's glory. > - Specifically the composer wants to glorify the "4000 routes" - the route >of 4000 dhivya prabhandham - for each verse is a veritable source of joy - >in particular, for me, if the verse is about my krishNa. > >[please do not start an argument whether naama sankeerthanam will grant >mOksham etc for I am not advocating here which is superior, which is >inferior or useless etc but just mention as a way to learn about him. >Please do not mistake me where is the need not such a note - for - my >experience is bad - in particular, when I write some thing on some krithis >from the musical world]. > >anupallavi: >vizhi malarndha naaL mudhal un mozhi aRiyEnE >mozhi aRindha pin unadhu thani vazhi maRandhilanE| -- oru > >meaning: dear lord, soon after I opened my eyes in this world I did not >know your language. When I realized or learnt your language I do not miss >or forget your exclusive route [to realize you - the route of prapaththi] > >point by MGV: as long as I did not get the guru kataaksham [or to be more >specific aachaarya kataaksham] my eyes were closed - not the physical eyes >which open as the child grows - but the eyes of wisdom - the gnaanak >kaNgaL. Once I got the initiation or the opening of gnaana eyes through the >aachaarya, I did not miss the route - means I am firm on this - here is the >route and the guide is there and the realization of the final destination >is very near. > >Like thirumangai aazhvaar says "soozh punaR kudanthaiyE thozhudhu en >naavinaal uyya naan kaNdu koNdEn naaraayaaNa ennum naamam" [1-1-2 periya >thirumozhi], being directly given by HIM, here also the composer says I got >that 4000 ways through HIM only, from same being oppiliappan of same thiruk >kudanthai, given by these aazhvaars. > >Who are these aazhvaars who gave these 4000 ways, may be a doubt, which may >crop up. That is cleared in charaNam. See below. > >charaNam: >aazhndhe poNa munivargaL aazhvaargaL un >amsangalaai boomiyil avathaarangaL avargaL >vamsangaLE aruLich cheyal aachaarya purushargaL em >aRivukkettaamal pOgum abaayam vandhidaamalE - oru > >meaning: the rishis and munis of yester years were the aazhvaars who came >here to this world, immersed themselves in the enjoyment of you. They came >here as your parts [amsam means parts] or personification of you [amsam >also means personification]. While leaving they left their wisdom with our >aachaarya purushaas - the glorified gurus through their grace. This is done >mainly to keep the continuity of flow of knowledge, which otherwise may not >reach us - to avoid that danger - you have shown 4000 ways through them oh >oppiliappaa. > >Point: Who were the aazhvaars? - Very simply answered. Those immersed >themselves in the knowledge about HIM. Not only that, they were the rishis >and munis, who did lot of penance to realize him, once realized they did >not rest with their laurels, in next birth came to this world, here as >aazhvaars to share that joy of having realized him with common folks like >us, also to show that 4000 ways. > >After a period showing the way, they left their knowledge through these >aachaaryaas who carried that lamp of wisdom, of realization of him, to >subsequent generations. Why all these efforts? Mainly to show the way to us >all - otherwise there will be the danger of people like us not realizing >HIM or just miss HIM, or being misguided in finding him etc. > >Summing up, this krithi is a very special in giving out who are the >aazhvaars. Also once the gnaana eyes are opened, there will no more >forgetting or missing HIM is made clear. > >Now the suspense is released. Who is the composer of this wonderful krithi. > >Dear bhakthaas, it is none other than our dear Dr.V.Sadagopan's sister Mrs. >Padma veeraraaghavan. This is also available in karnatik site being >maintained by Mrs. Rani at http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/ > >Dhaasan > >Vasudevan m.g. > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 11 > Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:23:30 +1100 > <purohit >Re: Forgiveness > > >Adiyen > >"Forgiveness" in Sanskrit is ksha-maa - ksha meaning to decrease and maa >meaning to measure. When we forgive someone, it is not for their sake but >for ours. As long as we do not forgive wrongs and offences committed >against >us we remain connected to that person karmically - there is a >"runa-anubandha". When we forgive, we decrease the measure of our >connection >with that individual and so liberating ourselves from karmic connection and >future suffering. So forgiving necessarily is accompanied by forgetting! > >Dasoham > >Sri Ram > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 12 > Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:13:01 +0530 > SundaraRajan Tirumanjanam <try_surangam >Writing to communicate. > >Dear Sri Sriram, > >I am glad you raised an important point regarding the standard manner of >writing of Sanskrit and Tamil words in Roman alphabet. > >The Tamil language being an original and, differing as it does generically >from Sanskrit , it does not need the letter-defined phonemics of Sanskrit. > For this reason, I consider your statement <Unfortunately Tamil is the >corrupting influence etc> as unfortunate. > >We are now speaking of language-skills in general. The corruption (as you >describe it) does not lie with the Tamil language, per se, but it issues >from the Tamil-dealer politicians of to-day who have so consistently >promoted a pompous illiteracy as has left every single young person (who >could be 50 or less to-day) incapable of speaking, reading, or writing >Tamil itself properly, and to any purpose whatsoever. I trust you would >appreciate that the average Tamil person commits greater offences in Tamil >itself than he does in the Sanskrit language. > >The Tamils have denied to themselves the additional nourishment of the >Sanskrit stream, and have become total imbeciles in terms of language >skills. Their use of English is so hilarious as could cure the most >confirmed melancholic-and- depressive manic of their malady. (For this >reason, the Tamil language will never have a proper etymological >dictionary, and the personnel of the Tamil Nadu government outfit set up >years ago can do nothing other than draw their salary from public funds, or >anything more precious than swatting of flies and enjoying their own >regular burpings !) > >The Sanskrit which you have 'in the market' to-day is the gibberish which >supplies (thro the pulp press dispensers, jnAna-this, jnAna-that) the >emotional props to the decadent brahmin (whose conceit is so deep and >absurd as to believe that he is 'born' into Sanskrit) for mumbling thro one >or the other of his uncomprehended rites, sandhyA, pitR-tarpaNam, the >numerous planet-placating (graha-preeti) stOtram etc. This kind of pathetic >pseudo-Sanskritism of the brahmin (who truly cannot distinguish between the >family-planning handout in Hindi from a text of upanishad-bhAshyam) is as >deplorable as the pseudo-Arabic complacency which the Tamil Muslim draws >from his unnecessary Urdu jabber. [Just think of the great Tamil scholars >we had in the Muslim community !] > >You cannot properly Roman-write a Tamil or Sanskrit word unless you know >the Tamil or the Sanskrit word itself properly. The popular brahmin >scholars indulge in ignorant prattle of 'janmA', 'karmA', 'nAmA' all the >time, whereas it should be 'janmam', 'karmam', 'nAmam' (when used in >Tamil), which is how they are rendered in our precious 'aruLi-c-cheyal'. >The 'sEvA' monthly steadily refers to some entity called 'bramhA', which >seems to be an assault on the intended 'brahma' or 'brahmA'. Here is >illiteracy with conviction. > >What is the point in labouring to communicate on 'sampradAya' works when >the reader cannot be certain about how to read basically the bare words >that the writer has written ? On one of my visits to the U.S.(when I had >not carried my core books), I went to a well-known vaishNava website >(administered by a brilliant young scholar I admire) and took a print-out >of Sri vEdAntAchArya's hymn, sudarSanAshTakam. The roman-writing of this >precious work was execrable and I had merely wasted my time in reaching >for it and trying to read it. > >The way out is happily available to us for writing non-English words in >Roman. The non-English words / names are spelt as per the Harvard-Kyoto >scheme dispensing with diacriticals, and this is reportedly adopted in the >Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon. Roughly speaking, here the Upper case >represents accenting or voicing (rAma, aruL, pallANDu, aRam, ANDAL, kaNNan) >and 'h' is added for aspiration (sukham, bhAGyam, rAGhavan, atharva vEdam). > The three Sanskrit sibilants can be written as ~ sahasram, Sree, >purusha. There are minor innovations to take care of special Sanskrit >(RGvEdam, kRshNa, dRshTAntam) and Tamil phonemes. > >aDiyEn rAmAnuja-dAsan, >tiru-manjanam sundara rAjan, >in SriranGam. > >- ><ramanuja> ><ramanuja> >Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:59 PM >[ramanuja] Digest Number 735 > >Message: 2 > Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:56:42 +1100 > <purohit >Re: Standardisation of Spelling > >Dear Bhaktargal > >we really need to start paying more attention to spelling >as well as the pronounciation of Sanskrit names and terms. > >Unfortunately Tamil is the corrupting influence because of the lack of >aspirated and hard consonants. > >For example: INDRA in Sanskrit is written as Indhira, Indira, Intra, >Inthra, Intira, Inthira in Tamil. RUDRA is written as Ruthira, Ruthra, >Rutra, Rutira, etc. etc. > >All our sampradaya terms are dealt with in the same >lackadaisical method. > >This is very confusing as well as annoying showing a lack of attention to >detail. Kumbhakarna intended to ask for IndrAsana but said NidrAsana >instead and got a different result. > >Some pronunciations by Tamil speaking pandits can also be hillariously >funny:- I have heard on numerous occasions pandits saying "dArA phalam" >instead of "tArA-balam"!! TArA-balam means the "strength of a certain >contellation - dArA-phalam means "the fruit of a wife". > >Tamil speakers need to be made aware of these problems and to be encouraged >to attend a few elementary classes in Sanskrit pronunciation. > >Adiyen >Sriram > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 13 > Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:46:21 +0530 > "Gunaseelan v" <gunav >RE: Question - Prapatti > >Sri: >Dear Mohan >Great explanation about prapatti and the means of attaining Moksham , Botha >upAyama and upEyam is He only , none of our act can attain the Moksham, >including prapatti, and as you said even the act of doing prappty is also >not ours its His, "athuvum avanathu innarulE". >Also I would like to interpret your message >"it could be said that we >should be less concerned for prapatti as we should be for serving our >Acha:rya in gratitude for all that he is doing for us" > >While our Acharya ManavAla mAmunigal has dwelt in depth about the Acharyan >roles in Upadesa rathina mAlai,but doing service back to him is it out of >gratitude ? I would like to differ, you can never match by any Service to >the Acharyan to the Mokham he is getting it for the Chethanan, as the later >is so invaluable. So doing service to Achrayn is the Jeevatham's swaroopam, >Here I mean , while doing service to him you should have such mind set that >you are paying back to him, as you also said earlier you should serve the >Acharyan with love and affection only, any other mind set may cause breach >of Chethanan's Swaroopam, the same is applicable to Sriman Narayanan also. > >Hoe I am clear > >Adiyen >Gunaseelan > > >Madhuri and Mohan [m_raghavan] >Sunday, March 14, 2004 8:12 AM >ramanuja >Re: [ramanuja] Question - Prapatti > > >Dear Madhusudhanan, > >Neither prapatti nor the formal practice of Bhakthi Yo:ga can assure >anyone of mo:ksha. Mo:ksha is solely the gift of the Lord Himself, out >of His Boundless Compassion, and only at a time when He feels that an >invidual is ready for it. > >The challenge with Bhakthi Yo:ga is that it can only belong to a few, >namely qualified Brahmin males who are well-suited to live a life of >strict discipline, meditation, and practice; those with the tenacity to >be able to forsake material comforts and wordly obligations and focus >only on the goal of achieving salvation, despite the knowledge that such >salvation can only be given at the time the Lord feels that one is >ready. Needless to say, this path is filled with many obstacles and >hardships, and is virtually impossible in this day and age. >Consequently, prapatti is afforded to everyone, irrespective of race, >caste, or gender, as the only method for one seeking Connection to the >Divine. > >It is important to note that the term "method" is being used only for >description's sake, because prapatti is not a ritual or some sort of >step-by-step process that has clear-cut guidelines and specific >requirements. Nor can we truly say that it even has a specific goal. >It is instead a realization, an awakening, if you will, in which one >realizes that all that we are, all that we experience, all that we know >and love, is but a gift of the Divine, and has Him Alone to which it >must owe its very existence. This awareness makes us realize that ours >is just to revel at just how much Love He must feel for each and every >one of us to provide us with all of this without condition. What else >can one do at this point but love in return, becoming simple receptacles >to His Grace and instruments to His Good? > >Such a realization, such a profound awakening, cannot happen without >God's Grace, either, which comes to us in the form of the Acha:rya, >under whose guidance we place ourselves through the sacrament of >panchasamska:ram. It is he who prays to the Lord to give us the right >mood of humility and servitude such that we can know Peace and Joy in >His Loving Hands. Since it is really the Acha:rya who is "doing all the >work" in praying and interceding on our behalf, it could be said that we >should be less concerned for prapatti as we should be for serving our >Acha:rya in gratitude for all that he is doing for us. And, indeed, as >one of our great works, Sri: Vachana Bhu:shanam tells us, if there >really is a guaranteed method for achieving mo:ksha, it is serving the >Acha:rya with faith and love. > >I hope this helps. > >Ramanuja dasan >Mohan > > > >k_madhusudhan22 wrote: > > >>From my understanding the criterion required for Prapatti and > >eventually Moksha are: > > > >1. Devotion only to Sriman Narayana > >2. Refrain from Bhaagvadh Abacharaam > > > >Correct me if I am wrong, but because of the lord's "Daya" > >Gunaa "anyone" can get Prapatti done. > > > > > >So my question then: > > > > > > > > > > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > > Links > > > > > > > >*************************************************************************** >This message is proprietary to Future Software Limited (FSL) >and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it >is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information >and should not be circulated or used for any purpose other than for >what it is intended. > >If you have received this message in error, please notify the >originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, >you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, >copying, altering, or disclosing the contents of this message. >FSL accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from >the use of the information transmitted by this email including >damage from virus. >*************************************************************************** > > > >______________________ >______________________ > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > >------ > Links > > > > >------ > > _______________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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