Guest guest Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 > > Message: 2 > Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:23:54 -0000 > "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhann > Re: Digest Number 856 > > Dear Smt.Sumithra, > One phrase of Thirumangai Azhwar would suffice to > justify your point > on the sAtvika ahankAram. 'ninthanakkum kurippaagil > karkalaam kaviyin > porul thaane' explains it all, where Azhwar tells > perumal - 'hey, if > you are so interested, then come down as my disciple > and learn it > from me'. The ahankAram in sAtvika ahsankAram must > not be literally > understood as Self's arrogance. It is more of a > polite pride as > Smt.Sumithra had pointed out. Dear Sriman Narasimhan, I do not see either politeness or pride in that pASuram! Will you please elaborate more? Any kind of pride, whether polite or impolite, goes against your nature by which u are to be subservient to Him. Dasan Vishnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 Dear Sriman Vishnu, > Dear Sriman Narasimhan, > I do not see either politeness or pride in that > pASuram! Will you please elaborate more? That statement can't be anymore explicit. Asking the "all known" supreme to come down to learn from Azhwar himself, is where the pride is displayed. But, it is not out of arrogance. It is based on the relationship between Perumal and Azhwar. It is like a child who asks a mother to learn something from him. This should be understood within that context of the relationship and not outside of it. Smt Sumitra was also mentioning the same. The pride or arrogance must be defined as well as understood from within the context of the eternal relationship between us and perumal. If we try to generalize and demand and explanation outside the context we lose the ruchi in those statements and enter into the world of tharka(arguments). I apologize for this and mean no offense. Here is some reference to this pasuram that I found from an archive. http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/feb96/0005.html Sarva Aparaadhaan kshamasva. Adiyen, Ramanuja Dasan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Dear Sriman Narasimhan, Will you please give the pASuram number? Thirumangai AzhwAr gave ThirumantrArtham for which we have texts like mumukshuppadi, ashtaSlOkI. So no need for him to exhibit any kind of pride. Those learned in Tamil will give a different interpretation for the 11th pASurams in Periya Thirumozhi. So that cannot be brought in! We have to follow the folowing approach for learning Divyaprabandham. Kindly correct me if I am wrong: 1. Going by the accepted meaning of full pASuram as given in present Tamil/ Telugu/Kannada/English. 2. Correlating it with at least succeeding and preceding pASurams 3. Going thru vyAkhyAnams (as Smt Sumithra did for nAnmuhan - 3) if anything is understood to be supporting a) something needed for His krpA to act on us b) A little bit of freedom c) A little bit of ahankAram Our Thenkalai version of thirumantrArtham cannot be accepted if there is a relaxation in terms of a),b),c). Here commentaries help us in better understanding. I do not know Tamil (though Tamilian) and divyaprabandham. My guidelines are only for the interested starters. At least I should not mislead others. Dasan Vishnu ramanuja, "Lakshmi Narasimhan" <nrusimhann> wrote: > Dear Sriman Vishnu, > > Dear Sriman Narasimhan, > > I do not see either politeness or pride in that > > pASuram! Will you please elaborate more? > That statement can't be anymore explicit. Asking the "all known" > supreme to come down to learn from Azhwar himself, is where the pride > is displayed. But, it is not out of arrogance. It is based on the > relationship between Perumal and Azhwar. It is like a child who asks > a mother to learn something from him. This should be understood > within that context of the relationship and not outside of it. Smt > Sumitra was also mentioning the same. The pride or arrogance must be > defined as well as understood from within the context of the eternal > relationship between us and perumal. If we try to generalize and > demand and explanation outside the context we lose the ruchi in those > statements and enter into the world of tharka(arguments). I apologize > for this and mean no offense. > > Here is some reference to this pasuram that I found from an archive. > http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/feb96/0005.html > > Sarva Aparaadhaan kshamasva. > > Adiyen, > Ramanuja Dasan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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