Digest Number 856-pArathanthriya/bhOgyathaigaL

[Guest guest]

DEar Ms. nappinnai,

The discussion started with sAthvika ahankAram and has veered around to

question of' destroyal of shEshathvam'

 

I have been observing the discussion with keen interest. I submit my humble

understanding hereunder.

 

No, shEshathvam is not destroyed. If shEshathvam is destroyed subservience is

destroyed. Then what is destroyed as mentioned by one and all - azhikum pOdhu

mumUkshuppadi?

 

I am forced to take refuge again in AchArya Hrdhayam 21.

 

"shEshathva ,bhOgrthvam pOle anREA pArathanthriya bhOgyadhaigaL" 21 and

 

Nature of the souls:

shEshathvam: Three features i. Subservience to the Lord - shEshathvam.

gnAthruthvam: knowledge;

 

What is the result of this knowledge on the nature of soul?

a. The soul is capable of performing certain things independently - applying own

mind and thought.

b. performing things;

c. experiencing -anubavikkum thanmai- bhokthruthvam.

 

Defects in the nature of the souls: It is not enough for the soul to just

realise the nature mentioned hereinabove. The soul should also realise the

defects in the aforementioned nature.

What are these defects?

1.The fact that soul can do and is capable of applying mind and thought is a

defect. Even this independence is derived from the Lord. Therefore, such a

shEshathvam mixed with such independence is not pure. The shEshathvam bereft or

removed of such indpeendent nature is only pure.

 

2. The soul is capable of experiencing-anubavikkum thanmai (bhOghthruthvam).

However, these may result in experiencing certain acts which may not necessarily

be for the happiness of the Lord. This realisation will make the soul as the one

"experienced by the Lord" -anubavikkap paduginRa vasthu- bhOgyathai.

 

These defects persist in the state of shEshathvam.

 

Thus, pArathanthriyam is a state where shEshathvam's independence and

experiencing for own sake is destroyed or say removed.

 

Conclusion: In the state of pArathanthrium, thus, the defects of shEshathvam or

in the nature of the souls is destroyed. these are independence and experiencing

for one sake.

 

I hope my understanding is correct.

 

rAmAnuja dAsan

vAnamamalai padmanabhan

-

vaidhehi_nc

ramanuja

Friday, September 10, 2004 9:12 PM

[ramanuja] Re: Digest Number 856

 

 

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama:

 

Dear Vishnu & other devotees,

 

Humble praNAms to all. I have forgotten the question

itself with which this thread started! BTW, are there rAjasic and

tAmasic ahankAram(like sAthvik)??? Just curious to know:-) That's

all.

 

I thought(!!! I could be wrong but refer to SVB:160-168)

sEShatva(ananyArha) and pAratantrya go hand in hand. Just

as "sEShatva" has to be kept suppressed if it hampers the Lord's

pleasure, the other attribute "pAratantrya" should not also be

allowed to damp/lower the Lord's spirits. If the jIvAthma/subject is

unresponsive and behaves like a wood(in the name of dependence), it

will certainly divert/detract from the Lord's pleasure and thus

becomes an evil although "pAratantrya"(in the usual context) is the

anti-thesis of conceit and arrogance. When Srirama,after Ravana was

overthrown,wanted to see Sita, straight from her captivity(as she

was in her internment),Sita appeared before the Lord after a

refreshing bath! This literally made Srirama frown on her "snAnam

roSha janakam".

 

Again refer to SVB:71-72. pAratantrya will eliminate self-

effort, while sEShatva self-delight and self-enjoyment, provided

these two fundamental characteristics,which mark the essential

nature of the individual soul, are fully grasped and lived upto.

Then these two can be turned towards selfless service, rendered unto

the Lord, solely for His pleasure, with no tinge of personal egoism.

 

All errors in understanding SVB are mine. If a number

greater than Infinity exists, then "that many" obeisances(of mine)

to srI piLLai lOkAcArya. He blows my mind. I feel every aphorism

(sUtra) of SVB is a PhD topic. Such is the greatness of srI piLLai

lOkAcArya. Credit also goes to the devotees Sri Parthasarathy and

Sri vanamamali Padmanabhan. Plus, Sri Sridhar Srinivasan has already

nicely explained the position of sEShatva-pAratantrya.

 

AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam

dAsAnu dAsI

NC Nappinnai

 

 

> Respected Swami,

>

> How will we discuss, if we keep apologizing, saying our posts

> are "blabberings" and frequently writing "forgive"? May be

> some "sAttvika ahankAram" is needed:)

>

> All of us, including self, use words like SEshatvam, kainkaryam

etc.

> interchangeably. However, when it comes to SEshatvam vs

pAratantryam,

> we need to go into what the terms originally mean.

>

> I referred to Manavala MamunigaL's commentary for mumukshuppadi

and

> explanation of Sriman T.K.Gopaplacharya Swami. In that, Sriman

T.K.

> swami defines what is SEshatvam. He says it is remaining as

bhOgyam

> for PerumAL, like pushpam, chandanam etc.

>

> PirAtti's and other dEvIs' SEshatvam to PerumAL is explained in

SrI

> guNa ratna kOSam of Bhattar in similar terms (bhOgyA vAmapi

> nAntarIyakatayA pushpAngarAgai: samam...)

>

> Dasanudasan

> Vishnu

 

 

 

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

 

 

 

ramanuja/

 

b..

ramanuja

 

c..