alleged mention of vinAyaka worship in vaishNavite scriptures

[Guest guest]

srI kastUri rangan wrote

 

-----------

> Coming to our own pAncharatra agamas, jayakhya & sanatkumara

samhitas

> detail the worship of gaNesha with mula mantra ( with yantra too I

> believe) among other deities. It also gives details on installing

> murti of gaNesha in a vishnu shrine (a practice which died out and

> installing murtis of Azhwars & Acharyas appeared). I haven't looked

> at other agamas. So the statement that gaNapati worship is not part

> of Hinduism cannot be true.

------------

 

can you provide justification for the above paragraph? I would like

to know the following

 

(i) the exact verses in the jayAkhya & sanatkumAra

samhitas mentioning what you are quoting

(ii) What the "Worship" entails

(iii) whether the installation of the vinAyaka idol is a part of

the dEvatha installation around the temple, or a separate ritual

for vinAyaka

(iv) your data sources that lead you to say that the practice of

installation of divine vigrahas of AzvhArAchAryAs replaced what

used to be, in your opinion, a practice of installation of vinAyaka

in the temples.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

varadhan

[Guest guest]

Shri Varadhan wrote:

>

> can you provide justification for the above paragraph? I would like

> to know the following

>

> (i) the exact verses in the jayAkhya & sanatkumAra

> samhitas mentioning what you are quoting

> (ii) What the "Worship" entails

> (iii) whether the installation of the vinAyaka idol is a part of

> the dEvatha installation around the temple, or a separate ritual

> for vinAyaka

 

Few months back, in this very list, I requested information on this

same topic! The context was like this -- I had an argument with

somebody, in which I had claimed the following:

1. Vaishnavas had never worshipped an "elephant-faced" deity.

2. There was no evidence for Vishvaksena having an elephant-face.

Recalling from memory, he commanded an army of gajamukhas who formed

one fourth of his total army.

3. The thumbikkai azhwar stuff is a backdoor attempt to smuggle

vinayaka worship into vaishnavism.

 

In this course of the argument, I a reference to gaNesha worship in

jayakhya samhita was exchanged.

 

Unrelated to this, I stumbled another reference in "Vaisnavism: Its

Philosophy, Theology and Religious Discipline", by S. M. Srinivasa

Chari, where a mention anya devatas (including gaNesha, durga...) in

Sanatkumara samhita occured.

 

I skimmed through the originals, just enough to make sure that anya

devatas are indeed mentioned. The reference of anya devatas in

pancharatra samhitas is a topic I had intended to investigate, but

hadn't really gone deeper. I would be receiving couple of

pancharatra samhitas shortly. Given some time, I may be able to

consolidate all the references. Interested members can contact me

privately.

 

 

> (iv) your data sources that lead you to say that the practice of

> installation of divine vigrahas of AzvhArAchAryAs replaced what

> used to be, in your opinion, a practice of installation of vinAyaka

> in the temples.

>

 

This is a speculation of Shri SMS Chari. Having noting the non-

precedence of installing mUrtis of gurus & acharyas and having

observed the absence of anya-devata sannidhis in vishnu temples,

despite the references of the same in Vaishnava agamas, he should

have done a basic arithmetic. I have observed the amman sannidhi in

Tirukkovilur temple. It does not seem to have been an installation

as per agamas. I am open to correction on this.

 

Regards,

Kasturi Rangan .K

[Guest guest]

srI kastUri rangan wrote:

 

---

> This is a speculation of Shri SMS Chari. Having noting the non-

> precedence of installing mUrtis of gurus & acharyas and having

> observed the absence of anya-devata sannidhis in vishnu temples,

> despite the references of the same in Vaishnava agamas, he should

> have done a basic arithmetic. I have observed the amman sannidhi

in

> Tirukkovilur temple. It does not seem to have been an installation

> as per agamas. I am open to correction on this.

-----

 

The "amman" sannadhi in thiru-k-kOvilUr is that of vishNu durga.

 

The presence of this sannadhi is even mentioned in

thirunedundhaaNdakam - in the 7th paasuram (vaRpudaiya varai

nedunthOL).

 

This paasuram describes thiru-k-kOvilUr and its greatness.

One of the descriptions for thiru-k-kOvilUr is - "vindhai mEya

kaRpudaiya mada-k-kanni kaaval pooNda", the place which is

guarded by the spinster who has gnyAna (kaRpu, here), and who

does not give up (paRRiRRu viddadhu irukkai).

 

this kanni is the vishNu durga, who is none other than the yOga

mAyA of the Lord, and was born just befor KrishNa was born to

dEvaki (the child that flew from the hands of kamsa, and warned him).

 

the word vindhai mEya is also used to denote the place in where

vishNu durga performed tapas to be given the kainkaryam of

guarding a place of the Lord.

 

The above is clearly mentioned in the thirunedundhaaNdagam

vyAkhyaanam of svAmi periya vachchaan piLLai. Swami ES

Bhoovarahaachaariaar has gracefully blessed us with almost 250 hours

of word by word upanyAsam on thirnedundhaaNdagam commentary by

svaami periyavachchaan piLLai. This set is available from Vedics,

and has 15 CDs consisting of MP3 files, and costs $70 (+ $10 S&H).

Please see www.vedics.net for more details. I recommend this

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easy to listen to, and is appropriate for everyone.

 

aazhvaar emperumaanaar jeeyar thiruvadigaLE SaraNam.

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

varadhan

[Guest guest]

Shri Varadhan wrote --

> can you provide justification for the above paragraph? I would like

> to know the following

>

> (i) the exact verses in the jayAkhya & sanatkumAra

> samhitas mentioning what you are quoting

> (ii) What the "Worship" entails

 

Preliminary references:

sources:

1. Tantrasangraha (part 3), Yogatantra-granthamala volume 6, edited

by Dr. Ramaprasada Tripathý (Varanasi: Sampurnanand Sanskrit

Vishvavidyalaya, 1979).

2. jayAkhya saMhita; Baroda Sayajirao Gaekwad Oriental Library

Series; 1931.

 

 

7.44 onwards is a vidhi on gaNapati upAsana. The same patala has

worship of saraswati & kshetrapAla as well as vishvaksena (i.e.

vishvaksena is different from gaNapati).

 

referesthUlA~NgaM ekadamShTraM ca lamboDaraM gajAnanaM |

kesareShva~NgaShaTkaM ca patratrayagataM nyaset

 

dhyAyeccaMpaka varNAbhaM baddhapadmAsanaM dvija |

karnikAyAM tripatre.abje rakte ShaTkesare shubhe 7.44

(Allusion to gaNapati yantra)

 

Sanatkumara samhita 10.23-29 are the mantras recommended for the

worship of rudra. The vidhi is given as addition of pranava in the

beginning & namaH in the end for japa of rudra mantras. These

mantras are from maitrayaniya samhita, and a variation of these

occur in mahanarayana upanishad. If possible, I'll gather more

consolidated references.

 

Thanks & Regards,

Kasturi Rangan .K

[Guest guest]

shrI kasthUri rangan quoted from the sanatkumaara samhita

 

---begin quote

> Sanatkumara samhita 10.23-29 are the mantras recommended for the

> worship of rudra. The vidhi is given as addition of pranava in the

> beginning & namaH in the end for japa of rudra mantras. These

> mantras are from maitrayaniya samhita, and a variation of these

> occur in mahanarayana upanishad. If possible, I'll gather more

> consolidated references.

----

 

thanks for quoting this.

 

The following is my opinion only, and is not taken from any

authoritative sources.

 

On a preliminary look at it (from the version present on

granthamandira.org), it looks like the first portion of the 10th

chapter is a chapter on how to make different maalaas, and how to

purify the maalaas. The 10.23 - 10.29 you quoted above seems to be

mantras that are ordained to purify the mala.

 

There are m number of mantras/other things that our sruthis &

smrithis prescribe to purify n number of things. These

purification rituals do not constitute any "worship" per se.

 

I also wonder whether there are different versions of the

sanatkumaara samhitha.

 

I am not translating the slOkhAs given my inadequate knowledge of

samskrit. I will request a learned samskrit scholar I know of to

translate that for us.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

varadhan

[Guest guest]

shrI varadhan wrote ---

 

> On a preliminary look at it (from the version present on

> granthamandira.org), it looks like the first portion of the 10th

> chapter is a chapter on how to make different maalaas, and how to

> purify the maalaas. The 10.23 - 10.29 you quoted above seems to be

> mantras that are ordained to purify the mala.

 

Please look carefully at 23 - Having consecrated the mala, one has to

do a japa on manu. BTW, it is consecration and not simply a

purification (like the rules purification of cloth, silk, gold,

utensils in dharma sutras and manusmriti). Pay attention to 25 - "Add

praNava in the beginning and namaH in the end and do a japa of the

following" - This is an injunction to perform a japa, which I think,

very well falls in the realm of "worship". The subsequent rudra

mantras with variations are found in mahanArAyaNa itself -

"vAmadevAya namaH jyeshTAya namaH rudrAya namaH...." and ends with

rudra gayatri. This is followed by yet another injunction of doing a

japa on sadashiva by adding praNava & namaH in front & back.

 

So, the vidhi seems to be the japa of rudra mantras with the mala

after consecration.

 

Regards,

Kasturi Rangan .K