Sheshatwam and Parathanthryam

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Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

 

It gives adiyen immence satisfaction to learn so much from learned bhagavathas

mails..only regret being not able to contribute any thing due to inherent

ignorance in DIVYAPRABHANDAMS.Adiyen is telugu speaking and hence a handicap

even in understanding language let alone subtleness of the subject.However

bhagavathas mails uplifted adiyen so much and instilled confidence for which

adiyen is ever greatful.There are certain fundamentals which adiyen needs to

understand..Humanbeings are supposed strive for eliciting PERUMALS’ kripa is

what generally religions preach.Is this not swathanthryam as opposed to

Sheshatwam and parathanthryam and hence may be preaching not

correct.Otherwise.how these seemingly contradictory concepts are

reconciled..There must be shasthra pramanams cited by our purvacharyas,adiyen

would beg to know.Kindly parden adiyens ignorance ,if any sampradaya dosham

crept into my way of addressing my doubt.

 

Dasanudasan

Krishnamachary

 

 

 

 

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Respected Swamy Accept Dasans'Pranams

Happy to have known references cited as well as Vishnu swamis webcite Which

adiyen keeping in favourites list for constant refence and mananam purpose.

Adiyens main doubt is sheshtwam being natural to jiva why it does not

spontaneously express itself.Karma main reason cited which adiyen is mulling

over and probably lack of understanding is the block.adiyen is sure to benifit

from references given and baghavatas kripa

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

 

jayasartn <jayasartn wrote:

 

SrI:

 

Respected swamin,

As for your query, the swathanthiryam of the jiva is due to

ignorance, according to Ramanuja's philosophy, caused by karma and

purva-vasanas. What actually happened in the beginning when creation

took place in the very very distant past (assumed) when the jiva was

(?!) Infinite as the Barhman, is explained in the beginning of the

first chapter of Acharya Hrudhayam. I think the translation of this

is available in the net.

 

Secondly how the chetana gets to desire different fruits, the best

of which is moksha is explained in verse 7-16 of Gita. I request you

to kindly go through the series of mails "Wonder as worship -

jignAsu' by Sri MK Sudharshan that are being currently published in

Tiruvenkatam / Oppiliappan list.

 

The actual transcendance or regress which, though seem to happen by

one's own will (swathanthiryam)is actually happening by the Will of

god is explained in chapter 13, of Gita, 'Daivaasura samapad vibhaga

yogam".

 

Another aspect to be taken into consideration is verse 10-10 of gita

in which the Lord says that He gives Buddhi to the one whom He wants

to lift. In short Gita gives a lot of insight into this aspect that

answers your question. But ramanuja philosophy adheres to complete

dependence of the jiva on Brahman. That means swathanthiryam is

denied to the soul. But srivaishmavism is divided on finer aspects of

prapatti from the point of view of swathanthiryam. The sect to which

I belong, namely Thenkalai does not see any any scope for

swathanthiryam even in doing prapatti. We take pramanam from

Mumukshuppadi which says that if you say that you do praaptti that

amounta to ahamkaaram (I do etc). It is the Lord who gives you the

rakshanam. Elsewhere in the same grantham, it is said that the lord

does not discard the one who does prapatti on his own.(It is in this

vein, the Lord as Sriman Narayana gives delivarance to worshippers of

other Gods too. This has been made out in my mails to Sri BAlaji's

queries recently)

 

But on impartial analysis of the sookhthis without adherence to any

one sect's ideology, this writer had written some mails on 'free-will

and pre-determination'in the Bhakthi-list about a couple of years ago.

The inference that was arrived at was that there is absolutely no

freedom or swathanthiryam to the jiva.If needed I will forward those

mails from my file.

 

Regards,

jayasree saranathan.

 

ramanuja, vedantham chary

wrote:

>

> Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

>

> It gives adiyen immence satisfaction to learn so much from learned

bhagavathas mails..only regret being not able to contribute any

thing due to inherent ignorance in DIVYAPRABHANDAMS.Adiyen is telugu

speaking and hence a handicap even in understanding language let

alone subtleness of the subject.However bhagavathas mails uplifted

adiyen so much and instilled confidence for which adiyen is ever

greatful.There are certain fundamentals which adiyen needs to

understand..Humanbeings are supposed strive for eliciting PERUMALS'

kripa is what generally religions preach.Is this not swathanthryam as

opposed to Sheshatwam and parathanthryam and hence may be preaching

not correct.Otherwise.how these seemingly contradictory concepts are

this message have been removed]