Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan It gives adiyen immence satisfaction to learn so much from learned bhagavathas mails..only regret being not able to contribute any thing due to inherent ignorance in DIVYAPRABHANDAMS.Adiyen is telugu speaking and hence a handicap even in understanding language let alone subtleness of the subject.However bhagavathas mails uplifted adiyen so much and instilled confidence for which adiyen is ever greatful.There are certain fundamentals which adiyen needs to understand..Humanbeings are supposed strive for eliciting PERUMALS’ kripa is what generally religions preach.Is this not swathanthryam as opposed to Sheshatwam and parathanthryam and hence may be preaching not correct.Otherwise.how these seemingly contradictory concepts are reconciled..There must be shasthra pramanams cited by our purvacharyas,adiyen would beg to know.Kindly parden adiyens ignorance ,if any sampradaya dosham crept into my way of addressing my doubt. Dasanudasan Krishnamachary vote. - Register online to vote today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Respected Swamy Accept Dasans'Pranams Happy to have known references cited as well as Vishnu swamis webcite Which adiyen keeping in favourites list for constant refence and mananam purpose. Adiyens main doubt is sheshtwam being natural to jiva why it does not spontaneously express itself.Karma main reason cited which adiyen is mulling over and probably lack of understanding is the block.adiyen is sure to benifit from references given and baghavatas kripa Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan jayasartn <jayasartn wrote: SrI: Respected swamin, As for your query, the swathanthiryam of the jiva is due to ignorance, according to Ramanuja's philosophy, caused by karma and purva-vasanas. What actually happened in the beginning when creation took place in the very very distant past (assumed) when the jiva was (?!) Infinite as the Barhman, is explained in the beginning of the first chapter of Acharya Hrudhayam. I think the translation of this is available in the net. Secondly how the chetana gets to desire different fruits, the best of which is moksha is explained in verse 7-16 of Gita. I request you to kindly go through the series of mails "Wonder as worship - jignAsu' by Sri MK Sudharshan that are being currently published in Tiruvenkatam / Oppiliappan list. The actual transcendance or regress which, though seem to happen by one's own will (swathanthiryam)is actually happening by the Will of god is explained in chapter 13, of Gita, 'Daivaasura samapad vibhaga yogam". Another aspect to be taken into consideration is verse 10-10 of gita in which the Lord says that He gives Buddhi to the one whom He wants to lift. In short Gita gives a lot of insight into this aspect that answers your question. But ramanuja philosophy adheres to complete dependence of the jiva on Brahman. That means swathanthiryam is denied to the soul. But srivaishmavism is divided on finer aspects of prapatti from the point of view of swathanthiryam. The sect to which I belong, namely Thenkalai does not see any any scope for swathanthiryam even in doing prapatti. We take pramanam from Mumukshuppadi which says that if you say that you do praaptti that amounta to ahamkaaram (I do etc). It is the Lord who gives you the rakshanam. Elsewhere in the same grantham, it is said that the lord does not discard the one who does prapatti on his own.(It is in this vein, the Lord as Sriman Narayana gives delivarance to worshippers of other Gods too. This has been made out in my mails to Sri BAlaji's queries recently) But on impartial analysis of the sookhthis without adherence to any one sect's ideology, this writer had written some mails on 'free-will and pre-determination'in the Bhakthi-list about a couple of years ago. The inference that was arrived at was that there is absolutely no freedom or swathanthiryam to the jiva.If needed I will forward those mails from my file. Regards, jayasree saranathan. ramanuja, vedantham chary wrote: > > Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan > > It gives adiyen immence satisfaction to learn so much from learned bhagavathas mails..only regret being not able to contribute any thing due to inherent ignorance in DIVYAPRABHANDAMS.Adiyen is telugu speaking and hence a handicap even in understanding language let alone subtleness of the subject.However bhagavathas mails uplifted adiyen so much and instilled confidence for which adiyen is ever greatful.There are certain fundamentals which adiyen needs to understand..Humanbeings are supposed strive for eliciting PERUMALS' kripa is what generally religions preach.Is this not swathanthryam as opposed to Sheshatwam and parathanthryam and hence may be preaching not correct.Otherwise.how these seemingly contradictory concepts are this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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