The Soul .. The Soul .. The Soul.. => Halk Baked Soul Vs Full Baked Soul ????

[Guest guest]

Sri Balaji Sundarajan,

 

Death can come to a person in any

age, or in any way( accident , peaceful, disease

etc)If one is pure devottee and die at the time of

death thinking of perumal he will go to

Vaikuntha.Even if a pure devotte may not be able to

think about perumal at that time Perumal will remember

him and will take him there.For other people they

take birth according to the state of mind at the time

of their death.( they get a state of mind according to

the way they led that life.)They create their own body

for the next life.Those who commit suicide they dont

get any body at all . they wander with their subtle

body without getting any gross body .(Ghosts). Because

they didn't wait till their time of natural death.

they are punished.

 

Krishna dasee

 

Vedavalli Ranganathan.

--- Balaji Sundarrajan

<bsundarrajansrivilliputtur wrote:

 

>

>

>

>

> Shri:

>

> Shri Kaarimaaran thunai

>

>

>

> Dear Bhagavathaas

>

>

>

> Pranaams.

>

> Adiyaen is posing a question to find out the

> solutions from Our

>

> Vaishnavaa philosophy.

>

> Please apologise me if these words are written to

> hurt any individuals/groups

>

> feelings. !!! It was not intended for that purpose.

>

> This is my long streching(stressing) un-answerable

> question. ???

>

> As per bhagavad gita and our Kaari-maara-piraan , we

> indulge in

>

> the services of the lord, Worship Nothing but him

> ,Thinking of him

>

> always,singing the thiuvaaimozhi to reach

> Parama-padam(or Moksham)

>

> one day. Very Good !!! ... Nice....

>

> Supporting Quotes:

>

> ***********************

>

> Aluvan-Thozhuvan-Aadi-Kaan-pan Paadi-alarruvan.....

>

> Naadeer Naal Naalthorum...vaadaa Malar Kondu.......

>

> Thaal-kal Thalaiyil vanangi Naal kadalai kazhiminaey

> !!!

>

> - Kaari Maaran

>

> But this is for a IDEAL CASE.

>

> In most circumstances 50 % of people die

> pre-maturely in one way or the

>

> other way before they reach old age. such as a

> natural disaster due to

>

> Mother Nature , Accidents, Violence, un-caused

> violence ,uncaused

>

> death ,disease, suicides (due to

> wealth,health,passion or any other

>

> reasons ) etc. What is the status of these souls ?

>

> Will they get re-birth ? or They still attain

> moksham.

>

>

>

> Our Vishnu-chittar wrote :

>

> Yeippu Yennai Vanthu-Naliyum-pothu

>

> Aangethu Naan-Unnai Ninaikka Mattaen..

>

> Appo-thaikku- Ippo-they Solli Vaithaen

>

> Arangath-aravanai-Palli-Yaanae!!

>

> we get moksham because we sing the above verse

> before

>

> our sudden death.

>

> Is this the way it works. ?

>

> Or

>

>

>

> (Because) We Once sang/heared vishnu sahasranaamam

> fully through

>

> our ears..... That itself will do the needed

> Moksham. Ehi...eeehi ...eehi... !!!

>

> Kannan Kalal-inai Nannum Manam-udaiyeer

>

> Yennum thirunaamam thinnam Naara-na-mey !!!

>

> => Thereby points to Sahasranaamam.

>

> - Kaarimaaran

>

> Konjam -adjust panni... (paarthu -pottu -kudunga...

> like ordinary people

>

> speak in Market & grocery Store. )

>

> -> will we get moksham like this way ??

>

>

>

> I saw cases where they perform rituals as per hindu

> saastra , after a man dies

>

> in Raameswaram, Kaasi , Gangai etc.. thinking that

> the soul will reach moksham..

>

> by paying to Brahmin-Priest over there. Thereby

> overriding/ignoring the

>

> Karma-Vinai-Payan.

>

> Karma-vinai(deeds) can not be overridden, even for

> Kaliyan (Thiru-mangai-mannan )

>

> (Almighty blessed soul - Mayarvara mathinalam...),

> who got killed... to get

>

> moksham.. and not achieved a smooth salvation like

> Vishnu-chittar(Peri-Aazhwar)

>

> Reason is obvious : Our Almighty wanted to follow

> the rules(legislation)

>

> as per Vedas. (Isho-Upanishad thunders this point.

> about the fate of these

>

> soul-killers. ! )

>

> What is the case of abortion doing women due to

> circumstances (any reason ,

>

> in one way or the other way - they are also Soul -

> Killers !!! ) ?. Are they set

>

> to go to hell ? especially in India with 102+ crores

> of people. it looks

>

> fine to me to do abortion in the cause of saving the

> Mother earth (or Nature) !!!

>

> there by saving the agricultural output such as

> grains , food , space,

>

> green mother nature, live-stocks, any other

> carni,herbi,omnivorous

>

> beings(or animals) providing more space for earth's

> nature !!!

>

> Why i am telling all these obnoxious stories ?

>

> I used to watch television occasionally (without

> involving by senses..) ..,

>

> the channels like TLC , OLN,Discovery (TCL ->

> Learning Channel

>

> OLN -> ... Life Network.. [may be ] , ) !!!

>

> They use to show a ghost

> simulation/feeling/experience. this is like a serial

>

> shown ... non-stop .. every week !!! crossed more

> than 100's of devil episodes

>

> covering in devils of north america alone.

>

> Some of the stories are very horrific as they screen

> like hearing from

>

> a live-witness !!! (not like our india where every

> pulia maram

>

> (Tamarind tree) is considered a Devil !!! and lot of

> devil stories

>

> spin around that Tree !!!

>

> [ Tamarind tree is the most Holy-tree , as it

> sheltered kaari-maaran ,

>

> therfore most worshippable like Tulasi plant ! ]

>

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Smt. Vedavalli,

 

I agree to your view that the suicidal souls go about as ghosts.

 

But was the act (suicide) not determined and willed by him?

 

Dasan/raghavan

 

vedavalli ranganathan <vedaranga wrote:

 

Sri Balaji Sundarajan,

 

Death can come to a person in any

age, or in any way( accident , peaceful, disease

etc)If one is pure devottee and die at the time of

death thinking of perumal he will go to

Vaikuntha.Even if a pure devotte may not be able to

think about perumal at that time Perumal will remember

him and will take him there.For other people they

take birth according to the state of mind at the time

of their death.( they get a state of mind according to

the way they led that life.)They create their own body

for the next life.Those who commit suicide they dont

get any body at all . they wander with their subtle

body without getting any gross body .(Ghosts). Because

they didn't wait till their time of natural death.

they are punished.

 

Krishna dasee

 

Vedavalli Ranganathan.

[Guest guest]

Dear Balaji Sundarrajan

 

The theories of all the Hindu religions including Vaishnava philosophy believe

in the omnipotence of Karma. Sufferings and enjoyment are the fruits of Karma.

All the theologies talk about redemption of the soul and how to overcome the

effects of Karma resuling in samsara and transmigration.

 

Any good or bad resuls are the rewards and punishment for the good and bad acts

done in the previous births which we call as prarabda Karma.

 

Regarding the other point about the pious souls meeting with unnatuaral

deaths,the Lord has assured in His Varaha sarama sloka that when a person

surrenders to Him when he is hale and hearty, the Lord remembers His Bhaktha at

his last moments, lying as a log of wood, and leads him to moksha.

 

I am not sure about place of ghosts in vaishnava philosophy.

 

Adiyen Ramanujadasan

Soundararajan

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

[Guest guest]

Sri vijayaraghavan Swami,

 

We all know at the time of

birth , our time of death also fixed.People of

intelligence , even if they undergo sever troubles and

sorrows ,with forbearance wait patiently, till their

time of natural death and get a body in the next

birth.. But those who are bereft of knowledge, committ

suicide whimsically,without thinking of the result of

their act. They disobey god's law, and get punishment

by not getting a gross body. God never interfere in

our acts.He only sanctions our desires.He has given us

intelligence and minute independence also.If a son

disobeys a father and dont listen to him, what will a

father say? He will say,if you do like that you will

sufferand i cant help it."is it not? The same way if a

soul disobey God's law, the same applies here. he wont

get a body and suffers as a ghost.

 

most people don't even know Paramatma is

there sitting by our side.in Kathobanishad it is said

about two birds sitting in a tree. one bird vigorously

eating the fruits of the tree.and another sitting

quietly and watching the act of the other bird.when

the bird fortunately turn his head and sees the bird

sitting quitely and make him his friend it's life is

success.otherwise this bird has to go on eat the

fruits of his Karma again and again.one bird is

jeevatma which is eating fruits and the other one is

Paramatma. He is the superviserof our acts.He never

interfere in our acts unless we take shelter of

Him.Krishna says in Bhagwath gita ,i give

intelligence,remembrance and forgetfulness.'So if with

intelligence we take shelter of His lotus feet he is

always there to guide us.

 

 

Krishna dasee

Vedavalli Ranganathan.

[Guest guest]

Smt.Vedavalli ranganathan,

 

Thanks for your explanation, I have read that we never can do anything that is

not willed by him. I think that explains the Sharanagathi principle more

clearly.

 

We can never ever diobey his writ. Even that is willed by him!! That explains

the

Ravana's charecter also. Hope you agree else correct if my understanding is

wrong.

 

Dasan/raghavan

 

vedavalli ranganathan <vedaranga wrote:

 

Sri vijayaraghavan Swami,

 

We all know at the time of

birth , our time of death also fixed.People of

intelligence , even if they undergo sever troubles and

sorrows ,with forbearance wait patiently, till their

time of natural death and get a body in the next

birth.. But those who are bereft of knowledge, committ

suicide whimsically,without thinking of the result of

their act. They disobey god's law, and get punishment

by not getting a gross body. God never interfere in

our acts.He only sanctions our desires.He has given us

intelligence and minute independence also.If a son

disobeys a father and dont listen to him, what will a

father say? He will say,if you do like that you will

sufferand i cant help it."is it not? The same way if a

soul disobey God's law, the same applies here. he wont

get a body and suffers as a ghost.

 

most people don't even know Paramatma is

there sitting by our side.in Kathobanishad it is said

about two birds sitting in a tree. one bird vigorously

eating the fruits of the tree.and another sitting

quietly and watching the act of the other bird.when

the bird fortunately turn his head and sees the bird

sitting quitely and make him his friend it's life is

success.otherwise this bird has to go on eat the

fruits of his Karma again and again.one bird is

jeevatma which is eating fruits and the other one is

Paramatma. He is the superviserof our acts.He never

interfere in our acts unless we take shelter of

Him.Krishna says in Bhagwath gita ,i give

intelligence,remembrance and forgetfulness.'So if with

intelligence we take shelter of His lotus feet he is

always there to guide us.

 

 

Krishna dasee

Vedavalli Ranganathan.

 

 

 

 

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

 

 

 

ramanuja/

 

ramanuja

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Swamin,

 

Yes all the philosophy deals with Karma. But Karma alone doesnot upgrade or

degrade a soul. The fruits that we bear in the subsequent births are due to

other

efforts like Sharanagathi, prapatti and all which actually have a certain degree

of nullifying effect on the karma.

 

As for ghosts, this is also one repentant state of the Jiva.

 

Dasan/raghavan

 

rajan s <rajan_ramaswamy wrote:

 

Dear Balaji Sundarrajan

 

The theories of all the Hindu religions including Vaishnava philosophy believe

in the omnipotence of Karma. Sufferings and enjoyment are the fruits of Karma.

All the theologies talk about redemption of the soul and how to overcome the

effects of Karma resuling in samsara and transmigration.

 

Any good or bad resuls are the rewards and punishment for the good and bad acts

done in the previous births which we call as prarabda Karma.

 

Regarding the other point about the pious souls meeting with unnatuaral

deaths,the Lord has assured in His Varaha sarama sloka that when a person

surrenders to Him when he is hale and hearty, the Lord remembers His Bhaktha at

his last moments, lying as a log of wood, and leads him to moksha.

 

I am not sure about place of ghosts in vaishnava philosophy.

 

Adiyen Ramanujadasan

Soundararajan

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

 

 

 

 

 

azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam

 

 

 

ramanuja/

 

ramanuja

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sri:

 

Dear Sri Balaji,

 

Can you let us know the reference from where you got this

notion about Thirumangai Azhvar getting killed.

 

6000padi Guru Parampara Prabhavam does not say much

about the final days of Azhvar. It only says that he

spent his time in Srirangam along with his wife

Kumudhavalli Nacchiyar, doing service to Periya Perumal.

 

Elsewhere I have read that Azhvar moved with Nacchiyar

to Thirukkurunkudi and there becoming disinterested in

the world, he spent his final days enjoying Nambi's

beauty and reached paramapadam. Even now, there is

a small sannidhi in the middle of a field there, which

is supposed to be the exact location where Azhvar left

this world.

 

But no where have I come across this story that Azhvar

was killed.

 

Please clarify.

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

 

ramanuja, "bsundarrajansrivilliputtur"

<bsundarrajansrivilliputtur> wrote:

> Karma-vinai(deeds) can not be overridden, even for Kaliyan (Thiru-

> mangai-mannan )

> (Almighty blessed soul - Mayarvara mathinalam...), who got

killed...

> to get

> moksham.. and not achieved a smooth salvation like Vishnu-chittar

> (Peri-Aazhwar)