Guest guest Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha: Azwar Thiruvadigale Sharanam Dear Sir, Would it be possible for you to tell me the time by which the two Kalais had become distinct. Were they already distinct by the time of the last Acharyas of the two Acharya paramparaigal (Swami Vedanta Desikar and Manavala Mamunigal) ? Around what time did the two kalais adopt the different namams? Please forgive any mistake which I may I have commited in the above questions. Thanks, Kannan ramanuja, Madhuri and Mohan <mmsagar@e...> wrote: > honganour krishna wrote: > > > DEAR SADAGOPAN MAMA, > > > > AS IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GETHOLD OF THE BOOK YOU HAVE REFERRED; MYSELF > > AND OTHERS WOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO KNOW THE KEY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE > > TWO SAMPRADAYAMAMS. > > > > ADYEN PILLAI LOKACHARIAR DASAN, > > KRISHNA > > > > *//* > > Dear Sri Krishna, > > It is a unique foible of Indian society to focus so much on differences > that we forget what makes us all similar. For after all, are we not all > just human beings? > > Be that as it may, I will try to summarize in a nutshell what makes the > two kalais unique, although it has been the topic of discussion and > debate ad-infinitum in this and other lists. > > While we officially recognize 18 fundamental differences between the two > kalais, the issue really boils down to the idea of prapatti, for it > would appear that Bhagavad Sri Ramanuja and his forebearers had left > some room for interepretation in regard. Both the kalais agree that the > soul's protection and redemption rest on the Grace of the Supreme Being, > but the Vadakalai school, having recognized the idea that some might > interpret this to mean some partiality on the Lord's part on whom He > saves and whom he doesn't, suggested the idea of a vya:jam - a pretext, > if you will - that the Lord uses to recognize that the soul is ready and > willing to be saved. This sacrament, called bha:ranya:sam, is the > holiest of rituals in the Vadakalai branch, and little is known about > the ritual except by those who actually experience this most sacred > moment in their spiritual progress. > > The Thenkalais, on the other hand, place almost a literal meaning on > prapatti, seeing it more as a psychological/spiritual awareness such > that the soul realizes that everything lies in God's Merciful Hands, and > leaves it at that. Therefore, there is no formal ritual or sacrament > involved. > > The role of Sri:, the Divine Mother, Who is the Embodiment of His Grace, > emerges naturally from this difference. Since it is She to Whom we turn > in reality in our experience of surrender, Her distance or nearness to > us depends on how prapatti is viewed. From the Vadakalai standpoint, > She too is part of the Supreme Reality, consequently She requires the > same vya:jam upon which to directly offer Her Grace. Please note that > this is not to suggest that Her Grace is not there otherwise, our act of > surrender merely acts to serve as a "green signal" to Her providing it > to us fully. > > With regards to the Thenkalai position, there is no doubt that She is > part of the Supreme, but She takes on a human role such that She can > relate to Her children, Sharing with them in all the joys and sorrows of > life, so that can put their full faith in Her and Her Eternal Consort. > > As Sri Sadagopan has indicated, it takes many, many years of study and > experience to fully understand these two philosophies and how they > effect the culture, lifestyle, and attitudes of the people who align > themselves with one or the other school of thought. So, it is vital > that one learns properly from a teacher and begins to practice the faith. > > But, I hope this helps as a start. > > Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 n_kannan3 wrote: > Srimate Ramanujaya Namaha: > Azwar Thiruvadigale Sharanam > > Dear Sir, > > Would it be possible for you to tell me the time by which the two > Kalais had become distinct. Were they already distinct by the time of > the last Acharyas of the two Acharya paramparaigal (Swami Vedanta > Desikar and Manavala Mamunigal) ? Around what time did the two kalais > adopt the different namams? > Please forgive any mistake which I may I have commited in the above > questions. > > Thanks, > Kannan > > Dear Mr. Kannan, Neither Swamy Vedanta Desika nor his contemporary, Swamy Pillai Lokacharya, saw themselves as formulators of some unique path - nor for that matter did Sri Manavalamamunigal, who was 50 years later. On the contrary, the two contemporaries had great regard for one another, even conferring accolades upon each other on occassion. And all of them recognized themselves as servants to the Acharya Paramaparai of Ramanuja only. The differences in interpretation were more the subject of scholarly study and healthy debate, and probably did more to infuse the community with refreshing new ideas just as any good, intelligent debate does today. Regarding the thiruman, which to me is perhaps the least important among the differences, it would be safe to assume that the shapes and sizes of thirumans varied from location to location, perhaps even between persons. But, the establishment of the two generalized shapes to serve as as the "logo" of a particular kalai came with the firm demarcation of the two kalais, which most students of religion place somewhere in the mid to late 1700s, when the activities of the British suddenly brought out the need to concretize specific beliefs for the sake of preservation of the tradition. Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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