Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 First of all i am happy to be included in this group. I hope to get my doubts clarified and get some material to help with my spiritual growth. I am in Calcutta, the largest city in India, and hope to get some devotee friends on this group. My parents belong to Sri Ahobila Mutt, i have not undergone initiaition yet. I am not one for doing this blindly, and always seek answers. The usual reply has been this is the periyava way, that is it. Here is my first question to the group: 1: Ramanuja Nootrandadhi The author is not an Azhvar (Amuthanar) Is this a part of 4000, why? / why not? Can someone give the list of how the 4000 is counted. If Amudhanar's work can be added, then why not Desika prabhandam. Satakopan Vasudevan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Dear Sri Satakopan, Adiyens pranam. for your question whether Iramanusan Nootranthathi is/is not in the 4000 Dhivya Prabhandam the answer is Iramanusa nootranthathi is not in the 4000 Dhivyaprabhandam, list. However it has the honor of being equivalent to the Dhivya prabhandams. The Arulicheyals(4000 dhivya prabhandam in sampradayam is called Arulicheyal) after the time of the last Azvar Thirumangai azvar declined in pracharam. The srivaishnavas in dhivya desams knew their dhivyadesam's prabhandams etc. It was during Nathamunikal's time some srivaishnavas from ThiruKudanthai dhivya desam, who were going in dhivya desam visit while coming to VeeraNarayanapuram chanted the "Araamuthe adiyen.. " pathigam (10 verses). When Nathamunikal heard the "...ayirathul ippathum" enquired Srivaishnavas that if they knew all the thousand. To that Srivaishnavas replied that they dont know, however Sri Nathamunikal went to Kurukoor and rest of all is history. Svami nammAzvar gave Sri Nathamunikal all the 4000 verses. This is stated in Guruparampara Prabhavam. There was no Iramanusa Nootranthathi at that time. There is no valid Pramanam that Azvar at that time knew that there was this prabhandam which is going to come in the future and hence gave sri Nathamunikal at that time. There is no valid pramanam that after Azvar gave the four thousand to Sri Nathamunkal through upadesam, the poorvacharyas after Nathamunikals time did not get Iramanusan Nootranthathi through upadesam(Nathamuni to uyyakondar to manakkal nambi to alavandar...). The Acharya who installed the pramanyam of Thiruvaimozhi Svami Azhagiya Manavaala Perumaal Nayanaar(younger brother of Svami LokaDesikan) in his MagnumOpus "Acharya Hrudayam" has quoted thus "All prabhandam before kanninum Chiruthaambu:- Pranava Artha vivaranam(explaination)" "KanninunChiruthaambu itself:- nama: shabda artha vivaranam" "Periya thirumozhi till Thirunedunthaadakam:- manthra sesha artha vivaranam" "Thiruvaimozhi:- Dhvyam artha vivaranam" "Iyarpa itself:- charamasloka artha vivaranam" again no iramanusan nootranthathi here. Holding this, the last of the poorvacharyas Svami Manavaalamamunikal, who became the acharya of for the first Acharya Sri Ranganathan himself, has hinted in his work Upadesaratnamalai that "Vaitha thirumanthirathin...Serviththaar Thaathparyam Thernthu" . Meaning Kanninunchiruththaambu was included into the 4000 dhivya prabhandam by knwoing the inner meaning of that. Even if Iramanusa Nootranthathi was included in the 4000 dhivya Prabhandam, since the inner meanings of Iramanusan nootranthathi denote Bhaagavatha Seshathvam" it must have been chanted after kanninunchiruththambu. But is very clear from anushtanam of all the dhivyadesams that Iramanusan Nootranthathi is chanted after Iyarpa. All the above quotes that Iramanusa Nootranthathi is not included in the DhivyaPrabhandam. However, During Udayavar's time in SriRangam, Sriranganatha in his Periya Thirunal's Sapthavaranothsavam day, stopped Svami Udayavar from entering the Kovil and did Arulappadu to Amuthanar to chant Iramanusa Nootranthathi and after hearing that, ordered all the srivaishnavas to chant this daily along with 4000 dhivya Prabhandam. and gave Iramanusa Nootranthathi the Dhivya Prabhandam Status and made the sattrumurai before thiruppalandu. Also ordered that during Anadhyayanam (karthikai-karthikai to thai-hastham)this Iramanusa Nootranthathi should not be chanted. These can be found very clearly in "Kovil Ozugu". Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, NCN. PS: a trivia: this Iramanusa Nootranthathi is the second version of the Iramanusan Nootranthathi by Amuthanar. When he gave udayavar what he wrote the first time udayavar(ramanuja)did not accept it and destroyed it, Then asked amuthanar if you really want to write something about him, then write it along with Azvars, acharyas, and thier works. ramanuja, Sadagopan Vasudevan <satakopanv@g...> wrote: > > Hello: > First of all i am happy to be included in this group. > I hope to get my doubts clarified and get some > material to help with my spiritual growth. > I am in Calcutta, the largest city in India, > and hope to get some devotee friends on this group. > My parents belong to Sri Ahobila Mutt, i have not undergone > initiaition yet. > I am not one for doing this blindly, and always seek > answers. The usual reply has been > this is the periyava way, that is it. > Here is my first question to the group: > 1: Ramanuja Nootrandadhi > The author is not an Azhvar (Amuthanar) > Is this a part of 4000, why? / why not? > Can someone give the list of how the 4000 is counted. > If Amudhanar's work can be added, then why not Desika > prabhandam. > Satakopan Vasudevan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 As far as I know actually there are 3679 hymns only which are called 4000 This does not include Ramanuja nootru anthathi The breakup of 3679 is as below Thirupallandu 12---Periazhwar Thirumozhi--461 Andal Thiruppavai--30 Nachiar Thirumozhi 143 Kulasekarar--105 Thirumazhisai Azhwars Thiruchanda virutham-120 Thondaradis Thirumalai-45 &Thirupalli Ezuchi 10 Thiruppan Azhwar Amalan Athi Piran 10 Madurakavis Kanninun Siruthambu 11 Thirumangai Azhwar Peria Thirumozhi 1084---Thirukurunthandagam--20 & Nedunthandagam --30 Poigaiyar--mudal Thiruanthathi 100 BOOTHATHAR --2nd Thiruanthathi---100 Peyazhwar Moonram--100 Thirumazhisaipiran Nangam Thiruanthathi 96 & finally NAMMAZHWARS Thiruvirutham-- Thiruasiriam Peria Thiruanthathi & THIRUVAIMOZHI all totalling 1102 If U total all U get 3679 which is called 4000 Of Course some school of thot say Thiruarangathu Amudanars POEMS as they are on Sri Ramanuja can be added as Part of 4000 since there is a shortfall to 4000 Can U throw lite on Desika Prabandam in detail AANDAL thiruvadigale CHARANAM ADIYEN B>R Parthasarathi On 10/22/05, Sadagopan Vasudevan <satakopanv > wrote: Hello: First of all i am happy to be included in this group. I hope to get my doubts clarified and get some material to help with my spiritual growth. I am in Calcutta, the largest city in India, and hope to get some devotee friends on this group. My parents belong to Sri Ahobila Mutt, i have not undergone initiaition yet. I am not one for doing this blindly, and always seek answers. The usual reply has been this is the periyava way, that is it. Here is my first question to the group: 1: Ramanuja Nootrandadhi The author is not an Azhvar (Amuthanar) Is this a part of 4000, why? / why not? Can someone give the list of how the 4000 is counted. If Amudhanar's work can be added, then why not Desika prabhandam. Satakopan VasudevanazhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Visit your group "ramanuja" on the web. ramanuja -- Regards B.R.Parthasarathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha Dear Bhagavathas, Pranams > Q2: was If Amudhanar's work can be added, then why > not Desika The reason why Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi is included in the 4000 is as follows: (This explanation is in the vyakyanam for Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi written by Sri.U.Ve. Kanchi Mahavidhwan Pradhivadhi Bhayankaram Annangaracharyar Swami). Since Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi was written during the days of Emberumanar, and since he himself heard it, due to Emberumanar's own direction this prabhandham is included with Azhwar's arulicheyals for all the prapannas to recite everyday in their Nithyanusandheyam. Since this prabandham includes Emberumanar's name 'Ramanusa' in every paasuram, it is also called "Prapanna Gaythri" since this is the Gayathri every prapanna must recite every day. The point to be noted is that this prabandham is included by Emberumanar himself and none other than him has any authority to do so. Hence, there is no descrimination what so ever possible. Also, since we all have different systems in arriving the total count 4000 (even without including Ramanusa Nootrandhadhi), it really does not matter whether Ramanusa Nootrandhahdi is part of 4000 or not. All it matters is as a prapanna we MUST recite this in our nithyanusandheyam. 3776, 3892, 4000 are all mere numbers. Kindly accept my appologies for any errors. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan Sampath Kumar Padmanaban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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