Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 I am certain all Bhagavatas on this list know this so thisis a mere terminological clarification and only a reminder toyou all. moola-prakriti is not created by the Lord. itis eternal and exits due to his eternal will (nitya-icchA). It is extremely subtle, present only as a seed, during cosmic dissolution, and when manifest it is the phenomenal universethat we experience. In all cases it is bhagavad-Atmaka, orensouled by Bhagavaan who is the fundamental support (AdhAra), controller (niyAmaka), and substrate (seshi).As another writer has mentioned, our vyAkhyAna-kartAs haveexplained Alvar's exclamation of "mudal tani vittu" as correspondingto the three kinds of causes. I'm writing from memory so please forgive any errors, but the view is that tirumAl alone is "mudal" -- the first One. He was not the product of anything else. Therefore he alone can be the nimitta kAraNa or efficient cause."tani" -- tirumAl alone is the operative cause. He has no sahakAri-kAraNa or second agent helping him."vittu" -- tirumAl alone is the seed, the material cause (upAdAna-kAraNa).In the last case he is the material cause not because he is identicalwith prakriti or transforms himself into prakriti but because prakriti in both its manifest and unmanifest state is completely pervaded, controlled,and supported by him, and exists by his will (sankalpa).This is a long aside and I beg the reader's forgiveness for writingso much. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 True. All the three thathvam-s as per our philosophy are eternal. However, both chith and achith are subject to transformation. Achith becomes subtle and gets expanded . However, it is permanent. Similarly, the Atman undergoes transformation by taking births and rebirths and entering various forms of bodies.-muRai muRai Akkai pugal -thiru-vAi-Mozhi 5-1- 6 It is also in subtle state when EmperumAn decide to keep all the souls in His belly to save us from unending cumulative effect of the sins -thAyikrukkum vaNNamEA vummaith than vayithiruthi vuyyak koNDAn- Periya Thriumozhi 11-6-6; What perhaps, Sri Patangi must have meant is, bringing the expanded form of prakruthi from the subtle state .Likewise, creating -paDaithal- is giving physical structure to the souls -annAL nE thandha Akkai -Thiru-vAi Mozhi 3-2-1; >From the write ups of Sri Mukundan Pattangi and Sri Mani VaradaRajan svAmi, it must be more clear now regarding prakruthi/mUla prkruthi dASan vanamamalai padmanabhan - Mani Varadarajan ramanuja Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:54 AM [ramanuja] Re: moola prakruthi Moola Prakruthi is created by the LORD.and it is considered to be constantly changing, I am certain all Bhagavatas on this list know this so thisis a mere terminological clarification and only a reminder toyou all. moola-prakriti is not created by the Lord. itis eternal and exits due to his eternal will (nitya-icchA). It is extremely subtle, present only as a seed, during cosmic dissolution, and when manifest it is the phenomenal universethat we experience. In all cases it is bhagavad-Atmaka, orensouled by Bhagavaan who is the fundamental support (AdhAra), controller (niyAmaka), and substrate (seshi).As another writer has mentioned, our vyAkhyAna-kartAs haveexplained Alvar's exclamation of "mudal tani vittu" as correspondingto the three kinds of causes. I'm writing from memory so please forgive any errors, but the view is that tirumAl alone is "mudal" -- the first One. He was not the product of anything else. Therefore he alone can be the nimitta kAraNa or efficient cause."tani" -- tirumAl alone is the operative cause. He has no sahakAri-kAraNa or second agent helping him."vittu" -- tirumAl alone is the seed, the material cause (upAdAna-kAraNa).In the last case he is the material cause not because he is identicalwith prakriti or transforms himself into prakriti but because prakriti in both its manifest and unmanifest state is completely pervaded, controlled,and supported by him, and exists by his will (sankalpa).This is a long aside and I beg the reader's forgiveness for writingso much. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Dear Swamy, I am trying to understand this concept using an analogy. Please let me know if this is correct. In chemistry, they say that all the chemical elements are built using the building blocks namely the nucleus, proton, electron and nuetron. As a proton, electron and nuetron is added to a nucleus, Hydrogen comes up(at least that is what they say). Adding one more set of these makes it Helium. Is mUla-prakrthi something like this proton, electron, nuetron and nucleus package from which every other of the 24(25?) achith tattvams are formed? Kindly explain. adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan ramanuja, "Padmanabhan" <aazhwar wrote: > > True. All the three thathvam-s as per our philosophy are eternal. However, both chith and achith are subject to transformation. Achith becomes subtle and gets expanded . However, it is permanent. > > Similarly, the Atman undergoes transformation by taking births and rebirths and entering various forms of bodies.-muRai muRai Akkai pugal -thiru-vAi-Mozhi 5-1- 6 > It is also in subtle state when EmperumAn decide to keep all the souls in His belly to save us from unending cumulative effect of the sins -thAyikrukkum vaNNamEA vummaith than vayithiruthi vuyyak koNDAn- Periya Thriumozhi 11-6-6; > > What perhaps, Sri Patangi must have meant is, bringing the expanded form of prakruthi from the subtle state .Likewise, creating -paDaithal- is giving physical structure to the souls -annAL nE thandha Akkai -Thiru-vAi Mozhi 3-2-1; > > From the write ups of Sri Mukundan Pattangi and Sri Mani VaradaRajan svAmi, it must be more clear now regarding prakruthi/mUla prkruthi > > dASan > vanamamalai padmanabhan > > - > Mani Varadarajan > ramanuja > Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:54 AM > [ramanuja] Re: moola prakruthi > > > Moola Prakruthi is created by the LORD. > and it is considered to be constantly changing, > > > I am certain all Bhagavatas on this list know this so this > is a mere terminological clarification and only a reminder to > you all. moola-prakriti is not created by the Lord. it > is eternal and exits due to his eternal will (nitya-icchA). > It is extremely subtle, present only as a seed, during cosmic > dissolution, and when manifest it is the phenomenal universe > that we experience. In all cases it is bhagavad-Atmaka, or > ensouled by Bhagavaan who is the fundamental > support (AdhAra), controller (niyAmaka), and substrate (seshi). > > As another writer has mentioned, our vyAkhyAna-kartAs have > explained Alvar's exclamation of "mudal tani vittu" as corresponding > to the three kinds of causes. I'm writing from memory so please > forgive any errors, but the view is that tirumAl alone is > "mudal" -- the first One. He was not the product of anything else. > Therefore he alone can be the nimitta kAraNa or efficient cause. > "tani" -- tirumAl alone is the operative cause. He has no sahakAri-kAraNa or > second agent helping him. > "vittu" -- tirumAl alone is the seed, the material cause (upAdAna-kAraNa). > > In the last case he is the material cause not because he is identical > with prakriti or transforms himself into prakriti but because prakriti in > both its manifest and unmanifest state is completely pervaded, controlled, > and supported by him, and exists by his will (sankalpa). > > This is a long aside and I beg the reader's forgiveness for writing > so much. > > aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan > > > > > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam > http://www.vedics.net > > > > > > > > > a.. Visit your group "ramanuja" on the web. > > b.. > ramanuja > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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