Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 I agree that it takes persistent effort, personal experience and intensive feeling. jgd. > "...Any comments/critcisms/etc. -- please don't hold back the thinking > process; feel everything completely until understanding takes root firmly. > Swamiji, Sankaracharya, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Ramana > Maharshi, and others didn't get where they were by depending on others -- > they thought about things and felt things very deeply for themselves. Read > Swamiji's life history book -- he tells you his entire thought process in > that book; how he analyzed things, how he spent time thinking about things, > how he overcame obstacles, etc. Only by following their example and > understanding their tattva and its significance in your own life can you > make progress. ..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 To say that "adharma" is "stupid" is wrong without proper understanding of the term. You are implying that the universe is "stupid" when really the universe is an example of the infinite order mixed with chaos that is what we imply when we say "god". The universe recognizes no "dharma" or "adharma" in the traditional sense of these terms -- first clarify what you mean by "dharma" and "adharma" without quoting scriptures; to simply take refuge in scripture is to back away from understanding. It is well and good that Sankaracharya understood things -- but do WE understand is the question; his understanding will not lead to my moksha. The simplest definition of "dharma" is "natural function" -- yes, a bird trying to be a monkey, is "stupid" because it is "adharmic". However, your use of the term "dharma" implies many other things -- which may or may not be true. In a different universe, with different laws, the "dharma" of that same bird may be to be "monkey like" -- but given we know nothing about this universe, it is pointless to speculate on other universes. We appreciate so little what is in front of us, but want to know what's 100 miles away... only to be dissappointed when we arrive there because we are still interested in what is 100 miles away. When Sri Krishna talks about the rise of "adharma" in mankind, he was referring to the increase in artificiality -- of superficiality -- when people say one thing, mean something else, and understand something completely different. He was referring to the age when people would increasingly become faithless in themselves, i.e., they would be afraid to know things for themselves. He was referring to a time when people increasingly acted against what they 'know' was the 'right thing' for them, i.e., to act against one's sva-dharma is 'sin' -- sin here doesn't imply anything evil, it simply means it is going against one's "nature" to try and please someone else. If we are wasting time pleasing other people, then there can be no happiness in us, spend time with yourself and your thoughts, and learn about yourSELF. Only then can we find happiness and "peace of mind". Peace of mind doesn't come from saying one thing when near Swamiji, and then behaving completely different when you are back in the "material world". Living should be spiritual, not just thinking. We should be always who we are, and stop trying to please other people. Find out who you are in the process. Learn to see how you think, how you act, and how you respond to things. Observe yourself always (we are able to gossip about others so easily, so why can't we spend 1 minute thinking about ourselves?). If you want to know someone, you don't need to ask them anything -- just observe them in action. Words are superficial, going into the depths of true emotion leads to real and significant understanding. As Swamiji says "Heart to Heart". Furthermore, to simply quote Swamiji -- without spending more than a second analyzing the depth of his statements -- doesn't lead you anywhere. It is not enough to memorize Sri Swamiji's words -- but to understand their depth and significance is the point of it all. I ask that people stop being afraid to think, to say what is on their minds, to get to the truth; rather than point each other towards this scripture and that, which is like a blind man, showing another blindman a videotape of the truth and being content that there is such a videotape in existence without having tasted the nectar of that truth. What is the point? A truth which you haven't personally tasted, is useless and meaningless. Everyone is capable of thinking deeply, though few people practise it because they are afraid of being "wrong" -- if you are "wrong" who cares? Draupadi didn't obtain the grace of Krishna until she gave up trying to "protect" herself -- similarly, stop trying to protect yourself from being "wrong". You are all God's children, so to speak, so each of you should have a voice and should have the right to find out what is that great 'truth' people are talking about. People keep repeating "focusing on the sadguru's feet is the only solution" in one way or another -- but has anyone really thought about what this IMPLIES? It doesn't mean taking a picture of his foot and training your mind to remember that. Go deeper into the meaning of things. Staring at his feet is no more elevating than staring at mine -- people need to spend time THINKING about what Sri Swamiji says. His songs and words are truly significant, if only we spend time thinking about them -- thinking about how things are related and connected. Even if you sit quietly and enjoy the music without understanding it, you will reap volumes of benefit and momentary satisfaction. If you refuse to think about things, then no sadguru can help you do anything. Fundamentally, you must make some effort -- it is YOU who needs moksha, not Swamiji. Swamiji has repeatedly mentioned that it is wrong to simply assume Swamiji will do everything, you must take 1 step towards him, and then he will take 10 towards you. It's not enough to read about "walking" you must do it yourself. If you "read" about walking towards Swamiji, then Swamiji will simply "read" about walking towards you. If you refuse to move, you will get nowhere. Yes we must have faith in the car that takes us places, but we must also use our own two feet to get in the car, and to operate it -- no? Any comments/critcisms/etc. -- please don't hold back the thinking process; feel everything completely until understanding takes root firmly. Swamiji, Sankaracharya, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Ramana Maharshi, and others didn't get where they were by depending on others -- they thought about things and felt things very deeply for themselves. Read Swamiji's life history book -- he tells you his entire thought process in that book; how he analyzed things, how he spent time thinking about things, how he overcame obstacles, etc. Only by following their example and understanding their tattva and its significance in your own life can you make progress. Again, this doesn't mean quoting them. Sadguru is a living example. jai guru datta. ______________________________ The centipede was happy quite until a bird said, in fun, "Which foot goes after which?" This raised his mind to such a pitch he lay distracted in a ditch considering how to run. 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Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 As Yogananda was following the path of Bhakti, and Ramana Maharshi that of Inana, and both got where they were by a lot of thinking, but also by very deep feeling, is it necessary for any devotee/disciple, no matter on what path, to as well think as feel very deeply? and is it then still possible to clearly distinguish between different paths and label them as "Bhakti", "Inana", "Karma Yoga", Dhyana Yoga etc? - and what does it mean that on one hand one should not hold back the thinking process until understanding takes root firmly, on the other hand so many of Swamiji´s sooktis say that annihilation of thoughts should be the aim? probably in the first place only judgemental thinking should be annihilated by and by (e.g as to what is dharmic or not, what is stupid or not), not that kind of thinking needed e.g. for driving a car, learning a foreign language, writing a shopping list etc.? moreover does it mean that it is artificial and thus of no avail if one tries to withhold the thought process and instead mechanically repeats quotations of some sort or the other, as long as understanding has not taken root firmly yet? Do you mean to say that until I haven´t understood that even trying to be good and be "dharmic" is some kind of wish, i.e. still ego,and that pleasing others and being bullied by them in the name of dharma is no better than bullying others myself? till I have experienced, not only blabbered that it is of no avail to entertain any wish or desire or fear whatsoever, not even the wish to constantly change things and to "improve the world"? jai guru datta > ...Any comments/critcisms/etc. -- please don't hold back the thinking > process; feel everything completely until understanding takes root firmly. > Swamiji, Sankaracharya, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Yogananda, Ramana > Maharshi, and others didn't get where they were by depending on others -- > they thought about things and felt things very deeply for themselves. Read > Swamiji's life history book -- he tells you his entire thought process in > that book; how he analyzed things, how he spent time thinking about things, > how he overcame obstacles, etc. Only by following their example and > understanding their tattva and its significance in your own life can you > make progress. Again, this doesn't mean quoting them. Sadguru is a living > example. > jai guru datta. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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