Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Thank you for your kind words. I am forwarding this to the group so they may also respond. Can i also follow this up with a question? In an earlier post you said that the senses can only perceive the past eg. light bounces of an object and is then transmitted to the eye, same with the ear. So the event has already happened before it gets to us to be perceived. It is like driving in a car but we are looking out the back window. Then how can we become aware of the event at the instant that it has occurred?? I ma not taking about the future but for example the moment the ball is kick become aware at that instant. How can we then face forward so we can see where we are going? Or if we can only perceive the past or if there is only the the past then what is in the future? Or what is the event that is the catalyst that creates an event or Karma??? Jai Guru Datta --- Pradyumna Upadrashta <oneinfinitezero wrote: > > The idea is that we seek to resolve our conflicts by > external means, when really the source of conflict > is within. What is within you, is what you will see > "externally." This is not contradictory to what the > bhagavad gita or what sri swamiji has said. Let us > first analyze what we even mean by the word > "externally" -- we will find that such "external" > things don't really exist -- everything is indeed > "internal". > It is not that we are "sent" to the earth; but that > the "earth" and the "people" are products of our > imagination. Think about this -- have you ever seen > anything in life that is not "seen with the eyes, or > heard with the ears, etc."? How do you know that the > person you are talking to is "real" and not simply > another aspect of your mind? If you cannot see the > world, without the glasses of the "mind" -- then how > do you know the world exists at all, if you didnt > have the mind to perceive it? Therefore, all > conflicts are within the mind alone. > It is for you to think over and try to understand > these questions -- are the earth and my family and > all these various multitudes of beings real if I do > not have the mind to perceive them? (i.e., the > infamous... if a tree fell in the forest, and no one > was there to see it fall... did a tree really fall?) > It depends on one's perspective. > As for the analogy with quantum physics -- the idea > is that, the process of observation, will inevitably > obscure the reality of the object. A particle can > neither be said to be a 'particle' or a 'wave' since > it has both properties, but since we measure using a > particular kind of experiment, we get the two > different outcomes that support both views. This is > proof that we alter our perceptions of things when > we label them as 'this' or 'that'. But this is an > extremely extremely subtle point. We don't know > enough about consciousness to say much about this > yet from a scientific viewpoint. However, it makes > philosophical and logical sense that your mind > creates your world around you -- because what is the > world around you except your mind? Have you smelled > anything without using your mind? Have you seen > anything without using your mind? Have you > experienced anything without using your mind? > Doesn't the mind "taint" or "create" in that sense > everything we see all around us? What does a flower > really look like, if we didn't perceive it with our > eyes and process this information with our minds? > What are the eyes? Do they even exist, if they were > not perceived by the mind? We know we have eyes > because we see that other people (who only exist > really in our minds) have eyes... we infer that we > also have eyes, and confirm this with a mirror.... > But, is the mirror real? Isn't it also something > that is perceived by the eyes? Isn't it also > processed by the mind? This goes to the very heart > of the issue. What are we? Who are we? Can I trust > that the body that I see, hear, touch, feel -- is > real? Does it have independent existence whether I > observe it or not? Or is it more like the dream > state -- where everything is real, so long as I > believe in the dream? Then we wake > up................. (what happened to the dream? > isn't it real anymore? it seemed so real before? we > lived a whole life in the dream, didn't we? yet, > here we are back.... as if none of it happened.... > what is that? isn't that the same as what we > experience here? how is your dream reality, > different from your waking reality? are we even > awake now?) > Think even deeper on these questions.... you'll > start to unfold the very truth behind all this that > we see hear touch and smell. Krishna once said in > the "Udhava Gita" that "what you see, hear, touch, > taste, or smell... know that you can never know what > it REALLY is...." In other words, we color reality > with our minds, and then we become attached to the > objects that really only exist in our minds.... even > I exist in your mind.... just as you exist in my > mind.... but there's no way for me to point to any > direction in space, or any point in time... that > isn't actually part of my mind! So, eliminating all > that we perceive with our senses, and process with > our minds.... what remains... is the true SELF... > that is the GOD we all seek.... > What i'm saying is... when we change our minds... > the entire world changes instantly... > Ramana Maharshi had a great quote on this idea: > "In order to avoid the pain of walking on stones and > thorns, rather than trying to cover the entire world > with leather, we can walk on sandals...." > Change must take place from within, as individuals. > It cannot come from the societal level, each > individual must seek to change themselves, and find > out "who am I?". This frees us from all kinds of > troubles and worries. Just ask yourself... who am I > really? What is this that I see around me? Why do I > attach myself to this? Why do I run away from this? > I am glad you are able to freely express yourself. > It is far better to ask a question than simply > remaining silent and not even trying. I enjoyed your > questions, they were insightful and got me thinking > as well. > Jai guru datta. > s webster <legal041 wrote:Jai Guru Datta > > I don't understand. I apologize for the lack of > skill > properly expressing myself and my thoughts. I will > attempt to outline my questions? > > Are you saying that we as Souls/Beings are sent to > the > earth? The earth then already have been designed and > made and exists? So then is this plane of existence > real???? Are enveloped by the pre-existence of where > we are at present??? > > If this does not exist then what is around me a > manifestation of my own thoughts and Karma? Does not > the study support that contention? > > If self realization and spirituality has nothing to > do > with the changing of the environment or society > behaves doesn't that contradict the Gita which > states > the all of this does not exist. And that Swamiji > says > only exist in the Lord. > > If it has nothing to do with the environment then > how > when we have changed our attitudes, perspectives or > even become self aware our interactions have changed > and doesn't this change the "external environment > and > society"??? > > I have some additional questions but I will post it > in > another email to make it easier for me to read and > understand. > > --- Pradyumna Upadrashta > > > ______________________________ > The centipede was happy quite > until a bird said, in fun, > "Which foot goes after which?" > This raised his mind to such a pitch > he lay distracted in a ditch > considering how to run. > > > > > Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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