Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Pranaam....... Ya running loops round my head or what?! I may be rather out of "track" but here goes: I was reading some mind-boggling stuff about psycho-analysis with a friend that day and this thing about "Mind over Matter" and "Matter over Mind" sprung up. Was trying to get out of the usual "train" of thought with a desire to see how that may be of relevance to the spiritual side of things when that question about "heart and temple" popped into my (vacuous) head. When I mostly resonate with someone's thoughts and can relate to and learn from what they are saying, I find it appropriate to compliment the person such as in your case. Because there is a lot of truth in what you took the time to share. well, in this case i tend to disagree , as imo, when we use the term TEMPLE <<<<<< Everyone's got their own "personal truths" and that includes their individual definition of "Temple". I am not disagreeing with your "disagreement" presented here. Merely trying to find a balance between us and others who may feel differently (people I'd met here and there & there's plenty of them out there). then , we need to realise what is temple for us.<< Of course we do. Blessed are those who can realise it in one lifetime or a few lifetimes. I am still trying to find/fumble my way through the mists L imo, its a place where the GOD/DESS /LORD/DEITY is supposed to be residing & where wud the grrr8 reside , at a place where v r absolutely PIOUS , SANCTIOUS ,TRUE , FULL of feelings , devotion &dedication , which never questions , or argues but follows ,where its just faith & total faith , u may term it as blind faith too (though i think ,if it is faith it is ALWAYS BLIND) which can only be heart but that too after a level ,which does'nt diffrentitate in in beings , which never hurts nor has ego , <<<< This I am largely in resonance with. itsjust feelings (& thats why ,at least in india, we find that the socalled illiterate are much better devotees,as they just have faith ,no questions) but when it comes to brain , it is divided into two (i guess ) positive & negative , (Yes the brain is divided into two. Or more in some cases..) it questions, it reasons out , it thinks before beleiving , it wants proofs & it makes one diffrentitate even among humans- Its almost like a science, for inquisitive minds that question and desire proof.. Depends on the individual or collective devotee/s, their origins, background and customs I guess (I'm mainly thinking about non-Indians and people born outside the Santana Dharma.) For Tantriks and Aghoris, I can only guess their inclinations are different for they see where Maya exists, there is duality, that the Soul is only one, the "indivisible" in the state of Sat-Chit-Ananda. (Anyway, lets get back to the Tantrism Egroup if we decide to go further into this particular subject. As we both know, there are plenty of Highly Learned Ones such as yourself, there, who will be happy to impart wisdoms and delve deeper.) i hope u understanding what i want to express.<< I do indeed. just for example if one thing goes wrong, then another , then another , its our brain which makes us question "HEY GURUJI/GOD/DESS , R U ACTUALLY THERE, IF YOU ARE THEN WHY YOU DOING THIS , NAW ITS JUST NOT THERE" etc. etc.<<< Doubts? No man, no woman, no "Body", no one, Nothing, no problem! (From a different perspective, the harder the austerities the Guru/God/Goddess puts us through, the stronger we will become, that is, if we could last the distance). but our HEART would correct us , no , you are wrong , cmon ,HE is there & seeing etc.etc. so in my opinion we cannot term any other part of Of pHYSICAL APPEARANCE as TEMPLE .<< Of course not. I don't remember referring to physical attributes. if u recall one of my initial posts at TANTRISM i had mentioned "EVERY THOUGHT THAT OCCURS IN OUR HEART IS ABSOLUTELY PURE & CENT PERCENT TRUTH BUT AS SOON AS IT IS ROUTED THROUGH OUR BRAIN , IT IS BOUND TO HAVE A PERCENT OF DILUTION MOST TIMES DECEIVING NO MATTER HOW MINIMAL "<<< That I totally agree with. also , suppose u try (i tried) to look at the temple (or ALTAR of urs ) in ur brain to offer ur prayers just exactly as it is , where would u ? but if u visualise in ur heart ,u can see the minutest details & offer prayers as u do in real life ... Yes there is a difference between the brain offering the prayers and the heart offering devotion."> Just to confound you and myself further, the "Temple can also be in the Mind" (the Self, no?)... :-) The "Mind" influences "destiny" in a large way too. "<< Different people define "the Mind" in different ways according to how their soul processes thoughts and feelings. I was just wondering how others would see it or define it. In other words, I was interested in other people's "Personal Truths" if they care to share them (there is no obligation though). I do not define nor discern in this case. I only want to learn.********* well agreed it does influence our destiny but does it become a temple due to that << No from a spiritual perspective but yes for those into the material. , are temples (if used in literal terms) supposed to influence our destiny? << No unless one is either ascetic (they carry their temple with them wherever they go :-)or probably for those who are mainly engaged in the material/mundane. then how does our brain influences our destiny? << Man's mind (character) is his fate. People can move mountains or change the shape of one but the "base" or "core nature" of man's character is a different kettle of fish. It can only unfold through time whether it changes or evolves. Or stays put. well, simple , DUE TO OUR THOUGHT PROCESS OF BRAINS WE TEND TO TAKE ACTIONS & AT TIMES WHICH ARE AGAINST WHATS BEEN PREDESTINED ,<< Blessed are those who can – these moulders of circumstances who are able to shape the clay of his/her life into a form he/she finds pleasing or rightful. AS SUCH IT INFLUENCES OUR DESTINY TOO (sorry for caps)in a large way. also , in terms of spirituality , it many times causes hindrance by questioning etc. etc,<< Yes it can. Some are happy not to question and see that as Personal Path. Others are inclined to question. Either way, its their Personal Choice. (Its either the heart or the mind that makes choices.) Depends on which they want to listen to. sop again a huge influence , as at least most INDIAN (HINDU) GURUS WANT COMPLETE UNQUESTIONABLE DEDICATION "********<<< I realise that… However, I'm one of those eccentric eclectics who goes for only the "Inner Guru" - the Ishta Devata.. and to know Him is to offer total unquestionable devotion. Mad woman? I might have strayed from the subject a bit.. but hope I still make sense. What say you Rajatji, when Lord Ganesh circumnavigated around his parents while His Brother did it in a physical sense? And Ganesh won approval to marry the Lady. Did Lord Ganesh use his heart or his mind? And when He wrote the Mahabharita, which did he use? I'm scratching my head over this. Perhaps you can impart your wisdom in this regard? Only when you have time and feel like teaching me or us here. No hurry. Thank you and Jai Rajatybhai! Om Shanti, Sy younghornycpl <younghornycpl > wrote: :)SY,Well, would be grateful ,if u could elaborate on "Well said on your part actually" , i mean , if u have further additions or disagreements , would please love to knowthanxDo You ? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Greetings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2002 Report Share Posted March 3, 2002 ))))))SYJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, pranaam , hows u? am verrry sorrrry for being away 4 sooooo long & being indecent not to respond at the very moment ,newaz sorry again....... "> Ya running loops round my head or what?! " ******heyyy , nowaz , its just wud love to exchange views & learn ******* "> well, in this case i tend to disagree , as imo, when we use the term TEMPLE <<<<<< Everyone's got their own "personal truths" and that includes their individual definition of "Temple". " ****** u verrry right , i do beleive in personal truths, what i meant waz that , i personally donot agree , but am willing to go thru the reasons of ur thoughts & if satisfied (on personal basis) would even accept those facts & then think again over the whole ,thought***** "> I am not disagreeing with your "disagreement" presented here. Merely trying to find a balance between us and others who may feel differently (people I'd met here and there & there's plenty of them out there)." ********well, i do understand & thats what wud love to know , i mean other view points too (rather wanted all in group to share their views so we cud all exchange & learn )******* > > > > > > just for example if one thing goes wrong, then another , then another , its our brain which makes us question "HEY GURUJI/GOD/DESS , R U ACTUALLY THERE, IF YOU ARE THEN WHY YOU DOING THIS , NAW ITS JUST NOT THERE" etc. etc.<<< Doubts? No man, no woman, no "Body", no one, Nothing, no problem! (From a different perspective, the harder the austerities the Guru/God/Goddess puts us through, the stronger we will become, that is, if we could last the distance). > > > >" but our HEART would correct us , no , you are wrong , cmon ,HE is there & seeing etc.etc. so in my opinion we cannot term any other part of Of pHYSICAL APPEARANCE as TEMPLE .<< Of course not. I don't remember referring to physical attributes. " **8hey , i know ,u did in no way refer to physical attributes, it was all said by me in continuation ,with the complete mail , just to profound my beleif******** > >" also , suppose u try (i tried) to look at the > temple (or ALTAR of urs ) in ur brain to offer ur prayers just exactly as it is , where would u ? but if u visualise in ur heart ,u can see the minutest details & offer prayers as u do in real life ... Yes there is a difference between the brain offering the prayers and the heart offering devotion." ** yeah u right there, though , imo , a prayer alwaz comes out of devotion , thats y i say its rarely people offer prayers but rather beg ****** > > "> Just to confound you and myself further, the "Temple can also be in the Mind" (the Self, no?)... :-) The "Mind" influences "destiny" in a large way too. "<< Different people define "the Mind" in different ways according to how their soul processes thoughts and feelings. I was just wondering how others would see it or define it. In other words, I was interested in other people's "Personal Truths" if they care to share them (there is no obligation though). I do not define nor discern in this case. I only want to learn." **8 even i am interested in same , learning from others thoughts & beleifs ******* > > " well agreed it does influence our destiny but does it become a temple due to that << No from a spiritual perspective but yes for those into the material." **hmmmm, thats a point, well, if we talk of materially ,ummmm, well, yeah ok maybe ****** > > > > , "are temples (if used in literal terms) > supposed to influence our destiny? << No unless one is either ascetic (they carry their temple with them wherever they go :-)or probably for those who are mainly engaged in the material/mundane." *******8as above , though , imo, temple does not effect our destiny , its just a place to offer devotion , where the DEITY resides etc ********** > > "sop again a huge influence , as at least most INDIAN (HINDU) GURUS WANT COMPLETE UNQUESTIONABLE DEDICATION "********<<< I realise that… However, I'm one of those eccentric eclectics who goes for only the "Inner Guru" - the Ishta Devata.. and to know Him is to offer total unquestionable devotion. " ************** > > "What say you Rajatji, when Lord Ganesh circumnavigated around his parents while His Brother did it in a physical sense? And Ganesh won approval to marry the Lady. Did Lord Ganesh use his heart or his mind? " *****well, u right , he must ave used his brains , but firstly, does that make the brain a temple or just a place from where the idea occurs of how to construct temple ? secondly, had it been done without devotion from heart would it have been accepted ? thirdly, maybe his brain would hv said HEY GANESH, DONT BE STUPID , Y WOULD THEY ACCEPT IT AS UNIVERSE BUT HIS HEART MIGHT HAVE SAID, CMON GANESH THEY ARE UR PARENTS , & FOR U THEY R THE UNIVERSE SO DO IT , DONT LISTEN TO THE STUPID QUESTIONING OF UR BRAIN? what u say SYJEEEEE? **** "And when He wrote the Mahabharita, which did he use? " **8well, does writing mahabharata makes his mind a temple ? if yes , plz can u explain how & why ? & then does'nt all writers of fiction hv temples in brain ?****** "I'm scratching my head over this." *******& i now am going mad crathching my head trying to get something out of brain , ****** regards JAI AMBEY, rajatyyyyyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2002 Report Share Posted March 4, 2002 Eh Rajatji!! Pranam and delighted to see you back after so long! You'd been missed too, like Bill and all the others. Hope they will come back soon too and join us here. At the moment my head is running loops around itself and I'm going grey and somewhat also crazy. Have several matters to attend to elsewhere as you could probably see from the other group where Neilji is away and I'd been posting the great works he put together. Please bear with me for some time and I'll get back into a proper chat with you when I'm free of other matters. Can't think straight right now about spiritual matters (Ishta Devata help me! :-) Om Shanti Sy , "younghornycpl" <younghornycpl> wrote: > > ))))))SYJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, > pranaam , > hows u? am verrry sorrrry for being away 4 sooooo long & being > indecent not to respond at the very moment ,newaz sorry again....... > > "> Ya running loops round my head or what?! " > > ******heyyy , nowaz , its just wud love to exchange views & learn > ******* > > > "> well, in this case i tend to disagree , as imo, when we use the > term TEMPLE <<<<<< Everyone's got their own "personal truths" and > that includes their individual definition of "Temple". " > > ****** u verrry right , i do beleive in personal truths, what i meant > waz that , i personally donot agree , but am willing to go thru the > reasons of ur thoughts & if satisfied (on personal basis) would even > accept those facts & then think again over the whole ,thought***** > > > "> I am not disagreeing with your "disagreement" presented here. > Merely trying to find a balance between us and others who may feel > differently (people I'd met here and there & there's plenty of them > out there)." > ********well, i do understand & thats what wud love to know , i mean > other view points too (rather wanted all in group to share their > views so we cud all exchange & learn )******* > > > > > > > > > > > > just for example if one thing goes wrong, then another , then > another , its our brain which makes us question "HEY > GURUJI/GOD/DESS , R U ACTUALLY THERE, IF YOU ARE THEN WHY YOU DOING > THIS , NAW ITS JUST NOT THERE" etc. etc.<<< Doubts? No man, no > woman, no "Body", no one, Nothing, no problem! (From a different > perspective, the harder the austerities the Guru/God/Goddess puts us > through, the stronger we will become, that is, if we could last the > distance). > > > > > > > >" but our HEART would correct us , no , you are wrong , cmon ,HE is > there & seeing etc.etc. so in my opinion we cannot term any other > part of Of pHYSICAL APPEARANCE as TEMPLE .<< Of course not. I don't > remember referring to physical attributes. " > > **8hey , i know ,u did in no way refer to physical attributes, it was > all said by me in continuation ,with the complete mail , just to > profound my beleif******** > > > > >" also , suppose u try (i tried) to look at the > > temple (or ALTAR of urs ) in ur brain to offer ur prayers just > exactly as it is , where would u ? but if u visualise in ur heart ,u > can see the minutest details & offer prayers as u do in real life ... > Yes there is a difference between the brain offering the prayers and > the heart offering devotion." > > ** yeah u right there, though , imo , a prayer alwaz comes out of > devotion , thats y i say its rarely people offer prayers but rather > beg ****** > > > > "> Just to confound you and myself further, the "Temple can also be > in the Mind" (the Self, no?)... :-) The "Mind" influences "destiny" > in a large way too. "<< Different people define "the Mind" in > different ways according to how their soul processes thoughts and > feelings. I was just wondering how others would see it or define > it. In other words, I was interested in other people's "Personal > Truths" if they care to share them (there is no obligation though). > I do not define nor discern in this case. I only want to learn." > > **8 even i am interested in same , learning from others thoughts & > beleifs ******* > > > > " well agreed it does influence our destiny but does it become a > temple due to that << No from a spiritual perspective but yes for > those into the material." > > **hmmmm, thats a point, well, if we talk of materially ,ummmm, well, > yeah ok maybe ****** > > > > > > > > , "are temples (if used in literal terms) > > supposed to influence our destiny? << No unless one is either > ascetic (they carry their temple with them wherever they go :-)or > probably for those who are mainly engaged in the material/mundane." > > *******8as above , though , imo, temple does not effect our destiny , > its just a place to offer devotion , where the DEITY resides etc > ********** > > > > > > "sop again a huge influence , as at least most INDIAN (HINDU) > GURUS WANT COMPLETE UNQUESTIONABLE DEDICATION "********<<< I realise > that… However, I'm one of those eccentric eclectics who goes for only > the "Inner Guru" - the Ishta Devata.. and to know Him is to offer > total unquestionable devotion. " > ************** > > > > "What say you Rajatji, when Lord Ganesh circumnavigated around his > parents while His Brother did it in a physical sense? And Ganesh won > approval to marry the Lady. Did Lord Ganesh use his heart or his > mind? " > > *****well, u right , he must ave used his brains , but firstly, does > that make the brain a temple or just a place from where the idea > occurs of how to construct temple ? secondly, had it been done > without devotion from heart would it have been accepted ? thirdly, > maybe his brain would hv said HEY GANESH, DONT BE STUPID , Y WOULD > THEY ACCEPT IT AS UNIVERSE BUT HIS HEART MIGHT HAVE SAID, CMON GANESH > THEY ARE UR PARENTS , & FOR U THEY R THE UNIVERSE SO DO IT , DONT > LISTEN TO THE STUPID QUESTIONING OF UR BRAIN? what u say SYJEEEEE? > **** > > "And when He wrote the Mahabharita, which did he use? " > > **8well, does writing mahabharata makes his mind a temple ? if yes , > plz can u explain how & why ? & then does'nt all writers of fiction > hv temples in brain ?****** > > "I'm scratching my head over this." *******& i now am going mad > crathching my head trying to get something out of brain , ****** > > > regards > JAI AMBEY, > rajatyyyyyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.