Guest guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Dear All, I simply want to state my opinion that the purpose of meditation, of whatever kind, is increased sensitivity to one's mind and body. This sensitivity increases one's love and compassion toward both oneself and others. Thus, for the record, I want to state that I believe it important that meditation not be made into an egotistical endurance contest or a military exercise. For these desensitize one and reduce one's capacity for love and compassion because they become a kind of competition for power. Therefore, when people ask if it is advisable to endure numbing of limbs, boredom, visions of suffering, I say, "No it is most decidedly not." Suffering is suffering, period. As Christ said, "If a thirsty man asks for a drink of water, do you give him a stone?" (Or do you say, "Good, a few more days and you'll see that thirst is just an illusion"?) warm love ~*~ sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Sat Nam, Sky! I see your point on suffering and somehow I am with you with it. However, if meditation is supposed to increase sensitivity - which in turn increases love and compassion towards oneself and others, as you says - I wonder how this is possible without a previous cleaning process of all the "garbage" that each one of us is dragging along. My hope is that if we get rid of it, our ego doesn't need to "protect" itself and deal with its problems anymore. In this way, love and compassion that each of us has for the others (most of the time without even knowing it) are free to come to the light. Love and blessings, Sat Sarbat Kaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2000 Report Share Posted October 10, 2000 Dear Sat Sarbat Kaur, Thank you for honoring me both with a response and with understanding. I feel that you bring up a very important point, to me. And I want to respond to it with all the emphasis I can, without being disrespectful of your position, which I believe I understand: You ask, it seems, rhetorically, how can one have "compassion towards oneself and others...without a previous cleaning process of all the 'garbage' that each one of us is dragging along." But I will answer this question, not rhetorically, but very honestly, very earnestly and very practically: It is precisely, precisely, our lack of compassion, our lack of sensitivity, our lack of love, that calls absolutely anything, anything, "garbage"--while insensitively, and without love or compassion, "dragging along." Please forgive me for being so adamant, but this attitude is precisely what I believe meditation is meant to transform. The purpose of life, I honestly believe is to see that the negative is to be hnored and only thus, transformed into the positive through love, through respect and understanding. It is only our lack of love and compassion that calls anything negative in the first place. In love and compassion, all things are perfect right now, right here... I hope I've neither overstated nor understated my point. Please try to understand it, and why it is so important to me, whether you accept or reject it. Thank you. warm love ~*~ sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Sat Nam, dear friends: This business of pain and suffering is an interesting one to me because it relates to the series of synchronicities (I don't believe in the concept of "coincidence") that led me to Kundalini yoga. My first career was as a computer programmer, and I suffered from a variety of carpal tunnel syndrome for many years - eventually it became what the doctors called "degenerative neuropathy" - after they relabelled me, they gave me a disability rating and told me I could never use the computer again (you can probably tell that they were wrong In fact, within six months of beginning a serious practice of KY, the problems began to subside, and now, several years later, I am essentially cured - rather to the confusion of the (conventional) medical establishment. I learned a lot of good things along the way - here is one to ponder. Pain and suffering are not the same thing. Pain, depending on your definition, is either the electrical/chemical signal that goes to your brain, or the brain's recognition of that signal. Suffering, however, is an emotional response to pain (and to other things) and is, therefore, a choice at a certain level. Another: at teacher training we were taught to distinguish between pain and discomfort. This is the way I interpret the difference: Pain is caused by doing something you shouldn't, like doing a posture incorrectly, or putting pressure on some part of your body that you have injured. Discomfort, however, is what results from, for example, doing stretch pose for five seconds longer than you ever have before. Is it fun? Not unless you are a masochist. Is it good for you? I doubt that YB would ask us to achieve 3 minutes in so many, many sets, if it weren't. So what about the harder meditations - for example, doing Sat Kriya for 62 minutes, as many of us did this year at Solstice. I am not going to tell you that it didn't hurt - or (woops!) cause me a lot of discomfort. Meditation is about increased sensitivity to oneself, but it is also about clearing emotional blockages, which is often uncomfortable. It is also about processing all sorts of thoughts and feelings, changing our habits of awareness, removing the barriers erected by the needs of the ego (such as the need to suffer or the desire to avoid pain). The more challenging meditations are incredibly effective for doing this sort of work. When I first went to teacher training, I had never done Sat Kriya for more than 11 minutes (and barely made that). They had us do 31 minutes. It was hard! It was quite uncomfortable! It was totally a wonderful experience! I broke through an important barrier about my limits. What I realized was that we only have limitations because we think we do - and YB said exactly those words (in his own inimitable style) in the evening lecture that day. And I came home knowing that I could do 31 minutes. I came home someone quite different than the person who had left for teacher training two weeks before, having achieved a new level of self- respect, having discarded a lack of self-worth that I had been carrying since childhood, having discovered self-love, having learned to express love for others, having learned to accept love from others... My point is that many KY meditations, particularly the ones that have you hold your arms above your head, can get pretty uncomfortable pretty quickly. But anybody who has practiced them on a regular basis will tell you that they also work pretty quickly, to help you release emotional blocks, and so forth. (BTW, there are a variety of different tricks that are helpful with these meditations - the most valuable for me is that once you've assumed the correct position, do your best not to move. The longer I can go without moving, the easier the meditation is.) It is possible to experience significant discomfort without suffering, just as it is possible for people to suffer in silence for their whole lives without any direct source of discomfort - or without choosing to do anything about it. KY is a grand opportunity to eliminate the suffering - that doesn't mean there won't be a little discomfort or some boredom along the way. Many of the harder asanas and meditations are designed to strengthen the nervous system and pressurize aspects of the physical body that maintain our emotional blockages - working on these areas can be uncomfortable at both the physical and emotional level. As the blocks subside, so does the discomfort. Don't hurt yourselves! Don't suffer. But don't be unwilling to push yourself - or let your teacher pull you - beyond your limits. If you are gentle and gradual and loving to yourself - and once in a while attend an event like Solstice or a White Tantric where you will exceed your limits (and the energy of the other folks will help support you), you will grow and progress and learn, faster than you may have thought possible. With all my love, Sadhant Singh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Sat Nam, I have recently ended a long term relationship of six and a half years... not by my choice... but by my partners, I am still deeply in love with him...we are trying to remain friends...but I am emotionally devastated , hurt and my heart chakra is aching severely... it became so bad the other day that I thought I was having angina symptoms and went to the emergency room to have it checked... I came out with a clean bill of health..after EKG, chest Xray and numerous tests. The symptoms went away for a day or so and now they are back... strong as ever....it feels just like angina at the onset of a heart attack.. the pain is in an area about the size of a quarter or a fifty cent piece directly over my heart chakra and goes straight through my heart chakra to my back...and at times radiates down my left arm with tingling, numbness and into my neck...which is what scared me enough to go to the hospital... is there a mantra I can use or a position that will help me clear this...I started taking St. John's Wort for depression and it is helping me to keep functioning at a slightly below normal level and keeping my emotions from going haywire... I have been doing walking for at least one hour sometimes two hours a day and doing the SA TA NA MA mantra and breathing in a rhythmical manner with my steps and it is helping me cope much better...I notice that when the St. John's Wort begins to wear off and my emotional state gets worse the pain comes back or gets worse.....I firmly believe that emotional and mental states and negative thoughts cause disease in the body and I don't want this to develop into any other problems.... Qetesh - Sadhant Singh <kundaliniyoga <Kundaliniyoga > Wednesday, October 11, 2000 5:19 PM Re: suffering > Sat Nam, dear friends: > > This business of pain and suffering is an interesting one to me > because it relates to the series of synchronicities (I don't believe > in the concept of "coincidence") that led me to Kundalini yoga. > > My first career was as a computer programmer, and I suffered from a > variety of carpal tunnel syndrome for many years - eventually it > became what the doctors called "degenerative neuropathy" - after they > relabelled me, they gave me a disability rating and told me I could > never use the computer again (you can probably tell that they were > wrong > > In fact, within six months of beginning a serious practice of KY, the > problems began to subside, and now, several years later, I am > essentially cured - rather to the confusion of the (conventional) > medical establishment. > > I learned a lot of good things along the way - here is one to > ponder. Pain and suffering are not the same thing. Pain, depending > on your definition, is either the electrical/chemical signal that > goes to your brain, or the brain's recognition of that signal. > Suffering, however, is an emotional response to pain (and to other > things) and is, therefore, a choice at a certain level. > > Another: at teacher training we were taught to distinguish between > pain and discomfort. This is the way I interpret the difference: > > Pain is caused by doing something you shouldn't, like doing a posture > incorrectly, or putting pressure on some part of your body that you > have injured. Discomfort, however, is what results from, for > example, doing stretch pose for five seconds longer than you ever > have before. Is it fun? Not unless you are a masochist. Is it good > for you? I doubt that YB would ask us to achieve 3 minutes in so > many, many sets, if it weren't. > > So what about the harder meditations - for example, doing Sat Kriya > for 62 minutes, as many of us did this year at Solstice. I am not > going to tell you that it didn't hurt - or (woops!) cause me a lot of > discomfort. > > Meditation is about increased sensitivity to oneself, but it is also > about clearing emotional blockages, which is often uncomfortable. It > is also about processing all sorts of thoughts and feelings, changing > our habits of awareness, removing the barriers erected by the needs > of the ego (such as the need to suffer or the desire to avoid pain). > The more challenging meditations are incredibly effective for doing > this sort of work. > > When I first went to teacher training, I had never done Sat Kriya for > more than 11 minutes (and barely made that). They had us do 31 > minutes. It was hard! It was quite uncomfortable! It was totally a > wonderful experience! I broke through an important barrier about my > limits. What I realized was that we only have limitations because we > think we do - and YB said exactly those words (in his own inimitable > style) in the evening lecture that day. > > And I came home knowing that I could do 31 minutes. I came home > someone quite different than the person who had left for teacher > training two weeks before, having achieved a new level of self- > respect, having discarded a lack of self-worth that I had been > carrying since childhood, having discovered self-love, having learned > to express love for others, having learned to accept love from > others... > > My point is that many KY meditations, particularly the ones that have > you hold your arms above your head, can get pretty uncomfortable > pretty quickly. But anybody who has practiced them on a regular > basis will tell you that they also work pretty quickly, to help you > release emotional blocks, and so forth. (BTW, there are a variety of > different tricks that are helpful with these meditations - the most > valuable for me is that once you've assumed the correct position, do > your best not to move. The longer I can go without moving, the > easier the meditation is.) > > It is possible to experience significant discomfort without > suffering, just as it is possible for people to suffer in silence for > their whole lives without any direct source of discomfort - or > without choosing to do anything about it. KY is a grand opportunity > to eliminate the suffering - that doesn't mean there won't be a > little discomfort or some boredom along the way. Many of the harder > asanas and meditations are designed to strengthen the nervous system > and pressurize aspects of the physical body that maintain our > emotional blockages - working on these areas can be uncomfortable at > both the physical and emotional level. As the blocks subside, so > does the discomfort. > > Don't hurt yourselves! Don't suffer. But don't be unwilling to push > yourself - or let your teacher pull you - beyond your limits. If you > are gentle and gradual and loving to yourself - and once in a while > attend an event like Solstice or a White Tantric where you will > exceed your limits (and the energy of the other folks will help > support you), you will grow and progress and learn, faster than you > may have thought possible. > > With all my love, > Sadhant Singh > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > - Yogi Bhajan > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > Kundaliniyoga- > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Popular publishers since 1988 of books on Kundalini Yoga and Meditation. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Dear Qetesh, Yes, I sure know what you mean about the pain in the heart chakra!! I used to get it all the time!! But what I've discovered, at least for myself, is that it's due to a block in the belly chakra, for the most part, but also the throat chakra. Here's the way I see it: when I felt rejected, I felt powerless (belly chakra), as though the person I wanted to be with had all the power and I had none. I also felt as though the only way to get that power back was through communication (throat chakra) with the rejecter. But I was able to overcome the heart ache by seeing the "loss" as an Opportunity. This made me feel free and self-reliant, thus opening and stimulating my power chakra. Repeating the "opportunity mantra," opened my throat chakra, too, as I shared my power (vs the lack of it) with others, further opening both the belly and the throat chakras. As a result, my heart ache went away and I felt liberated, empowered and connected to others. I hope something like this might work for you. Best of wishes. warm love ~*~ sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2000 Report Share Posted October 11, 2000 Dear Sky, Thankyou so much for your reply...this has helped me so much Qetesh - <raaaa1234 <Kundaliniyoga > Wednesday, October 11, 2000 7:52 PM Re: Re: suffering > Dear Qetesh, > > Yes, I sure know what you mean about the pain in the heart chakra!! > I used to get it all the time!! But what I've discovered, at least for > myself, is that it's due to a block in the belly chakra, for the most > part, but also the throat chakra. > > Here's the way I see it: when I felt rejected, I felt powerless > (belly chakra), as though the person I wanted to be with had all the > power and I had none. I also felt as though the only way to get that > power back was through communication (throat chakra) with the rejecter. > > But I was able to overcome the heart ache by seeing the "loss" as an > Opportunity. This made me feel free and self-reliant, thus opening and > stimulating my power chakra. Repeating the "opportunity mantra," opened > my throat chakra, too, as I shared my power (vs the lack of it) with > others, further opening both the belly and the throat chakras. > > As a result, my heart ache went away and I felt liberated, empowered > and connected to others. > > I hope something like this might work for you. Best of wishes. > > warm > love > ~*~ > sky > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > - Yogi Bhajan > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > Kundaliniyoga- > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Popular publishers since 1988 of books on Kundalini Yoga and Meditation. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2000 Report Share Posted October 12, 2000 You sound like an Abhyasi of the Sahaj Marg system of Raja Yoga ! Ive been practicing that particular system myself now for a little over two years now. I very much like what you had to say........................ for info on sahaj marg; http:// www.srcm.org Chozzar777..................Biloxi, MS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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