karma

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/8/00 2:43:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,

claudiagiovani writes:

 

<< Let me tell also that I believe in a very loving God. I really don't

believe He will ever teach me lessons by punishing me or ruining my

life. I really don't believe in a Celestial Court judging us all the

time. >>

 

 

Why wouldn't a loving God punish you to teach you a lesson? We are creatures

that learn like most do, by conditioning. If we put our hand in boiling

water, our bodies feel pain so that we know not to do that. If we see our

kids running out into the street where cars could come and hit them, and they

are too young to understand our higher powers of commmunication, it is not

out of love for them that we scold them, hoping that they will in this way

learn never to do that again? If we do not in some way negatively reinforce

undesirable behavior, learning is harder to come by. The most humane and

loving acts teach us the most clearly and easily the things we do that hurt

us, or stray us from our happiest state, or our most fulffilled destiny, if

you will. Since God has a higher knowledge than we do, just like we have with

small children, why would He not "punish" us as a way to show us that the

road we are pursuing is unwise and that there is a better aternative that

does not come with the pains of "punishment"? And as we turn down a different

road where happiness awaits, we are similarly rewarded for our proper choice.

 

 

I think this is consistent with thinking that there are no mistakes, which

I've seen written previously on this site. That is, so long as we are alwyas

learning. But I do think that if one unwittingly strays from their destiny,

if they do not heed the signs that they have strayed, maybe then mistakes are

made. The way I see it, a loving God cannot help but to give us signs. Call

it Karma, if you will. It is our challenge to recognize when our acts and

deeds are being condoned or "punished" by paying close attention to both our

acts and the feedback we receive. If our lives get ruined, as you say, it

must be because we have ignored all the signs for correcting our strayed path

and have travelled down it anyway. I would not ascribe that to God. He can

give us that with which to see, and that which we must see, but He cannot see

for us.

 

Just a thought.

 

Sat Nam,

Susan

[Guest guest]

I agree completely. Like I said, we only make mistakes when re repeat the

things we do that bring us pain. If we attract the wrong person, to use your

example, and it causes us pain or problems, then I do not view this as

punishment but rather a gift of knowledge. And you're right, that if we do it

again, we are punishing ourselves. (Perhaps we just misread the sign as

telling us that we need to change the dynamic with such people, instead of

pursuing a different course/type of person entirely.) But I assumed that the

original author (to whom I responded), when talking about God punishing us,

was probably talking about all the stuff that scolds us as though we were

kids running out into the street. You're right though, it isn't punishment,

because its designed to help, not hurt us, but that was the point I was

trying to make too.

 

I also agree that KY can help us find the love and joy within ourselves that

enables us to act more lovingly toward the world in a way the world responds

to. I too have seen this with myself. I think it also frees out minds so that

we are better able to observe the signs we get from which we may learn, and

embrace them as gifts, instead of seeing them as punishments.

 

SN,

 

S

[Guest guest]

I'm enjoying your discussion on karma very much. For those of us

interested in ky I think getting our spiritual name is a great help

because it's meaning is the highest destiny we can aspire to. It keeps

it in one's face. I don't use my spiritual name outside my practice and

my contact with like-minded others , but have still found it a great help

in keeping aware of the different choices in everyday life and where

they can lead.

 

It is possible to train oneself to be aware of one's intuition at all

times . It is hard, and takes a long time - I spent ten years doing it

before I came to ky - but it is not only possible but very desirable.

It involves taking a minute to feel what is right in any given situation

before taking action. I'm sure it would have been far easier to learn if

I had been doing ky also . I think one's intention also plays a large

part - it depends on how eager one is to leave the ego behind. One can

always regress at any time too - that old ego is always ready to jump in

and take centre stage at all times !!!!!

 

Love and Blessings,

Avtar

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[Guest guest]

Sat Nam!

 

I have found the following books helpful for understanding the meaning of karma.

 

How To Know God, Isherwood and Prabhavananda

The Simple Path, Dalai Llama

Karma, Swami Rama.

 

Steve Porter

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, im my humble opionion. God doesn't need to punish us, we as humans are

very good at doing this ourselves. One of the ways I (as I can only speak on my

own behalf) have done this is to have similiar experiences happen over and over

again, An example might be in finances, or relationships. For example one hears

people say. "How come I always attract this...." or "How come I can't seem to

get..." I feel that these "always" happen because I chose the same response or

felt a certain way about myself. When I change these for the better. I change

the outcome. Its talked about often this phenomenon, but it holds true for me. I

consider these my "lessons". And perhaps we don't need to know them all at once.

 

I used to have the same question. How can I love myself and then love others. I

used to hate the saying "well until you love yourself". One of the wonderful

things about KY is that you create inner peace and you can have that feeling of

love, happiness or whatever and it starts to mutilply for you. I tried to do it

with willpower but the adage about mind/body/spirit is true. You need to work on

them all and KY does that. My new attitude had changed the way people respond to

me. I think thats been the best karma for me.

 

If one is sick as my Godmother was with cancer. One can raise money, be positive

for others. She may not have cured her "body" But she helped cure her own

spirits as she helped others. I too wish I knew why children got so sick and

accidents happen that tear our hearts, I guess thats part of living also.

 

Good luck on your paper!

 

Thats is it from me...sorry for the length

Sat Nam

Deb

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam Deb,

 

Now I am understanding you. Thanks for answering.

 

Friday, December 08, 2000, 8:48:29 PM, you wrote:

 

d> Well, im my humble opionion. God doesn't need to punish us, we as

d> humans are very good at doing this ourselves.

 

That's it!

 

d> One of the ways I (as

d> I can only speak on my own behalf) have done this is to have

d> similiar experiences happen over and over again, An example might

d> be in finances, or relationships. For example one hears people say.

d> "How come I always attract this...." or "How come I can't seem to

d> get..." I feel that these "always" happen because I chose the same

d> response or felt a certain way about myself. When I change these

d> for the better. I change the outcome. Its talked about often this

d> phenomenon, but it holds true for me. I consider these my

d> "lessons". And perhaps we don't need to know them all at once.

 

Perfect! My lessons are similar to yours and we are talking about the

same things now.

 

d> Good luck on your paper!

 

You all are helping me a lot!

 

d> Thats is it from me...sorry for the length

 

That's all? So short! Please, write more and don't worry about the

length. I loved to read you ideas and am thinking about and learning

with them. Thanks.

 

Love&Sat Nam

Claudia

claudiagiovani

[Guest guest]

Sat Nam,

 

No discussion of karma is complete without the discussion of dharma.

 

Avtar's words and those of Sadhant Singh specifically lead to the purpose of

any spiritual path -- to lead us from a life of karma to a life of dharma.

 

In a life of karma we are always trying to balance out conflicts and work

off the cause and effect of our actions. Cause and effect is a law of the

universe so that rules in dharmic ways of living as well. Cause and effect

is the double edge sword which keeps up honest and integrity with ourselves,

others and the universe.

 

The difference is that the more we align with our destiny, our divine

purpose, natural laws, our unique expression, our service and our spiritual

path, the more we are aligned with universal energies. Instead of balancing

out energy and paying off energy debts, we flow and expand with universal

forces.

 

Dharma is a spiritual way of life. Our outer goals align and support the

evolution of our soul. Our worldly pursuits promote the evolution of the

universe toward the full expression and embodiment of divine love.

 

May everyone be blessed to listen to their soul and follow their dharma.

 

Sat Nam,

 

Gururattan Kaur

 

 

For those of us

> interested in ky I think getting our spiritual name is a great help

> because it's meaning is the highest destiny we can aspire to. It keeps it

in one's face. I don't use my spiritual name outside my practice and

> my contact with like-minded others , but have still found it a great help

> in keeping aware of the different choices in everyday life and where

> they can lead.

>

> It is possible to train oneself to be aware of one's intuition at all

> times . It is hard, and takes a long time - I spent ten years doing it

> before I came to ky - but it is not only possible but very desirable.

> It involves taking a minute to feel what is right in any given situation

> before taking action. I'm sure it would have been far easier to learn if

> I had been doing ky also . I think one's intention also plays a large

> part - it depends on how eager one is to leave the ego behind. One can

> always regress at any time too - that old ego is always ready to jump in

> and take centre stage at all times !!!!!

[Guest guest]

Dear Agali,

 

> Would you please explain more about "your karmas are

> paid for, or gotten rid of". Is there a way to do so?

 

Yes fortunately there are such ways. Loving selfless service (without the

intention of getting anything out of it for yourself), chanting, meditation,

not responding to anger with anger, going through unhappy times happily are

a few things that will help. If there were no ways to lighten your karma

load we'd never make it out of here ; )!

 

A Kundalini awakening "eats up" even more of your accumulated karma. But

then you have to be careful not to accumulate more from then on. It is not

just bad karma (from doing bad actions) that is a problem. So is positive

karma (from doing good actions with the intention of reaping benefits). So

ideally it is said you should try to live your life as service - if you want

nothing for yourself, you will be given everything you need. Yogi Bhajan

said that there are two ways to live: one is to run after things, the other

to let things come to you.

 

Many blessings,

Satsang Kaur