Guest guest Posted December 8, 2000 Report Share Posted December 8, 2000 Sat Nam Susan, I can only speak based on my own experience. Friday, December 08, 2000, 9:02:15 PM, you wrote: Iac> In a message dated 12/8/00 2:43:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, Iac> claudiagiovani writes: Iac> << Let me tell also that I believe in a very loving God. I really don't Iac> believe He will ever teach me lessons by punishing me or ruining my Iac> life. I really don't believe in a Celestial Court judging us all the Iac> time. >> Iac> Why wouldn't a loving God punish you to teach you a lesson? I don't believe that the end justify the means. The world is in war in the name of the peace!!!! If one wants peace he must use pacific means. A loving God that wants to teach me how to be a loving person must have loving means to achieve His loving end. Well, that's my idea of God. Iac> We are creatures Iac> that learn like most do, by conditioning. If we put our hand in boiling Iac> water, our bodies feel pain so that we know not to do that. If we see our Iac> kids running out into the street where cars could come and hit them, and they Iac> are too young to understand our higher powers of commmunication, it is not Iac> out of love for them that we scold them, hoping that they will in this way Iac> learn never to do that again? If we do not in some way negatively reinforce Iac> undesirable behavior, learning is harder to come by. The most humane and Iac> loving acts teach us the most clearly and easily the things we do that hurt Iac> us, or stray us from our happiest state, or our most fulffilled destiny, if Iac> you will. A loving father/mother never punishs a child because she doesn't know how to eat using knife and fork or because she doesn't know that cars can hurt them. A child may burn her hand by herself. But her mother will never teach her that boiling water burns putting her little hand inside a hot water pan. The child will be afraid of her mother, that's the lesson she'll learn! As many of us are afraid of some kind of Celestial Court, and afraid of God's punishment. The point is that most of us were raised believing that punishment is the only way one can definitively learn a lesson. We are used to it and don't reflect about what it implies. The wars, even inside our homes, testify our lack of reflection. (The most tragic wars happens inside our homes!) We have exactly what we believe in. I chose to believe in Love. Jesus said something like that. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap" Iac>Since God has a higher knowledge than we do, just like we have with Iac> small children, why would He not "punish" us as a way to show us that the Iac> road we are pursuing is unwise and that there is a better aternative that Iac> does not come with the pains of "punishment"? And as we turn down a different Iac> road where happiness awaits, we are similarly rewarded for our proper choice. He does not "punish" us because a loving God doesn't even know what "punishment" means. A vegetarian doesn't know where is the best butcher shop in town. But ask him about the best vegetables and fruits places and he'll make a long list for you! WE, human beings, are used to punish and to threaten people thinking that we are "teaching" something positive. Fortunately we can change our behavior when we understand what are the results. He, again, doesn't teach us the right path because He respect our choices. He lets us have all sort of experiences so that we can be more conscious about what we choose for us. Yes, we have what we choose, nothing more, nothing less. What for He gave us the power of will if He'll punish me if I don't choose what He wants me to choose? I see that He wants us to exercise our will till we learn to use it. As Deb said, *God doesn't need to punish us, we as humans are very good at doing this ourselves*. Iac> I think this is consistent with thinking that there are no mistakes, which Iac> I've seen written previously on this site. That is, so long as we are alwyas Iac> learning. Yes, I agree. There is no mistakes indeed. A child that is learning how to stand up and walk will fall many times, but we know it is not a mistake, it is the process of learning. Iac> But I do think that if one unwittingly strays from their destiny, Iac> if they do not heed the signs that they have strayed, maybe then mistakes are Iac> made. The way I see it, a loving God cannot help but to give us signs. Call Iac> it Karma, if you will. It is our challenge to recognize when our acts and Iac> deeds are being condoned or "punished" by paying close attention to both our Iac> acts and the feedback we receive. If our lives get ruined, as you say, it Iac> must be because we have ignored all the signs for correcting our strayed path Iac> and have travelled down it anyway. I would not ascribe that to God. He can Iac> give us that with which to see, and that which we must see, but He cannot see Iac> for us. Yes again. He gave us some *tools* (discernment, intuition, rational minds, will, etc.) and wants us to learn how to use these tools. Let me understand your thinking: you are saying that a loving God cannot help but give us signs. I agree with that. But when our lives get ruined because we have ignored all those signs, you would not ascribe that to God. Where is His punishment in your example? Did I understand what you wrote? Iac> Just a thought. I like that! Your thought helped me to clarify some of my thoughts. Thanks. Gabyclau claudiagiovani Merry Christmas * . * (\ *** /) * . * * ( \(_)/ ) * * * (_/ \_) . * * /___\ * . * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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