Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 CAPS USED TO SEPARATE THE 2 WRITERS - Nina and John Murrell-Kisner <> Pieter Schoonheim Samara <pietersa Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:22 PM Body of text I would like to forward to KY e-group Hello, All. I would like to share and open to the e-group a line of conversation that has developed in an email exchange with Pieter Schoonheim Samara. The text is below my sign-off. I would be very interested to know what others think. Sat Nam. Nina ============================= ONCE YOU ISOLATE THE "SEER" THE "I" AS "I" A NEW PERSPECTIVE WILL DAWN THAT NATURALLY DISSOLVED THE IDENTITY OF THE "I" SENSE TO THE IMAGES AND THOUGHTS OF THE MIND. THEN YOU ABIDE IN AND AS THE SAT NAM WITHOUT THE IDEA OF A DOER OR CAUSE OR CONDITION TO WHO YOU ARE (SAT SIRI AKAL - ETERNAL TRUTH). SOMETIMES IT SEEMS THAT WE FORGET THAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE PRACTICE IS ONLY TO HELP FACILITATE THAT CONNECTION TO THE TRUTH THAT ABIDES IN US, WHICH IS THE SOURCE OF ALL THE ENERGY CONSCIOUSNESS AND SUBSTRATUM OF OUR EXISTENCE IMMANENT AND NEAR A HAND. AS LONG AS WE RECOGNIZE THIS, THE CONNECTION AND EVOLUTION WILL BE QUICK. IF WE DO NOT, THE PROGRESS MAY BE VERY SLOW, MUCH ENERGY AND LIGHT, BUT THERE WILL BE A SENSE OF MISSING SOMETHING, SOMETHING FORGOTTEN. ONCE THE CONNECTION IS MADE, THE ENERGY WE ARE WORKING ON RAISING WILL BECOME INSIGNIFICANT TO THE FLOOD OF LIGHT AND LIFE THAT FILLS US, WHICH FILLS US EVEN NOW, BUT FOR THE FOCUS OF ATTENTION OF THE LIGHT OF THE "I" SENSE INTO THOUGHTS AND IMAGES AND IMPRESSIONS THAT HAS US TEMPORARILY FORGETTING OUR SAT NAM. I think I can understand, definitely intellectually, if not otherwise, what you are describing. This idea has been percolating in me since you broadcast your paper on the purpose of spiritual practice. What I have come to wonder about in the past few days is: how the path one takes to the ultimate end may necessarily require a period of surprise by, focus on, and enjoyment of the energy and light. The energy and light may certainly serve the purpose of awakening a person... letting them know to look. It seems there could be many intensities and rhythms to connecting to a greater Sense... and that these intensities and rhythms will develop as the person grows in a spiritual sense. It seems that our bodies are designed to want to do yoga and to naturally connect with a greater Sense. During the winter, when I was having an extreme low-point, -not knowing- what the energy fluctuations meant, where they were coming from, etc., I found that I could -intuitively- do yoga postures: that by allowing my mind to open to a channel showing flows of postures, I could fabricate an entire routine. The thing that really astounded me was that I spontaneously went into postures that I had never seen before and had in the past not even imagined I could do (like lotus back bend, wheel pose with legs in splits, others that I don't even have names for...). The fascinating thing for me: when I finally did research, looking in, I believe (and I am uneducated), Patanjali's book that shows hundreds of postures, I found the postures I had moved into. P.S. I had done them perfectly without previous training or assistance. I just followed where my mind was telling me to place my body. This certainly isn't a unique happening. The guru for Kripalu yoga, I forget his name, did the same thing over a period of years and developed postures. Also, where did yoga come from originally if not from a collective mind and consciousness... and individuals who had the time and inclination to engage the flow? Anyway, back to the original contemplation: the levels of engagement in spiritual connection. I suppose the conclusion I have moved towards is that although the ultimate end may be a wonderful thing, the steps in between are equally wonderful. It is a bit frightening to think of blasting through to super-consciousness without stopping to enjoy the movement towards super-consciousness. To attain super-consciousness is to die the ultimate death: to die, but remain living. To realize the sham of human life? The quote that comes to mind is: "We are not humans having a spiritual experience, rather, spirits having a human experience." (-YB, I believe.) Well, that would be a comfort... and a clue to how to continue to go on once you have realized the sham. Essentially, you're back to enjoying the energy and light... albeit from a different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 [> I think I can understand, definitely intellectually, > if not otherwise, what > you are describing. This idea has been percolating > in me since you broadcast > your paper on the purpose of spiritual practice. > What I have come to wonder > about in the past few days is: how the path one > takes to the ultimate end > may necessarily require a period of surprise by, > focus on, and enjoyment of > the energy and light.] It really is impossible to understand intellectually what he has stated. It's something that is experiential and to intellectualize an outcome (anyway) tends to inhibit the experience :- This is true also of the Path. It works best to just experience without thinking of each pleasure/disappointment/pain or whatever as part of the road to......... Attaching ultimate goals keeps us from being aware of what's happening *right now* which is the all important moment. So here, I'd agree with you in your thinking of being in each of these moments. [ It is a bit frightening to think of blasting through > to super-consciousness > without stopping to enjoy the movement towards > super-consciousness. To > attain super-consciousness is to die the ultimate > death: to die, but remain > living. To realize the sham of human life?] There are relative truths and absolute truths. Here, in meditation, you might consider what is it that dies? Human life hopefully is perceived at some point as a blessing where Enlightenment is possible due to our ability to consciously make choices and practice our practice(s). The "sham" may be merely delusion I don't have your answers. But found the commentary interesting and hope my answers may lead to new questions! daisie Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 >It really is impossible to understand intellectually >what he has stated. It's something that is >experiential and to intellectualize an outcome >(anyway) tends to inhibit the experience :- >This is true also of the Path. It works best to just >experience without thinking of each >pleasure/disappointment/pain or whatever as part of >the road to......... >Attaching ultimate goals keeps us from being aware of >what's happening *right now* which is the all >important moment. So here, I'd agree with you in your >thinking of being in each of these moments. Understanding anything fully is a complicated, multi-layerd thing. In teaching architectural design to teenagers vs. young adults, I have found that each developmental age may "understand fully" to the best of their abilities and to the point that their life-experience allows them to understand. Abilities refer to sensual, emotional, intellectual, etc. ways of knowing. Life-experience refers to the "level" and "flavor" of world-consciousness and the student's sense of their position within that world. Life-experience, or the ability to project beyond one's life-experience (through intellect and compassion) seems to be the critical factor in determining a student's ability to profoundly respond to a given architectural problem. I see a lot of parallels between the development of sensibilities in students of architecture and students on a spiritual path. So anyway, what am I getting at? Simply that intellect and experience do not seem to be distinguishable. The two may even at times feed each other. I very respectfully offer an alternative notion to the notion that to intellectualize an outcome tends to inhibit the experience. Knowing something intellectually (as well as emotionally, sensually...) may actually enhance the overall experience... deepening it and allowing it to grow in the future. Using the intellect to understand doesn't rationalize. It synthesizes and informs a future outlook which in turn informs future action... like the ability to relax into the moment. P.S. Your use of the word "conscious" below made me contemplate the following phrases in context of the previous discussion: emotional consciousness, sensual consciousness, intellectual consciousness. Very interesting meaning. >There are relative truths and absolute truths. Here, >in meditation, you might consider what is it that >dies? >Human life hopefully is perceived at some point as a >blessing where Enlightenment is possible due to our >ability to consciously make choices and practice our >practice(s). The "sham" may be merely delusion It does seem that these notions ask for further work. >I don't have your answers. But found the commentary >interesting and hope my answers may lead to new >questions! Right on! Thanks for picking up the thread. best regards, Nina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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