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CAPS USED TO SEPARATE THE 2 WRITERS

-

Nina and John Murrell-Kisner <>

Pieter Schoonheim Samara <pietersa

Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:22 PM

Body of text I would like to forward to KY e-group

 

Hello, All.

 

I would like to share and open to the e-group a line of conversation that

has developed in an email exchange with Pieter Schoonheim Samara. The text

is below my sign-off. I would be very interested to know what others think.

 

Sat Nam.

 

Nina

=============================

ONCE YOU ISOLATE THE "SEER" THE "I" AS "I" A NEW

PERSPECTIVE WILL DAWN THAT NATURALLY DISSOLVED THE IDENTITY OF THE "I" SENSE

TO THE IMAGES AND THOUGHTS OF THE MIND. THEN YOU ABIDE IN AND AS THE SAT

NAM WITHOUT THE IDEA OF A DOER OR CAUSE OR CONDITION TO WHO YOU ARE (SAT

SIRI AKAL - ETERNAL TRUTH).

 

SOMETIMES IT SEEMS THAT WE FORGET THAT THE WHOLE

PURPOSE OF THE PRACTICE IS ONLY TO HELP FACILITATE THAT CONNECTION TO THE

TRUTH THAT ABIDES IN US, WHICH IS THE SOURCE OF ALL THE ENERGY CONSCIOUSNESS

AND SUBSTRATUM OF OUR EXISTENCE IMMANENT AND NEAR A HAND. AS LONG AS WE

RECOGNIZE THIS, THE CONNECTION AND EVOLUTION WILL BE QUICK. IF WE DO NOT,

THE PROGRESS MAY BE VERY SLOW, MUCH ENERGY AND LIGHT, BUT THERE WILL BE A

SENSE OF MISSING SOMETHING, SOMETHING FORGOTTEN. ONCE THE CONNECTION IS

MADE, THE ENERGY WE ARE WORKING ON RAISING WILL BECOME INSIGNIFICANT TO THE

FLOOD OF LIGHT AND LIFE THAT FILLS US, WHICH FILLS US EVEN NOW, BUT FOR THE

FOCUS OF ATTENTION OF THE LIGHT OF THE "I" SENSE INTO THOUGHTS AND IMAGES

AND IMPRESSIONS THAT HAS US TEMPORARILY FORGETTING OUR SAT NAM.

 

I think I can understand, definitely intellectually, if not otherwise, what

you are describing. This idea has been percolating in me since you broadcast

your paper on the purpose of spiritual practice. What I have come to wonder

about in the past few days is: how the path one takes to the ultimate end

may necessarily require a period of surprise by, focus on, and enjoyment of

the energy and light. The energy and light may certainly serve the purpose

of awakening a person... letting them know to look. It seems there could be

many intensities and rhythms to connecting to a greater Sense... and that

these intensities and rhythms will develop as the person grows in a

spiritual sense.

 

It seems that our bodies are designed to want to do yoga and to naturally

connect with a greater Sense. During the winter, when I was having an

extreme low-point, -not knowing- what the energy fluctuations meant, where

they were coming from, etc., I found that I could -intuitively- do yoga

postures: that by allowing my mind to open to a channel showing flows of

postures, I could fabricate an entire routine. The thing that really

astounded me was that I spontaneously went into postures that I had never

seen before and had in the past not even imagined I could do (like lotus

back bend, wheel pose with legs in splits, others that I don't even have

names for...). The fascinating thing for me: when I finally did research,

looking in, I believe (and I am uneducated), Patanjali's book that shows

hundreds of postures, I found the postures I had moved into. P.S. I had done

them perfectly without previous training or assistance. I just followed

where my mind was telling me to place my body.

 

This certainly isn't a unique happening. The guru for Kripalu yoga, I

forget his name, did the same thing over a period of years and developed

postures. Also, where did yoga come from originally if not from a collective

mind and consciousness... and individuals who had the time and inclination

to engage the flow?

 

Anyway, back to the original contemplation: the levels of engagement in

spiritual connection. I suppose the conclusion I have moved towards is that

although the ultimate end may be a wonderful thing, the steps in between are

equally wonderful.

 

It is a bit frightening to think of blasting through to super-consciousness

without stopping to enjoy the movement towards super-consciousness. To

attain super-consciousness is to die the ultimate death: to die, but remain

living. To realize the sham of human life? The quote that comes to mind is:

"We are not humans having a spiritual experience, rather, spirits having a

human experience." (-YB, I believe.) Well, that would be a comfort... and a

clue to how to continue to go on once you have realized the sham.

Essentially, you're back to enjoying the energy and light... albeit from a

different perspective. :)

 

 

 

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[> I think I can understand, definitely

intellectually,

> if not otherwise, what

> you are describing. This idea has been percolating

> in me since you broadcast

> your paper on the purpose of spiritual practice.

> What I have come to wonder

> about in the past few days is: how the path one

> takes to the ultimate end

> may necessarily require a period of surprise by,

> focus on, and enjoyment of

> the energy and light.]

 

It really is impossible to understand intellectually

what he has stated. It's something that is

experiential and to intellectualize an outcome

(anyway) tends to inhibit the experience :-

This is true also of the Path. It works best to just

experience without thinking of each

pleasure/disappointment/pain or whatever as part of

the road to.........

Attaching ultimate goals keeps us from being aware of

what's happening *right now* which is the all

important moment. So here, I'd agree with you in your

thinking of being in each of these moments.

 

 

[ It is a bit frightening to think of blasting through

> to super-consciousness

> without stopping to enjoy the movement towards

> super-consciousness. To

> attain super-consciousness is to die the ultimate

> death: to die, but remain

> living. To realize the sham of human life?]

 

There are relative truths and absolute truths. Here,

in meditation, you might consider what is it that

dies?

Human life hopefully is perceived at some point as a

blessing where Enlightenment is possible due to our

ability to consciously make choices and practice our

practice(s). The "sham" may be merely delusion :)

 

I don't have your answers. But found the commentary

interesting and hope my answers may lead to new

questions!

 

daisie

 

 

 

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>It really is impossible to understand intellectually

>what he has stated. It's something that is

>experiential and to intellectualize an outcome

>(anyway) tends to inhibit the experience :-

>This is true also of the Path. It works best to just

>experience without thinking of each

>pleasure/disappointment/pain or whatever as part of

>the road to.........

>Attaching ultimate goals keeps us from being aware of

>what's happening *right now* which is the all

>important moment. So here, I'd agree with you in your

>thinking of being in each of these moments.

 

Understanding anything fully is a complicated, multi-layerd thing. In

teaching architectural design to teenagers vs. young adults, I have found

that each developmental age may "understand fully" to the best of their

abilities and to the point that their life-experience allows them to

understand. Abilities refer to sensual, emotional, intellectual, etc. ways

of knowing. Life-experience refers to the "level" and "flavor" of

world-consciousness and the student's sense of their position within that

world. Life-experience, or the ability to project beyond one's

life-experience (through intellect and compassion) seems to be the critical

factor in determining a student's ability to profoundly respond to a given

architectural problem. I see a lot of parallels between the development of

sensibilities in students of architecture and students on a spiritual path.

 

So anyway, what am I getting at? ;) Simply that intellect and experience do

not seem to be distinguishable. The two may even at times feed each other.

I very respectfully offer an alternative notion to the notion that to

intellectualize an outcome tends to inhibit the experience. :) Knowing

something intellectually (as well as emotionally, sensually...) may

actually enhance the overall experience... deepening it and allowing it to

grow in the future. Using the intellect to understand doesn't rationalize.

It synthesizes and informs a future outlook which in turn informs future

action... like the ability to relax into the moment.

 

P.S. Your use of the word "conscious" below made me contemplate the

following phrases in context of the previous discussion: emotional

consciousness, sensual consciousness, intellectual consciousness. Very

interesting meaning.

 

>There are relative truths and absolute truths. Here,

>in meditation, you might consider what is it that

>dies?

>Human life hopefully is perceived at some point as a

>blessing where Enlightenment is possible due to our

>ability to consciously make choices and practice our

>practice(s). The "sham" may be merely delusion :)

 

It does seem that these notions ask for further work.

 

>I don't have your answers. But found the commentary

>interesting and hope my answers may lead to new

>questions!

 

Right on! Thanks for picking up the thread.

 

best regards,

Nina

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