Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 I wonder if anyone can explain to me the basic differences in the yoga traditions. I have been doing KY for almost 7 years and am in the middle of my 3rd year teaching. However, I have never done a different form of yoga, other than KY. My personal feeling from what I have read in Yoga Journal and other like magazines and books, is that KY is more personal, more spiritual. I am seriously considering trying other traditions for a more varied view that I can teach to my students. Any comments? Susan Devta Kaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Susan, I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my opinion is very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha. I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in my class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the asanas. As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24 years before my KY teacher training. Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how the energy moved through the body, and what it was doing. I hope this helps, Many Blessings, Siri Ram K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Susan Devta Kaur, The goal of all yogas is to connect body, mind and spirit, and since that's the case, they are all considered a personal and spiritual experience. My own personal experience in doing other yogas is that the main focus is on the asana (meaning, is my body flexible enough to do it, and how long can I hold it). In KY, you're encouraged to keep your eyes closed and not focus on the person next to you or worry about how well you're doing in an asana....just do it! Just feel the experience. Yoga means "union"....not just uniting body, mind and spirit but also being in union with other yogas. If trying out other yogas is your desire, then go for it. Sat Nam Sheila B. - <DevtaKaur1 <Kundaliniyoga> Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:13 AM Re: yoga tradition differences > I wonder if anyone can explain to me the basic differences in the yoga > traditions. I have been doing KY for almost 7 years and am in the middle of > my 3rd year teaching. However, I have never done a different form of yoga, > other than KY. My personal feeling from what I have read in Yoga Journal and > other like magazines and books, is that KY is more personal, more spiritual. > I am seriously considering trying other traditions for a more varied view > that I can teach to my students. Any comments? > Susan Devta Kaur > > > > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > - Yogi Bhajan > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > Kundaliniyoga- > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Devta Kaur: I practiced hatha yoga for many years before getting started in KY, and I would say that (for me) KY is much (much much) faster, more spiritual, more intense, more varied, and more fun. Working with other traditions is a great way to expand our knowledge, and to work on things in a different way, but I would note that we are asked (in teacher training, and personally by YB) not to mix different traditions in our classes, as this dilutes the individual traditions and confuses students who wish to practice one. Learning and teaching different paths is wonderful, if that is what you wish to do - for example, YB is a master of both KY and hatha yoga, although he has chosen to focus on the teaching of KY. All blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Sadhant, The hatha yoga I am talking about has almost nothing to do with the hatha taught today in America. If you read the life story of Krishnamacharia, that is the yoga I am talking about. He taught all of the same things that Yogi Bhajan teaches. (mantra, breathing, yoga sutras, etc...) The yogis that brought yoga to America like Paramahansa Yogananda put a Christian spin on it, so that Americans would accept it. (It's amazing how many people today still believe yoga is a religion.) I believe it's time to bring back traditional yoga, not just the yoga that has been reduced to mere technique. Blessings Siri Ram K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Sadhant, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Krishnamacharia taught the same krias. I was talking about spiritual truth and spirituality. The book is called Yoga and the living tradition of Krishnamacharia. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I think you almost have to go back 100 years to get the true spiritual Hatha yoga (breathing, mantra etc.) I agree that most Hatha classes now leave the spiritual part out. Siri Ram K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Siri Ram Kaur & friends: > very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha. I agree that the correct posture that hatha stresses is important, and am glad to see KY becoming more exacting about posture, but I do question the idea that all yogas come from hatha. I think it is more correct to say that hatha yoga, like all modern yogic paths, derive from a much older yoga form (or forms) that may or may not be extant today. For example, the Prabhavananda & Isherwood commentary on the yoga sutras of Patanjali states: "Hatha yoga was designed to prepare the aspirant for spiritual experience by perfecting the body; but it has been condemned by spiritual teachers because it tends, in practice, to concentrate the mind upon the body itself" (#34, Yoga and its aims). I infer from this that hatha is a relatively late development in comparison to the yoga that Patanjali comments on. Also, the bulk of the yoga sutras are focused on practices such as mantra, pranayama, and so forth, that are rarely even mentioned, let alone practiced, in the hatha yoga I have studied - although, again, from the same commentary: "In the West, it (hatha yoga) is to be found in a completely degenerated form", so perhaps it is only the hatha I have studied here. Nevertheless, "asana", which is the main focus of hatha yoga (as I know it), is only 1 of the 8 aspects of the 8-fold path of yoga, and I would argue that hatha yoga, like KY, or karma yoga or ashtanga or bhakti yoga or, indeed, any of the paths that one might follow today, are modern paths that have been developed and systematized in more recent times. Some (and I include KY in this) work toward including all aspects of the 8-fold path, and others, like mantra yoga or modern (Western) hatha, at least as I know it, do not, as they tend to focus in on a particular aspect of the larger practice of yoga. BTW, just as a point of interest, I have had students come to my class who have travelled in India and learned yoga there, and have mentioned that the KY we practice came closer to the yoga they learned there than any other paths they had encountered in the US. I welcome discussion and/or correction of my off-the-cuff analysis. Love & blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Dear Siri Ram: > taught today in America. If you read the life story of >Krishnamacharia, that Could you provide a specific book reference? I did a little web searching, and get a lot of references to viniyoga and T.K.V. Desikachar (his son, yes?), but haven't found a a book that says it gives his life story. Am I looking at the right person? > is the yoga I am talking about. He taught all of the same things One thing I don't see in books like "The Heart of Yoga", by Desikachar, which I've looked at briefly, is any reference to kriyas in the sense that YB teaches - in fact, even the kriya yoga that I am (somewhat) familiar with (Goswami Kriyananda) doesn't teach these sorts of kriyas, although it does include all the other aspects of classical yoga, I think. Could you comment on that topic and other differences that you see between the more traditional hatha that you refer to and KY? Love & blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Sadhant, I gave you the wrong name to the book. It's called Health, Healing and beyond by: Desikichar (sp?) Siri Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2001 Report Share Posted March 22, 2001 Does anyone know of KY instructors in the Minneapolis/St Paul MN area? Thanks, Barb maheryogini wrote: > Dear Susan, > I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my opinion is > very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha. > > I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in my > class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the asanas. > As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha > Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24 years > before my KY teacher training. > > Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how the > energy moved through the body, and what it was doing. > > I hope this helps, > Many Blessings, > Siri Ram K. > > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > - Yogi Bhajan > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > Kundaliniyoga- > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. > > > Your use of is subject to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 could you explain to me why yoga isnt a religion and why many people think it is? sat nam kristin - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Dear Siri Ram: > back 100 years to get the true spiritual Hatha yoga (breathing, Thanks for passing that (corrected) book title along. I think there is a fair amount of confusion about the terminology of the different types of yoga, no doubt because plenty of it has been kept secret, and also because different yogic paths have pursued different objectives over time, and adopted different names, and have been popularized by particular teachers, etc. Certainly the books I have read which discuss the history of yoga don't show much agreement or consistency, except in the broadest sense and with the oldest of ideas - I can't help wondering how much of this was actually deliberate, in keeping with the idea that yoga was kept secret so that only the highly motivated would seek out a teacher... However, if you look at older texts, like the sutras and various interpretations of them, you find references to what I think of as the classical yoga forms, such as karma yoga (right action), bhakti yoga (service & devotion), kriya-yoga (yoga of action), etc, which are, of course, thousands of years old. I haven't found hatha to be a classical delineation according to what I've read so far, and conclude from what I've read that the various forms of hatha (and kundalini, ashtanga, etc.) are families of yoga which, by the evolution through lineage and teacher and time, have expanded from one of the classical yogas (primarily, I assume, from classical kriya-yoga). BTW, I notice that the Viniyoga practitioners, which seem to be the current followers of Krishnamacharya's teachings, go out of their way to say that their yoga is not a particular form of yoga, so they also seem to be trying to dump the association with hatha yoga Again, I welcome correction, argument, or discussion of this stuff - I enjoy history, and since I love yoga, I naturally love the history of yoga. Just can't get much clear data - which generally characterizes all history anyway All blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 Sat Nam Kristin: > could you explain to me why yoga isnt a religion and why many >people think it is? A simple answer to the first question is that religions are belief systems (they tell you what to believe), and yoga is not (a basic yogic teaching is that you should believe only what you experience for yourself). There is, of course, plenty of yogic philosophy, which one can learn about or not, as we prefer, but the philosophy is not yoga, the practices are, and they speak for themselves. As to the second, a simple answer is that many people (particularly in Western countries) have trouble distinguishing between religion and spiritual practices, assuming that anything that is spiritual must involve beliefs. Also, yoga has always had an intertwined relationship with various religions in different countries - SpiritWeb has an interesting discussion of this topic (though it comes from a different yogic path) - try this link: http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/laya-yoga.html Love & blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2001 Report Share Posted March 25, 2001 Dear Sadhant: I agree with you about the terminology of the different types of Yoga. When I think of Hatha Yoga I think about holding a sustained pose, and mentally focusing on the pose and breath. I don't necessarily think of ashtanga, etc. If you can read the book and let me know what you think. I am going to reread it myself (it has been a while since I read it). Blessings, Siri Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 Alinement and positions are very inportant but I have been taught that Hatha Yoga is only one branch of Kundalini Yoga which is the mother of all the yoga's. The yoga that all the others have came from. I also did Hatha first but there is nothing like taking KY from a true instructor. I cried at my first class 9 years ago knowing that I was home. Sandy (Yogi Jiwan Kaur) PS: forgive me if I step on anyone's toes; that was not my intent. I am here only to grow and learn also. I also am a KY Instructor and you can find an instructor in your teachers directory thru: yogibhajan.com/index.html I am sure that there is a more direct route but this will give you access then look for teachers index - "Barbara Jean Phelps" <bjp <Kundaliniyoga> Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:33 PM Re: yoga tradition differences > Does anyone know of KY instructors in the Minneapolis/St Paul MN area? > Thanks, > Barb > > maheryogini wrote: > > > Dear Susan, > > I am also a KY teacher, I also teach Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga in my opinion is > > very important, because all of the Yogas came from Hatha. > > > > I have found through my training in KY that all of the other students in my > > class were in a panic because they didn't know how to properly do the asanas. > > As a result I hear that the new courses stress proper alignment. (Hatha > > Yoga.) I was very fortunate because I had been doing Hatha for about 24 years > > before my KY teacher training. > > > > Because of my background in Hatha it was easier for me to understand how the > > energy moved through the body, and what it was doing. > > > > I hope this helps, > > Many Blessings, > > Siri Ram K. > > > > > > > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > > - Yogi Bhajan > > > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > > Kundaliniyoga- > > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. > > > > > > Your use of is subject to > > > > "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" > - Yogi Bhajan > > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to > Kundaliniyoga- > NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! > WEB SITE: kundalini yoga > > KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from > kundalini yogaclasses.html > > Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. > > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 This issue raises a question for me. I am a KY instructor, and was taught in teacher training that we should not alter sets (except to modify times and positions to adapt to student abilities) or to create sets. We have a teacher here who does just that, and it is disturbing to me. I appreciate your comment as it is a good explanation of why we shouldn't do that. I do have another question. It seems that there are certain teachers of long experience who do create sets. I think, e.g., Gururattan's manuals carry some sets with her name, even though most sets are identified right down to the date Yogi Bhajan taught them. At what point does a teacher become accomplished enough to do this? Can you elaboarate on why it is important for the average teacher not to inject their own creative influences into the teaching? Many thanks, sukhmani kaur - Sadhant Singh Kundaliniyoga Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:57 AM Re: yoga tradition differences Dear Devta Kaur: I practiced hatha yoga for many years before getting started in KY, and I would say that (for me) KY is much (much much) faster, more spiritual, more intense, more varied, and more fun. Working with other traditions is a great way to expand our knowledge, and to work on things in a different way, but I would note that we are asked (in teacher training, and personally by YB) not to mix different traditions in our classes, as this dilutes the individual traditions and confuses students who wish to practice one. Learning and teaching different paths is wonderful, if that is what you wish to do - for example, YB is a master of both KY and hatha yoga, although he has chosen to focus on the teaching of KY. All blessings, Sadhant Sponsor "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" - Yogi Bhajan You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to Kundaliniyoga- NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! WEB SITE: kundalini yoga KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from kundalini yogaclasses.html Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Dear Sukhmani Kaur: > This issue raises a question for me. I am a KY instructor, and was >taught in teacher training that we should not alter sets (except to >modify times and positions to adapt to student abilities) or to >create sets. We have a teacher here who does just that, and it is >disturbing to me. I appreciate your comment as it is a good >explanation of why we shouldn't do that. I do have another >question. It seems that there are certain teachers of long >experience who do create sets. I think, e.g., Gururattan's manuals >carry some sets with her name, even though most sets are identified >right down to the date Yogi Bhajan taught them. At what point does >a teacher become accomplished enough to do this? Can you elaboarate >on why it is important for the average teacher not to inject their >own creative influences into the teaching? Certainly, nobody has ever really spoken on this point to me, but my guess would be that only a genuine master (5th stage of development, or Sat Pad) of yoga is accomplished enough to create sets for others to practice. In other words, I don't think this is a question of experience per se, or amount of time spent in practice, but of spiritual development, which is something objective enough to be apparent to another person at that level of development (or higher). I am basing this thinking on descriptions of the actual source of kriyas, which is literally the spontaneous movement of the body through sequences of asanas (and mudras, bhands, pranayam, etc.) which occurs in very advanced yoga practitioners (this is the actual meaning of the word kriya). I would assume, however, that even at this stage, one may not be accomplished enough to determine which of one's own personal kriyas are suitable for sharing with students - I'd assume that this requires mastery, which is rather rare, and I suspect that only a master has the necessary insight to understand all the potential ramifications that practicing a given kriya would have on anyone & everyone. I have told this story before (one shared with me by a lady who lives in the Espanola ashram), but perhaps it bears repeating in this context: Yogi Bhajan was sitting with a group of people (I believe in a restaurant in NYC), and at one point he suddenly closed his eyes and "went away" for a little while. When he returned, somebody asked him about this, and he said that a teacher in LA had left a posture out of a kriya he was teaching, and that he needed to adjust the class to make up for it. One of the people at the table taught at the LA ashram, and later on was talking to a friend of hers who had been teaching that day. She asked him if he was teaching at that time, and when he said that he was, she asked him if he'd left out a posture. He was rather amazed at this, and admitted his mistake. This is what a master is and what a master can do. I doubt that anybody else should provide kriyas for students... Love & blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Sat Nam, we should not alter sets (except to modify times and positions to adapt to student abilities) or to create sets. The other exception is that you can add warm ups before teaching a set to prepare students for the set or kriya. Sat nam, Gururattan Kaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 thank you for your responses. the explanation of a master as developer of kriyas was especially helpfu. i'd like to clarify my question a little. If, for example, I use a set from Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I using a set originally taught by Yogi Bhajan? This is what is unclear to me. I know YB has taught literally hundreds of sets and, fortunately, many people took excellent notes and converted them to a form others could use. what I'm wondering is, were all the KY sets we now use originally taught by him? sukhmani - Gururattan K.Khalsa Kundaliniyoga Monday, April 02, 2001 12:35 PM Re: Re: yoga tradition differences Sat Nam, we should not alter sets (except to modify times and positions to adapt to student abilities) or to create sets. The other exception is that you can add warm ups before teaching a set to prepare students for the set or kriya. Sat nam, Gururattan Kaur Sponsor Click for Details "OUR DESTINY IS TO BE HAPPY" - Yogi Bhajan You can UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at the eGroups Member Center (My Groups), or send mail to Kundaliniyoga- NO UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS TO THE LIST PLEASE! WEB SITE: kundalini yoga KUNDALINI YOGA ON-LINE TRAINING. Details from kundalini yogaclasses.html Sponsored by YOGA TECHNOLOGY - Practical books on Kundalini Yoga, Meditation, Chakras, Womens' Empowerment. Meditation & Mantra CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Dear Sukhmani: > i'd like to clarify my question a little. If, for example, I use >a set from Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I using a set >originally taught by Yogi Bhajan? This is what is unclear to me. I >know YB has taught literally hundreds of sets and, fortunately, >many people took excellent notes and converted them to a form others >could use. what I'm wondering is, were all the KY sets we now use >originally taught by him? Originally? It depends on how you mean that. Obviously, many of the kriyas are much older than YB, because the history of many kriyas (as provided as part of the teachings) go back hundreds or even thousands of years. If you are asking if any students of YB have created their own kriyas, then I do not know the answer to that, but I have never seen an attribution that indicated otherwise. Many blessings, Sadhant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 In a message dated 04/03/2001 4:20:53 PM W. Europe Daylight Time, kundaliniyoga writes: > If you are asking if any students of YB have created their own > kriyas, then I do not know the answer to that, but I have never seen > an attribution that indicated otherwise. > > Many blessings, > Sadhant > The most respected German KY author/teacher says clearly that the exercises he presents were all taught by YB, but that the sets are of his own creation. The sets are designed to affect of Chinese meridians, and there is some astrology thrown in as well. Ardas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2001 Report Share Posted April 3, 2001 Sat Nam, If, for example, I use a set from Ravi Singh's Seven Days, Seven Rays, am I using a set originally taught by Yogi Bhajan? As far as I know these are YB sets. what I'm wondering is, were all the KY sets we now use originally taught by him? A few of the sets in my manuals were "made up" by Gurucharan Singh who has been blessed by YB to be the channel for KY. He might have learned them from YB but I got them from classes I took from him. The Green energy set is one. No one questions anything Gurucharan teaches, not even YB. In fact YB tells us to ask GCS. Sat Nam, Gururattan Kaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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